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Episode 113: Victory or Death (Patreon)

Published:
2024-05-01 05:38:50
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

In the Spring of 1808, Napoleon said he considered Spain conquered. That summer, Spanish forces dealt France its first major battlefield defeat in nearly a decade. How had Spain managed this stunning reversal?

Comments

Connor Martin

As I was listening to this, I realized Spain is undergoing a revolution. It sounds a lot like the early days of the Spanish Republic in their civil war in 1936 (though that was the common people doing the revolution instead of the nobility). I think this revolution started with the fall of Godoy. When would you say this revolution begins?

Francisco Javier Herranz Trillo

First of all I want to congratulate you for the podcast. It's a wonderful way to have a very comprehensive idea of all the period. I live 10km away of Bailén and always I was amazed of fighting a major battle on July. It's very hot and dry. There's only few seasonal streams (arroyos) and the hills are step and full of olive trees orchards. A lot of towns in Spain are in heights and the water supply relied on wells. About the Juntas and Municipality governments (Ayuntamientos in Spanish) declaring war on France there's a lot of examples. One that it's particularly funny is the one of the village of Huescar (Granada, Andalusia, southeast Spain) that issue the declaration of war to Denmark because the Spanish Army of Marques de la Romana was attacked by Danish in 1809. In 1980 one official of Huescar discovered the declaration of war and started the cease fire and peace conversation with the Danish Consul in Spain. The peace was signed a year after with a big party for the bloodless war. There's even a documentary https://youtu.be/TRiSN8JnYgg?si=JjR_ceHNjoEqNhq0 The French invasion was a terrible catastrophe in every aspect for Spain. I'm from Úbeda (very close to Bailén either and besides Baeza World Heritage Cities for their Rennaissance architecture) were a lot of art was pillaged or simply burn in the upheaval of the War of Independence (Peninsular War is the British name). Now a what if. Do you think that if Napoleon had refrain the hastiness on conquer Spain right after Godoy's fall and wait until Ferdinand traits were obvious to all Spaniards the things would go totally different?

Pete Fenelon

Oh thank goodness I don't have to listen to more ads about body odor and tampons every episode. Worth every dollar.

Steele Partridge

This was a fantastic episode, as always. Really clear narrative despite the jumping around geographically. Took me back to my Spanish History courses in University. Can’t wait for next month, thanks for the excellent work!

ageofnapoleon
>>136728002

Very interesting comment, thank you for sharing! I looked at a lot of photos of the area around Bailén when I was writing this episode and I was struck by how much it looks like the American Southwest, where my family is from. (We also use the word "arroyo," Spain's influence is everywhere!) Yes, I think everything would likely have been different if Napoleon had waited, or even modified his plans slightly. He chose about the worst possible way to intervene in Spain. Part of what makes this war so tragic is that it could have been avoided so easily.

Philipp Kohl

Really a fantastic episode 😀. Thank you for doing this great job.

Tristan Bavol

Hey check it out! Today is Dos de Mayo.

Francisco Javier Herranz Trillo
>>136728002

I'll try to take some pictures this 19th of July to give an idea of how it was fighting there. The reenactment of the battle is made in October or November to avoid heatstrokes on reenactors. If somebody is interested I can send some pictures. Also note that the pass for all Dupont's Army from Andalusia to central Spain plain of La Mancha (where Don Quixote rode) is called Despeñaperros (loosely sound in Spanish as Dog Falling Cliffs) and it was still a terrible pass with only a two way highway and a one railway until 20 years ago. The terrain in high Guadalquivir drain basin is a little more verdant but from 60km to Southeast Bailén until the very coast there's also badlands due the lack of rain and clay soil. Some of the spaghetti Westerns were filmed there due the resemblance.

Julian Weber

Another great episode! During the course of the Peninsular narrative would you consider talking about one or both of the following questions in your Dispatches? 1. What was happening with the Spanish colonies during the war? Why didn’t they already declare independence from their European overlord in this moment of weakness and collapse of a central government capable of administering the colonies? Or am I wrong in that assumption and even though there was war in Iberia the grip on the colonies was either still working or the colonies didn’t see a benefit (yet) from declaring independence? 2. I read a lot about 1813 and in the building up and during the early phases several factions still exist in Prussia. One dividing topic is whether or not nationalistic sentiment should be used and if those aroused people fighting for a “German” cause in a “Guerilla-like” fashion would be helpful or couldn’t be trusted. How was the general view of the other European powers during the Iberian war? Were they happy so long as Napoleonic France was weakened or was there concerns amongst the “Conservative” anti-republican factions? Thanks for all your great content!!

ageofnapoleon
>>136896263

Very good questions, I will addressing both of them during the regular episodes. I actually already have a rough sketch of what I'm going to say on both of these topics.

Julian Weber
>>136896263

That’s great. I shall look forward to listening to those narrative episodes even more then 😊

Peter O'Connor

The description of the Battle of Bailén was brilliant - very vivid, gripping, but easy to follow what was happening. Well done!

Jeff Gillooly

This was an amazing episode. As one who is obsessed with organizational theory, this is truly a case study on something that should succeed but organizational inadequacies, happenstance, and outside forces allowed something to happen that under normal circumstances would never had occurred. Brilliantly laid out and masterfully narrated. Well done!

AnaR737

Wonderful episode. Listened to it twice. This is such an important part of the whole Napoleonic era. It is not as sexy as the invasion of Russia, sure, but for Latin America it was the momentous event in Europe that gave the colonies an opening to declare independence. By the time Spain gots its bearings back, it was too late. There is a very interesting novel by Spanish writer Arturo Perez Reverte. I am not sure of the name in English but in Spanish it is called: Un dia de colera, something like "A Day of Fury". It narrates the events of May 2 without a single perspective. I am sure it would be a good read for listeners of this podcast.

AnaR737
>>136896263

I am from Argentina, and in our history manuals we are taught that when Ferdinand was so unceremoniously replaced by Joe Bottle, the local patriots saw an opening to declare themselves loyal to the "true" Spanish monarch but independent from this usurper. Of course, it was a conceit, but it worked. The colonies went their own way, very messily, but they did. At least in the far south of South America, the process started in 1810 and dragged on into the 1820's, but it was a done deal.

ageofnapoleon
>>137274236

Looks like it's not out in English unfortunately. I have been meaning to read one of his books, I loved the movie 'Alatriste.'

AnaR737
>>137274236

The books are a joy to read. The movie was beautifully made, but it condensed so many things that I am rooting for a full length series to make them justice. Bit the cinematography of the movie was amazing, and that last scene with the battle of Rocroi…wow!

Gerard De La Rue

Hi Everett - that was a fantastic episode. Thank you. I have a question that is probably more of an aside to the main narrative. Is there any evidence or knowledge of English involvement in the organisation of the Spanish resistance? The speed with which it sprung up seems very convenient for the English and I know from earlier there is suspected English involvement in the assassination of Paul I in Russia. Thanks Gerard

Guillem UB
>>137274236

I have the book, thank you for the recommendation! And thank you Everett for this fantastic coverage of the war in Spain, as a Spanish listener I am learning many things from our own history!

Joaquin

Such a good episode! With that tease about San Martin I wonder if you’ll do a detour and cover his campaigns back in South America and Argentina’s independence! 👀