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Lately, as the Allies increase their aerial campaign over Germany, and famine results from Allied nation‘s policy in Iran, and British Policy in India, I (Spartacus) have taken more, and more flak from parts of the community. I’ve even been accused of being an Nazi apologist. For not acknowledging enough that the Allies were beyond reproach because in the end the Axis were worse, and the Allies defeated them. I’ve been told I should be ashamed of myself by reporting in such a way that there is a moral equivalence.


Needless to say I vehemently disagree. The nihilists among us might say that there was no good side in this war, only a less evil side. With that too I disagree. There was a good side in this war, it just doesn’t divide in sharp lines of national borders. The good side in this war was Humanity, and those who stood up without compromise for the values that later became enshrined in the Universal Declararion of Human Rights. They were present among all belligerents, but to a much larger degree among the political leaders and officers of the United Nations Alliance than the sane group in the Axis Camp. You might even say, without being wrong, that for all practical purposes, goodness was altogether absent in Axis leadership.


When you add up the grand total of misery by war’s end by tallying how many dead each side caused through illegal, or at least immoral actions and policy, that is also quite clear. The Axis side caused tens of millions of dead that way, while the Allied “wrongful dead” toll is in single digit millions. But it’s still millions. When seen playing out like this week, by week it becomes clearer what that means. Moreover, in weeks like the ones we’re in right now it will by force be so that “the good side” caused more suffering in that given week. Right now the German Nazi mass murders are in a lull, and the Japanese are not busy with any of their horrific reprisal campaigns, while the Allies are causing more dead.


So if you dive into one of our War Against Humanity episodes in late July 1943, without knowing the rest of the series it might very well look like I’m on the wrong side of history. That’s both a strength and a weakness of our chronological format. The weakness is that you must look at all of it to get a clear picture of what the balance of good and evil is. The strength is that it exposes the effects as they were, showing us the transgressions of anyone and everyone. Thus, becomes the actors in this great drama what all humans are; complex beings of light and shade, with faults, and virtues alike. From that we can learn more than presenting them as cardboard figures of good and evil. By that we can learn both from their virtues and faults. What better way to remember them, and to honor them could there be?

Files

Hamburg’s Citizen’s Burnt Alive - WAH 071 - July 31, 1943

In Italy the Fascists fall from power in a peaceful coup, while in Germany the RAF and USAAF bring down a rain of fire of biblical proportions in Operation Gomorrah, launching the Firestorm of Hamburg. Join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/TimeGhostHistory Or join the TimeGhost Army directly at: https://timeghost.tv/signup/ Check out our TimeGhost History YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/timeghost Between 2 Wars: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrG5J-K5AYAU1R-HeWSfY2D1jy_sEssNG Follow WW2 Day by Day on Instagram: @ww2_day_by_day Follow TimeGhost History on Instagram: @timeghosthistory Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TimeGhostHistory/ Hosted by: Spartacus Olsson Director: Astrid Deinhard Producers: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson Executive Producers: Astrid Deinhard, Indy Neidell, Spartacus Olsson Creative Producer: Marek Kamiński Community Management: Ian Sowden Written by: Spartacus Olsson and Joram Appel Research by: Joram Appel and Spartacus Olsson Map animations by: Daniel Weiss Map research by: Sietse Kenter Edited by: Iryna Dulka Artwork and color grading by: Mikołaj Uchman Sound design by: Marek Kamiński Colorizations by: Mikołaj Uchman Daniel Weiss Julius Jääskeläinen - https://www.facebook.com/JJcolorization/ Source literature list: http://bit.ly/WW2sources Archive footage: Screenocean/Reuters - https://www.screenocean.com Image sources: IWM: C 3918, HU 63075, Q 65299, C 3457, MH 27519, CL3400, MH 24762 Haran at German Wikipedia Keystone-Mast Collection, UCR-California Museum of Photography, University of California, Riverside Garyounis University, " The Martyr Omar al-Mukhtar Festival: Catalogue of Exhibition" Wellcome Collection Soundtracks from Epidemic Sound: Ominous - Philip Ayers Nighttime - Farrell Wooten Break Free - Fabien Tell On the Edge of Change - Brightarm Orchestra Endlessness - Flouw Rainy Landscapes - Farrell Wooten Duels - Farrell Wooten It's Not a Game - Philip Ayers The Beast - Dream Cave Firebreak - Edward Karl Hanson How the Rain Hits - Miles Avida A TimeGhost chronological documentary produced by OnLion Entertainment GmbH.

Comments

Dickson Phua

It is inevitably not easy to present history at times since sometimes there is no clear cut right or wrong, or black and white. So just continue to do your best with the TimeGhost Army's support behind you, Sparty.

Fisherman’s Fencer

Gohmorra…dang, Bomber Harris really thought his names out, didn’t he?

Timeghost

A thought provoking episode depicting unimaginable horrors. I have to admit that I reluctantly belong to the "vengeful pragmatist" camp. The fact remains, the German people were complicit with Hitler. Yes, many innocents suffered in cities such as Hamburg, but nothing compares to actions of the likes of Joseph Mengele.

Jack Doyle

Though I can see some rationale to that argument. I think it depends on a level of detachment. Certainly the motives were different, Bomber Harris wanted to destroy cities to deprieve Germany of resources if the people had abandoned the cities it would of made little difference to him. Yet despite arguments about the responsibility of citizens to overthrow evil governments, or that in a total war industrial workers like merchant seamen are part of the war effort, children still died, there entire potential, a world entire lost. That still is a tragedy. The other point is can anyone from the west condemn Mengele or any Axis scientist? as the West was all too happy to use their research and in some cases the scientists themselves to help build the modern world. Everytime you use your smartphone or anything that relies space technology, you are using something that has some of its origin in nazi concentration camps.

Timeghost

Mr. Doyle, You make a valid and very painful point.

Louis Burke

I'm fully behind this approach. This isn't a game of football it's war! It is ugly through and through.

Christoph Sonder

Gomorrah. Several family members of me witnessed it or even survived it. My office is in Hammerbrook. I once saw pre war pictures of that place and was barely able to recognize it- just because of the shape of the canal walls there… There are some stepstones for nazi victims where their house used to be. Now there’s a walkway…

Jack Doyle

This reminds me of a discussion I was having with an American colleagues around proportionate responses. They suggested the west constantly restrains itself nowadays and that invites further attacks. They felt it was the high intensity bombing of Japan and Germany that broke spirits of the people and ensure that despite extensive plans there was no organised resistance to occupation, and it also made them so malleable to being reshaped as democracies. Though the instinct to vengence is human, I felt proportionate responses was all the west could do, or else things just risk being worse. Its how we rise above. I highlighted that I felt it would have done little good if the UK had bombed mainland Argentina during the Falklands. However its hard to argue the west failed in Iraq and Afghanistan at creating stable democracies.

Omar

It is sad that we've become so used to the new age type of news, where we just get propaganda indoctrination by the side "reporting" their carefully planned agenda, that we feel threatened and offended by impartial reporting. The real job of news and historians is to report what happened with a clear and objective view, not what you wished or thought happened. It was a war for a way of life to survive and lots of sacrifices were made, some can be considered nothing but evil and every side participated in some way or form. I congratulate you Spartacus and your team for the humongous quest you've embraced with this project. Thank you for your great service.

TheDecksRanRed

In the course of things a few of your comments have rubbed me the wrong way. For that I admire you Spartacus, for your purpose here is not to get along. You have my admiration for taking on such an immense project in an effort to show what actually happened. The search for the truth has never been easy.

Jonathan Frye

Please keep up the good work. If you were to focus on the evil axis and not present all the evil regardless of “sides” then that would tacitly approve of allied crimes and failed strategies like firestorming civilians. Murdering the innocent is always wrong no matter what reasoning is used to justify it. Please keep up the good work.

Simon Taylor

Well said Sparty! The danger with painting the Allies as the complete "Good Guys" results in a sort of messianic justification for all forms of violence. "Our cause is just therefore anything action we do is just" - this line of thinking can lead to unspeakable horrors. As long as the final tally of evils is less than the "Bad Guys" then everything is justified.

acmariner99

I need coffee, I read that as Operation Gonorrhea.

Rafael Gutierrez

I fully support Spartacus. His presentations spare no horror, but leave no doubt as to the monstruosity of the nazi regime and actions. A nazi victory would have entailed untold misery and death across Europe and beyond. An Allied victory, as it came, was by far preferable. Moral judgements have to be filtered against that reality.

Rafael Gutierrez

I happened to know a German survivor of the Hamburg bombings. He was 11-12 at the time and was sent to his grandparents' home in the outskirts when bombings began. After the bombings, he found his entire neighborhood destroyed. He never knew what had happened to his parents, they just vanished. For weeks they left notes on the ruins saying "Hi, I am so-and-so and will return here every day at XX hours" until they lost any hope. A tough experience for a young boy. He never forgot and paid a heavy prize, an unhappy life. But that's another story.

JH

I think Spartacus has delivered some of the most even handed nuanced and insightful historyography ever on these events keep it up sir

Eleanor

For a while watching these episodes I feel I was becoming numb at the atrocities being covered and I could cope... but this episode though made me cry. A straw breaking the camel back? Or is this a new level of horror? By 43 the level of hate generated in the allies eyes to justify their retribution must have been overwhelming. With what is going on now in the Ukraine it’s as if we haven’t learned anything and are powerless to stop power crazed politicians playing with innocent peoples lives everywhere… Well done team if only been able to cover this every week…

Max Kohnke

Sparty, the truth is often a bitter pill and people with firmly held national self images do not like having those images challenged. From what I have seen you have made a great effort to tell the naked and often ugly truth without tainting it. Do not be put off by those who would kill the messenger. Good guys do bad things, bad guys can do good things. People and history are complicated and can be nuanced. keep up the great work.

Matthew Stanchfield

The question is asked, and you should answer... What would you have done, given the knowledge and technology of the time? Our comfortable position of peace (for us) and hindsight allows absolutes that are not available to the people acting in the moment.

J Vos

Sending you a virtual hug, Spartacus. I 100% agree with what you wrote here. This WAH series you are making is heartbreaking, and must be so difficult to continue with week after week. To hear that you get these kind of accusations makes me sad. Luckily, from the comments I read here so far, there are also a lot of people who think like you and the team. You have our support all the way through, even though it is virtual. Your work is important, lest we never forget. I hope you and the team can find the strength to continue, and will remember that you're not alone.

Mike DeFilippo

Wow what an episode. I wish more people watched shows like this. Maybe we'd have less war and killing today.

D G Rossiter

Spartacus has several times explained that (1) the raids targeting civilians barely affected war production, (2) in a totalitarian state, public opinion/morale has no chance of affecting war aims, and that is especially true with Hitler and his fellow fanatics, (3) morale in Britain was in fact improved (more desire to continue the war) after German bombings, so why would it be different in Germany, (4) the loss in men and machines was very high, these same men and machines that could have been used in military operations. In this episode, the idea of bombing the Hamburg shipyards is mentioned -- that would have actual effect on the Battle of the Atlantic. The military effect of bombing civilian areas was minimal.

Albert Comellas 1970

I visited Hamburg some years ago during a bycicle trip along the Elbe from Prague to Cuxhaven. I must say I was deeply impressed by the city and the remains of the bombing. And also, and specially, by a British man running a beautiful hotel in a nearby city. His father had been one of those who had bombed the city with phosphorus. Thankful to him for sharing his family history and glad to see that German-British relationships were rebuilt after all that mutual hatred and destruction. A precious humanitarian lesson to all of us.

Don Peterson

Both the Allies and the Axis use the same old proposition: That the ends justify the means. Thus the Germans exterminate millions, engage in aggressive war, because the ends they seek justify the means used to attempt to reach the those "ends". The same can be said of the Allies.

Charles Burnham

Nobody said that this was going to be easy. That being said, our side killed a lot of Germans in Hamburg who were sympathetic to the Allied cause. Hamburg was always a Left-oriented city and the Nazis were never popular there. But....it was a major seaport and industrial center. It had to go. Sorry.

Don Peterson

On further thought, the very same use of such justification, can be said of Russia, today in Ukraine.

Tony Westbrook

Excellent. Evil in abundance from the Axis but it is correct to also tell it like it was and not how some like Harris and politicians spin it. Putin is spinning the same story to the Russians who are largely oblivious to what is happening in Ukraine. The count of dead and injured and the destruction caused by Putin's war are, unlike in WW2, shown on TV and in all media everyday Despite this there are still those you claim it to be a just war while most react in shock and horror as they are now doing to this epidode.

Ward

A certain percentage of people create a 'comic-book' world for themselves with clear primary colors, solid lines and shape and neat rectangular boxes. This is all they can manage. Meanwhile...

Dubsington

You're doing the right things, Sparty. It's impossible to be honest without accusation of bias from people who hold strong views, that's just human nature. There are worse social problems than people hating the Nazis too much.

David Shaw

Yes, but war will always involve innocents whether we like it or not. As clear cut and convenient as it would be, we can't choose exactly who to kill in other words, there will always be collateral, especially in something as chaotic as modern warfare. So while the death of children is universally a tragedy, if just say, like the nuclear bombs in Japan helped to end the war quicker, and prevent an invasion that wouldve killed even more Japanese lives, as well as American ones, the bombing is absolutely worth it. Yes, we can condemn Mengele and Axis scientists. Just because some of their atrocities ended up helping create future useful innovations, does not mean it was the only way to gain those innovations, nor does it mean we have to be ok with it.

TimeGhost

The answer has been given, not by us but by mankind, over and over again since 1899, and with even more vigor after 1945. Is been codified into laws that have been made more explicit, and detailed when people have tried to bend them. The answer is: only fight a defensive war, never attack civilians, and minimize collateral damage - even when your enemy doesn’t adhere to those standards.

Paul Liebman

Abraham argued with G-d in an effort to spare the city from destruction.

TimeGhost

I think you may have pierced through to my lacking Bible studies… it’s been a long time 😬 that’s a bit embarrassing, and shows me that even when quoting scripture, I should check my sources like I do with things secular. My deepest apologies to you, and Abraham. 😔

William M. Kohnke

"They were present among all belligerents, but to a much larger degree among the political leaders and officers of the United Nations Alliance than the sane group in the Axis Camp. " That must have been a tiny group in the Axis leadership, or was it? ;-)

David Johnson

Hey Spartacus, don't let the haters get you down. War against Humanity is a superb documentary that illuminates the trials and tribulations of the Second World War for all of humanity. There was, and still is, evil in this world. But there were, and are, those amongst us, in all countries, who strive for justice, and humanity. Keep fighting the good fight.

David Morrissey

Nobody should fear history. That is ignoring the truth. No side were angels, but there is a difference between indifference and painful choices. Stalin, Hitler. Tojo were indifferent to the human cost.

peer mankpoot

"There was a good side in this war, it just doesn’t divide in sharp lines of national borders (...) present among all belligerents, but to a much larger degree among the political leaders and officers of the United Nations Alliance than the same (sic) group in the Axis Camp. You might even say, without being wrong, that for all practical purposes, goodness was altogether absent in Axis leadership." Nailed it.

Matthew Stanchfield

Now then... At least 80,000 AA guns were deployed in Germany (Anthony Beevor) that would have been deployed on various combat fronts. What difference would that have made to the outcome of the war? That is one just one factor. Had I been Churchill (or Portal) I would have relieved Harris, but not for being inhumane- for refusal to follow orders. Again, hindsight and comfortable living allow us to make all kinds of sweeping statements that the people of the time did not have the luxrury of doing- except when they where levying judgements upon their ancestors.

William M. Kohnke

I used to be a proof reader. I can't help myself.

Velvet

Absolutely, I agree. At times I have gone back and rewatched the WAH playlist in one sitting (at this point it would need to be over a long holiday season), and what really strikes one, is the delicate balancing act that the team undertook to bring us meaningful, truthful insight into these events. When Sparty told of the way ordinary men and women got caught up in perpetrating the atrocities, instead of feeling like this was Nazi apologist, it conveyed all the more horror because being in the wrong place at the wrong time could turn an ordinary person into a monster. I can see how someone watching the odd episode here and there would not have appreciated the unique and deliberate approach that Sparty took. To Sparty and team, thank you for all your hard (and heartbreaking) work on this series. I feel personally enriched by watching this series, and even though it’s been an emotional struggle to digest it (and watch your personal pain), you have accomplished that one critical thing - I will NEVER forget, as long as I live, the stories you have told 🕯🕯🕯