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Early update for July 26, 2025 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-07-25 03:55:02
Imported:
2026-06

Content

joyce: [homosexuality] is no worse than lying!

mike: then how do you feel about lying?

joyce: I HATE IT

Files

Comments

Bronxden

Really need to get two pages a day because the suspense is killing me

Wednesday Sophia

Aw I love that "I'm your big sister" is her immediate response :)

Andrea Andrew

Jocelyn and her bisexuality are exposed.

C

Trying to protect her sister is going to end up drawing attention to her big make out with Dorothy.

Packy Anderson

See, this is how she avoids telling Sarah about what happened with Dorothy, by being all awkward about Jocelyn.

GPanda

Oh for fucks sake

el

squeeze the truth out of her, Sarah!!!!!

HenryVolt

Pick the secret that only effects you...and maybe Dorothy.

C Bonesmith

Is it fair/appropriate/kind to tell Sarah about Jocelyn? I've never been in this situation and am genuinely asking about the etiquette. I'd hate to out someone but Joss seems out... just... not to most of her bio family. What's the appropriate thing to do with someone who knows the trans person tangentially if they haven't told you/you haven't asked?

AE Gonzalez

Until she catches them making out, or notices Joyce is wearing Dorothy’s panties, or notices Dorothy is going down on Joyce.

Harold

It's well established that her hugs are traps

AE Gonzalez

Thus Dramaggedon begins.

KittyKai

She's so good at this you guys xD

MrShoggoth

I thought the last one is just what friends do sometimes, according to Jennifer?

Harold

Sarah: "Now you've done it, Joyce. NOW you've done it. You've made me feel sorry for Joe. I will NEVER forgive you for this."

MrShoggoth

It’s like watching the last four minutes of Twin Peaks’ final episode but drawn out over multiple days.

Harold

@Andrea Andrew: Had to read that a couple of times to realize that "her" is referring to Joyce.

Harold

SOMEONE wants to mount Joyce, that's for sure

etherealDesign

trans woman here - entirely context dependent. the best thing to do if you know someone who isn't fully out is to ask them about it. they'll know who theyre okay with knowing, and with some discretion you can do pretty well just from this. this requires planning ahead though which joyce didn't manage to do, oops! she might just be screwed. in her position i would lie shamelessly and backtrack as fast as possible but she's probably incapable of that so shrug. sarah is 100% fine though, im sure

Smoochie

I’m pretty sure I saw this in Game of Thrones. Something about telling one truth so you don’t have to lie about another—I dunno, there was a dragon probably.

emily koster

when in doubt never out someone, but jocelyn does seem pretty open with strangers and friends, sarah has a history of being normal about trans people, and jocelyn being trans is relevant to the conversation so id say its ok in this case.

C.T. Phipps

Suggestion for Joyce: "Hey, you can call your sister and ask." :)

Alyx

This is just my opinion as a Trans(TM): If she's ever told Sarah that she doesn't have a big sister before, it wouldn't be bad to fill her in just so there's no confusion. If, on the other hand, Sarah didn't know about her siblings either way, she should just not bring up Jocelyn's trans-ness. That does hinge on Jocelyn being out as a woman publicly (which she probably is, given that she's at a protest on a college campus in a dress).

etherealDesign

i choose to forget that she has tear gas residue on her and believe that raidah and sarah are both commenting on how she smells because they can smell a cloud of sapphic particles issue forth from her like pigpen's dust cloud in The Peanuts

Shane Wegner

Was the ending at least awesome?

5099 5618 v2.0

IT IS THE BEATING OF THE HIDEOUS HEART

Smoochie

…I’m just gonna keep holding onto the thin shred of hope that GRRM releases the final books.

Shane Wegner

If Sarah has Trample, she will continue to apply the remaining damage even after the initial blocker is overcome.

5099 5618 v2.0

"Dissemble no more! I admit the deed!"

AE Gonzalez

Next comic is Dorothy and *her* roommate, Becky.

William Lewis

Start with true "I was at the protest, I have to shower the tear gas off, we'll talk after" and in the shower call and ask Jocelyn.

Shane Wegner

::Sarah’s skill in [Interrogator’s Glare] has increased by +2::

Shane Wegner

🎵It’s dangerous to go alone, take this.🎶⚔️

Ali Youngman

I mean… I assumed she smelled like Dorothy because they’d been making out

Maude Reads Things

Oh god, good luck with the big sister interrogation.

etherealDesign

the 'dorothy pheromones' theory from her first conversation with lucy finally comes all the way back around

Heatth

To be fair Sarah is probably the safest person to tell. Like, I know they want, and should, talk with the boyfriends and Becky first, but Sarah is the least likely to go spill the beans ahead of them (if only because she doesn't socialize). The worse that would happen is Sarah scolding Joyce which, like, is fair. And might help to gain some outside perspective on what to do next.

taekwondogirl

Not only does she not socialize, she wants to absolutely and utterly stay away from drama.

Harold

"On January 29, Dorothy Keener was asked to remove herself from her place of residence. That request came from her roommate."

GundamBradley

I think Joyce is debating whether or not to mention Jocelyn to Sarah, not anything related to the Dorothy kissing.

Heatth

I took as both. What she hid first was Jocelyn, but when Sarah said she got secrets Joyce starts to panic. THAT, I think is Dorothy. Specially because, from a dramatic perspective, the Jocelyn secret doesn't really matter. Sarah has no horse on that race, it is irrelevant for her, and for us, the readers, if she finds out Joyce has a trans sister. That would make punch line very week and definitively not worth a double silent panel. Thus, the secret Joyce is worrying about is the other more meaningful one.

Harold

SECRET JOYCE SECRETS!

GPanda

Same. Though I do stress the broad strokes of the ending probably were from Martin the problem is the show was practically cutting its own legs off throughout the show by making big consequential changes that sank the show in the long run

least_rectangles

After all the fucking moral high-grounding from Joyce and Dorothy specifically, there better be some sharp fucking lessons in humility and judging-not in store for both of them. You can be a messy bitch, and you can be a moral center, but not both at the same time.

GPanda

Exactly what I want

GPanda

It’s going to be hard to avoid drama in this situation because the fault lines spread across the entire friend group

NinjaZaku

The look Sarah's giving has gone past staring daggers. It's more like staring greatswords.

Tessea

Joyce, the phrase you're looking for is, "I'm sorry Sarah, but it's not my secret to tell."

Tessea

Oh smeg, That completely slipped my mind in all the excitement!

Simon Magid

"I shall speak greatswords to her, but use none." Hmmm. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it, really.

Tessea

And Sal because it's her jacket. So probably a layer of smoke as well. (blarg... I could never have borrowed her clothes)

Tessea

Joyce ..ooO(This is NOT the confrontation I was expecting!!)

AE Gonzalez

At this point, “messy” is a supreme understatement.

Katrina Marie Paton

I almost feel Joyce breaking up with Joe may not be a bad thing from Sarah's perspective.

Sajuuk-Khar

Sarah is about two seconds from not giving a shit, which is ironic because Joyce is about two seconds from spilling the beans all over the floor

Waifu Purplebutt

Yeah there NEEDS to be a moral reconning for their cheating on their boyfriends, they can't just get away scot-free from this

GPanda

Honestly if she does the dumping I’m flipping tables

Astariel

Yes, public flogging and big scarlet 'A's sewn into all their clothing is the only acceptable outcome! /s

least_rectangles

Also, I'm a little bit annoyed that we just saw a pudgy early twenties girl go toe-to-toe with armored riot police and not get absolutely fucking wrecked faster than you can say "stop resisting" but also the two major protagonists need to be cruel, selfish tw-ts to their partners and friends because "relationships are messy in real life tee hee" bruh GTFO here

least_rectangles

Nothing that drastic. Just an occasional middle finger from people whose opinions matter to them will do.

Kelly (they-them)

I wish First Semester Joyce could meet Second Semester Joyce. She'd immediately be shocked and appalled by the glasses and then things would escalate from there

Tessea

It would be hilarious, though! And have her meet current Becky

GPanda

Honestly being in the dog house and losing friendships would be nice too. I hope Joe get the friends in the divorce

David M Willis

future joyce: so uh you're still kissing gay people past joyce: OH NO, DIDN'T I LEARN MY LESSON???? future joyce: well,

Sajuuk-Khar

Frodo!Sarah: Alright then, keep your secrets— Gandalf!Joyce: ALRIGHT, YES, I ADMIT IT, BILBO’S MAGIC RING IS THE ONE RING OF SAURON, I’VE KNOWN FOR YEARS, AND I MADE OUT WITH ELROND!DOROTHY JUST NOW

zee

Are people still bitching about amazigirls feats? Yeah it's unrealistic (tho fyi to that pudgy comment, she's canonically shredded with a thick layer of fat on top, like a lot of buff people irl) but who gives a shit at this point

zee

Call and ask before you say anything else

Constantine Hannaher

This is the second day that the Patreon email crops the image making it impossible to read or compare with any unannounced changes. I say (uselessly) boo.

Sajuuk-Khar

Frodo!Sarah: Valar DAMMIT, Gandalf!Joyce, Galadriel!Joe is gonna be all heartbroken over this! To say nothing of how Saruman!Becky will react! ==INT. URUK-HAI PROVING GROUNDS, ISENGARD== Saruman!Becky: *hugging the thighs of Uruk-Hai Dina* Who serves you, queen? Uruk-Dina: *enjoying the opportunity to do the orc voice* SAAARUUMANNN-BECKYYYYY

least_rectangles

Hey Dave, thank God you're here, you posted the Yuri NTR slip shine to the main site by mistake

least_rectangles

But yeah, because I'm taking a mild dig at your spotty writing I'm an domestic abuser and sociopath. If that's the tone you want to take, then before you ban me I'd like you to know that your main quality as a writer is that you have a work ethic

least_rectangles

Also, the best thing you could do for gay rights is shut the fuck up forever As your friend Randy once wrote, some people help the cause by not helping the cause

Smoochie

Boromir!Joyce: I ask only for the strength to keep Dorothy company! If you would but vacate the dorm room for one night… Frodo!Sarah: No. Boromir!Joyce: Why do you recoil? I am no pervert! Frodo!Sarah: You are not yourself! Boromir!Joyce: What chance do you think you’ll have to bring Tony back here!? He has his own room and you will beg to sleep there before the end! You fool! Give me the dorm for the night! It should be mine! Frodo!Sarah disappears (under her sheets). Boromir!Joyce: I see your mind! You will sleep in the dorm room bed! You will clam jam me from hanky panky with Dorothy and staying awake! You’ll go to sleep and to the sleep of us both! Curse you! Curse you and all the big sisters! The dark power of horny (and taking Dotty from Walky) leaves Joyce and she instantly regrets everything. Boromir!Joyce: Sarah…? Sarah? What have I done!? Please…Sarah!

5099 5618 v2.0

No one expects the [Roommate] Inquisition!

Jay

Good, good. The reckoning is coming and the queers shall pay for their crimes! ....that sounds really really bad but I also wanna be a dramatic bitch so im not deleting it but i will add this clarification that im just excited for the drama to FINALLY begin.

5099 5618 v2.0

There is a minor point of order that Sarah is navigating pretty well: someone's coming-out is *their moment*. Doesn't matter what you know. Doesn't matter if you introduced them to their last few exes. Doesn't matter if they've been extremely unsubtle about things. If they choose to tell you, the only correct thing to do is let it wash over you, hug them if they want that from you, and remind them that you've got their back. That seems to be how the ritual is best managed, IMHEX [1]. Interrupting someone's coming-out simply Is Not Done. This means being present for threshold-adjacent dithering can occasionally be a bit tedious, however. Holding her tongue seems like a very real expression of maturity on her part, again. ------ [1] - Mind you, after that it can be acceptable to give them some shit about how you long since figured it out, and maybe let them know the specifics of the related betting pools (e.g.: who had "they cause a scene and got photographed smooching in public before letting anyone else know" [2]) [2] - I assume this was Becky's position.

Mariah

at least yall are aware of what you sound like...

Mariah

if a webcomic is making you this upset maybe you should take a break from it also gay rights has a lot more to worry about than a college webcomic presenting gay people as flawless and perfect has not helped us neither has respectability politics. Besides This comics has plenty of Healthy queer relationships even if you don't like dorothy/ joyce.

Mariah

the past few hours I feel like people bought a patreon to specifically to yell at willis which reminds me of when kid rock bought bud light to shoot at it it just feels really silly.

Mariah

No one is saying your a domestic abuser jeez but if you are unironically calling Amazgirl a unrealistic mary sue then you are acting very similar to incelorator.

David M Willis

it's weird that people pay ME money to tell on themselves in here

Harold

@Mariah: I never thought I'd see discourse in this forum (as opposed to the main site) along the lines of (paraphrasing here) "Willis needs to have his allyship privileges revoked for depicting a same-sex couple starting their relationship by cheating."

Mariah

expecting becky or sarah people that are close enough to be considered family to joyce to choose joe someone they barely know or like over joyce is just not realistic at all. By all means joe and joyce should break up and maybe stop being friends maybe joyces friends are mad at her but some of yall really want a teen girl to like be ostrasized and abandoned by everyone they care about so eager for them to "suffer" to be "punished" and its really authoritarian and weird.

Jay

Life is more fun shen you're dramatic

Mariah

yeah like I come here to avoid shit like that look people have a right to be upset at the cheating they have a right to want joyce and dorothy to be held accountable. You know what they don't have the right to do? Use threatening and homophobic language want queer people to "suffer" people who do that should be banned in my opinion so many "progressives" using authoritarian language to attack queer people. They are acting exactly like the Extremist fundies that this comic has always been against.

Mariah

Reminds me of the idea of cultural christianity even people who claim to be secular internalize the same ideas about punishment and suffering just replace "accountability" with "sin" and its the same concept. Anyway as a queer person I will always champion flawed messy queer characters over the sanatized infantalize characters that only tokenize us and demand we have to be perfect and flawless to deserve respect. The Purity Police should go watch a disney movie or something if they want tokenism so badly.

etherealDesign

we actually hear enough of this in real life bud, do you mind not bringing it here

Mariah

Im being homophobic "Ironically" haha that makes it okay! Yeah buddy I could just turn on fox news if I wanted to hear that....

Harold

I don't know about anyone else, but it's generally been my experience that when someone feels the need to say "I know that sounds really really bad," there's a reason for that

Jay

Yes because I think a couple cheating is the grandest of sins. Y'all are more dramatic than I am

Jay

Too late 😘

Jay

Sorry forgot making hyperbolic statements about someone being caught hiding the fact they're cheating was homophobic. I forgot cheating was actually a crime and im praying for the downfall of all lesbians everywhere.

Mariah

"Im not racist but..... " energy

Jay

I aint going to change your mind so idrc what you have to say but if you genuinely think im homophobic from that comment i think you're a wacko lol

Mariah

maybe saying something homophobic even as a joke is shitty its the same thing people tried to tell dave chappel and look how that turned out. Yes the cheating is wrong and bad you have brought it up every thread its not an excuse for the homophobic and sexist language people have used lately. I hate caitlyn jenner does it give me the right to be transphobic and make transphobic jokes heck no because that effects other trans people its saying "oh if your a bad person I have the right to dehumanize you. If someone is telling you something is homophobic maybe reflect of why that is instead of going "you guys are just cheating cheaters that love cheating"

Jay

I dont believe my comment was honophobic, if anything im surprised to see people find it homophobic.

Jay

My comment doesnt degrade, insult, belittle or imply they're "lesser than" someone else due to the fact they're queer. Unless you're one of those folks who thinks 'queer' in and of itself is homophobic but thats a whole nother can or worms we dont need to be getting into in a patreon comment section

Jayne Lindgren

I will preface this by stating that I'm white. That definitely influences my perspective, though I'd like to believe I can recognize that and adjust for it somewhat. Anyway. I feel like a lot of people are downplaying the very real traumatic event that Joyce and Dorothy went through, and how that might affect them, because they are upset at the decisions the characters made/are making. Like, set aside their whiteness and the relationship stuff: Two young, queer women - one of whom is Jewish - have just had a violent encounter with militarized law enforcement. They only escaped through good fortune (i.e. personally knowing the one superhero in an otherwise mundane world), and haven't really had time to process anything about what just happened. And the general response to this has been...to ignore that and focus solely on how their actions will affect their male partners, to agree with someone dismissing the idea that any feelings they might have about their traumatic experience could be valid *because* they are white and weren't there for the right reasons, and to assume that anything less than a pitch-perfect response (defined by the commenter) from this point on represents a complete moral collapse into cheating whores. People keep shitting on them for "choosing" to have their big moment during the protest, but has anyone considered that the intensity of their emotional expression might be a *result* of what was happening? People disassociate during high-stress events all the time, specifically as a coping mechanism. Dorothy and Joyce were in a situation where, regardless of their motivations or whiteness, they *were* in danger. And by focusing on their emotions about each other overflowing, they were able to avoid the fear and terror that I think most people would feel in that situation. Yeah, there are things that can be said about whiteness, allyship and the right way to support causes as someone who has privilege. But c'mon, ya'll, these girls aren't villains. Their young and dumb and well-meaning and queer. Give some grace.

Sajuuk-Khar

I’m mad about the characters in my favorite comic acting off! I think I will write a letter to the creator telling him he’s a huge piece of shit and to die in a hole! Surely, this will improve the quality of the comic! What’s that you say? I’m simplifying the situation and I should note that first, you tried writing but not writing angry shitty fanfic about Joyce and Dorothy being publicly shamed by those they care about, like a weird loser? And then when a mild joke was made that fits your extremely shown ass like a glove, you decided the next thing to do with that ass was poop on the floor???? Well, I’m not sure that makes it look any better, but sure!!

Mariah

I found it homophobic and Im a lesbian saying "queers should be punished" at a time when queer people are losing our rights especially trans people because of "immorality" is in poor taste. If you had said I can't wait for dorothy and joyce to be punished for there crimes I would have no issue with your comment but saying "the queers disserved to be punished echos homophobic talking points conservatives have used for years Im not saying you did it on purpose but its important to point out when people use harmful language even if its a accident.

Sajuuk-Khar

I will say that I think there are valid objections to the whole protest-related deal, and I share in them, but they are almost exclusively Doylist, to use a possibly outdated term: i.e., the problem is doing an allegory for a Free Palestine protest *as a backdrop*. This is a POV that I believe Willis has acknowledged and generally agrees with, though, and I don’t think it helps to bring it up ad nauseam/I am deeply suspicious that anyone bringing that point up now who hasn’t done so already is doing so in good faith. Other than that, though, you’re on the money,

Jay

Well i apologize for my comment in that case and I'll be more careful with my wording in the future.

The Deliberate Myth

D+D were doing just fine until they ran out of published material. At that point, it became clear they had no sense of story or pacing. The show became some 8-year-old feverishly telling you a story that they are SUPERDUPEREXCITED about. "And then THIS happened! And d'ya know what? Then THAT happened! But then THIS happened! And then guess! Guess what! And then this OTHER thing happened TOO! So then THIS happened! And then it's over."

GPanda

They were fucking up long before they ran out of source material. It’s funny I’m gonna assume you haven’t actually read the books because if you had you’d realise they were making mistakes very early too. And now hotd is going down a similar path and making all the same mistakes

Smoochie

@Gpanda Lady Stoneheart and how INSANELY important she is to Brienne’s story immediately comes to mind.

GPanda

I can’t see Becky and Sarah not being her friend anymore but the thing is Joe is also Becky’s friend as well as Dina. Sal’s brother was cheated on and she’s dating Joe’s roommate, and like Amber might have low key pushed Dorothy to this point to free up walky (Joe is her step brother). Like this is partially why I find this ship so hard to root for when you combine all the backdrop and context building up to it. By going and cheating on with eachother on their friends joyce and Dorothy have the potential to hurt so many people by making such a selfish decision and I care about all the other people this will probably hurt too!

GPanda

The tysha confession honestly comes to my mind

Heatth

I know right, she didn't even hesitate. Kinda make me wonder if there will be a minor jealously subplot regarding Jocelyn.

GPanda

God I hope not

least_rectangles

Hey, I would've kept it more civil if a certain someone hadn't insinuated that I'm like that dude who beat his wife and psychologically tortured his daughter to the point where she turned into a walking DSM-5. As someone who finds domestic abuse disgusting, I got a bit miffed at the comparison. I only smack my partners when and where they ask me to, thank you very much. Also, related gripe: either The System is a merciless, unstoppable machine that grinds up gay people and immigrants and leaves misery in it's wake, or it's a gaggle of incompetent Midwestern chuds in plastic body armor who can get fucking owned by a single vigilante. It reminds me of that article/essay Umberto Eco wrote about totalitarian governments: the Enemy is weak, but also omnipotent. Depending on political convenience. Also: I got slightly butthurt about a jarring narrative shift in a work of fiction that I'm emotionally invested in and I'm venting about it on Patreon, and you make it sound like I'm about to shave a swastika into my pubes and become Charlie Kirk's volunteer fluffer. Touch grass.

etherealDesign

yeah, but a lot of people who would otherwise never think of themselves as misogynist, people who consider themselves lefty and progressive, haven't really done the work to unpack the internalized misogyny that's inculcated into all of us by the misogynistic cultures we're raised into. a lot of people are very careful to respect women only until they do something that marks them as a fair target - having the wrong beliefs, behaving amorally or immorally, etc. Then this is taken as permission to target them with the same prolonged cycles of misogynistic abuse that most people dont consider acceptable to levy against "the good ones." basically, i agree entirely. cut them some slack, folks! everyone agrees theyre in the wrong here, themselves included, try not to make it a federal issue!

Mariah

hope you had fun troll

Mariah

I straight up don't think sal cares at all everyone else you have a point I just think the consequences are not going to be nearly as extreme as people are speculating.

Mariah

people also think the target being white women somehow gives them a pass at being misogynists and like no its doesn't you can have a issue with joyce and dorothy without restorting to sexism and or homophobia.

Smoochie

Puritanism is slowly creeping in into every aspect of life as some weird barometer.

Doki

Jocelyne was actually wearing pants at the protest! I'd noticed that earlier and just double checked to make sure. That might end up being good for her if her dad starts asking about if he saw her there. But I agree, she seems completely willing to be out to Joyce's friends considering she WAS wearing a dress while meeting them the day before, so I think it's honestly probably a safe move to tell Sarah...? (I say all this as a trans person BTW.)

David M Willis

I called you Amber's dad because, exactly like Amber's dad, you demeaned Amber by calling her fat and won't believe she could be Amazi-girl. Get over yourself, weirdo.

Brian Danger Hicks

She does smell like Dorothy! (because Dorothy also smells like tear gas right now)

David M Willis

imagine riding in on one's high horse, with "moral winner" written on it with crayon or whatever, and leading with "fat chicks, am i right" and then sliding directly into "i sure hope these wayward females are punished suitably for their insolence" with presumably the hugest erection

David M Willis

anyway, least_rectangles has ended his two-day visit here, and no doubt will go cry about it on reddit

C.T. Phipps

Yes, I really wish they'd gone harder on Bulmeria being its own fictional version. Because at the end of the day this is not about Palestine, cannot be about Palestine, and making it so insults Palestine.

KittyKai

Joycelyn doesnt strike me as the jealous type. She'd be more likely to embrace Sarah, and teach her the ways of trolling her younger sister. They will both be the bane of Joyce's existance x3

shiftdruid

Joyce realizing the question of secrecy in that moment, over Jocelyne, is so real. Moments after she already said it. Honestly, that makes me so happy too. She's so- Joyce. I love her.

Maude Reads Things

I don't disagree that they're going to have feelings about what happened at the protest hit them later (probably!) but in the mean time we've been discussing the ramifications of them cheating on their partners because....well, they've been discussing their new relationship. It's relevant to what's being talked about in the strip. I don't think that them not being there for the cause but rather for personal reasons automatically invalidates the trauma they've experienced or even makes the reasons they had bad but that doesn't make it invalid to point out they weren't there for the cause, but rather for personal reasons (which is bound to annoy a Muslim woman who has skin in this game).

Sajuuk-Khar

I’m morbidly amazed that anyone would come back after shitting the bed and flouncing that hard, and then try to downplay it (while also having weird Li’l Bits fantasies absolutely no one brought up or implied) despite the evidence being extremely visible to anyone who bothered to scroll. Like. Who do you think is in your corner, guy, you shit the bed with the LIGHTS on and your comeback is “actually it’s weird that you care about my shitting in your bed. I believe Eco said in Ur-Fascism that ‘they who care about my shit are also those who try to flush it.’ Checkmate.”

Beck Chonigman

Now the only question is how long until Joyce comes to this realization.

Rob McBobson

I know this doesn't need pointing out, but I'll do it anyway: Despite what least_rectangles said, there is no contradiction between the fact that "The System" is cruel and powerful and the fact that individual douchebag cops can get beaten up by Amazi-Girl.