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Early update for November 6, 2025 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-11-05 04:55:01
Imported:
2026-06

Content

oh no my medal

Files

Comments

Sajuuk-Khar

GOD I KNEW IT OH NO JOYCE YOU STUPID END OF HISTORY BABY IDIOT

MrShoggoth

So did Raidah just try a “no, u” to have the last word? Again, that’s something my former friend would do as well.

Logibear

"I Was Heroically Gay. I Should Get A Medal" - Dumbing of Age Book 17

Sajuuk-Khar

Behold her. Behold the Icon of Sappho, whom this day in Dunn Meadow redeemed all Creation by her act of Eating Dorothy Right and Getting Gay Married.

voyager-ngc5195

Raidah, seen here channeling energy from Ewan McGregor's "You have done that yourself!" line in Revenge of the Sith.

William Lewis

Just gotta get that homophobia in, eh, Raidah. Not even interesting as a goblin.

LupinThe8th

But is Joyce Lawful Gay, Neutral Gay, or Chaotic Gay?

Logibear

Joyce is the rarest flower the "Bisexual Bisexual" on the Kinsey Alignment Chart

AE Gonzalez

The eating came later in Joyce’s bed, as did Joyce and Dorothy.

Logibear

"Of course it is what I have done. Now you tell me exactly what it is that I've done so that I know for a fact that you're on the same page"

Graeme

Man Raidah is full of crap. How can she stand there and pass judgement when literally her whole life is built around using others to get ahead. She probably only feigns passion in the protest for clout.

Elizabeth Sandifer and Penn

It’s not heartbreaking if it’s not actually the worst person you know making a good point.

Railway Series Book Club

god she looks so fucking stupid standing there with the little ice cream cone in her hand

Sajuuk-Khar

Okay so Joyce is digging in her heels on having cracked the egg, she is the bird that flies to God whose name is Abraxas, except God is fake and dumb for her, but she *did* totally heroically shatter her own self-concept and world again, and now she’s reborn, she’s washed in the Gay Blood of Gay Christ. This makes sense, because she’s Joyce and she’s the idiot blorbo of forever. But. Hey. So. What the fuck are you *talking* about, Raidah? Like…what are you *on* about? What did she do, in your eyes, besides “disrupt the protest” and “be a slut, by Raidah definitions”?

Sajuuk-Khar

It’s a reference to when she believed that by becoming atheist she had reached self-completion and knew everything, which I called was something she was thinking re: coming out/getting with Dotty several months ago

C

For all of her mistakes, Joyce had the courage to speak to her innermost truth that she was never allowed to even imagine existing up until now. It was bad timing because it ended up unintentionally taking attention away from real, important issues...but she shouldn't be shamed for being gay, or for prioritizing her love. Raidah, for someone who went out of her way to destroy Sarah's life over one friend...every single relationship she's had since this semester's started (and arguably most in the prior semester) have been fake relationships designed to benefit her career the most. Even in a scenario where she should have some valid complaints, there just doesn't seem to be any sincerity coming through.

Tsa

if im understanding right, Raidah's basically making the same complaint Asma was. She's responding specifically to "nothing could be more important" -- By making a Sapphic Spectacle of herself, Joyce has effectively made herself the most important part of a protest that was never actually ABOUT her.

Sajuuk-Khar

I am not being literal about the order of operations I promise lol

Wikineer

Raidah is agreeing with Joyce's statement that apparently, "nothing else could possibly matter" more than her heroically gay kiss. Because their kiss is what the media (and everyone in their social circle) is choosing to focus on, attention wasn't paid to the violent repression of a peaceful protest against the slaughter of innocents. From Raidah's perspective, the already slim chance that the protest was going to push the university to divestment was torpedoed because two people who hadn't even planned to attend went there and kissed.

Ali Youngman

Ok, I’m so glad I’m not the only one that was super confused by this strip

Sajuuk-Khar

Yeah but like at least it made sense for Obi-Wan to say that!

GundamBradley

I get what Raidah is saying here, and if she *led* with that, I'd be agreeing with her. But she didn't, and so, yeah, sorry Raidah, I still saw the real you.

Sarah

Joyce is being a dumb white freshman and has no real understanding of intersectionality yet. I hope that she learns. But her behavior is understandable while not ideal.

Riley Aurelia

So on some level, Joyce DOES feel like she should be praised for making the anti-genocide protest about her coming out.

DramaQueen

It’s true, we will be having to have the Stonewall riots all over again. Nothing like having to fight a battle that you thought was already won. It IS all about civil rights, for victims of invasion and also for religious and political minorities.

Sajuuk-Khar

she lifts her dairy lamp beside the golden door and the dairy dribbles onto her stupid shoes!!!

Logibear

Joyce is a convenient target whose sexuality and beliefs do not align with the Faculty. Raidah is going to try and use her as a scapegoat for political gain within the university as we know that she already cozies up to Tony pretty much only because he's a Deans son.

DramaQueen

I think it’s more about her own repressed sexuality.

C

Yeah, no, it's never a good idea to reach that point. But I'd like to think it's just Joyce being genuinely happy with who she is, and her own personal truth.

Ria

Joyce Brown is, at all times, in her most final and correct and perfect iteration 😇😤 Raidah is, at all times, just utterly useless at speaking from a place of having a moral point Like, obviously free palestine!!! And obviously joyce should be made aware of the wackness of her big happy kiss overshadowing the police crackdown of an anti-genocide protest!!!!! It's just that like, raidah, you should *say* that, and not lead with "ur unemployably homosexual now, enjoy the misery like what I felt that time you stole my boyfriend and that other time when your roommate intervened in my friend's life"

Packy Anderson

(to Andrea)☝️☝️☝️ (to Raidah) 🖕🖕🖕

DiDi-chan

I need someone to explain what she means by "heroically gay" because it sounds incredibly obnoxious and that is the least harsh adjective that I could use to describe that. Also, not to bring this back to Joe but fucking ouch. I'm calling it. She never loved him as much as he loved her. Not even once.

Edwin I Callahan

Again, Dorothy and Joyce didn’t steal the meaning of the protest. Daisy did, by putting that photo on the front of the paper.

Mohmi

Ultimately it isn't her fault her smooch was made a headline during a protest, lay off nerd lmao. Get parried loser.

Sajuuk-Khar

C my dogg I love her coming out and romance with Dotty too, but this is absolutely her digging deep into her character flaw well and pie-ing herself in the face with it.

Populuxe

I believe this is correct. However, it wasn’t Joyce or Dorothy that made themselves the center of the protest. It was Daisy, the only lesbian at IU that can’t get laid.

Ria

Idk how much experience you're coming at this from Willis but imo you are *nailing* the all-too-frustrating way that bonds of solidarity in student organizing spaces can sometimes get deeply strained by some truly stupid personal dynamics In such a way that the organization loses a startling amount of its already limited capacity very very quickly

Empress of Robots

"Hey Raidah. Fuck you (I say fuck now too). I'm going to finish eating this soft serve and then I'm going to go upstairs to go eat my girlfriend. Die mad." ~Joyce (probably, if this strip had one more panel)

DramaQueen

Also anti gay- and trans- genocide, right? It is all in a real sense quite related.

Harold

Joyce’s internal monologue: “I should throw this at her as she’s walking away. I should. But I really wanted this soft serve and it’s just SO GOOD”

Astariel

You tell her Joyce! Love to see her standing up for herself and having pride in herself. Raidah, please go die in a fire.

KittyKai

Raidah, Joyce had given you an absolute slam dunk to come out looking like the better person. Every word out of Joyce's mouth was so deliciously cringe that you had every opportunity to look better next to her. HOW IN THE FUCK DID YOU FUCK THAT UP SO BADLY?!?! HOLY SHIT-

tifani

Jesus fucking Christ, Joyce. The amount of self-delusion it takes to reframe what she’s done today as “heroic” is unreal. She’s spiraling so hard she’s trying to turn her own collapse into a redemption arc. Every action in the last 24 hours has been completely out of alignment with who she thinks she is, so now she has to double down — because if she admits she was wrong, then she’s burned her entire life down for nothing. Joyce really said, “I’ve destroyed everything I know, but at least I’m the best version of myself.” The self-delusion is staggering. She’s reframing self-destruction as moral victory, convincing herself this chaos means something, because the alternative is admitting she torched her own life for no reason. And the thing is, none of this was necessary. This relationship didn’t require cheating, or betrayal, or hurting anyone. Joyce could’ve chosen patience and honesty — she just didn’t want to. She chose the selfish route, then decided she’s not going to feel shame about it. But she should feel shame — not for being bi, obviously, but for the way she went about this. She’s weaponized “true love” as moral justification, taken “all’s fair in love” to its most toxic extreme, and called it growth. That’s not liberation. That’s just narcissism with better branding.

KittyKai

To be clear here I love Joyce to death and wouldn't have her any other way xP

William Lewis

Presumes she is. I don't accept that anything she has said has had anything positive to do with this. Just her misery and hate.

Laura

happy zohran elected mayor of nyc day everyone!! :)

Sajuuk-Khar

Is…that…what she’s saying? It’s buried so deep in her petty personal beef with Joyce that that sound is basically static. Like, Jesus, Raidah, you are so fucking lost in the sauce! You genuinely think you’re working towards liberation with your Bugs Bunny shit instead of just playing Mean Girls? augh! So stupid!!

Ria

That said, again as always the reactions of these 20-or-less-year-olds are is almost never that deep, and I'm sure if we spent as much time as an audience with Raidah as we do with Joyce I would feel similarly empathetic towards the former's side of the crashout as I do towards the latter's. Such is the trouble when you've seen 1 million scenes of one character as she has trauma flashbacks to like 3 different life-altering events in the past 4 months, vs. p much only seen the other interacting with their foes

Sajuuk-Khar

If this is Raidah trying to stand up for Bulmeria’s genocide victims, congratulations Raidah, you have about as much future as an attorney as Dorothy does as President

tifani

Struggling to see how Raidah fucked this up.

Steph

The toughest thing about this for me is that joyce didn’t really make herself the most important part of the protest. It’s certainly the most important part of the protest to her, and she’s failing to grasp the perspectives and voices she should probably be listening to, but my girl didn’t put herself on the front of the paper. Should she be doing better? Yeah probably, but my expectations aren’t high for a recently converted fundie. Least she can do is take it on the chin and get punched up at.

tifani

It means absolutely fucking nothing. That’s what it means. This is just Joyce rewriting the story in her head so she can live with the fallout because she can’t undo any of what’s happened.

Sajuuk-Khar

You’re like if Jimmy McGill had no skillset besides “crimes” and the crimes weren’t even stealthy, like if he just did them in broad daylight all the time, so even when he’s doing crimes for the right reasons, no one would be able to fucking tell, not even the audience!!!!

DramaQueen

Whereas we know, in real life in this timeline at least, the university was never going to divest. It was going to double down under the threat of Presidential whatever, it sent the cops to beat up the kids and deport any foreign students. The Kiss is like one of those iconic photos of rare joy from WWII or the protests against the Vietnam War, a symbol of freedom against repression.

DramaQueen

I’m happy with her throwing happiness in Raidah’s face. It seems to have gotten to Raidah how hollow her own life is.

tifani

Begging you to tell me how exactly Raidah is the one who lost here. Joyce is screaming like a lunatic. Raidah is just walking away refusing to spell things out for Joyce any clearer.

Sajuuk-Khar

Raidah is so fucking stupid!! she’s so dumb!!!!! I want to record how she sounds and play it back to her!!!! aaaaaa!!!! she’s not evil like Mary she’s just *mean* and *STUPID*

Jennifer Novelli

Raidah's landing hits Joyce won't feel until later.

Morgan Byrd

I feel like Joyce is allowed to be a little self-possessed at this time. It’s not her fault that her gay awakening got turned into a media circus, and I remain unconvinced that Raidah’s ostensible righteous fury isn’t driven by anything besides her desire (conscious or otherwise) to *actually* be president or something. She’s like a dark mirror of Dorothy.

JarJar

Maaan… I don’t even know what to make of this yet?? They both seem so ridiculous to me!… Is the irony here that they both think they’re the best versions of themselves and that they’re both wrong?

David Jackson

I've honestly lost track: what does Raidah want? I don't remember why she has it out for Joyce anymore.

taekwondogirl

Bullshit. Current feelings do not overwrite feelings of the past.

Smoochie

I get that everyone is happy that Joyce is being her most queer self but— —And I cannot stress this enough— I am genuinely amazed that ‘besides disrupt the protest’ is treated like this ho hum thing which is exactly Raidah’s point.

Waifu Purplebutt

To exert her moral superiority on someone - she has no skin in this fight to the best of our knowledge other than that.

Ria

Also does heroically gay maybe refer to her jumping in front of Jocelyne's coming out bullet? Makes more sense imo than "I'm the legend who got photographed big kissingly"

Smoochie

Raidah is agreeing that Joyce has made her being heroically queer the most important thing that happened. …And it’s completely lost on Joyce what Raidah means in agreeing with that.

Sajuuk-Khar

@Smoochie: okay. Please. I am trying to ask politely: do not represent it that way. That is not what I’m saying at all. I am not giving Joyce a free pass, I do not think being centered instead of the suffering of genocide victims, EVEN FICTIONAL SEMI-ALLEGORY ONES, is “a ho hum thing.”

Dan Rabin

Visual notes: Both the borderless panels have half a Raidah—first when Joyce regains her attention, and last when she delivers her walk-off line. The fact that there's no floor in such panels gives the somewhat-distant Joyce an air of being a miniature woman floating in the air, shouting into Raidah's ear :-). Raidah is good at condescension: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/challenged/ Character note: Raidah has already unloaded on Daisy, the actual agent of the kiss being publicized: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/engagement/.

Waifu Purplebutt

What self-destruction? She hasn't broken up with Joe, who she has (although briefly) talked with about this, and he expressed his consent for her to find out things about herself without hard feelings and to still be together if she wants. True, she's in the wrong for not telling Dorothy about it, but she was late to telling Joe about it as well, so that's par for the course.

Brendan T

I think it's really interesting how this is all messy in very realistic young idealistic ways. Joyce and Dorothy are catching heat for taking attention away from the issues in the protest...but they never intended to be photographed and in fact got outed before they were ready to field it as a result. In many ways, the anger directed at them is displaced from who it should be directed at (the newspaper running an article based on thirst rather than impact). That said, Dorothy and Joyce are tripling down on refusing to recognize why those people are upset because it's been mingled with their realization of their queerness, something they're (rightfully) refusing to apologize for. And as we (and they) know, it was a surge of emotions in a heated situation and not like they deliberately went in there to garner attention. Everybody is right about some parts of the thing and wrong about others but they all can't fully see it because they're so caught up in their own perspective.

Railway Series Book Club

joyce isn't really spiraling, she's embracing her bisexual awakening and trying to make the best of where it's taken her. just because she hasn't been centering men in her actions doesn't mean she's a narcissist

Logibear

Yeah, and Raidah discovered Daisy wasn't an easy pushover. So she went after the Avatar of Righteous Fury.

tifani

rubs temples Okay. We’re doing this, apparently. Joyce isn’t being “heroically gay.” Raidah is not the one who lost this interaction. Joyce is having a full-blown delusional self-justification spiral. Every narrative cue says so. The framing’s ironic, the tone’s mocking, and the “oh no my medal” punchline is the author winking at us to show how far gone she is. She’s not triumphant; she’s rationalizing. This is Joyce trying to rewrite her own story in real time so she can live with the fallout. None of this was necessary, none of it was noble, and she’s clinging to the only narrative that makes her feel like she didn’t just burn her entire life down. She’s not “right,” she’s coping, and the story knows it. That’s the point. (I am begging people to learn how to read tone. Please. For my health.)

Ph

Joyce broke up her relationship with Jacob.

Joseph

Radiah’s comment at the end smacks of “I cannot / will not continue continue this conversation”. Radiah was already walking off from yesterday’s comic, Joyce could have said literally anything and Radiah would have paid it exactly as much mind as she’s doing now (read: none at all) She’s just done with Joyce

Waifu Purplebutt

She was "heroically gay" by going into a dangerous and public situation to announce her love to her girlfriend because said girlfriend was being self-destructive and putting herself into said dangerous situation that was occurring in public. Joyce is Joe's redemption - Joe was Joyce' boyfriend. They both loved each other, and it's okay for that love to be unequal if the love is there regardless.

Morgan Byrd

Tl;dr You’re not wrong, Walter, you’re just an asshole[evil]

Waifu Purplebutt

No - she feels proud about going into a dangerous situation both to announce her gayness to the woman she's gay for who was being self-destructive by putting herself in a dangerous situation.

Grace Serenity

If only, but I'm pretty sure she'll find another reason to try to hurt Joyce

Ph

Not that that answers the question of what she wants. But it's kind of an elephant in the room.

The Axolartl

It's interesting to see a character who, for whatever reason, is so incapable of genuinely relating to another human person through a non-transactional lens that it ends up impacting her relationships with her enemies. Like this is clearly one of the only issues Raidah has genuine convictions about that aren't self serving in some way, and because of her own framework for all of her social interactions, she can't let herself go to a protest, she can't even go seek out the preferred target of her rage (Sarah), or the daughter of the people she wants the university to divest from. She's stuck with Joyce, a nuisance to be sure but not one with a particularly big impact outside of one college newspaper and who isn't even enough of the strawman fundie Raidah wishes she was to be insulted in a way that feels satisfying to her.

Grace Serenity

They're both underclassmen, so yeah.

Sajuuk-Khar

HOWEVER 1.) as has been pointed out ad infinitum, it *is not Joyce’s fault* she was selected by an actual irresponsible jackass media personality, Daisy, and used as propaganda 2.) what is Joyce supposed to do about being used as deflection propaganda? is she obligated to run around campus yelling that actually, Bulmeria’s war crimes are more important than her gay love?? like, obviously Joyce is being stupid!! we covered that with Asma! SHE doesn’t realize it because she’s Joyce and a moron baby, but we do as the audience and we can file away that as “a realization that will hit later” 3.) the thing that really “destroyed”, if in fact it did, the momentum of the protest, was brutal police repression and media blackout. if this protest movement was so flimsy as to be broken by one moment of deflection propaganda I don’t know what that says about it, other than what’s self-evident. 4.) we also, as the audience, know the depressing fact that one protest is not going to do jack shit. protests are good. direct action is good. It builds momentum towards a better world. But framing the problematic media coverage of Joyce as a dagger in the heart of Bulmeria’s oppressed is either naive or also stupid.

Laura

yeah joyce centering her queerness over the aims of the genocide protest is cringe. but knowing joyce, if someone takes 2 minutes to explain it to her, she will correct course. raidah is under no obligation to educate joyce. but what she's done here instead is so counterproductive. her words are vague enough such that Joyce can interpret them as a personal attack on her queerness and miss the point of critique entirely. there was an opportunity to make progress here! but raidah can't see past her vendetta, having already written joyce off as a fundie bumpkin.

Shane Wegner

“I saved Bulmeria! Bulmeria is saved now!” At least the personal revelations are a step forward.

Smoochie

I have a different perspective on Raidah and her motives here in these last two strips. It seems like from a lot of perspectives here, Raidah is just an evil bitch who hates queer love and should be stopped at all costs. It doesn’t matter if her relationship with Jacob was fodder for Joyce’s ‘it’s all about my growth’ journey, because everyone has decided she probably was using him. Doesn’t matter if it was originally built off a long, nasty feud between her and Sara… Anyway, my takeaway from Raidah is that she realized the harshest thing she could do to Joyce is simply state the truth of where being queer, being a person of color, being neurodivergent, being ANY box of ‘other’ in this country puts you. (The truth as Raidah has probably grown up to understand it anyway.) You guys view Raidah as power hungry for the sake of, but…I think it’s more power hungry for the sake of insulation. She may have aspirations to be a fairly liberal person in her power but the insulation that power offers to a degree is important (for Raidah). So the cruelest thing Raidah can say to a baby bird ally, stumbling to grow in this life is to let her know that she’s already clipped herself and tripped up her adjacent community neighbors for her own growth…Because that is probably the most asshole thing we as a ragtag bunch of others do to each other CONSTANTLY. “You fucked it up for the rest of us.” “You fucked this up for your own sake.” “You fucked this up because many of us have to be almost performatively perfect.”

Waifu Purplebutt

Fuck your "intersectionality" argument; that's not what Joyce was talking about, and she didn't make the situation about herself/her relationship/whatever, someone else did. There was a whole strip about how it wasn't Joyce who made the protest about her - it was the newspaper editor that did that. If she'd gone out there intending to make things about her, that would be one thing, but all she did was have a personal moment with someone in a public space where they had a reason to be there while an event was going on - someone else that had nothing to do with them at the time recorded this moment without their knowledge or permission, which while legal, resulted in this situation, but neither Joyce nor Dorothy are to blame for this - that blame lies solely on the person who published the headline.

Spartacus

So yeah, seems like Joyce still hasn't fully processed the ides that she's not the center of the universe

Lea

Honestly, I just can't help but wonder...

Waifu Purplebutt

It's so fucking frustrating how so many people are blaming Joyce for "making the protest about her" when that's what the newspaper editor did - if it weren't for that, to the best of our knowledge, nobody would have cared and the protest wouldn't have been framed around that moment shared between Joyce and Dorothy. All the blame lies with the editor, whom Raidah already went to and that's where we got the strips that addressed this very topic a week or two ago, but evidently people in the comments here have goldfish memory.

Sajuuk-Khar

Raidah also apparently is not only under the self-delusion that this protest was THE protest that would break the Bulmerian regime, she also believes Joyce controls the media and its coverage of her rather than of the protest proper

Corronchilejano

She never asked for anyone to make a big deal out of it.

Sajuuk-Khar

God all of this co-signed one million times!!!!

Lea

Hookay...now I know THAT key sends, instead of doing a line break! Okay. I just can't help but wonder... If Joyce had been at this protest with Joe (to warn Jocelyn), and had, near the end of the protest, kissed Joe... Would ANY of this happened? Would anyone even bother to snap a photo of Joyce's kiss? Would anyone even think to put it on the cover of the newspaper? Would anyone try to blame Joyce for "Making the Bulmerian protest all about HERSELF!"? Sure, I don't think anyone is really INTENDING to be homophobic here or fault Joyce for coming out as gay/lesbian/bisexual... ...but when it comes down to it, would Joyce be getting even HALF this flack if she'd attended the protest with Joe, kissed Joe, otherwise interacted with her heterosexual relationship, compared to what's happened because she attended with Dorothy instead? Completely aside from the cheating part (because that's separate and would've been just as right/wrong if she'd kissed a guy or a girl just about anywhere else - still cheating, not dependent on being at a protest)...what did Joyce do wrong about the protest, that doesn't come down to being intrinsically related to her lesbian leanings?

Sajuuk-Khar

LMAO that probably is more what Joyce is thinking!!! GOD! Raidah you’re so bad at everything communication-wise!!!!

Grace Serenity

And seemingly Raidah's social circle has also exploded, given Billie and Asher both leaving it

Shane Wegner

I also get a sense of Frank Grimes (or “Grimey” as he -liked- to be called) not wanting Homer to be able to stumble through life with unearned good fortune just because he’s a main character and has plot armor. Hey wait a minute. If Joyce got some comeuppance and consequences it would probably give Raidah some mean spirited catharsis. But if that comeuppance comes from say, religious fundamentalists oppressing Joyce from being a school teacher, surely Raidah considers herself against such oppression. Or does she loathe Joyce so much she’d make an exception? What Raidah doesn’t understand is Joyce has lived her entire life under that. She’s pre-cumuppanced. And it goes a long way to her being the way she is now. If she’s cutting loose, against what? That. (I STILL don’t think this justifies Joyce stomping on everyone’s feelings just because she and Dorothy are having a rush of self discovery and sexy times. But it adds understandability.)

Logibear

Straight up never considered that entrenching herself might be her defence mechanism. You bring up a lot of good points here

Laura

yes i hadn't considered this perspective at all, thanks for posting!!

Sajuuk-Khar

Dorothy isn’t doing that! Dorothy isn’t here for a reason! Dorothy is very dumb and baby but please leave her out of Joyce’s obvious one woman dumbassery oml

Grace Serenity

And it gives her an excuse to dunk on Joyce. It's her favorite pastime right after dunking on Sarah!

tifani

I’m going to bed.

C

You certainly could be right, we could see a deeper side to Raidah soon (and honestly, with the shifts post the Protest controversy...I expect we will). ...But Raidah has done some miserable, mean-spirited stuff throughout this comic, without too much to show it's a part of a bigger picture. I'm more than willing to be receptive to delving further into Raidah's character and seeing the good parts of her. But it still seems mean in the moment.

Sajuuk-Khar

tifani: this is not a zero-sum game. No one is a “winner” here. Obviously what Joyce said is dumb and bad. She is being a dumb baby. Raidah failed to communicate *literally anything of substance*. All she did was run up, tell Joyce “you’re going to get hurt for being a minority! Ssssss!!! Fuck you!” and then dash off going “you did a sin!!! figure it out!!!” That’s not anything! Obviously it’s not Raidah’s job to educate her, but if you’re going to prosecute someone, if you’re going to lay out a case or make them learn fucking anything, that is not how you do it!! that’s not anything except yelling at someone and going off self-satisfied!

Shane Wegner

“ Omae wa mou shindeiru” “Nani??!!” (Beat) ::explodes in arterial sprays::

Grace Serenity

@lupin If you have to ask if Joyce is chaotic or not, you haven't been paying attention! She's actually the avatar for Anansi, Loki, Coyote, and Sheogorath all in one! (:

Lea

@Tifani: If Raidah is not trying to shame Joyce... (Per her own statement) ...then what is Raidah trying to do here? Now, how successful was Raidah at that goal? I can't think of a whole lot of ways that "Walking away refusing to spell things out for X any clearer" is a WINNING move in...any situation that someone's making a true effort in. But maybe that's the lifelong educator in me. If I want people to grow, improve, do better, be better...I need to be willing to spell out HOW. My old boss would say critically of some people: "Common sense is a flower that doesn't bloom in every person's garden" (i.e. "They're a moron.") My response was "Then as educators, we should be planting common sense seeds, tilling the soil of the mind, fertilizing, pruning, watering, managing sunlight and shade." Be the change you want to see, and all that. All I've ever seen from Raidah is judgement, condemnation, spite, disgust, condescension, general smarminess, and various prejudices. In my experience...those don't improve squat.

Shane Wegner

Yes…ha ha ha YES. I guess threatening to send in troops if they voted for the other guy didn’t move New Yorkers as much as they imagined. Weird!

Jayne Lindgren

The irony is that in accusing Joyce of "making everything about her(self)" and ruining the protest, they are essentially doing the exact same thing by placing all agency and importance on Joyce's actions.

Sajuuk-Khar

Smoochie I think you have a baller analysis on Raidah’s motives, yes she seeks the insulation of power for righteous reasons, YES she believes she’s doing the right thing, but I would ask you to allow for perspectives other than the straw man of “others just think Raidah is an evil bitch who hates queer love” like perhaps the perspective of “Raidah is so stupid she thinks she can designate people as avatars of the world’s vile systems and then stake them like vampires”

Sajuuk-Khar

Raidah is literally the meme performative activist yelling “IT’S NOT MY JOB TO EDUCATE YOU” at a bystander who has no idea what’s going on

Sajuuk-Khar

You’re very correct about the rest of it I just was like “no no no Dotty doesn’t own this stupid bullshit of Joyce’s!!!” lmao

Sajuuk-Khar

@I Know Why the Mowed Lawn Screams: I have been fully converted to Jennidah. If for no other reason than maybe the two of them colliding with each other’s stupidity will create something smart. oh my god they’re. so dumb.

Waifu Purplebutt

EXACTLY! It's literally everyone BUT Joyce and Dorothy making the protest about their kiss!

tifani

Wait no. Can’t. Last word not bothering to @ figure it out if you care to: Narcissistic behavior does not equal narcissist. I’m not going to write a post diagnosing someone as a narcissist hours after I said “hey don’t do that” to someone else. Second of all: if you don’t get what’s self destructive about Joyce’s behavior in the last three days I have no idea what to tell you. Also a bisexual awakening does not require or justify any of this bullshit and no one brought up men so why are you?….Now I go to bed.

Astariel

Please, her only purpose in life has been to hurt Joyce for like four months now.

Astariel

She wants revenge on Joyce for breaking up her and Jacob.

Astariel

@Smoochie - Except Raidah hasn't made that point. Nowhere in these two strips has she said that. All she's said is that Joyce will suffer for being gay and that she deserves it, because Raidah doesn't give a shit about the protest or the genocide, she just wants revenge on the girl who stole her boyfriend.

Astariel

No, she's at least as evil as Mary.

Smoochie

@Sajuuk I’m not saying that’s the -only- perspective I’m taking in, but I do see how I might come off yes. So fair—Raidah has spent so long at this that she sees people as flat, and lives the sort of ‘when all you have is a hammer’ mindset. Possibly even ‘no true and permanent allies outside your own community’.

Tessea

Yes Raidah, I should apologize for falling in love and being happy with myself for a change. it's clearly a major character flaw that I unknowingly had my photo taken and it being put on the front of a student newspaper. I am obviously a horrible person. Now let me finish my self-admonishment ice cream in peace.

Katrina Marie Paton

Maybe she hasn't processed it because she never imagined she was in the first place. Besides, she already KNOWS she's not the center of the universe, to her that'd be Dorothy.

Amós Batista

Raidah, you better to walk away: you lost this one and you will keep losing with Joyce today.

Katrina Marie Paton

Raidah has very good reasons to dislike Joyce for her past behaviour, has not seen any of Joyces personal growth and certainly isn't under any obligation to be nice to her. I'm not trying to say you're wrong, I agree with you that she COULD have handled this differently, but most people don't treat someone else badly for no reason and Raidah, imo, has very good reasons.

HenryVolt

To be honest I thought she was going to respond and instead say "That's the only thing you did."

Amós Batista

this comment and today strip have a lot of layers and maybe I need to read it again

Uniquitous

@Corron tbf she just was trying to get Lucy to do that the other day. She wants people to make a big deal of it, because it's a big life changing wonderful deal for her. It's about fair to middlin' at best for everyone else though, and that's what she doesn't see. That's my take anyway.

Smoochie

@C Oh yeah, I absolutely acknowledge that Raidah is a miserable person with her own biases. I was just rolling with what I think that could be borne of. Especially in spaces where we all check each other, sometimes unnecessarily.

Sajuuk-Khar

@Smoochie: it strikes me you were also probably responding to my initial befuddlement. my non-medicated ADHD and I beg pardon, I didn’t mean to get huffy if I came off that way. Buttttt you do uh, kind of see how Raidah being so bad at sincere concern that I couldn’t parse her concern underlines my point? lmaooo 😅

Smoochie

See now THIS is what I think is where the real insult lays. She’s aware that this now makes Joyce part of the same struggle, but the pettiest and cruelest thing (and in the view of some, the realest) Raidah can do is entreat an ex-fundie who only growing into this bit by bit, with a brick wall.

William Lewis

We are not reading the same comic.

Katrina Marie Paton

@tifani go watch Romeo and Juliet. People do dumb shit for love and it rarely makes sense to the people on the outside looking in. Hopefully this time no one is going to die. So what if Joyce wants to scream at the world, or in this case Raidah, "Screw you all, I'm in love and I don't care what you think! For the first time in my life I feel strengthened and vindicated by who I am, not oppressed by other people's expectations and it feels amazing!" There'll be time for regrets tomorrow but right now she's living for today and I feel that's fair enough. Clearly you have a very different take on it and that's fine too. Hell, I'm probably wrong anyway, I've been wrong before. But I DON'T think I'm wrong in claiming there is no way Joyce is ever going to agree with you that this wasn't necessary, it was if anything the most necessary thing she's ever done.

William Lewis

It is not self destructive to finally accept who you really are. If you are someone who has never had to deal with that, perhaps you might not understand why that is so.

Smoochie

@Astariel You infer that Raidah doesn’t care about any of these things and all that matters is getting a verbal smacking on Joyce right? In the same token, I’m inferring that Raidah does probably care about those things, and from her POV she thinks she’s right about Joyce because Joyce is the one who doesn’t care about any of those things.

Smoochie

@Sajuuk-Khar Water under the bridge. Yes Raidah is terrible at being sincere as far we can tell and yes her bias is colored by what Joyce has done to her in the past. I just want to make clear I don’t think YOU are saying that genocide as an allegory is a ho-hum thing. No, no. I’m saying more that, for Raidah it may be everything. We can’t be sure, because our views of her are tinted without considering why she does what she does (-hand waves back to our talk on Raidah insulating herself with power-) Sorry if I may have sounded like I was accusing you of anything.

Sajuuk-Khar

No no no we cool we cool. I getchu.

Sajuuk-Khar

she really isn’t. Mary is an actual factual fascist. Mary wants to put people in camps. Mary thinks the evil of the modern day is righteous. Mary IS as stupid as Raidah, but she is genuinely an evil person. Raidah wants a better world she’s just never going to be the one to get it because she’s convinced that cruelty is the way because she’s fucking dummmmbb

Sajuuk-Khar

She’s still got Carl! You know, the guy who was banging her probable gay crush!

The Axolartl

This. The longer this feud with Joyce goes on the more I think Raidah did genuinely view Jacob as the perfect package: someone she genuinely liked and cared about, AND someone that if she got close to them could benefit her in a material way. Unfortunately I don't see her admitting this any time soon, otherwise she probably would've just called Joyce a cheating skank to her face and been done with it, which atp is just as petty but is at least more of an actual insult than this

Sajuuk-Khar

Tifani I want to say this very gently: you have an agenda in literally every post you make and it is centered around the evil of Joyce’s infidelity to Joe, it makes it impossible to take like any of your paragraphs in good faith without balancing it out with a huge block of salt

Sajuuk-Khar

That would be too coherent.

Sajuuk-Khar

IF RAIDAH NEVER LEARNS ANYTHING AND TRIES THIS IN LAW PRACTICE/MOCK TRIALS, A BIT Raidah: *walking up to do opening remarks, arms folded across her chest* …People of the jury. How do you all feel about The Handmaid’s Tale? *beat* Raidah: Because I bet you’re all BIG FANS. Fucking disgusting. You probably DROOL at the idea of being part of Gilead, huh?! You’re all thirsty for a public drowning, you fucking creeps! Especially JOYCE over here, who thinks she’d still get away with kissing girls on the side! Stupid bitch! Judge: …Counselor, are you aware you are not supposed to— Raidah: Whatever, your honor! My client: NOT GUILTY! Boom! Defense fucking rests! DA’s Office Sarah: … Raidah: Oh BY THE WAY, ADA Clinton is a USER. She USES people!

Terra Bruder

More bad takes. It's not that she was heroically gay. It's that she was mundanely gay in a world where _being mundanely gay_ routinely gets people killed. She did that despite having been gaslit her entire life about the consequences for her immortal soul. What happened with Joe is between her and Joe. All of these other nosy-ass people are doing exactly the same thing cishet people usually do in this case: centering their own opinions and making it about themselves. Source: Lost nearly everyone in my life over this. And if I need remind you, at no point did Joyce seek the spotlight or the protest. She went to someplace outside of her comfort zone to warn her sister.

Zoya

i'll say it less gently: touch grass lol

Sajuuk-Khar

It’s from the IU cafeteria, Harold, how good can it be

Miquashi

The failure to learn to recenter the conversation off of herself and back to the actual reason for the protest is painful. Two white women kissing is apparently the most important thing people are taking away from this protest about the school funding a genocide. Why is no one still talking about that? "Nothing could possibly matter more than that" is just leaning into being self centered and possibly the most insensitive take away from that protest she could have. Learning when and how to decenter herself will aide her greatly.

zee

People are dying, Kim...

zee

I'd still say a fucking genocide matters more than some Midwestern white women smooching

zee

Girl you weren't heroically gay, you were gay with bad timing

zee

I mean she should probably apologize for saying her white american ass being gay is more important than babies getting bombed. Because saying "I was heroically gay, nothing matters more than that" in the context of a protest about that is literally what that means

zee

Jesus Christ this is the first thing Joyce has said that's actually personally upset me since. Fuck i dont even know when, ever possibly. God i think the caucasity of that statement is actually triggering. Yeah, ending up on the front page of the paper wasn't her responsibility. But fucking Christ girl, you were at a protest about an ethnic cleansing. You can't say your white queerness is more important than anything else in they context. To a muslim woman. I am begging you for an ounce of self awareness. I just- god that is a disgusting level of literal self centeredness. I'm genuinely sickened by that statement, that is horrifying. I don't think the survivors guilt from the hurricane is helping. And the people immediately rushing to defend it- ugh. I might actually have to take a break for the first time in 12 years of reading if her ass doesn't get set straight expeditiously (and before some bad faith asshole tries some shit I obviously don't mean straight as I'm heterosexual). Fuck man....

zee

The feelings of white women have taken priority over the lives and safety of black and brown people for centuries Fuck me i dont even have it in me to write an essay about why this is so wrong. You should know already. Someone else do it I need to stop thinking about this strip before I start crying or throw up. Donate to Palestinian initiatives, donate to help Western Jamaica recover from the hurricane. Zohran won, yay.

kat

Y'all, this is a comic about kids in college learning and growing as people. I wasn't perfect at that age, nor am I now. Maybe let's wait to see how they respond to adversity and what lessons they learn before getting mad?

Ilana Feldman

Well, on the plus side, I'm pretty sure Joyce is down to about every 1 in 7 things she says being the worst possible thing she could say.

tifani

@sajuuk: I’m going to say this as nicely as I can: You are completely misinterpreting my entire point and creating this agenda you claim I have. It is perfectly okay for you to just say we are not in the same wavelength and you are having trouble understanding my point. But attaching some kind of morality or judgment to my words is unfair. It does not exist. I am doing nothing but interpreting this story through the lens of a close reading. I would argue I’m one of the few people here being unbiased in my interpretations because I’m not letting affection for Joyce which believe me or not I do have get in the way of me giving this subject matter the consideration it deserves. At this point I am beyond over coming here and trying to actually TALK about these characters and this story without it turning into a back and forth where everything I say is twisted into the most bad faith interpretation possible. You were one of the few I felt like I could talk to so all of this? Hugely disappointing. But I guess it’s also moot. Until something shifts (and I’m begging you guys to shift something because a lot of you are way too smart for the conclusions you’re jumping to) I’m not sharing my thoughts here anymore. It’s exhausting. My tumblr is anatomicalhearteyes anyone who wants can follow me there. TTFN.

tifani

@zoya Who even are you?

Riley Aurelia

@DramaQueen sure, but that was an absolute non-factor in why she did it. Unless I'm mistaken, Joyce knows pretty much nothing about the Bulmerian genocide, and she certainly wasn't trying to make a political statement by kissing Dorothy. It was just a convenient set dressing for her to prove how devoted she was to Dorothy.

tifani

Since a few people clearly don’t understand what I’m doing in these posts… What some readers think I’m doing: issuing moral judgments, “hating” a character, or taking fiction personally. What I’m actually doing: textual analysis. I’m examining narrative framing, motivation, and consequence — the mechanics that reveal what the story itself is saying. When I say Joyce is wrong, that isn’t moral outrage; it’s narrative literacy. The comic is explicitly showing the dissonance between her self-image and her behavior. I’m describing what the text is doing, not projecting how I feel about it. This is the difference between emotional empathy and analytical empathy. Most readers respond through identification — “I relate to her, so she must be right.” I respond through comprehension — “I understand her reasoning, which is why I can see where it collapses.” I’m not passing judgment; I’m tracing design. This is close reading — an attention to structure, tone, and authorial intent. If it comes across as cold, that’s because my attention is on function, not sentiment. I’m not here to cheer for fictional people; I’m here to understand how the story constructs meaning. Some of you aren’t here for that, and that’s fine. But maybe we can chalk this up to neurotypical vs. neurodivergent communication differences and leave it there — instead of repeating the same cycle where I’m turned into a scapegoat for your misplaced… confusion? Frustration? Whatever emotional static this brings up when you encounter someone reading differently than you do. Whatever the case, I’m very much not interested in the role I seem to be being assigned, and will respectfully not be playing it. Buhbye bitches💋

Andrew Murphy

@tifani: you, and all the other brilliant, insightful, and/or just plain cool commenters here and on the main comic, are why "reading the comments" here is not the absolutely disastrous decision that it would be just about anywhere else :).

Amós Batista

It's a necessary comment. Keep going

Sajuuk-Khar

She keeps turning out real bangers in the idiot department, so obviously the supply MUST run out sometime

Amós Batista

I'm sorry about this. Take your time. Thank you for saying what was bothering me since I read this strip.

Harold

@Astariel: I'm not a fan of Raidah, but Jesus Christ, can we dial that back just a little?

Sajuuk-Khar

@Smoochie: The more I think about it the more true this rings. Raidah thinks she’s driven the blade home, that anything else would be a waste of breath on this obvious idiot, but all that’s really happened is a total failure to communicate. Joyce has no real concept of why this matters! She’s ignorant, not stupid!

Albi

Right with you buddy. I wanna smack Joyce!!

Amós Batista

If Willis did this consciously, I'll give him a kiss. And I believe your comment should be pinned.

Sajuuk-Khar

Yo like as a fellow reader I think maybe a break would do a lot of good, especially in that kind of situation and mindset, like, this comic should be fun to read, not painful :< You’re of course right that what Joyce is saying is stupid and thoughtless, that’s kind of part of the point, it’s just obviously hitting very different for you through no fault of your own and I have sympathy. IDK. :<

zee

Astariel whenever a brown woman does something they don't like:

Dmitri0240

I think a few things need to be made clear: 1) Raidah doesn't actually care about the protest. For her, this is just ammunition to use against someone she doesn't like. "Centering the conversation on the genocide" would have been appropriate with Asma, but with Radiah it would be futile. (And in my mind, Joyce and Dorothy did try to center their conversation with Asma on the actual purpose of the protest; it was Asma who kept derailing it to speak more generally.) 2) Dorothy was in legitimate crisis; emotionally and physically. Joyce's decision to run back into a violent situation to tell and show Dorothy that she felt the same way may not have literally saved Dorothy's life, but it was the only thing she could do at that time to protect someone she loves. That's not the flavor of heroism that's needed to stop an ethnic cleansing, but it is heroism nonetheless. Joyce should have just walked away; there's no way to salvage a relationship with Raidah nor any reason she should want to. Attempting to argue with her in good faith is just going to give her more ammunition, or increase the odds that a third party overhears something they don't have the full context to understand. Joyce isn't wrong here, but it should have been something she said in a shower argument, not loudly in public. (Edited spelling of Raidah's name)

Astariel

@zee - Fuck off with the racism accusations. If you think being a brown woman makes someone immune to being an asshole, you're the one with the problem.

Astariel

Joyce hasn't done anything her in that time. (The thing with Jacob was before that.)

Astariel

Well said. I think you summed it up exactly.

Astariel

@Smoochie - I mean, sure, that's a valid reading, I just don't see support for it here. She doesn't even mention the protest in this strip or yesterdays.

Astariel

I don't think Raidah wants a better world at all, unless you define a better world as one in which Raidah has all the power. Which really is just what Mary wants as well. They both think they know best for everyone and that they should be able to dictate everyone's behavior, and that anyone who opposes them should be destroyed. Besides, Mary at this point is really just a buffoon. She hasn't accomplished anything other than a few snarky remarks since she got smacked down over the Ruth/Billie situation. She half-heartedly tried to get Joyce to be transphobic and failed completely, then showed up to counter-protest with a sign she failed to notice had been changed to make fun of herself. This doesn't make her less evil, per se, but she's become such a clown that it's hard to take her seriously. Whereas Raidah is very serious and a lot smarter than Mary. I suspect she's being set up as an arc villain analogous to Blaine & ToeDad from the first decade of the comic.

SkittleE

Okay, so my first assumption was that Joyce is thinking about jumping on the dad grenade for Jocelyne (wherein his relatively mild reaction was completely unexpected) when talking about being heroically gay. Raidah doesn't know about it, so Joyce sounds dumb and insensitive as hell, but that was still a really significant moment in her life that happened Literally That Morning. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I'm reasonably sure that Joyce doesn't think getting outed via picture taken at a protest that she barely knows the first thing about is heroic.

Vivian

Based on Raidah's conversation with Daisy, I think you may not be correct about point 1

Rob McBobson

I'm open to the idea that Raidah does care about the protest, at least a little. I know she's a douche, but I don't think it's automatically impossible for her to care about things other than herself, especially since it gives her ammo against someone she dislikes. Like, maybe she does feel that the protest is justified but she just doesn't care enough to be an activist. Even douchebags can care about things sometimes, right? The fact that she's usually been presented as 100% douchebag so far doesn't mean she can have no other parts of her personality. EDIT: What I'm getting at is, a lot of the time, people seem to assume Raidah is solely selfish for, well, tautological reasons. The message seems to be "Raidah can't actually care about the protest for real, because Raidah cannot care about things for real. While she did act as if she does care about the protest, she can't have really cared, because Raidah can't care about things for real." I mean... Of course she's gonna seem uncaring if we discard every instance where she does seem to care.

5099 5618 v2.0

Q1: Who does Joyce think would give out such a medal? Q2: Would Dorothy also receive one? Q3: Why would either of them *need* such a thing?

Sajuuk-Khar

1.) The Gay Secular Angels of the No-God 2.) Unclear at this time. 3.) Gay Prestige

Sajuuk-Khar

I did not create anything, I have closely read your comments for the past several weeks and I have noticed the majority concern the following: -when will Joe be back in the story? -when will Joe and Joyce talk polyamory? -Joyce and Dorothy’s infidelity (negative) and its effect on men in the cast -Sarah’s outsize reaction, (centered on Joe’s feelings) was good and proper actually, if anything she didn’t go far enough -the costs and problems of the infidelity and how it will affect Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship -Joyce is delusional!/spiraling!/rationalizing!/“screaming like a lunatic”! -Joyce has “burned down her life” I did not create this pattern, Tifani, I merely noticed it. I have not wanted to say much because I dislike confrontation and shit but like, you got very aggro at Queen for a reasonable statement and wanted to know why she brought up being centered on men, so I thought you should probably hear, neutrally, that this is a pattern and how that pattern reads, lmao That’s all I got

Edwin I Callahan

But that’s not what she is saying. She’s talking about coming out and embracing her feelings about Dorothy. That the process started at the protest doesn’t have that much to do with the protest, other than it was triggered by Dorothy plunging back into the action because she was so sick of playing it safe.

5099 5618 v2.0

@tifani (Also, how's your book coming along? I only read a little bit of it, when you posted the link, but I enjoyed what I saw. (/Cheering for you) )

Ph

I know this is a comic about kids' misunderstandings of each other, but the whole talking-past-each-other thing (especially with the incoming Alice/Sal mixup) is getting a bit old in this storyline for me. Maybe the original pacing would have worked but the post hoc insertion of character appearances, and using the same trick for both cases is a lot. I hope this moves forward tomorrow.

Empress of Robots

Since Raidah hasn't been shown to care about the protest per se (I'm going to go out on a limb that despite Raidah sucking as a person, she is probably ideologically alligned with the protest was TRYING to accomplish), those last two panels feel ominous. I'm worried Raidah is up to something. Maybe pulling a Sarah and calling one of Joyce's parents (Carol). It's not like Carol belongs to a group that has funded kidnapping and terrorism against the gay child of another cult member before, right?!

Dmitri0240

I'm not going to give Raidah a ton of credit if she cares about the protest only enough to complain that people who were actually there were doing it wrong. To me, that just reeks of "of course, I'm against police brutality, but 'Black Lives Matter' and 'Defund the Police' weren't properly market tested for broad appeal so therefore I'm going to complain about the slogans rather than stand with the movement" energy. If instead of Joyce and Dorothy making out, the front page of the paper had been a big picture of Asma framed so she's in front of a virulently antisemitic sign that someone else was holding and which Asma never saw, would Raidah have stood by Asma? Or would she have given her a big "talk less, befriend powerful people more" lecture and extol herself for having the wisdom to stay home and not put herself in such risk? We'll never know for certain, but I have a very strong suspicion. In Raidah's conversation with Asma and Alice she spent the whole time complaining about Joyce, and even in talking with Daisy she took care to stress "these two girls", not just "two girls" or "two people". I stand by my reading of Raidah's intentions, even if she is occasionally clever in disguising those intentions depending on the audience.

C

Reflecting on the strip more, the entire reading of this strip and Joyce's character really comes down to one important detail: Is Joyce talking about the protest in this moment, or how she outed herself to her own father to protect Jocelyne? Because the latter reads far better than the former (though Raidah wouldn't know about that incident and would definitely be assuming it's the former).

tifani

Okay, there’s nothing really left for you to say to me then. I’ve stated my perspective clearly repeatedly in multiple comments and you have chosen to disregard it. So I don’t see any value to either of us in continuing this back and forth.

I Know Why the Mowed Lawn Screams

fuck me i keep trying to leave my bigass comment in a way that is readable and fucking it up, so YKW i’ll just post + link it tomorrow when the strip is public. the tl;dr tho for now is that i need people to understand that you actually dont get any fucking clout for being a muslim woman in america and i need people who are characterizing Raidah’s feelings and relationship to a very politicized aspect of her identity as “fake” to stop

Ilana Feldman

Raidah did not mention the protest at any point and Joyce said that this was the first day when the protest was yesterday, so good odds on the latter. But man, is this not a good look for her regardless.

razboy

Raidahs a jerk but she definitely still cares, this seems like something that directly affects her. From Raidah's perspective the white girl who stole her boyfriend at the request of Sarah (Raidah's ex-friend who she considers betrayed her and her friends) just co-opted the entire narrative of the protest from Bulmerian Genocide, Police Brutality, and the Silencing of non-white voices, into White Gay time (which is used by the ruling class to absolve themselves of guilt for participating in those same crimes above). Yes shes also using it as revenge, but if we are allowed to forgive Joyce for being imperfect over and over we are clearly allowed to forgive Raidah when she at least has a valid point like this.

Dmitri0240

I'll also add that it should be mentioned that Joyce is responding to Raidah as though she is an actual individual, rather than treating her as "generic Muslim lady". I'm not saying Raidah should be grateful. If anything, she's probably annoyed because she had a good "You think you can assume my perspective on the matter just because of my faith?! Do you even know my faith, or are you just presuming based on the color of my skin?!" lined up. But I do think that's more than can be said for some of the discussion here.

Sajuuk-Khar

I am interested to read the big-ass comment (if the main site will let me instead of replacing the whole main page with an AutoTrader Dot Com ad) tomorrow and I suspect I agree with it—I would also like to add, for anyone still skeptical, they should observe Raidah’s communication skills re: things she cares deeply about vs. things she doesn’t. When she doesn’t care about something, Raidah is really great at performing tolerance and understanding, letting it wash off her. See the brunch, where she doesn’t care about the shenanigans going on around her or most of the people there: she’s perfectly composed, like she’s at a job interview. This, running up on Joyce to hiss invective at her and then scramble for the best last word? This isn’t composed, this is just a big “FUCK YOU” because when she really cares about something Raidah doesn’t know how to express things “properly”, and so she lashes out and becomes incapable of effective communication.

SkittleE

Anyway petition for Patreon to make the bongo filter an available feature for comment sections

ArdieBea

I think Raidah's conversation with Daisy shows that she does have a personal stake in this and does care about the protest per se; for her it's not about ambition. It may actually be the single thing that isn't, so she's definitely reacting to that. Regardless of what Joyce is thinking of (and I think she's probably thinking of 'performing iconic imagery' at the protest, since Raidah has raised the newspaper image) I can't help but see that as her main motivation here. Also, let's not discount the hurt of Jacob breaking up with her. I think it's reasonable to assume that while she saw Jacob as a good choice in terms of her ambitions, can you imagine what it would be like to be on the receiving end of his romantic affections? He's shown as a thoughtful, kind, and enthusiastic lover. Even if those weren't the qualities that Raidah chose him for, enjoying and then losing that definitely hurt. The fact that it was over Joyce was salt to the wound. So, yeah, I can see why Raidah is incoherently pissed at this point. Doesn't excuse her actions, but makes this scene understandable.

Tsa

I didn't say radish was correct

Vivian

Refreshing intensifies

Sajuuk-Khar

Joyce’s whole deal here absolutely does need to be course corrected in a hurry, like, I love her but that sentiment is so so so sooo stupid no matter what she’s talking about I think she probably means the incident with coming out to her dad, or I want to at any rate? But even then! It cannot be stressed enough that Joyce thinking she has broken the shell of the world-egg with her queer identity and now she is the Bisexual Phoenix Goddess, perfected and new and flawless, is just. Fucking dumb. (Also of course ties back to Calvinist-Evangelical brain poisoning about being Born Again, because of course it does. I suspect this is going to be a rake Joyce steps on for years to come, secular milestones as a new form of being one of the Elect.)

Tessea

Remember why Joyce went to the protest? She was there to find her sister. From her point of view, nothing she did had any connection to the purpose of the protest. it was the newspaper that made that connection. Yes, Joyce is a bit oblivious to how people might perceive it, but Raidah's still out of line in acting like Joyce set it all up for the attention. Joyce is just trying to enjoy her newfound self confidence.

Sajuuk-Khar

This big-ass comment is good and righteous Like I spilled a lot of computer ink on how Raidah is stupid yesterday but it’s in the context of how Joyce is also stupid, they are two stupid young people talking stupidly to each other and not communicating at all, but Raidah’s feelings come from a very clearly raw and real place in this case. It is foolish and wrong to believe (as I once did!) that all of her is manufactured for clout.

C

Appreciate the post, it's very important to remember where her perspective is coming from on this subject, and that her flaws don't negate that. There's a lot of anger and frustration in Joyce and Raidah's interactions, and we're seldom at our best when feeling those feelings.

Rob McBobson

I can't read that post since, for my own sanity's sake, I promised myself to stay here and not keep up with any other comments sections anymore, but for the sake of fairness I will say that your basic point is clearly a valid one.

C.T. Phipps

I mean isn't her being insensitive the point of the strip and Raidah's statement?

C.T. Phipps

I think the point is Joyce doesn't care about the protest or what it was protesting save how it offended Asma. She doesn't understand or really care about how it affected the larger cause.

Sumit

closed eyes, gay hearts, can't lose?

Tessea

It was not Joyce's fault that the photo 'supposedly' derailed the conversation (this isn't the new york times. How many people outside the school are reading it?), there's just a lot of assumption that it had. Raidah needs to go complain to the person who put the photo so prominantly on the front page, Daisy. Oh wait, she did. And Asma. And this isn't even Raidah's first go at Joyce on the subject of the protest. When Joyce and Dorothy first got back from the protest, Rahdah mocked them for even going, assuming it was for attention because they were younger than her and white. "I'm cynical about white freshmen" I honestly think Raidah just wants to be angry and the newspaper photo just gave her an excuse to take it further.

Maude Reads Things

Honestly, I probably am being harsh here because of course Joyce doesn't want to feel bad about any part of that moment but. Yeah. It had inadvertent but bad consequences she doesn't want to accept and that's hard even when you're not rapidly deconstructing. I am mad at her though and this is a recurring frustration I have with her so :P

Dmitri0240

The more of the consensus opinion I read about Joyce/Raidah, the more I feel like I read a different set of comics than others. Joyce is standing by herself. Then, Raidah comes over to blast her with unapologetic homophobia. Raidah, who had only ever treated Joyce with derision and contempt even before the Jacob thing. Raidah, who has spent a year trying to socially destroy Sarah for doing the right-but-hard thing regarding a mutual friend. Raidah, who doesn't even seem to hold homophobic views herself, but is just using it as an excuse to be cruel. And somehow, the correct and moral thing that Joyce should know she should do is change the topic of conversation away from the things Raidah has actually said and done, to something she and Raidah have never spoken about, based purely on the assumption that Raidah must care about it because she's Muslim? One of the things I appreciate about this comic is that in a large and diverse cast, no one is relegated to being merely "good representation". No matter which marginalized groups a character may belong to, they are still allowed a unique set of vices and virtues. Joyce is not a paragon of unspoiled virtue designed to teach the audience "see, queer autistic women are just like you, the imagined median reader!"; she's a 19-year-old mess whose brain isn't fully formed yet, who is still regularly learning how wrong she is about fundamental aspects of herself, who also happens to be queer and autistic. Retconning away Raidah's hard edges just because she's Muslim would be taking away her character, devolving her into an expository device to teach the imagined median reader things they should know already. And at least to me, that would be the greater disrespect, both to the character and the readers.

T Campbell

That's USUALLY how this strip tends to go, but this strip really seems to read like Joyce in her hubris should be listening to the Muslim who's a victim just by being an American. What you're saying is why it feels out of place to me.