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The 12th Bureau of China's spy agency, the Ministry of State Security (MSS), is not your typical clandestine spy operation. Officers of MSS's 12 bureau operate in the public eye. Rather than stealing state secrets, they seek to influence public opinion on China, which is why it's made up of a coterie of of academics, artists and business people. In this episode of China Unscripted, we talk about how China has been using the 12th bureau to shape the international conversation on China, examples of public figures it has co-opted, and some of the tactics it uses to co-opt them. Joining us in this episode is Alex Joske, the author of "Spies and Lies: How China's Greatest Covert Operations Fooled the World". You can buy 'Spies and Lies: How China's Greatest Covert Operations Fooled the World" at https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/spies-and-lies-alex-joske/1141413263 Don't forget to subscribe to the channel and hit that bell icon to get notified when new videos come out: https://bit.ly/3u1eKSZ And check out our other channel China Uncensored: https://youtube.com/channel/UCgFP46yVT-GG4o1TgXn-04Q Merchandise: https://www.chinaunscripted.com/merchandise Our website: https://www.chinaunscripted.com YouTube demonetizes our videos, which is why we rely on support from viewers like you. Please join our 50¢ army at: https://www.patreon.com/chinaunscripted https://www.chinauncensored.locals.com https://www.chinaunscripted.com/support Our social media: Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/ChinaUncensored Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChinaUncensored Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ChinaUncensored #China

Comments

Tony Chopkoski

I have read the book. Joske does seem like a...depressive at times. Not exactly a member of the Wild Bunch. But worth the read..and don't get down when he is depressed.

Tony Chopkoski

The pieces of shit in the US captured by the MSS, usually crap business me (ie, those with their heads up their asses...(like who would vote for Soros for Dog Catcher...), but Joske is part of the very nuanced upper class attitudes in Australia, which are not as fluid as the US, class wise. And the Chinese mistake is that they think getting these losers (as I think them) will put them on some Divine Wind. Not. That is the Great thing about American Democracy.

Tony Chopkoski

Too bad he did not get into the American business leaders hung up on wokser thoughts...and their relations to China.

Tony Chopkoski

15:00...Musk as a turncoat? More like a sneak playing the stupid Chinese. Who else has such a good business deal? I think he is well enough clever.

Tony Chopkoski

You will note that he quotes from Mattis and Brazil and their encyclopedic work on Chinese Spies. But he adds one they seem to have missed for whatever reason. I'll let you guess who that is...but Joske mentions them quite often and M and B are silent here. Must be new material.

Tony Chopkoski

OK, OK, I'll tell you who it is...Zheng Bejian...Joske gives a good descript on page 96. This Zheng seems to have been such a perfect spy that very few knew he was, even in China. Joske mentions him at least 8 times.

Tony Chopkoski

25:40 Matt on China...and just this morning my Chinese wife tells me she heard on WeChat a piece by an Indian (India) journalist saying China was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's people were so well off. The rest of the world should be like them. It does not stop. Ugh....

Tony Chopkoski

Yup, the Chicom's use electronic media...rarely a book cause it can be too easily seen as lies.

Tony Chopkoski

40:20 Here is where Joske is really depressive. Give me some numbers of Westerners kissing the asses of MSS non-spies...really. Try it. Maybe 10 year olds...

Tony Chopkoski

42:15 And after Taiwan falls comes the Philippines, Australia, etc. Not really. If Taiwan is attacked (Chinese fighters entered the Defense Zone today...) it will be a long drawn out war. The Chinese have learned nothing from Russia. what do you expect with Generals who bought their ranks. Now, I know how my wife's first husband hid from the police while faking he was a PLA officer right in Beijing. It's just rotten all over behind the scenes.

Tony Chopkoski

47:20 Hitler had the same playbook over him, Chamberlain led the way. Who is our Chamberlain? Could be Biden...could be something worse.

Tony Chopkoski

I think more satire is needed. Much more...oh, 53:30...I was living in France when the Borsico thing happened...the press loved it. Hey, but it fit fit the wokster narrative

Tony Chopkoski

Would have been great if he had the works on the CEO of a very big American company other than Soros. But, all-in-all, keeps the anti-China message going!

Tony Chopkoski

Frick, Claydermann? Under the commie wing? Could be...