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What A Cartoon Movie! - Pocahontas (Patreon)

Published:
2024-07-29 06:00:11
Imported:
2026-06
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With five years of box office success and a Best Picture nomination behind them, Disney was ready to take some big risks with their latest animated feature. A mix of actual history and myth, Pocahontas emerged in 1995 as a new kind of animated feature; one that rarely went for humor, took on racial prejudice, and dared to not have a happy ending. Nearly 30 years later, it's easy to pick out the flaws, but you can't deny the artistry and good intentions behind a film that didn't always meet its lofty goals. This month on What A Cartoon Movie, paddle just around the riverbend with us as we explore the uncharted waters of Disney's Pocahontas.

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Comments

G

So like, Lio and Stitch is going to be an 8 hour episode? 😂

Blake R.

In two-oh-two-four seven We pay the patron fee for What a Cartoon Movie pods With Bob and Henry G

Ryan O'Reilly

Peter Pan Flight still has not had Tiger Lily and the Indians removed from their attractions but it is rumored that the current Magic Kingdom refurbishment will see them removed, which we will find out about next month. In Tokyo, they’ve doubled down on this in the new Fantasy Springs ride which features Tiger Lily and the imagery very prominently, but her elders are not seen.

d doven

Nice I’m hype to listen

yethen

In regards to the amazing the FX animation of the water, I credit Joesph Gilland who was an animator and eventual supervisor of FX animation from Tarzan til Brother Bear. His books on how to animate the various elements is amazing! He is completely inspired by the water in 1940 Pinocchio. My favorite of his work is in Lilo!

Tricia

I’m pleasantly surprised at how much you guys liked the movie, maybe I’ll even lighten up on it

K-S-O

Noticed a weird audio issue around 2:58:40

David Louis

Ahhhhhh say what Bob actually likes this movie!?!?! Was so ready for a giant riffing the world has never seen :^( Oh well... 6 hours is a bountiful podcast as any thanks against guys!

Blandon

Does Ebert think Beast is the villain of Beauty and the Beast?

Talking Simpsons

There's a five-second audio glitch in the podcast, and I'm reluctant to send it back to the editor/repost it because it would likely mean deleting THIS post and making everyone download a half-gig of data again. (Also, nothing important was lost in the glitch.) So please consider this episode only 99.98% pure. - Bob

David Thomson

Henry mentioned Pocahontas in the parks. I've only been to Disneyland Paris and Walt Disney World. In Disneyland Paris when I was there, the playground area was still called "Pocahontas Indian Village" as Henry mentioned but was renamed to "Frontierland Playground" in June 2019. The main thing I think about Pocahontas in the parks from my experience was that there was a whole Pocahontas segment in the Walt Disney World version of "Fantasmic". On the three times I've seen this show this segment was there but checking now it's been replaced with a new "Heroes" segment in 2022, which does still feature Pocahontas . You can see the original segment (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGqebJ3G8FI) and the new segment (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmDYwnDaO1I) on YouTube.

Bryce Lavender

I love that you can tell when the history was recorded when yall talk politics because things have changed so fast lol

Henry Williams

500-600 yrs old the little mermaid story? Might wanna check that math Henry. I had to pause and double check in case I was unaware of an earlier story. Love the pod.

Joe Hodgson

Thirty years later, I think Pocahontas can be considered properly rated. It's historically inaccurate and a bit of a white people begging the question "Can't we all just get along?" but as a story and a film it's totally fine. Even exceptional when it comes to the animation and overall look. It's a plot letdown by its rating, but I think it does a better job of pushing past that than Mulan did. It's just that it's not as good as the films that came before it starting with The Little Mermaid. The songs are a little less catchy, the pacing a little more off, and the characters just a little less interesting. In that, I'm firmly on the side of Ebert when it comes to he and Siskel's take on the film, though I do think Siskel is correct to point out that it's fine that it's not as bubbly and happy as the other Disney films. I also find it amusing that it follows The Lion King, which is like Disney Hamlet when this is like Disney Romeo and Juliet. Of the films that followed from Disney in its 2D era, I only prefer Huncback and Lilo and Stitch to this one. Maybe The Princess and the Frog too, I have to revisit that one. And Bob, I totally relate to you and your more emotional responses to films as you get older. I could watch anything and remain stone-faced when I was younger, but now? It takes an almost embarrassingly small amount of sentimentality to make me teary-eyed, or it would be embarrassing if I was actually embarrassed by it. I chalk it up to just becoming more empathic as I age which I view as a good thing because all I ever heard growing up was that people become more cynical the older they get.

Sabrina

Pocahontas merch was huge Christmas of 95. I was 8 years old that year and I had bed sheets, a Pocahontas pottery wheel, a stuffed Meeko, and a toy recorder that came with sheet music of the soundtrack. I also remember really loving some kind of Pocahontas-branded ice cream dessert. This was my favorite movie for a very long time.

JoshuaMartian

Something about John Smiths design looks oddly flat and lifeless to me which is a risk when you attempt a more realistic, paired-down style of human animation. I can’t explain why but I always know I’m looking at a drawing rather than a living character. I don’t share Bob’s enthusiasm for this movie but I really appreciate hearing someone approach it in a more appreciative light. I prefer later attempts at more serious, human-centered, animated movies (Hunchback, Prince of Egypt) but this movie tried it first and I can applaud its ambition and overall riskiness. The history segment was especially fascinating and Bob highlighted many strong aspects of the movie I’d never considered before. Cheers!

Ethan Vaughn

I enjoyed the real-world history talk a lot! Gotta check out that book on Jonestown.

Bored Artist

Every time I see people grab donuts from any display case with their bare hands and then proceed to put them back I immediately sing: “Savages, savages, feeling up my donuts, it’s enough to make one go nuts. You make the living envy the departed as you’re the reason that Covid started. Savages, savages, feeling up the pastries, now the baker will have to waste these!”

Andrew Piovane

I work at the Jamestown Settlement Living History Museum and enjoyed the real-world history segment. And as you said, Bob, there is not much to go on to tell us what happened, but I would recommend reading the Jamestown Narratives and A Land as God Made It to give you some first-person views and a different perspective. I was dismissive of this film and think that grew as I worked at the museum (just all the questions about it and its accuracy), but after rewatching it for the podcast it is a good film. The songs are catchy, the art is beautiful, and I think the cast is really great. Enjoyed the podcast and do recommend if you get the chance to come to Virginia to check out the museum if your truly interested in learning more

brian bonelli

As a librarian, I'm happy to hear you guys are using and promoting the library as a resource. Also, for anyone who wants to learn more about Joe Grant, I recommend checking out John Canemaker's book "Two Guys Named Joe" (which also is about the late Joe Ranft). Like many of Canemaker's excellent animation books, it's now out-of-print, but you can get it through interlibrary loan!

Matty

Bob isn't the only one who deliriously sings the same line from a song over and over again while sweating in bed with a fever! He's not even the only one who has done it to Cake! However my earworm was set to a part from Frank Sinatra.

Kiefer Fulsom

I’m with Bob on learning more about Music and musicals, after revisiting this films soundtrack I’d have to recommend the Walt Disney Records The Legacy Collection version of this soundtrack. I believe it was mentioned in the podcast but the legacy collection is a collection of different Disney movies from throughout the years (and even the park) soundtracks feature not only the entire movies songs and orchestral tracks as well but in some cases even songs that were featured in the movie but not any of the official albums releases (Vanessa’s Song from Little Mermaid, as well as the mentioned If I Never Knew You.) they also have early work demos and such. They’re available on Apple Music (and hopefully Spotify as well.) as well as physical releases and beautiful cover artwork that beautifully homages Mary Blair’s art. I mention this because when I went back to relistened to the album, I noticed something interesting regarding the storm during opening sequence, the melodies and leitmotifs while not identical almost mirror the music that played during the Storm scene in Little Mermaid (which is conveniently titled “The Storm” on the album.) it also made me noticed little flushes and instruments that appear throughout this movie, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, and Little Mermaid. And regarding the song Savages! There is a word in musical theory used to describe when several different melodies (as well as singing voices) will be going on at the same time. It’s called Polyphonic. Other notable examples include Quintet from West Side Story, My Shot from Hamilton, La Resistance from South Park, and even We Don’t Talk About Bruno from Encanto, as well as The Confrontation and One Day More from Les Mis. It’s also not just limited to musical theatre as well.

nina matsumoto

re: Henry saying "At least with art nepo babies, you at least have to be good at art" Ohhhhh sorry, I disagree. Mind you, I don't care about nepo babies in the arts (you can't control who you're born to, and of course a child of creative parents will take an interest in their field) but SO much of having a career in art is about knowing the right people, and having a successful artist parent gives you a huge leg up, especially in the world of "high" art. Even in the comics world, there are definitely folks who may not be the most skilled who get hired because their parents are famous. John Romita Jr. gets accused of this a lot (many people think his art is ugly and that he's not as good as his father... I personally love his style but whatever) But I will also argue: you don't always have to be the most artistically skilled to be successful either. If you're a fast worker who works well with others, people may choose you over a "better" artist. I'm digressing too much though so I'll stop here.

Harry Boucher

Great episode! I definitely share Bob’s enthusiasm for the film although, sadly, I didn’t back in ‘95 as I was just a dumb kid, it was the height of gender-prescriptivism, and Pocahontas was promoted so aggressively to me as a ‘girl’ film that I knew if I brought a Pocahontas lunchbox into school it would be social suicide. I related to Bob’s point about appreciating breaks in musical songs to allow for plot/character development, and I think that the musical technique that best describes it is a ‘recitative’, even though the operatic interpretation doesn’t line up perfectly. Also, completely unrelated, but Pug dogs back in the early 1600s had not yet been ‘selectively’ bred to the extent they are today, and actually had a functioning nose and a slightly more athletic build (look up William Hogarth’s pug - he loved that little guy!) So, hopefully, Percy the pug would’ve been slightly better equipped to deal with the rough terrain of the ‘New World.’ Finally, I WISH we had animals like raccoons here in England! I remember watching the Disney live action version of 101 Dalmatians as a kid and seeing raccoons and (I think?) possums in the British countryside, and being very upset when I later learned that TV had lied to me.

N Rose

Hadn't seen this film since the 90s (recalled basically nothing about it), and found myself pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed this rewatch. I agree with a lot of the criticisms out there, but the drama of this take on the story still hooked me, and the film as a whole felt refreshingly daring as far as these Disney things go. The more serious tone, and the bittersweet ending in particular, really stood out. Kudos to them for not throwing in a dumb joke at the very last second, like many of the other films of that era.

Dylan (batmanboy11) Freitag

Bob did a great job with relaying (what we know of) the real world inspirations behind this story and the changes made to it for Disney's version, which is always a highlight of these Disney Renaissance podcasts. Regarding the movie itself though, more than anything I was just BORED rewatching it, and its well-intended but still ultimately misguided attempts to explore the Native American characters rub me the wrong way with all I know of portrayals of Indigenous peoples in media (thanks to some great professors, I learned a LOT about this topic during university). It's certainly better in its depiction than many of its contemporaries, but with how blasé I am on the rest of the movie, it's still not something I'm going to be revisiting again any time soon.

CitizenMeh

Was pleasantly surprised by Bob's stance on this film - I too find the protective walls of irony starting to crumble as I approach 40. I wasn't a fan of this as a kid, but now I'm tempted to revisit it. (Also, I hope the Summer of Disney continues next year- I really want to hear the What A Cartoon take on Atlantis, which whilst far from perfect, may be the most underrated Disney film since the 90's Renaissance)

Brandon Wells

Bob and Henry's sensitivity to Jim Cummings voice is like gamers sensitivity to frame rate