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What A Cartoon Movie! - Toy Story 2 [History Segment] (Patreon)

Published:
2020-05-24 04:01:00
Imported:
2026-06
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Hey howdy hey, it's time for May's episode of What A Cartoon Movie! And the winner of this month's Pixar sequel poll is—unsurprisingly—the fantastic Toy Story 2. It's an amazing follow-up that quite honestly shouldn't be thanks to the extremely small window of time Pixar had to rescue and finish it, and we go into Toy Story 2's surprisingly rich history—including some big facts most folks (even us) get wrong! And, as always, we give a full, scene-by-scene breakdown of the entire film, with lots of fun trivia, clips, and jokes about your favorite molded plastic characters. Now ride like the wind and get ready for another great podcast!

[Note: From this installment onwards, we will be posting each episode of What A Cartoon Movie! in two parts. Patreon has a file size limit per upload, and we want to maintain the highest quality bitrate for these mega-long podcasts. Please check your Patreon RSS feed for the second part of this episode!] 

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Harry Thornton

(posting this again, I wrote this as soon as the episode came out but it got removed somehow. No idea if patreon deleted it or if I did it myself, but here it is again) Oh boy, I have so much to say about this. I have accumulated 20+ years worth of trivia for moments like this, so here we go: The Katzenberg thing goes even deeper: They told him about A Bug's Life even after he left Disney because they still saw him as a friend... needless to say they weren't post-Antz. And to make it even stranger there was an earlier idea at Disney called "Army Ants", pitched while he was still there. The Quibi jab is perfect, it's what he deserves. Love the clarification about Pixar's "third-party" status in this era, it's something I think a lot of people tend to forget now that they're owned by Disney. And Bob's right there: When relations between Disney and Pixar were at their lowest in the mid-2000s, other studios like WB were eyeing them for a new partnership. I remember later on the main Disney Animation studio was REALLY annoyed when some of the DTV sequels (Jungle Book 2 and Return to Neverland) got theatrical US releases, since they were only put in theatres bc... Eisner liked them enough. There's a great AV Club article about how oddly... forgotten Home Improvement is now, despite its huge 90s success. Disney actually did come THIS CLOSE to making Pixar sequels w/o them through that short-lived Circle 7 division. There's a script floating around out there for a Toy Story 3 that's appalling and bizarre, basically a Buzz-focused rehash of this film. Ah yes, the "Lunch" trailer for WALL-E... sadly the cafe that lunch took place there, Hidden City Cafe in Point Richmond, no longer exists. It's funny how initial supplementary materials can often hide what really happened. They did the same with the first movie, one early documentary just kinda said "uh Woody was a little mean-spirited at first", nothing about how this was a huge problem and that they almost shut production down. Pixar did have official separate divisions in the early 2010s, like Pixar Canada... which was shut down after a few years of making (to be clear, excellent) Toy Story shorts and TV specials. I listened to that commentary, it's from the 2000 release, and I think they DO mention it being a DTV movie once, but any bad details are scrubbed out because, again, this was when Pixar was just an associate of Disney. I still haven't read The Pixar Touch, though I really need to at some point. As a kid I only skimmed through it and thought it was boring because there were no pictures like I was Alice from Alice in Wonderland. The "back in 1995 short-sighted retailers" joke is still one of my favourite bits. Love the mention of how the Toy Story Storybook CD-ROM staff just became TS2's staff, it's not often brought up in Pixar history. I suspect the script is 100% real: too many things line up with what we know about this early DTV version. THANK YOU for pointing out that the famous "the movie almost got deleted!" story happened to the DTV version, not the theatrical one. If it really was for the latter it would've been 10 times more disastrous knowing the EXTREME crunch time they were under. That incident even got a nod in TS4: the license plate for a car at the start of the movie is "RMR F97", named for the exact unix command "rm -rf" that almost deleted the film. The project file for TS2 only being 10GB still blows my mind: Games I download on steam have 10 times that amount. Those "Pixar Stories" shorts are cute, but to this day I wanna hear the unedited versions of those stories. Love Bob's nod to Jon Bois' Bob video, that's a classic. Good points raised about that cult of personality Lasseter cultivated. A friend of mine mentioned how there are probably too many animation execs now who are trying to be "the next Walt" and interfere in everything, and questioned why there aren't more like Leon Schlesinger. He was a famous case of a man who didn't know animation, couldn't give a shit if you tried, but let the folks at Termite Terrace just do their thing w/o interference as long as it was profitable. There's a colour script in the book The Art of Pixar that shows a 1996 version, and I think that technical director might've overstated how much was tossed because there's a LOT in common that ended up in the final version: Yard sale, the roundup gang, Woody running on a record, the elevator, etc. I think it'd be fairer to say the Lasseter version is very embellished version of the DTV cut. But like you guys say, this is all very complicated and hard to work out the timeline. There were no suicides, but some workers did have to outright LEAVE THE INDUSTRY due to that RSI Bob mentioned, just from the constant clicking. Bo Peep's new characterization in TS4 does read to me as a big "FU" to Lasseter because 1. it was his idea to bring her back, and 2. earlier versions of that movie had Bo far closer to her character in the first two movies. He saw it as a "romcom", which it really isn't in the final version. The point about padding is interesting - the film really was just 60 minutes in its DTV form, about as long as Dumbo. I feel the same about crunch as you guys - and even a Pixar employee on one of those shorts suggested that crunch made the movie better, and it would've suffered if they had more time. Bob's true about how "When She Loved Me" was Pixar's first big emotional scene, but I obviously have a less negative view of that. I've just been watching Frasier with my family (in particular my sister is a huge fan) so it's good to be reminded of that. And I honestly did not realise until Bob pointed it out that Bob and Pete are very similar characters beyond having the same voice. The crazy thing about Al is that I suspect he's based on Mike Mozart, the JeepersMedia guy who really is a toy collector. He claimed to have met and been friends with Joe Ranft.

ShyRanger

Oh my god, you guys mentioning the Toy Story CD ROM games just unlocked a massive memory for me. That was one of the very first games I ever played (aside from Tonka) and I haven't thought of it in like 23 years. Funny thing, that plus the Toy Story 2 game being pretty good, it ALMOST set me on a "oh movie licensed games are good" streak. Luckily I did not end up playing too many so that mindset died befor eit was too late.

Dylan (batmanboy11) Freitag

That history of the entire alternate version of the movie, it's near-loss, and then it's subsequent dumping before Pixar had to come in and do a rush job from square one again is INSANE. The fact that this story remained hidden for so long, and is pretty unknown still, hits the nail on the head for one of my biggest problems with Disney as a corporation: their revisionist history. Them just swiping issues under the rug, never admitting to them or properly addressing them, and just trying to colour over everything with a DISNEY IS THE BEST crayon is awful. I much prefer how, say, WB handled old racist Looney Tunes by still having them out there but with the context of "yep, this is screwed up but it was socially acceptable and hiding it would be harmful by ignoring the fact that it hurt people." This shit is interesting and glazing over mistakes is dangerous rhetoric that helps keep abusers/harassers (like Lasseter) and murderous capitalists in positions of uncomfortable power.