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Talking Simpsons - Alone Again, Natura-diddily With Matt Christman And Virgil Texas (Patreon)

Published:
2020-10-07 04:00:02
Imported:
2026-06
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We've reached a landmark episode for Simpsons, which means it's time for our pals from Chapo Trap House, Matt Christman and Virgil Texas, to discuss Maude Flanders! How did the character get written off the show? Why was it done in such extreme fashion? And what was the fallout for decades to come from this major episode? We explore all of that in this week's momentous episode, so listen now!!

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Comments

Brian

As a Chapo fan, can I ask how long ago this was recorded?

Mikey Cox

Maybe controversial to say, but this episode was always a bright spot for me during this mediocreing period. In Uni, a group of us always gathered to watch every Sunday and someone would always bring up how Simpsons wasn’t as good anymore. This episode by far got the most laughs out of us for this season and I remember repeating, not unlike when homer see’s his pig on a spit fly, “see, it can still be good!” Seeing it again now, I agree that the writers are far too cruel to Maude and it’s rather distasteful how they treat her. Saying that, it was refreshing to see some emotional magnitude, as crass as it was, in a time when the stories were getting odder and more unbalanced. And many of the jokes land superbly and anyone who disagrees I challenge to a rock fight.

SilkiePJ

I think the worst aspect of this episode, like Bob/Henry have mentioned, is that Maude's Death is Homer's fault. Then the writers grind it in your face with no repercussions towards him at all. If you played the death as more of a freak accident or even had a better narrative about the pain of losing a love one; this wouldn't feel as bad. It just has aged even more poorly because it's unfocused and bounces back really quickly from tragedy. Especially the really TGIF ending with the unironic Christian country song. The only thing I do like from this episode is "You just winged him and made him a Unitarian."

Camille Walters

Am I the only person shouting Brian Griffin at this podcast? 😂 P.S Also the guy shouting during the Maude clips is so fricking annoying!

Richard Mccarthy

Oof, I'm only ten minutes in, but these guests are rough going.

Paul

I find the wishes actually rather heartfelt in its ending. Flanders realizing he wasn't ready to date yet but that he could be attracted to other women and would be ready someday, and "I'll be here, rain or shine" as he turns a corner was really touching, and a sweet ending. The gag from this wise that always sticks with me is Homer's obsession with the star wipe, the best editing transition.

Andrew Giachetti

This episode may be responsible for many of my trips to principal office as a kid. Any time a teacher would do a cutsie “I guess no one else wants x” type thing like on this episode I instinctively would shout back “that’s a damn lie!” Honestly this is an episode that I quote a lot and it’s an episode that I really like a lot despite everything that happens. anytime I’m editing any video or anything I always say to my self “and star wipe and we’re done”. Playing video games with anybody and they asked to play? Why are you respond with “you are playing we’re a team” and then everybody cheers. I think it’s fair to say this is a bad episode with some great jokes in it. Bad for the show as a concept but funny in a vacuum. But to be fair I am a little younger than you guys and I am also of the opinion that the Simpsons don’t really become bad until the mid-20s and then it’s only sometimes and it’s mostly the fourth commercial break that has ruined the show rather than any decline in the writing or Joke quality. I also still watch the show every week and as I have said many times in these comments I will watch the show every week until either it dies or I do. I think the season opener this year was quite funny. Funnier than it has been in at least 5 seasons.

Alex Irish

Speaking of the Baha’i faith, there’s a Baha’i church near where I live. I’ve been working as a census enumerator the past few months, and that church was one of the addresses I was assigned to. I’m pretty sure it’s been vacant for a long time, since going to the back yard revealed it looks abandoned, overgrown with weeds, and sun bleached.

Alex

"Alone Again" will always be the song they played for one episode as the second opening of Maison Ikkoku to me.

Joe Hodgson

I was not plugged into the Simpsons internet community during this period, and aside from this podcast I actually still am not. I had no real idea who was dying in this one as it was definitely billed as a "Someone dies tonight!" which almost never turns out well. And it's clearly written to be billed as that as we are supposed to think someone could be killed by the various gags at the start. I don't think we can really blame the writers for that approach, especially considering they pulled off the "Who Shot Mr. Burns?" thing, albeit under different circumstances. I don't hate this episode. I can't pretend I ever cared about Maude as a character. She's the stereotypical hypocritical Christian woman who practices being judgmental and views anyone different from her as a filthy sinner, but she'll disguise it all with a false projection of being a nice person. Ned embodies some of that to a degree as well, but we've seen enough of him to know he's a mostly genuine person where as Maude has never really had that chance. The only other thing we know about her is that she's apparently quite attractive underneath her plain dress, which come to think of it, is also true of Ned and I never realized they both purposely shared that same character trait until I thought about it right now. It's still sad from the point of view that she's someone's wife and mother, but I'm not offended that her death is essentially a punchline, because again, I've never been asked to care about Maude before. Unlike Skinner, which is why "Principal and the Pauper" rubbed me the wrong way as a fan of the show and I still don't care for that episode. This episode isn't great, but it's not even the worst in the season. That is, of course, the out of context reaction of mine to the episode. What I was unaware of at the time, but am fully aware of now, is the Maggie Roswell aspect which is shameful and killing one of her characters just feels vindictive, all because she wanted a raise! That is gross, so I understand fans who can't separate that reality from the episode. The other aspect is that this is definitely cynical, edgier, Simpsons. A lot of ironic humor, which is certainly a far cry from earlier seasons, but it's also trying to have it both ways with the more schmaltzy second half. Uneven for sure, but I think it's Homer that saves it from being terrible, though he's definitely in "jerk-ass" mode. It's fine. See ya, Maude!

ShyRanger

This episode feels like the perfect microcosm of Simpsons episodes and goings on of that time. -Certain employees treated badly. -Issue with women when writing. -Responding to fans in a bit of poor taste. -Episodes going so many places it feels like three episodes. -Trying to be edgy to compete with the other popular cartoons.

Chris Dobson

I think this episode and the Duncan episode were the one-two punch that my dad vetoed watching the Simpsons on the living room TV, as it had gotten "too stupid," although syndication episodes still raised my youngest sibling for another ten years. I think he was right, the show is just oddly paced and cruel by this point, and it seemed like every other joke in this one is pointing out how stupid it is to care about any of these characters or what happens to them.

ToonJay723

In the season 16 episode "There's Something About Marrying" Homer asks if Cletus and Brandine are brother and sister, Brandine responds "We're all kinds of things".

nina matsumoto

RE: NED'S MASSIVE DONG I've always interpreted the joke as Homer having edited the footage to make it look like Ned has a super long dick, not that he actually has one. Hence why it's comically, unrealistically long. I still stand by my interpretation.

littleterr0r

To be fair to Henry, most one-hit wonders had more than one hit song in their native country. I learned that from watching One Hit Wonderland from ToddInTheShadows on YouTube.

Alan M.

I’ve always had a foot in the world of NASCAR, my grandfather raced a couple races in the 80s back when anyone could show up with a car. NASCAR was created by Bill France in the 50s or 60s and the France family still owns and runs NASCAR to this day. I had the honor of going to a dinner at the France family beach house a couple years ago in Florida and got to meet some of the family. The thing I will always remember is that they had a huge tv and for whatever reason they were playing Bolt, the John Travolta Disney movie. It seemed weird that these rich old people would be playing Bolt, but maybe they thought that’s what normal people watched. Please never do Bolt for WAC...

crystalhearts

Homer Simpson deserves the electric chair in this episode. It's even more cruel and brutal than I remembered!

Bennett Billard

Nedna actually set up a pretty interesting dynamic, in that new neighbor Edna could be Bart's Flanders. Too, good for her to finally get a good end after all the Skinner hassle.

Drew Waranis

The Rubicon has been crossed!

Lockerus

I always thought the joke was that Ned, while he does have an above average dong, was peeing in the shower, hence Homer’s line about “keeping clean”.

littleterr0r

I woke up with "Sunny Came Home" stuck in my head this morning.

Mike Mariano

This is an episode I have never been able to watch and you all did a good job helping me cope. I had no idea they used a fake Maggie Roswell and Matt screaming over the impostor was NECESSARY to process the unease I felt listening to that. I wonder if it would be possible to edit this episode and the Kid Rock episode (instead of NASCAR it's a concert?) together to create an even more horrible formulation of the Simpsons...?

Thad Komorowski

Henry is correct: the main SEINFELD cast didn't get along or have much chemistry with Heidi Swedberg (Susan), so her death was Larry David's parting gift to the series. FYI, my grandmother was appalled by that episode.

Thad Komorowski

Also, need to pipe in: the need to compete in meanness/darkness came completely from South Park. Family Guy just was NOT popular in its original 3-season run. It really wasn't. That's why it got cancelled. of course, FG would eventually be the worst thing to ever happen to primetime animation but that wasn't until it was revived a few years later.

Dan Z

Virgil is Lenny and Matt is Carl

Thad Komorowski

The CHAPO guys really made a good point about the Oakley-Weinstein years laying the ground work for reckless indifference that's always attributed solely to the Scully years. S7 does have at least a dozen of my absolute favorites, but S8 is really where things get too damn silly - and as they said, it's really clear Oakley and Weinstein were under the impression this show was gonna be wrapping soon, whatever they say to the contrary now. Either way, they still turned out classic after classic, while Scully will ultimately go down in history as the guy who sent everyone away from America's favorite family, even if he is a nice guy personally.

Jay Gironimi

One thing that always amused me, but couldn't possibly be an intentional joke is that in 1999 Swedish Black Metal band Covenant had to change their name to The Kovenant. They also changed their look/sound, so there is a real Kovenant that looks like an off brand Marilyn Manson and sounds like a European bootleg Static-X.

James Babbo

So glad you brought up "The Principal & the Pauper" again because it was that episode & this that were the one-two punch that made me lose interest in the show. Totally disagree with your assessment of the former because The Simpsons is a character driven show. Plop these guys in any plot & it's their personalities that dictate how it goes. When you portray "Skinner" as a completely different person then you can't trust any of the cast's identities. For example - were all of "Skinner's" Vietnam memories real? Even if they were Martin Sheen's they seem false - Armin Tanzarian was a biker hoodlum & the real Skinner liked bars & thought Krabobel was hitting on him. Are either of these people the kind of guy that would force Joey Heatherton to put on pants to cite one example? Regardless, the entire town now knows "Skinner" is a fraud. The idea that Springfield would allow this con man (however nice he may be) to be in charge of an Elementary School seems more unbelievable that Homer going into space! Which leads to the death of Maude. As you correctly point out, the episode goes out of its way to inform us that Homer was the cause. That's frightening because it cements the notion that these secondary characters are cannon fodder when they get into the orbit of this family. Yes, Homer was not directly responsible for Maude or Frank Grimes' deaths BUT if they had never met him they'd still be alive! That's the message I got from this episode & why I felt the producers just didn't care anymore.

Dylan (batmanboy11) Freitag

I don't fully hate this episode, but much like the last one, it really is just dealing with too many ideas and not following through on anything. Maude could have died earlier in the episode and we actually spent an act with Ned dealing with the immediate grief before the third act established a time jump less clumsily and then we could feel relieved with a happier ending of Ned actually on a date or something. But as it is, it's too fucking mean and knowing the full behind-the-scenes reasons for it only makes it suck more. I don't totally *hate* this episode, but it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth and to me does mark an endgame in the show having any consistency in quality, even if I still think some later season 12 episodes (such as Behind the Laughter, which is basically where I would say to stop watching for anyone going through the series) are really good. There's no singular reason for the show being worse than it was before despite what so many internet theorists have stated, but at this point, with this treatment of Maude, the show seems to exist much more for monetary reasons than any kind of actual interest in comedy and storytelling, and that's hard to come back from.

Leo Martin

I’ve got to say I really enjoyed this episode when I was growing up, and listening to the podcast episode I was reminded of why, because there is some funny stuff in this. One theme that has been coming up in recent episodes is the high burn rate of plots, and this episode had that feeling, Ned coming to terms with Maud’s death and having a crises of faith feels like a solid plot which could take up a whole episode, and the dating episode could be its own follow up episode. As a result of combing the two it is a real tonal dissonance, with some genuinely human moments not being given time to breath.

Nicholas Berry

I hate to be negative but I'd really like the next milestone Simpsons episode (if there is one after this) to not feature the Chapo guys. I'm sure lots of people like them but I find them intensely annoying. They talk way too much and are incredibly opinionated. By all means have them on for another episode but I feel like they've ruined two of the most important episodes for me.