Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

Content

Hi good humans!

A couple days ago I posted a quick response to the fee restructuring that Patreon is doing, which puts the credit card fees on your end instead of mine.

In theory this has some good sides and can be helpful to some creators. It also disproportionately punishes smaller donors, and discourages contributing small amounts to many creators. It may work out well for some people on the platform, and I know Patreon works really hard on behalf of creators and put a lot of thought into this, so my initial take was generous.

Having learned a bit more about the changes, I have decided that I personally don't like it, and I have a major problem with how it looks like they're intending to implement it.

The main reason I wanted to be here on Patreon instead of directly accepting donations is because of the efficiency gained by bundling small payments. There's a lot of creators like me here, and many people who want to donate to all their favourite artists or youtubers in one convenient spot where the bundling of payments cuts down on fees. 

I'd done the math before committing to Patreon. If they didn't bundle $1 donations, I would not encourage them. It doesn't seem ethical to ask you for what I say is a $1 donation to me if it's actually a donation to your credit card company. But because Patreon bundles small payments, it makes this kind of patronage reasonable and efficient. 

This is something Patreon does differently from other platforms, a unique value-add of being here instead of on my own. Personally I disagree with the move to do things more like other platforms and have folks pay each transaction separately as they pledge, instead of waiting and bundling. But I trust they did their research and have their reasoning.

Patreon is trying to solve a real problem where bundling payments causes certain problems for certain creators, mostly involving the shifting timing and how to get access to exclusive content. Patreon says creators pay 7-15% in processing fees, so I see how things might ultimately work out in some creator's favor with the proposed change. Personally, I've been paying 5% in processing fees, so obviously I'm well outside the norm and have more incentive than most to disagree with the change.

I trust Patreon did their research in deciding this helps their creators overall, even if all the creators I know seem to dislike the change. It could very well be because the creators I know are all in the exclusive club of having higher-than-average pledges and having patrons that pledge to many creators and thus bundle payments.

I'd be interested to see the statistics and hear from creators who are on the other side of the equation (if anyone has links or comments please share), and hear more from Patreon about why they've decided to target creators like them rather than creators like me.

So while the change doesn't benefit me and you, and many people have left because of it (I've lost ~50 patrons in the past few days whose anonymous exit surveys say it's related to this change), I could live with this change on here, and set up an alternative in addition to Patreon for those who prefer.

But regardless of whether I like the change or not, I'm suspending payments here until one thing gets figured out: is Patreon intending to add this extra charge to people's credit cards without their explicit permission? Will there be a reconfirmation phase where people opt in or change their pledge or confirm their payment? Or will Patreon lower people's pledge amount so that given the fees it comes out to the same charge on their card?

I know many of you got the notification and are either ok with the fee or have decided to lower/delete your pledge to account for it. But I still haven't gotten a notification, and that means it's possible others haven't gotten it as well. And many people filter out newsletters and messages from platforms. There will be those who agreed to pay a certain amount per month and decided to forget about it, trusting that I'm not going to decide to suddenly add extra charges on their cards.

I pledge small amounts to a bunch of creators on here. I used to pledge to 25 different creators and had to downsize when I became unemployed, and my current budget assumes I'm not suddenly going to get a 30% increase in fees. If at the end of the month I get charged more than I agreed to, personally as a donor I'd leave the platform and be annoyed not only at Patreon but at any creators who knowingly let the charge go through.

Patreon is catching a lot of flack from people who think this is a money grab by Patreon, and I don't think that's fair. I believe Patreon thinks this change is to benefit creators. The folks doing the money grab are the credit card companies that have been charging unreasonable fees all along, whether you see them or not. Still, I personally don't think charging people more for my own benefit without their permission is the right thing to do either.

I am not at all comfortable being asked to charge you more than we agreed on. If I could opt out, I would, but I can't, so I'm left feeling like Patreon is holding my income hostage unless I become complicit in credit card fraud. At least to me, it feels like fraud if I ask you to come join this platform and then charge you more than what you agreed to pay me. Even if there's something in the user agreement with the platform that makes it legal, I feel like the trust and agreement is between you and me, not you and a platform. I don't like the platform getting in the way of our trust and our agreement. It just doesn't feel right, and I'm pretty stubborn when it comes to doing the right thing. So let's hope that's not what they're intending to do.

Either way, it's clear that most of you are extremely unhappy with the change, and that's not something I can ignore.

I dearly hope this gets sorted out. I've been burning through my savings getting this whole thing set up these past few months, filling in with other work and things like shirts and the wishlist. This was supposed to be the month where we do one more push to people who haven't heard I'm crowdfunding yet, and maybe add some more physical rewards, and grow to the point that things are sustainable so I can focus on real work. Now we're shrinking in a month when we should be growing, and I'm faced with the possibility of having to start on another platform, delaying my real projects while prolonging what has been a very stressful year of financial instability. 

This year was starting to turn around for me, and it feels like a punch in the gut to have that stability taken away yet again. It is really hard to do quality work (or any work) when my life and finances are constantly being messed with. But I'm just not ok with sneaking extra fees on your credit cards, or at best, pushing you into increasing your pledge to more than you had decided to.

To those who were informed about the change and decided you were cool with supporting me at a slightly higher amount, you have my appreciation! All your generosity has made it possible to keep things going these past few months.

I've been fortunate recently, and I'm not in danger of immediate collapse. I can afford to take the time to set up somewhere else. I just can't afford to finally stop worrying about funding and get back to making art. We'll get there eventually, just maybe not as soon as I hoped!

While I worry about the worst case scenario and must spend some time preparing alternatives, I also still trust Patreon will figure it out. I know Jack Conte. He deeply cares about creators and values the relationship between creator and audience. This change certainly wasn't very well communicated, and I'm still not sure what they're thinking, so we'll suspend payments and see if it gets sorted out.

In the mean time let me know your thoughts!

Vi

Comments

Anonymous

PATREON DECIDED NOT TO CHANGE PLEDGE PAYMENTS AFTER ALL !

Chris Nolan.ca

From their apology letter, they seem to operate in a totally different way than I assumed... if they are processing 150million in donations and are still charged those rates from the CC company there is something really wrong with all that. I want all my pledges to be processed once a month so that minimizes the CC fees and the most possible goes to the creators, with patreon taking their cut (which seems kinda high itself, in the long-term). Glad they aren't making the change, but hope they figure things out going forward. Best of luck growing the following.