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Radio War Nerd EP #497 — Jihadist Insurgencies in the Sahel, feat. Rob Ashlar (Patreon)

Published:
2025-01-30 20:23:03
Imported:
2025-01
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Guest: Rob AshlarRecorded: January 28, 2025

We talk to researcher Rob Ashlar about the social-political roots of the jihadist insurgencies in the Sahel, which have only grown and spread with each failed counter-insurgency effort.

Glossary:JNIM: Al Qaeda franchise and most powerful jihadist group in the SahelAQIM (Al Qaeda in the Maghreb): Algeria-based Al Qaeda hq-like branch that works closely with JNIMKouffa, Amadou: De facto leader of JNIM, formally #2ISGS (Islamic State in the Greater Sahara): IS branch operating in southwest Niger and southeast MaliISWA (Islamic State in West Africa): IS branch operating in Chadian basin in northeast Nigeria

Maps: *Sahel countries

*Mali's Baoule Forest

*Jihadist strongholds in Sahel

Check out Rob's newsletter "For by art is created that great LEVIATHAN"Previous episodes with Rob Ashlar:*RWN #435: IS-KP's Friends in US-Occupied Afghanistan*RWN #458, #459: Origins of the Iraqi Insurgency, 2003-5

Total time: 1:32:59Direct link to this episode's mp3 here

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Subscribe to Radio War Nerd at patreon.com/radiowarnerd

Sound production by Telescope Audio

Check out the Radio War Nerd Merch store here!

Order your print or ebook of John Dolan's new book Erdogan Pizza: Dispatches from a Violent & Grotesque World

Files

Comments

Inmybirkin

LFG !! My requests have come true

Colin W.

the king returns.

Leo Silverstein

please do a show about congo - specifically the context of rwanda's support for the rebels and the rwandan genocide. most people (esp on the left) seem to consider rwanda to be solely interested in minerals and ignore (as they have for thirty years) the hutu genocidaires camping out in the congo.

Hans Anders

And also the role western mining companies play in the mining, smuggling and export of minerals.

Pay

Yes!! Love the Ashlar eps! The Iraq insurgency one was excellent.

William

John sounds better and more coherent with every episode he spends in Italy. So glad he was able to put down roots and share more of his big brain with us

Clammy_Damp

I think medieval forestry laws in France and England are an interesting parallel to those forestry laws imposed on people in their future colonies. They are absolutely tools for social control and not concerned with the biome of whichever forest is concerned . In fact “forest” law in the Middle Ages could apply to towns. It was the legal justification to remove people from their land.

Clammy_Damp

Togo exporting gold despite not having it reminds me of how Rwanda has been exporting cobalt despite not having that. An M23 episode would be cool. Thank you guys for actually talking about Africa!

BryceSprungstein

I think Susan Williams would be a great guest, at least for a lot of the backstory. She's written a lot about western intelligence's role in 're-colonizing' Africa

David Gyllenhaal

Fantastic episode. I find the jihad in the Sahel almost hypnotically fascinating, but you really do need someone capable of some 'vulgar' Marxism at the very least to cast any light on the actual underlying dynamics. Rob does it one better. I half disagree about this particular kind of jihadi sensibility being a post nineteenth century phenomenon (though maybe Rob meant just in the Sahel and I misunderstood him). Salafi global jihad is certainly a new and weird vintage. But this basic phenomenon—Maghrebi pastoralist grievance getting metabolized into reformist/takfiri jihad—is super old. Even way before Dan Fodio and the Fula jihads, you can see the dynamic play out north of the Sahara like half a dozen times—Fatimids, Almoravids, Almohads. This is actually the precedent that Ibn Khaldun (and I half-suspect Frank Herbert) had in mind when sketching out the dynamics of the prototypical mahdist tribal revolt. Even the pattern of up-to-date theology from the eastern Islamic heartlands being used to mobilize local tribal grievance is really old. The comment about 'our sheikhs telling us what Islam is actually all about' reminds me really strongly of Ibn Tumart, who was born among the Sanhaja in the Atlas mountains but did a ten year study abroad in Mecca, Syria, and maybe Baghdad. He's supposed to have studied with al-Ghazali and when he came back he had this wild hyper-rationalist theology bolted onto his declaration of himself as the Mahdi, and he raised the cry of revolt against the Almoravids because they were 'anthropomorphizers' of God as well as because their men wore the veil. Supposedly the Sanhaja liked his theology, and that's why they joined his revolt. But the Almoravids had also been building fortresses for a while at the inlets and outlets to the Atlas mountains, which I bet you $20 controlled access to grazing territories on the plain below and disrupted normal transhumance patterns. I've also found some stories in medieval Arabic sources about Almoravid tax collectors coming up into the mountains and supposedly cuckolding the local men (maybe when they were out grazing?) So again there's an old pattern for Maghrebi pastoralists or semi-pastoralists discovering the true meaning of Islam right about the time that they are being newly subjected to fiscality.

triplevalaska

Okay so israel is bad, so now Islamic state are just leftist without a cause. I just can't make that jump these guys are bad dudes and they should be stamped out.

Podconsoomer

Not once have any of the hosts or guests claimed that . What they might have said is that in the absence of any leftist movement in the region these type of people will step in

a clash of purple

The issues raised by the people at that event don't have any "correct" answer. Ultimately, though, you don't get to choose what sect or ethnicity or nationality or whatever you belong to. It's a choice made by other people. So to me it seems like a moot point to think about "I'm a herder," "I'm a farmer," "I'm Somalian," "I'm American," etc.. Your own feelings on the subject don't much matter.

Kyle Erickson

I was dying laughing when I realized that he was a real guy you can look up, and he really does resemble a monitor lizard

Aiden

Mark’s thanks to John Brennan at the end was an odd note. But I’m sure he factors into all this stuff.

Aiden

Thanks, fascinating episode.

William

I don’t think you guys realize that conflict has been going on in the Sahel for millennia. It’s just always going to be at war

William

Do you actually listen to the episodes? Ffs simple listening and comprehension errors for multiple episodes in a row now. Check your house for leaded paint

William

AQ sounds like a jihadist venture capital fund

Jason Thompson

Randomly: did y’all ever read the old sci fi dystopia “Merchant Planet” and especially its sequel “The Merchants’ War”? I read it ages ago and I dunno how well all of it holds up but “War” explicitly makes a jihadi Saharan insurgency the heroes (or the heroes’ allies) in the revolution against the planet wide capitalist dystopia. (NOT against the USSR, tho “War” was written about the same time James Bond was schmoozing with the Taliban…) Pretty shocking stuff for my oblivious teenage self reading it in the ‘80s!

Lord-Admiral of the Pyrenees

Oh man he’s on the board of governors of some school. Do they know he once tried to off the War Nerd?

John Waaben

UAE acting as the underworld “bank” washing all the money too

Boobs123

Every inhabited place on Earth has experienced war. That doesn't make it something that is futile to analyze or oppose.

Boobs123

"As usual, the blame lies with France." *goes on to explain that all of the dynamics underlying the conflict are local and precolonial in origin*

Hans Anders

Except for the French Forest law, the French placating separatists, the French allowing their henchmen to extort the population, and then some

Winston Reid

We absolutely need a Rwanda/DRC episode. I know they’ve talked about how tough it is to a get a guest who really knows Africa on.

William

Sorry, this was a sarcastic comment aping the oft-repeated canard about the Middle East

Boobs123

So, French and then post-independence law giving the native people rights, butting up against traditional law as imposed by Fulani invaders in the 19th century, which privileged upper-class Fulani and gave elite elders final say over access to resources in the areas they ruled.

m

loved this guest!

William

“Explicitly Marxist bent obviously discounts other motivations” I don’t know if you have noticed this, but the majority of the subject matter experts RWN interviews all have this “Marxist bent”. For some reason, they keep being the most reliable reporters on conditions “on the ground”. Hmm

Peter Z

Lol, nice

Aiden

American Prestige has an ep on M23 out today

JDF

Ashlar = 🐐

JDF

Check out his new podcast Turbulence (w/ Seamus )