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Radio War Nerd EP #523 — Drone Warfare in Ukraine (Year 3), feat. Samuel Bendett (Patreon)

Published:
2025-05-18 22:42:34
Edited:
2026-07-01 01:07:08
Imported:
2025-05
Tags:

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Content

Drone warfare expert Samuel Bendett joins us again to give an overview of the rapidly evolving changes in unmanned warfare in Ukraine...

Guest: Samuel Bendett, Researcher at The Center for Naval AnalysesRecorded: May 15, 2025

Drone warfare expert Samuel Bendett joins us again to give an overview of the rapidly evolving changes in unmanned warfare in Ukraine.

Further listening with Samuel Bendett:*EP #398 - Drone Warfare in Ukraine (Pt. 2)*EP #351 - Drone Warfare in Ukraine (Pt. 1)

*Russian drones on Red Square Victory Parade

*Ukrainian logistics UGV "Vislyuk" capable of transporting 200kg

*Russian kamikaze UGV with mine

*Ukrainian USV with Sidewinder sea-to-air missiles

*Russian fiber-optic drone with radio capability

*UGV transports wounded soldier from front near Soledar

*Løven chasing frisbee

Music interlude by Brendon Anderegg. Check out music from his group Mountains hereTotal time: 58:51Direct link to this episode's mp3 here

*

Subscribe to Radio War Nerd at patreon.com/radiowarnerd

Sound production by Telescope Audio

Check out the Radio War Nerd Merch store here!

Order your print or ebook of John Dolan's new book Erdogan Pizza: Dispatches from a Violent & Grotesque World

Files

Comments

Wheeler

We could use an update on the cat

CR

Autonomous cars are going to come out of this stupid fucking war.

NYCM&AHole

The whole Ukraine civilians buying supplies reminds me of the phase during operation Iraqi freedom where families bought their deployed soldiers body armor with their own money. “You go to war with the army you have, not the army you want.” -Rumsfeld

Miko

The "American Bushido" philosophy of the elite SOF-centric military, as championed by Hegseth, is about the worst possible way to organize a military in the face of massed artillery, ISR, and limitless drones. As a result, have a horrible feeling that the Hegseth run DOD is going to ignore the lessons of the Ukr/RUS war completely and act like the UK generals ordering troops to charge machine gun nests in WW1 for the next big war.

NYCM&AHole

And then servicemembers’ families will have to buy their own drones. Go to war with the army you have, not the army you want.

CC

Please update us on your cat :((( when you get the chance. Great episode y’all, the subject does make one giddy with possibility.

Harvey Marsalko

It feels awfully forced for Sam to even mention the "threat" that young men with technical drone experience pose to the Russian state. As with everything in this war, if it applies to Russia it applies 1000x more to Ukraine. Life will not be good for the elderly pensioners or whoever is left in that miserable country once the war ends and young men with technical knowledge in inflicting death are demobilized and sent back to their hometowns. Ukraine hardly had a functional state before the war, what makes us think they'll have one capable of controlling their mentally ill after the war?

Harvey Marsalko

Not to say the Russia will come out of this with anything but a phyrric victory. But if we're gonna gloat over the suffering of our enemy, shouldn't we at least recognize the hundredfold suffering that our supposed ally with inevitably feel?

Greg

I have a friend who is an arborist in Minneapolis and he is constantly rescuing cats. He does it for free too because he is a big cat guy. Maybe reach out to some local mom and pop arborists in Rochester

Richard

Perhaps, a rope tied to a rock could be thrown over a nearby branch. Then the carrier with food could be lifted up to near the cat. Anyway, good luck.

Dominic White

Have to admit I was almost in tears laughing imaging someone trying to coax a cat into entering a basket on a stick 30ft in the air. If that doesn’t work maybe a hot air balloon? One of those ornithopters Da Vinci designed? Poor Løven!

Ana

Especially with the U.S. spoiling to start a major war with China (to the point the admin seems to treat it almost like a fait accompli). Things could go very bad for America very quickly. I keep thinking how Americans have never really been bombed before, unlike much of the rest of the world (often by us). It's truly frightening to imagine what this increasingly unhinged country will do if it's wounded and humiliated by a country like China - which let's be frank, the U.S. has zero chance of matching in a conventional war just based on demographics and manufacturing capacity alone. I highly doubt the average American would look at New York or L.A. being hit with Chinese missiles and think "damn our government for starting this pointless war of aggression." No, my suspicion is even most liberals will be signing on for the Dr. Strangelove ending, especially when a significant portion of elderly Americans now seem to desire taking everyone out with them when they go anyway.

Stephen Norrie

Good luck with the cat rescue. We had the same thing a few years ago, one of our cats climbed about 15 feet up a pretty thin tree. It did it twice and the first time I was able to rescue it with a ladder, but the second was during a storm, it was dark, and the tree was swaying side to side, and there was no way I was going up there. Cat came down after a few hours looking terrified and has never climbed a tree since.

William

Next episode: world of wars and world of cats

Jonathan Penn

As the wars continue, one can only hope (probably in vain) that someone with authority in the US military is paying attention.

William

Armor heads SEETHING rn

Jonathan Penn

A. Carriers- new US carriers use a type of electro-magnetic rail gun as their launching catapult. Older carriers use a steam-driven system. Even slightly misalignment renders the electro-mag catapult unuseable. The older ones are more tolerant of some damage. A cheap swarm of drones aimed only at the catapults would most likely succeed in hitting and damaging the system, rendering the carrier useless and very vulnerable to follow-up attacks. The era of big carriers and big fleets is surely over;

Jonathan Penn

B- Bi-static radar (the transmitter and receiver are separate) can detect and track stealth aircraft. All fighters have, in addition, a large IR signature that no amount of careful design and careful directing of the exhaust can eliminate. The US Sidewinder, a constantly updated IR missile is one of the most successful tools in the US arsenal. Manpads in sufficient numbers will eventually take down an F-35. Even were a swarm of drones merely to shatter the canopy, that would take the plane down. Manned fighter aircraft, like carriers, are becoming a mere boondoggle.

Jonathan Penn

C- and finally- I think we will soon see what I can best call "neutral buoyancy" attaack drones. A hydrogen ballon will be attached to the quad-copter, giving it neutral buoyancy, allowing for a much larger payload. Upwind and cross-wind capability will be limited but if launched in a favorable wind, the extra payload could be very useful.

William

If the US military can’t pivot away from massively expensive weapons, they’re cooked. There’s been plenty of signs that the hegemony would be eclipsed in the next 30 years, but it’s the equivalent of taking decades to train an elite warrior vs giving a peasant a musket and 60min of instruction

Schaeffer Mallory

If you're still dealing with the cat emergency, I'd also recommend calling a tree removal service and asking if you could pay one of their folks to scale the tree, they usually have climbing gear that allows them to climb up without cherry pickers if need be

Schaeffer Mallory

The other thing is to leave that more secure ladder up against the tree overnight - it'll give the cat an easier way down

aaron Thomas

I was an emt and we got called to standby for a cat in tree rescue and the fire department called the electic company to come out with a cherry picker.

Brian Brain

I don't know how this was missed but Mark clearly needs a (farm) drone with a cat box attached to it.

Max

Believe EMALS was just found to be one of the worst performing development programs of the past calendar year. The Truman having to take an evasive maneuver at all is a complete indictment of the entire Carrier Strike Group and its layered defense system. Criminal to put 6,000 sailors and airmen in that kind of danger.

Max

Regarding the near shootdowns of F16s and F35s, I can't shake the memory of the 10,000 fixed and rotary wing aircraft the US lost in Vietnam to the supposedly backwards Vietnamese. Seems like there is still a veneration of high technology driving us towards some stupid wasteful war

N

The US reliance on aircraft carriers is starting to look like the reliance of the feudal overlords on knights

ploob

Shipbuilders are pissed!

ploob

Stochastic terror employing drones will be quite remarkable no matter the border or circumstance.

T

Virgin Spartan vs Chad Sans-Culottes

T

French knights HATE this one weird welsh archery trick

a clash of purple

what a disaster, this guest has no idea what he's talking about. I doubt if he's even a drone. Why can't we ever hear from the actual robots themselves? UAV and UGV perspectives are always erased by the humanarchy. Dolan and Ames need to be empowering drone voices on their podcast, not amplifying the hegemonic human-centric narrative.

a clash of purple

Except the hegemon is backed by nuclear deterrent. As are its rivals. So all this military hardware, no matter the price tag, is *completely* pointless. Certainly none of it is relevant to counterinsurgency and guerrilla warfare. These topics do matter somewhat to third- and fourth-rate powers who don't have nukes, but even there, I assume suicide bombs, cruise missiles, and artillery are enough to get by. Of course, drones *are* an inexpensive way to make those weapons better, so, as I said, it's relevant to them. But for the U.S., what's the difference between spending a trillion dollars on useless weapons vs. dumping the money into a giant pit and setting it on fire? The quantity of USD doesn't matter for the purposes of U.S. power and influence. For now we can just print as many dollars as we want, and once we can't, we won't care anymore (plus they can always pass the pain on to the plebeians).

a clash of purple

except remember that armor of that era improved rapidly, such that cavalry became basically immune to arrows within a couple decades. The dominance of the longbow did not last long. And even if they gradually became less useful as front-line combatants, cavalry continued to be useful for many centuries for scouting, harassment, flanking, etc..

a clash of purple

I don't think the Chinese would bomb American cities. What would be the point? As you said, all it would do is risk an uncontrollable escalation with an irrational opponent. *Maybe* they'd occupy South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan, but even that seems unlikely. I really don't know if South Korea and Japan would go along with an offensive war against the PRC in the first place; they might go to great lengths to avoid getting involved, up to and including closing American military bases on their soil. They're worried about China, but I don't think they would willingly start a fight with them. China is a crucial business partner for them, and even pro-American figures in South Korea haven't been able to get enough from the U.S. to make the idea of anti-China mobilization appealling to their people. Biden just callously blew off President Yoon when he went to Washington with concerns about the South Korean EV industry, hoping that in exchange for his going along with anti-China sanctions he could bring home something for his constituents. Basically the Americans just take for granted that South Korea and Japan will do their bidding without question, complaint, or compensation. I don't think they're right about that. And how could the U.S. prosecute a war with China without Japan and South Korea solidly on board? I mean, war with China would be such an insanely terrible idea. Even when the PRC was much, much weaker than it is now, and the U.S. much stronger, and relations between us much worse than they are now, we never tried to do anything more than preserve the ROC in Taiwan. It's so much more risky now, and the chance of unforeseeable escalations and complications so much higher, that it just seems impossible that it could ever happen. I mean, what would the rest of the world do? How would our allies, enemies, and everyone in between react? Would China open up another front in the Middle East and support the Palestinians and Iranians? Or attack the American military presence in any number of other places? What would Russia do? What about the Europeans? South America? Canada? India? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Iraq? Africa? How would we attack or invade China? Is there any chance that Russia, Kazakhstan, India, Vietnam, Laos, Pakistan, etc. would let American troops use their land borders? Would we try to gain control over the Chinese coastline? How could we possibly accomplish that when we can't even control the waters around Yemen?? It would be a roll of the dice where the U.S. couldn't hope to break even, let alone come out ahead, no matter the outcome. Even if the PRC just magically evaporated into thin air and that was that, how could the American economy (let alone the global economy) survive without the manufacturing engine that is China?

a clash of purple

Howcome they don't do that with manned aircraft? The idea of a combination hot-air balloon/helicopter seems fun.

a clash of purple

Do you think we'll one day see a type of drone that carries no payload, but simply duplicates the flocking behavior of birds, and which is deployed en masse in the probable flight path of enemy aircraft with the sole aim of bringing them down through the artificial equivalent of bird strikes?

a clash of purple

The U.S. military cannot conceive of the idea that they don't have air superiority. It's not a possibility that can enter their collective consciousness. They just can't imagine that we could be threatened in the air; the air belongs to us. Just like the sea. I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of people in the service who know all this. My father served in the U.S. Navy for many years, and even decades ago it was a common joke that there are two types of vessels: submarines and targets. But for various reasons, acknowledging that reality or doing anything about it is simply impossible for the American military.

Jonathan Penn

Definitely- a sort of smart pebbles operation. It wouldn't need that much intelligence or manuverability. Manned jets are simply doomed in the near term

Connor Gouge

It takes thousands of standard party balloons worth of helium to lift just a person, which is going to cause so much wind resistance as to not be very fast. A quick Google shows that Lockheed has a small manned rigid airship and it doesn't seem like it goes very fast lol better to just do the Hamas style hang glider things.

a clash of purple

Yeah, we lost a lot of aircraft and men just so we could murder a bunch of innocent people who hadn't done anything to us, but if we *hadn't* then boomers would have one less thing to whine about. "We could have won in Vietnam if those damned liberal politicians let us blow up China so they couldn't give the Viet Cong anti-air weapons!" Boomers love making up stupid excuses for why they fail and lose at everything. It's their favorite pastime besides imagining outlandish situations where they get to yell at black people, or gruesomely kill criminals.

Demented Avenger

I kept listening to this and my mind boggled at the horrifying possibilities of what those drones will do domestically. Because there's a 100% chance they will be deployed domestically to keep control of us.

a clash of purple

I think policing is one area where drones won't make much difference. Gaza is lousy with drones and they haven't accomplished anything except terrorize people who were already pretty thoroughly terrorized. Though, you would think maybe they could send them down into the tunnels under Gaza to clear them with less risk of taking casualties, but I guess not?

Benjamin Glover

It is wild to me that what you wrote back in the 2000s has all but come true

Benjamin Glover

for years you already have drone swarms that do live action shows such as during firework displays and the visual display is kinda crazy even on video.

Tom Warner

yeah, even a small payload requires a massive bag of lifting gas, which means you're slow and at the mercy of the wind (and, in war, a big fragile target)

William

I would’ve personally said crossbows, but horse based cav is more reliable, mobile, and adaptable than modern armor. Honestly, it’s hard to see anything other than powered exoskeletons giving the same power, speed, and maneuverability; maybe more use of dirtbikes or ATVs

Abigail Butcher

Call a tree surgeon! They will get the kitty down.

Blown Magnet

What was the number of drones in the battlespace that the guest said ? I remember it was millions but I do t remember how many millions

Benjamin Glover

Guest said both sides fielded a total of 3 million drones in 2024. Even if that's an over estimation, or only 1.5 mln on each side, that's still [opens a calculator] approximately 4000 drones every day on average, or 170 drones per hour. Or 2.8 drones per minute.

Tyler Berglund

Couldn’t stop thinking about Marks kitty, major bummer. I hope he’s alright.

IRIDYSCENZIA

Keep up the amazing work! 💎🚀

McNuggie

Looks like the cat came down per Mark on Twitter, for those who are worried.

Nicholas

What Samuel said about civilians manufacturing drones really struck me. I think someday soon we'll start seeing homemade drones proliferate among local militia groups and lone nuts / Luigi copycats. Why print a gun when you could print a kamakaze drone?

Alex

Lol @ “Reno 9/11”

a clash of purple

Breaking news: Ames's cat Løven has merged with the tree to become an ambulatory cat/tree hybrid and is now stomping around terrorizing New York State. The State National Guard has already been routed, and President Trump is meeting with the Joint Chiefs of Staff to discuss the possibility of launching a nuclear strike on New York. As a preemptive measure against future tree attacks, the White Wizard Saruman has been selected to lead a federal task force of wild men and orcs in attacking and subduing forests around the nation.

Doug Cartel

Using older radars to find the F35 reminds me not only of the F117 debacle in Bosnia but also the unconfirmed(?) debate that the radar for the Soviet SA-2 was capable of seeing the F117 as well. Older tech maintaining it's relevance is a weird twist of the supposedly straightforward game of one-potato-two-potato that usually characterizes the arms race

Doug Cartel

Oh also China's launching the Jiutian drone in a month which ought to be an interesting step up in the race

Benj

On the lighter side, I’ve been fucking with my gun but coworkers about how damned obsolete their fetish has become. Bunch of French officers on horseback, etc.

Benj

*nut

N P

Reminds me of a short story I read a long time ago where we are in a perpetual war without soldiers. Instead, drones duel in the sky far above and the effects are never felt down on the ground beyond the occasional explosion of color or sound from the clouds. The drones have grown so advanced that their offensive and defensive capabilities nullify one another leading to a seemingly eternal stalemate. I wish I could recall the name as I remember enjoying it (even though I'm sure I'm butchering the details).

Eric

Very Gundam Wing.

SB

Bendett is a MIC grifter that found a way to leverage his knowledge of Russian to sell his "analysis" which consists of regurgitating what he read in various Telegram channels, both Ukrainian and Russian. He has no apparent background to actually analyze anything or any unique sources of information. Just another Michael Koffman. That's the level of analysis in today's empire for you.

Jeff Normal

I agree with everything you said….but it seems like BOTH parties are soooo excited about stoking the flames of war with PRC. I get that’s it’s mostly just to help out their bosses in the lobbying industry, but I’m also worried that modern politicians listen to comment threads on YouTube more than they listen to military advisers. Even military advisers, these days, how many of them are just yes men. When was the last time anyone brought up the “Millennium Challenge War Exercise” to an American President?

Mickey Keller

Hello all, new listener here. Anyone able to point me towards a good podcast ep of any podcast providing an overview of drone warfare, how it has changed war, what it means for the future of war etc?

Steven Thomas

This post is dedicated to the brave Dronejahideen fighters of Ukraine