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Radio War Nerd EP #593 — American Prestige Crossover (Patreon)

Published:
2026-03-27 22:41:02
Imported:
2026-03
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Co-hosts: American PrestigeRecorded: March 27, 2026

We're joined by Danny Bessner and Derek Davison of American Prestige for our first crossover ep to discuss the US-Israel war on Iran and the condition of the American Empire.

Subscribe to American Prestige and Derek's newsletter Foreign Exchanges. Buy Danny's new book (he edited and wrote the intro): Cold War Liberalism: Power in a Time of Emergency

Total time: 1:20:17Direct link to this episode's mp3 here

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Buy & review John Dolan's new book, They Should Have Been Hanged: War Nerd Essays on the U.S. Civil War

Subscribe to Radio War Nerd at patreon.com/radiowarnerd

Sound production by Telescope Audio

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Comments

Mark Philip

Friday night gift! Much love

Taggart Wass

Thanks for the great discussion!

John Waaben

Needed this major nerd chat rn

Aiden

Hell yeah

ggmacd

Hell yeah

Schaeffer Mallory

Synergy level readings off the chart, do more of these!!!

Michael Cousins

It was hilarious to hear Mark describe foreigners’ screaming fits about the second election of GW. I am a white US American and I was living in Thailand at the time attending a UW nursing program at Chiang Mai University. First off I have to say Thais do not discuss politics with foreigners except in extremely circumscribed situations, but when the election of Bush occurred for a second time, many Thai people asked me in very serious tones “why did your country reelect him? What is wrong?” It was very shocking to me that they broke their political shell to even ask and then it was even more shocking when I tried to explain how stupid Americans are. They would just look at me in blank disbelief.

Hugo

Danny with some whack takes today. USSR was weak. OK, why did it fight the US standstill in Korea and was clearly the most dominant military force in World War II? North Korea depends heavily in China? The world all became capitalist except for North Korea? Fukiyana is right about liberalism? Talk about L after L.

showlistener

I think Mark is wrong regarding where the threat to Israel's undying support is going to come from. It's not coming from the right. At every age group, ethnicity, income level, etc. republican voters show more support for Israel than democratic voters

NYCM&AHole

American prestige are my enemies. Dummy bessner

ggmacd

From what I understand Danny's an international relations (IR) guy, and IR is a field that operates at such a high level of abstraction that marxist analysis has a really hard time retaining any vitality or dynamism within it. Marxist analysis is great when you want to understand the material reality behind big wobbly abstractions like GDP, for example. You have much less room to generate insight with a marxist analysis when you have to take something like GDP at face value as the material grounding for your argument. It can lead to some pretty weird takes because it's such a difficult line to walk.

xasquim

Bless your soul, Bessner was being sarcastic

zo

Why?

NYCM&AHole

I’ve been feuding with them since they launched the podcast. When it was on Patreon they actually blocked me because they’re Slava Ukraine shills

Luckyluca

I think he was joking

Ander Pierce

Looking forward to this one!

Kauai

You talk about burning out vs fading away, but no mention of the more probable outcome of internal collapse.

Camden

Someone tell Danny that his need to prove how smart he is leads to him frequently saying too much whether asking a question or giving an answer

Jack Sylvia

The crossover we all were waiting for, great episode

K

Hot take: A lot may be said about China's revolutions in green energy and the simultaneous decline of American cultural, industrial, and military capacity. Sadly I think these young American Prestige guests, like the ruling class in America that Mark talks about, are unaware of global energy dependence on fossil hydrocarbons. With the destruction of Gulf State LNG infrastructure, US-CAN-AUS now control the vast majority of LNG trade. Canada and Australia will always side with the US sphere. This bloc is only rivalled by Russia. Without any LNG whatsoever, after a couple of years many agricultural and industrial processes would be impossible and billions of people would starve. And there are no substitutes for this small but critical chokepoint of the global economy. The US Empire is doing what it is doing to Cuba not because it hates socialism, but because Cuba is an example to the rest of the world of the leverage the empire has. The global economy could be orders of magnitude more green and less dependent on fossil fuels. But it will always have some dependency as long as there is a global industrial civilization. I think that, especially compared to the basket-case '70s, America has and will continue to have the most leverage over the global economy than it has had since 1945 because of this now monopoly that has only really developed in the last 10 years. I would almost wager that the American deep state does not care if the Iran war continues as a relatively low-cost bombing campaign for years as long as it keeps the Persian Gulf severed. Trump is a sacrificial idiot for this project. With the dawn of this war the Gulf States, Europe, and Asia, have suddenly lost all their economic leverage over the US and Anglosphere. There are now no threats to their global economic hegemony.

Cea Weaver

Generally always found their podcast to be lackluster, and this pod was lackluster generalistic takes. But it is curious to hear their world outlook, "Open Marxists" who think the Soviet Union was never a "real rival" and that Stalin gave up on "world revolution early on", but China which has been scared of the shadow of the 7th Fleet and is entirely boxed in will be the new "regional power" and showcases more of a challenge. That type of mystification based on vague quants around globally fictitious commercial exchange is very interesting. Keep reading Hal Draper boys.

drizzly_november

I’ve noticed you post about this before, and I personally find Bessner pretty irritating, but I’ve never got the sense from their Ukraine coverage they were pro-NATO at all. If anything he’s been pretty pessimistic about any aid to Ukraine. Genuinely curious what stuck out to you.

William

Stuck between Iraq and a hard place more like

William

I think it’s pretty crazy to suggest that Rome wasn’t the US equivalent of its day. It’s a relative comparison because there wasn’t any globe-bestriding empires until the first one showed up… his little outline speech just makes me think he hasn’t read any good comparative sociology that doesn’t bend the knee to the existing blob consensus

William

“China is hands off” why the fuck would they intervene??

NYCM&AHole

The 2022 framing was very state dept and whitewashing of maidan. Maybe they softened after blocking me for calling them out and they realized that I’m right and they’re sus Biden state dept adjacent shills

William

I think there is a misconception about American economic power- it’s productive capacity is mostly decentralized across the globe. Taking stock of the foreign assets owned by us multinational corporations would give you a better idea

Aidan Coffey

My guess is they go after kharg Island next Friday. The idiots in Washington will try a repeat of their initial strategy and seize the island over the weekend before the markets open. The Iranians are undoubtedly ready for this hare brained strategy

John Miller

One silver lining from the unfortunate dumbass collapse of the American empire is some of the most powerful podcast to ever exist

Sam

that bessner guy sure can yap huh

Baron

The less I have to hear that smug moron Bessner, the happier my life is. Skipping this one, wish you just had Derek on, leave the Scoop Jackson chair of lib studies off the show in the future.

JoR

While that’s true , if a significant portion of the younger right don’t support Israel, even if not the majority, wouldn’t tha be a big deal long term? And even if the younger ones “support” Israel, it isn’t necessarily at the unapologetic level that boomers did

Alex Payne

Ay love the crossover! Would love to see more with all of y'all

Eoin Daly

I don't understand why Danny said that the middle East would be in America's sphere of influence. How's it going to be theirs with all their bases blown up and their navy afraid to come withim 1000 miles?

Perry Lopez

Yeah and even more jarring he was actually saying something of substance. Luckily we got back to Mark making an incoherent point about how militarism was as unpopular as segregation in the eighties, and then John got to tell a story about walking his dog.

showlistener

It is a big deal long term but young republicans support Israel at much higher rates than young democrats. That's one reason why I don't think it's true that the threat to Israel's undying support is coming from the right, the much bigger threat is coming from the left. Quite frankly most of if not all of their future support is coming from the right.

Sam

Sounds like you aren’t a huge fan of the pod in the first case if you don’t like these types of digressions

Bob

One of the better episodes you guys have done IMO Please more crossovers.

Jason Thompson

I think right wing anti Israel stuff is nice at least because right wingers are more likely to listen to other right wingers. It’s nice to have inbetween elections. But yeah, despite that, I am not seeing it have any effect on Republican politicians, besides Massie of course, and Paul I guess, and Greene who gave up and quit. The rest are uniformly pro Israel.

CR

I hate to harp on it, but read “Turbo America.” Talk to Glenn. Talk to Aurnaud. Even though he calls them r-slurs, Nic reads them because not reading conflicting views in good faith turns you into a bubble-headed loser like everyone in the Blob. It’s the quintessential “Heart-breaking: the worst person you know is right.” Of course, the U.S. empire is in decline compared to where it has been in the 90s or under Obama. But its power increased more than in the 90s in spite of Russia’s rebound and China’s growth because it controls the Internet and controls global information and only lost that total ownership recently with GPS replacements and Chinese AI, and even those are severely limited. The U.S. will still control the world in 2100. It may not be to the same extent as now, and it won’t be in the same way, but it will be there when we’re gone. I also take great insult at this “end of ideology” shit the guests peddled because it’s only applicable to the U.S. and its vassals and it’s only applicable to us until it isn’t. Ideology in BRICS and other countries is still a thing, and thinking that ideology and religion and culture and so forth don’t matter IN AN EPISODE FRAMED AROUND IRAN is so short-sighted I have to assume you’re either being intentionally obtuse or you all are actually idiots. I know you’re not, but this is just you not pushing back against guests. And if these aren’t guests you could push back against, who the fuck do you want to and are willing to push back against?

T

Solid as Iraq

T

How did Mark digress so far into the fall of the American military post Vietnam and not name check Stripes

etienne

Fukuyama was right all along it was just funny to dunk on him for the "end of history" quote that completely distords his work

etienne

it's not that I don't like those kind of digressions it's just that I'd like to hear *other* ones

Lojban Chauvinist

How's your experience in the Mamdani admin been so far, and what's your outlook?

Lojban Chauvinist

How, by paratroopers from Kuwait or what? How do they resupply?

Ky Tapp

Great ep. Would have liked to hear a bit more of the perspective about Israel in Syria and Lebanon. And not sure if it’s no ideology or just no competing ideology in the west?

Lojban Chauvinist

This is very interesting. Why do you say that the American ruling class is unaware of global energy dependence on fossil fuels (esp. considering your "almost wager")?

K

Thank you for bringing this up. I’m referring to the political class being unaware of energy. I think the deep state has always been aware and remains aware. Look at the Iraq war prosecuted by Bush, an insider to the deep state with a family background in oil. We tend to see the war as a costly American defeat and humiliation. This may be true. But a lot of the cost was just money on a balance sheet that ultimately got shuffled from taxpayers to factions in the national security state. And the war itself ultimately protected American economic hegemony in the Middle East region compared to the Ba’athist vision.

Lojban Chauvinist

People should not expect protests. America has done many, many wars (and/or "bombing campaigns") without arousing any protest at all. How big were the protests during Operation Desert Fox (1998) or the bombings of Yugoslavia, or the Gulf War, for that matter? How about the Afghanistan War? I'm sure there were protests against that war over a period of twenty years, but they must not have made much of a difference, because I've never heard of them. And, I think it's fair to say in hindsight, the vaunted Iraq War protests failed... So maybe leftists just learned their lesson, that protests are usually a waste of energy.

hamburglar

Because China and Russia are unlikely to fill the vacuum in the way that America does

etienne

you folks are intentionally being dense. He was saying that China decided to not get involved which leaves the US as the main actor in the region, which is actually factually true given that the US sphere of influence includes Israel, the entire GCC, Turkey, more or less Iraq, etc, and basically no other big power player is in the picture, now that Russia left Syria to its own devices

Rhys Hayes

Genuine question: does anyone else find Danny Bessner exhausting and repetitive? I've tried listening to him on many podcasts over many years, hoping that he'll learn the art of distilling his ideas down to a conversational essence, but he insists on approaching every answer - and question! - like a flustered student trying to hit their minimum word count. It's the reason I stopped listening to American Prestige, and it's such a shame, because that could be a fantastic show if only Derek and their guests were given a bit more room to participate

J P 3

I don't see how the U.S. maintains a hold on the Middle East, given the absurd economic cost involved. I have to think that the next logical step is going to be a pivot back to the hemisphere, where we attempt to regroup after a strategic failure. In order to sustain the current burn rate in the Middle East, are we going to pivot to a war economy, impose Great Depression-Eisenhower tax rates? Seems unlikely. Politically I don't think a drawn out war in the Middle East is sustainable either. Of course all of this is uncertain, but if the Republican Party gets creamed in the 2026 mid-terms, as looks very likely, I think there are going to be significant recriminations within the party, especially as it pertains to the U.S.-Israel relationship. Those tensions are already playing out within the Democratic Party, and will influence the direction of policy in the region. Those issues won't be resolved in a couple election cycles, but especially the longer the war drags on and the higher the costs, I have to imagine the more damage it is going to do to the "special relationship". As far as China is concerned, I would have to imagine that they are involved in some capacity in Iran, as this war is a great chance to analyze and test out the capabilities and vulnerabilities of some of the U.S.'s most advanced weapons systems.

J P 3

Also, as to Danny's point that the U.S. is unique globally in its protestant "millenarian" view of the world, I'm not exactly an expert in Shia Islam, but isn't there something in Twelver community about the Hidden Imam that has echoes of protestant millenarianism?

Kawaii Leonard

when the podcast mentions El Cerrito, Pinole, and other North Contra Costa County locales, I’m pumping my fist like Tiger Woods

John

32:00 regarding empire in decline imo its hard not to see the wheels coming off the USA. Has any empire had 2 consecutive leaders who have dementia ??

Conor

Donnie vs the Tellurian Lube

cyberbasque

Eagerly waiting for new Rob Ashlar ep to drop

cyberbasque

Davison needs to install a shock collar on him, nothing less will make instruction stick

John Waaben

Israel is the big chess piece for the U.S. there

Eoin Daly

The US is already chased out of Iraq and the GCC counties, and Israels days are numbered

Eoin Daly

The Persian gulf is going to be Irans sphere of influence, China and Russia aren't needed

etienne

okay so if you imagine a completely ficticious far out scenario in your brain that might come true in a couple decades then the original statement you flagged will have become false. Good! Glad we're on the same page here

Jason Thompson

Isn't Venezuela basically an example of a successful “decapitation strike”?

Internet Alias

I suppose what you are getting at is that EU and Asia are now cut off from any LNG supply that doesn't come from the USA, and that is a major issue for the Chinese specifically sonce they are the main target in the American crosshairs. Its true that their alternative energy innovation is proceeding well apace, but far from complete, and that there are basically infinite commodities aside from energy that rely on fossil fuel extraction. But what is to stop them from getting those commodities from Russia? I suppose there is significant infrastructure that would need to be developed, but that doesn't seem like a catastrophic impediment to me. The rest of the world which is already firmly in the US sphere of influence anyway has no real alternative, but as Chinese R&D in alternative energy continues apace can't they just slowly peel off these nations from the US block by exporting these technologies and infrastructure? Most of the other commodities built off of fossil fuels can just be exported from China as finished goods anyway so I don't see how this still doesn't lead to long term decline in the US empires global hegemony. I don't see a direct war with China ever taking place following this fiasco which would disrupt these trends. Am I missing something?

Michael Ehrenreich

In one sense, yes, in another sense. Not at all. The Bolivarian regime continued on without only one change at the top.

aqueous_steve

I’ve been trying to get ahold of John’s Pleasant Hell for ages as someone who grew up a few towns over I want to know what his take is so badly (granted I was in the 90s but still)

aqueous_steve

These are questions the us military doesnt have answers to either but that doesnt mean they wont try it anyway

Alex

Just chiming in - I liked that digression, though! Made me wonder if this really is a marker of a great decline or a psuedo-decline like Mark was mentioning - if I understood correctly. The inertia of the empire may keep the machinery going for longer than we think. (Editting to add that I also liked the dog story!)

Alex

Enjoyed the Starmer thread. Would buy tickets to watch the wimp-off, & the smart money will be on Starmer ofc.

JoR

This may be a bit simplistic but I think assassinations and decapitation strikes are popular with trump and co because it’s good homeland PR. Our leaders also believe it “works”. But, the normies get excited when “we kill bad guys”. Iran could continue to be the worlds biggest disaster and ruin peoples savings, but for many Americans, we hit the mullahs, so it’s all worth it… lol

JoR

I know almost nothing about Rome but didn’t they have a handful of really stupid leaders in the last 100 years? Also, not to defend Biden or trump, but I’d argue a lot of their worst decisions are established norms for our elite lol

JoR

My only counter argument is there could be anti war protests , but only if and when AMERICAN casualties happen. What you said is correct, but looking back, even t he minor anti war protests in the 60s, and whatever happened for Iraq, the general sentiment was “Americans are dying pointlessly”

JoR

I think you’re misconstruing what their point was on ideology. Those who oppose the US may have internal ideologies , like legit any group of humans ever lol. But there isn’t an overarching ideology like “communism” was, and even that was mostly just a way to frame nationalism for many places lol. What common sense”ideology” does India, Brazil, Iran and Russia have? These places could not be any different culturally and religiously

JoR

The us still has its vassals/proxies like the gulf states . Israel isn’t a proxy nor does it solely “run America” but they ain’t going anywhere either . In almost any way this war ends, no matter how disastrous, who cares if a bunch of based and infrastructure are tarnished? These countries are not kicking the us out even if they want to

JoR

Substance is fine, Perry, and I mostly agreed with him. But as someone else said, he rambled like a college student trying to add words to his essay. Yes the co hosts of this show can get “distracted” with their tangents, but their overall points are much more clear and concise . Less is more please

Aidan Coffey

Considering they entered this war with like three weeks of ammunition I bet the supply plan for a ground offensive is uber eats.

parker

This is literally Robert papes thesis on why politicians became enamored with smart bombs lmao

ggmacd

Would venture there is also a big element of it being an extremely "have your cake and eat it, too" approach to warfare in that decapitation looks incredible in a risk/reward matrix, especially if you squint really hard at it.

ggmacd

I had to share this (goofy) jerusalem post article as something that 1) is an example of a lot of the good arguments here in this episode about imperial decline and 2) challenges some other notions that have gone a bit stale. (https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-891291) 1) This is about how mossad has been integrating AI for about 5 years in its operations, making it an early adopter of this stuff. It was used to generate target lists in Gaza (to horrifying effect - https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/), and also in this war. We have a decent sense of the individual effects of over-reliance on AI ("cognitive surrender") but less of a sense of its effects on organizational functioning over time. This could potentially be a much larger factor in israeli strategy looking the way it does, and possibly in a way we have never seen before and therefore don't recognize yet. 2) the AI-powered intelligence strategy was heavy on the notion that AI could be used to foment an uprising in Iran. Say what you will about israel being more cynical than the US in its approach to the conflict, but this bit of information makes it look less canny than a lot of observers are giving it credit for. Of course, AI also enables cynicism through an offloading of responsibility onto a machine, but it's still a very pertinent question how much netanyahu, the mossad, etc. actually bought into the intelligence this system generated. Because it is shockingly stupid! But hey, maybe that's what 5 years of running an intelligence service on AI does to a mf. Hopefully there are historians around to figure this one out after the fact.

CML

Yes what an awful fucking episode

CML

Who are these insufferable poncy morons and why are they on the show?

showlistener

Can the war nerds in the comments help me out with something? It's my understanding that: A) the US/Israel can't stop Iran from manufacturing and launching drones. B) Iran's drones have a range of hundreds of miles. C) it only takes a few drones a day to shut down the strait. If all of the above is correct why do some people think a few thousand marines and paratroopers are going to reopen the strait? Do they think that once they're in position (if they can even do that) they'll magically shoot down 100% of the drones? And the mines and ballistic missiles won't be an issue either?

Tariq

Derek Davison is one of my favorite people but I cannot listen to American Prestige because of Danny. Still, looking forward to listening to this.

Ander Pierce

I think it is pure magical thinking

Jason Thompson

Wait, lemme get this straight. Are Ultra Orthodox Israelis unwilling to join the army on religious grounds but they’re fine with personally assaulting and killing Palestinians in the West Bank?? These are the same guys??

Jason Thompson

So they don’t have a problem with the military for the violence? They just don’t like having to have jobs?

Ander Pierce

Think about it, you get the best of both worlds. You get to destroy the 'enemy' and you don't have to fight. Besides, if the non-Orthodox go into the meat grinder their population is diminished while your own is not. Gross? Absolutely.

Timmy V

Can't wait for the creation of the Burgerlaw

Ethan Smith

I broke my arm and have had my days filled with painful PT, something about the intensity of this podcast mixed with the laid back conversational nature has helped me alot, cheers guys

Quinn

Mark's fs right about No Kings, you look at the funding, slogans, and "tactics", it's the weird kind of controlled opposition that doesnt even pretend to be otherwise. And it's effective, there's a ton of liberals out there (many well meaning and rightfully angry) who are intoxicated by the crowds and righteous anger because it's their first experience with protests. We've all felt that, hopefully enough of them also go through the phase of disillusionment with the spectacle most of us did. And hopefully all our disillusionment means something lol

Quinn

This guys 19?? Goddamn well good for him and I'm fucking jealous

Graham Isom

Depends on the sect, to some extent yes but there is a difference between Haredim and Dati (who do most of the West Bank violence)

Mids Advocate

Greg Grandin brain here, but Saudi money inflating the asset prices (especially AI) is really the escape valve of neoliberalism (deregulated capital pouring into other nations economies and destroying them in the long run) coming home.

Schaeffer Mallory

The absence of anti war protests is disturbing, but not that surprising. There is serious burnout from Gaza solidarity and national guard + ice deployment. It's Trump's strategy to flood the zone, and it works, but I don't think it's helpful to overthink or get too heady about why there's no anti war protests happening. This is also a very surreal "war." Once troops hit the ground and then the coffins, protests will erupt

Schaeffer Mallory

And fwiw, I would hope there is also some degree of recognition among whoever the serious nationally connected leftist orgs are that protest movements are an absolute dead end, and they do nothing but put otherwise useful people into a spiral of rage and helplessness from which there is no escape. We need a massive, serious, well funded left anti war populist 3rd party, anything and everything else is doomed

JoR

You aren’t missing anything lol. Like they said in this episode, there wasn’t even a pretext of a contingency plan. The “instant victory” in Venezuela seemed to convince trump he could do the same thing in Iran, sans the kidnapping part

Rhys Hayes

Which book/article/Substack are you talking about? I can't find any reference to it on Google, unfortunately

Maggie+Al

You have to assume that for Israel the idea that personnel changes might deliver them a strategic victory is down stream of how Nasser's early death bennifited them

High On Cheese

I hate to and never post anything online, in any context, but as an academic who used to teach an Empires course, I had to share how much I enjoyed this episode. The connections between this latest overreach and the US as a historical imperial project, and how it compares to other Empires was genuinely insightful and fascinating. I want to share it with everyone I know, particularly Dem-brained academic friends. Could this be unlocked? I think its piercing view of the past and possible future of Imperial power would be really informative and useful to a lot of people at a time when there is a heap of interest in this space (from non-nerds). I’m sure the American Prestige boys would support an unlock too! Anyway, I’m a recent subscriber and am loving the feed, lads. Thanks!

RT

“Limited hangout” I think was the phrase mark was searching for about an hour in

Nic Bodiford

Gonna need a source on Iraqi Shia assassin cult, team! Wanna learn more about that.

Ben

He was joking

Ben

I went to go follow Danny on X and he has me blocked lol. I’m a literal nobody

Pranjal Dwivedi

The Bolivarian regime is also speaking at a Saudi sponsored conference in Miami, so yes 6 one way half a dozen the other

Quinn

Oh lol

Corbin

Agreed, I’d love to share this one.