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Guest: Yasha Levine, author & journalist

Recorded February 4, 2018

The War Nerd talks to investigative journalist Yasha Levine about his controversial new book, "Surveillance Valley" about the inseparable relationship between the Internet industry and US military-intelligence. Levine dives deep into the origins of the Internet, designed by Pentagon researchers to create an all-seeing counterinsurgency weapon in wars abroad, and against protest movements home in the USA. Fifty years ago, student radicals protested the early Internet as a Big Brother weapon of oppression; today, young "radicals" in the Internet Freedom movement promote this Pentagon weapon as a force for liberation and revolution against the same Big Brother state. Levine explains how these paradoxes came to be—and why Snowden's revelations about government spying on the Internet revealed not a bug in the system that can be "fixed", but rather the whole purpose of the Internet system from the start. Grim, hopeless & fascinating. 

Buy Yasha Levine's book "Surveillance Valley: The Secret Military History of the Internet" and check out his book tour! 

Total time: 2:51:46

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here 

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Comments

Darryl Cooper

It's getting to where I look forward to these episodes like Christmas.

Karl Knight

At 120 episodes, I can't say whether or not this makes my top ten favorite but it definitely makes the top twelve. That's 90th percentile! Keep it up, comrades!

realBriannaWu

Great show as always. One thought I had...not so much a criticism as my own understanding of how this stuff works. The internet programs used to punch through the Iranian firewall that Yasha describes at 17:00 would just be VPN services, correct? Another thing...while it's true that Iran has started cracking down on TOR/Deepweb stuff, as of recently TOR recorded ~10,000 users in Iran. It was only about 6,000 in 2017.

Benjamin Glover

You totally need to put a preview up of this. Maybe the Vietnam/Cold War section.

Larry Dimes

All I can say is that I'm shocked that Dune didn't get mentioned this episode. "Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them."

Thomas Jennings

Has anyone listened to the 'Voices from DARPA' podcast? It is an in-house podcast where each month or so a program manager is interviewed about what they are working on. Of course, they speak about their projects in broad terms (although some projects are mentioned by name), but if you can read between the lines some familiar threads start to appear. I am currently listening to episode 9: The Datamancer, which may be of particular interest to anyone who enjoyed this RWN episode with Yasha.

Kleixa

I have a lot of abstract things to say about the dark net from a consumer side vs a vendor side. Essentially I think that it is a honeypot, but that they are much more interested in the Pooh Bears who want to wholesale drugs than in the wasps who want to buy for personal use. That said, that environment has degraded a whole bunch over the last 6 or so years and you'd have to be really optimistic to think it is safe for anyone at this point.

Timoteo Cozinheiro

Tell Patreon to fix their audio platform. It is disfunctional.