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Radio War Nerd EP #149—Uyghur Oppression (Patreon)

Published:
2018-09-19 13:51:58
Imported:
2026-06
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Guest: Carl Zha, podcaster

Recorded September 14, 2018

To make sense of the alarming reports coming out of China about mass oppression of Uyghurs and millions forced into reeducation camps in the western Xinjiang province, the War Nerd talks to Carl Zha, who walks us through the little-reported history of the region, and helps us sort out today's myths from the truth. 

Carl Zha has previously appeared on Radio War Nerd episodes: EP 74: Taiping Rebellion; EP 81: Early Uyghur History; EP 83: Uyghur History Pt. 2: Battle of Talas; EP 90: First Sino-Japanese War; EP 94: Romance of the Three Kingdoms; EP 108: Uyghur Separatism Today; EP 113: Rape of Nanking 

Check out Carl Zha's podcast CLASH! 

Total time: 3:06:32

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here 

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Comments

MoldyTolge

Been thinking for a while now "wish Carl could help me sort out what's psyop and what's not" when it's come to his situation. He continues to be one of your most articulate and intelligent returning guests. 🌚Luv you Carl🌝

Crazy B0nkers

Regarding sources, AFAIK only Al-Monitor and Daily Hurriyet ever reliably mention the dark jihadi side of the uighur struggle. And for good reason. In recent years uighur djihadis turned out to be responsible for terrorist attacks in Turkey and Thailand, and others were arrested in Turkey and around Asia in connection with terrorist plots. So Erdogan's indiscriminate adopt-a-uighur free passport policy blew back, like seemingly most of his genius schemes. "Feed a jihadi and he will bite you in the bum" were the famous last words of an unnamed official.

Crazy B0nkers

Oh, and I do recommend Carl and Nathan's podcast. They're doing a great job at untying big balls of historical and political knots.

JoR

Carl is a great guest as always. It's hard to "complain" about any guest and the vast amount of knowledge they bring on the topic but personally I miss the episodes where it's just John and Mark hashing it out, especially when the episode focuses on world at war like the first string of episodes. Obviously the show can't deny a guest when they're available since they're all busy too but especially if the idlib offensive opens up it'd be nice to have an episode focusing on that. Or maybe an episode focusing on theaters of war RWN is basically alone in discussing like Congo or other sub Sahara African conflicts.

Paul Vd

I gotta carry over some Skripal suspect news from the previous thread. These guys had a prostitute at their hotel and smoked marijuana in London. That's why these clowns were acting suspicious. Ppl talk like the Church spire is just a joke but how do you really know ? I've seen thick necked mother fuckers train spotting FFS. How do you really know ? It's big world. Ppl like doing and seeing stuff

Sérgio Teixeira da Silva

You tell me whether I'm misremembering something, but I think I remember the knife attacks by Uyghurs being covered by mainstream mainstream media when they happened, and both the separatist and Islamist motives being mentioned. (They're somewhat forgotten now.)

Sérgio Teixeira da Silva

I don't begrudge any episode having been guestless - some of the very best (including but not restricted to #21, #34, #75, #77, #129) were. But I don't see how an episode's improved by it - even with the advantages of an episode between old friends, it was Yasha that used the word "bardak" in the podcast - so, more Yasha! :D On an Idlib offensive, Carl himself has been following that and could contribute, and (if available) Isa Blumi certainly could even more. John & Mark have been *sadly* basically alone about Sub-Saharan Africa, but thanks to <a href="https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-05-19/how-shortwave-radio-network-helping-counter-boko-haram," rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-05-19/how-shortwave-radio-network-helping-counter-boko-haram,</a> I've come to know the works of <a href="https://www.radiookapi.net/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.radiookapi.net/</a> and <a href="https://www.dandalkura.com/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.dandalkura.com/</a> , which I think RWN should try to contact.

Sérgio Teixeira da Silva

Can you edit "East Turkestan Republics" into the title or description? Because besides the current affairs, that was the major chapter to Uyghur history that'd been missing. Statistically, there's gotta be at least 1 person still not aware, so: Carl had made (and it's free) a previous podcast episode on the Uyghur situation at <a href="https://www.patreon.com/posts/ep-55-trouble-on-21205934">https://www.patreon.com/posts/ep-55-trouble-on-21205934</a>. It doesn't have the early 20th century history that's here, but it went into greater detail on the current situation, including a story of the CCP forbidding employment of Uyghurs. An episode on the Dzungar Genocide would be good, not just for it being direly underknown, but also for some coverage of what the Mongols did between the Yuan dynasty and the 20th century, including what they did as Tibetan Buddhists (also, the existence of Mongol Buddhists in Eastern Europe - how well does Mark know Kalmykia?). Unlike the other minorities with "autonomous" regions, the Mongols already started out as a minority (amid Han) because they negotiated a large, partly-industrialized area, with however many Han it took. Also, many of them already didn't spoke Mongolian (like the Manchus, for the same reasons). "Patois", Carl? Racist! More than Crimean Tatars and Chechens, there's a lot of Circassians in Turkey (and a non-trivial amount of Circassian blood in Turks, not just from those who fled Russian expansion, but as one of the (sexual) slave sources favored by Ottomans). Does anyone knows whether the Uyghurs have been having any problems with reduced runoff from melting glaciers or desertification? On the Hui: <a href="https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2145939/how-china-trying-impose-islam-chinese-characteristics" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2145939/how-china-trying-impose-islam-chinese-characteristics</a> .

Crazy B0nkers

You're correct. The mainstream media did cover the Kunming knife attack, and originally there were questions about a possible link with ISIS etc, but the reporting changed very quickly. More often than not the attackers were characterized as "muslim separatists" with little or no explicit mention of jihadism, and an emphasis on the Chinese oppression of the Uyghurs (you can check the BBC, CNN, or The Guardian and try to find the word "radical"). As far as I can remember, the first (and last) actual mentions of "Uyghur radical muslims" appeared in the UK media after the 2015 Bangkok bombings.

Stefan

Another great and insightful episode with Carl 👍🏻

Sérgio Teixeira da Silva

I think "Muslim separatist" is generally not removed from "jihadi" by any degree worth noting, but ... you're right insofar as the presentation matters. (Which it does.)

AJ

Wow I was thoroughly impressed by Carl and his knowledge of Islam and different sects. He’s such an intelligent podcaster and I hope you bring him on again to discuss China Pakistan Economic Corridor in full details.