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Radio War Nerd EP #155 — Turkey in World War I (Patreon)

Published:
2018-10-31 20:38:43
Imported:
2026-06

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Recorded: October 29, 2018

We're nearing the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I, so the War Nerd decided to cover the most important front(s) least covered — the Ottoman Empire's many fronts, from the Mediterranean to the Caucasus, Palestine and present-day Iraq . . . and the Armenian genocide.

* Maps

* First & Second Balkan Wars, 1912-13

* Ottoman-Russia Caucasus Campaigns, 1914-16

* Dardanelles/Gallipoli 

* Ottoman-British campaigns in Middle East

* British-Indian invasion of Ottoman Iraq

* Armenian Genocide

* Post-war Ottoman Turkey, zones of occupation

* Nationalist Turkey's "Wars of Independence" 1919-22

Total time: 2:13:26

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here 

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Comments

Henry

The Adventures of Dunsterforce is a nice little book about the weird chaos of near end war Caucus region and Persia (it's got Bolsheviks, whites, deserters, Kurds, Baku oilfields, north Iranian bandits/nationalists--this was really interesting to read after studying Iran's 1911 Constitutional Revolution) <a href="https://www.amazon.com/adventures-Dunsterforce-Lionel-Charles-Dunsterville-ebook/dp/B00I8QMNCQ/ref=sr_1_1_twi_kin_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1541037945&sr=8-1&keywords=the+adventures+of+dunsterforce" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/adventures-Dunsterforce-Lionel-Charles-Dunsterville-ebook/dp/B00I8QMNCQ/ref=sr_1_1_twi_kin_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1541037945&sr=8-1&keywords=the+adventures+of+dunsterforce</a>

Avery

Was that a Europa Universalis reference at 22:00?

Nick

The Fall of the Ottomans by Eugene Rogan provides a pretty comprehensive overview of the period discussed, the political context, the different fronts, etc. definitely worth a read. I hope you do more Turkey episodes in the future like Mark said, it’s such a fascinating country. Also, definitely invite Isa Blumi back on, his episode on Yemen/Gulf Monarchies was maybe the best RWN ep thus far.

Adam Walters

Re Bolsonaro's support, there's been a bit of attention paid over here to Afro-Brazilian or mixed race football/soccer players endorsing him (Ronaldinho, Cafu, Lucas Moura, Felipe Melo, Neymar giving hints about it). I know Ronaldinho and Neymar at least are evangelical (then again all of them are also very rich, which might be a bigger factor).

MoldyTolge

Always good to increase visibility of the Armenian genocide. I used to write off Turkey's in the first world war because they were on the losing side so it's interesting to get some in depth discussion and discover overall their performance was golf-clap worthy.

MoldyTolge

God I hope so. I'd bump my contribution to $20 a month if there was a War Nerd Paradox Interactive Lets Play.

The Fakir (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 15:00 A book the audience here will find interesting is the novel "Ali and Nino" which is set in Baku in WW1. It was written by an educated jewish man who styled himself an oriental prince in Vienna after the war. It tells the story of a romance between an Azeri man and a Georgian woman on the periphery of a great war. The portrayal of Armenians, Russians, Persians and Turks was a revelation (Enver Pasha makes a small entrance, I recall) as was the fact that this odd but fascinating novel is the official book of Azerbaijan.
2018-11-01 19:27

Chris Burton

This podcast made me think of a couple books I read a few years and many, many War Nerd podcasts ago. "A Peace to End All Peace" gave what I remember being some interesting insight into the happenings within and eventual disintegration of the Ottoman Empire. The part I remember best was how misguided British intelligence and thinking was (surprise). English policy makers could not for the life of them figure out why the Arabs were revolting against British occupation following the end of WWI. I think they actually settled on chalking it up to a Bolshevik conspiracy. Typical Western elites - can't understand why people don't want to be ruled by them & when in doubt, blame the Russians. I also vaguely remember the author claiming the Ottoman forts along the Dardanelles were initially out of ammunition when the British navy first arrived for the Gallipoli campaign, but the admirals were too timid to advance and advocated for the land invasion (slaughter) that eventually ensued. I would love if someone more knowledgeable could confirm or deny that. The other book was "Lawrence In Arabia" which followed the actions of four protagonists in the Middle East throughout this time period. One was a German spy named Curt Prufer who seduced/recruited one of Chaim Weizmann’s sisters to spy for the Germans. Another was Aaron Aaronsohn, a Jewish botanist living in Palestine who helped work for Nili, which was a Jewish spy organization that was relaying military intelligence on the Ottomans to the Brits for their campaign through Palestine. Wild stuff IMO. Like I said, been a while since I've read them, and I wish I could speak to them better in relation to the podcast, but someone out there might find them interesting/useful, or just complete gibberish : )

Paul Vd

He wasn't really a US regime change candidate though was he ?

James Christensen

Really enjoying this book, thanks for recommendation

Henry

If you're looking to do a show on Southern Africa, Martin Meredith would be a great guest. He was reporting from Rhodesia/Zimbabwe in 1979 and wrote a really good book called "The Past is a Another Country". It was published before Mugabe took over, but you can tell the writing is on the wall. He also has a great book on Cecil Rhodes and the South African gold rush.

mark

Bring back Isa Blumi.

teh_drewski

One thing to note is the Australian independence was effectively colonial efficiency rather than anything else - Australia had no effective independent foreign policy until well after WW1. So what Australia was doing in Turkey was effectively defending the interests of the Empire, which Australia strongly considered itself still part of. The Gallipoli campaign is commemorated in part because it created the idea of Australian nationalism beyond the interests of the Empire, as it was really the first time Australians realised that Britain considered them a disposable resource rather than an equal.

Borvis

I thought "A Peace to End All Peace" was a pretty good book on Turkey, the Young Turks, and WWI.

DH

Exactly. The British are bad guys and the Turks and ANZACs the good guys in the narrative I was given growing up. Australia had only existed for 14yrs and Gallipoli was the first real military operation conducted by Australian troops. It was a pretty harsh introduction to the real world and that sort of thing sticks with a nation. In WW2 the Kakoda Track campaign is remembered when Australia defended itself against Japanese invasion and it a very significant part of Australian military history. Singapore is remembered but there was nothing gallant about it. The Gallipoli thing is a bit wierd and the commemoration at ANZAC cove each year is just nuts, but that's how it is.

Sérgio Teixeira da Silva

Episodes on Abdelkader (another "hero of 2 worlds") and the Syrian revolts against the French mandate please. Another untold story of WWI in the Ottoman Empire can be found at <a href="http://www.ottomanhistorypodcast.com/2014/08/famine-ottoman-empire-lebanon-anatolia.html" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.ottomanhistorypodcast.com/2014/08/famine-ottoman-empire-lebanon-anatolia.html</a> . On being Brazilian, black, and Evangelical, it's simple: being black lowered your chance of voting for Bolsonaro (mostly for reasons linked to racism, crime, and welfare, not because blacks think radically different from Bolsonaro or "tend to be Leftist"), being Evangelical increases it and from the polls I saw by about the same amount, and most people voted for Bolsonaro, so the 2 factors above cancel each other, making for Bolsonaro voters. BTW, there's also being sportsmen (i.e. likely misogynist) and having *0* relatives dependent on government support (for obvious reasons). So ... why vote for Haddad? Many Ukrainians are migrating to Poland right now, and are usually considered to "integrate well" - complaints about Banderists notwithstanding. On Kurd-Armenian relations in the Ottoman Empire: <a href="http://openaccess.bilgi.edu.tr:8080/xmlui/bitstream/handle/11411/754/Kurdish%20and%20Armenian%20relations%20in%20the%20Ottoman%20Kurdish%20press%20%281898%20-%201914%29.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://openaccess.bilgi.edu.tr:8080/xmlui/bitstream/handle/11411/754/Kurdish%20and%20Armenian%20relations%20in%20the%20Ottoman%20Kurdish%20press%20%281898%20-%201914%29.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y</a> . Is it "racism against Arabs" to point out that wherever you find them and they aren't highly Westernized (or Iranian-trained), cultural features can be found that make them suck even at conventional warfare, let alone any other activity than guerrilla? <a href="https://www.meforum.org/articles/other/why-arabs-lose-wars" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.meforum.org/articles/other/why-arabs-lose-wars</a> [Reminder that Najran isn't in the Empty Quarter - nothing is there - but in ... historical Yemen.] On "Jewish infections": it's pretty obvious that Soros, specifically, is infectious. But more importantly, remember: Chelsea Clinton and Ivanka Trump love each other - and couldn't care less about you, no matter which of their fathers you voted for.

Gary Lott

I'm sorry if you've answered this a million times, but is there a place that lists all the books you reference?

Mark Ames

Tried finding a copy. Way too expensive used, doesn't seem available in libraries. Weird.

Henry

Wow, the price really jumped. I got my copy used for about $15 this summer. I'm just up in Albany, so if you all are interested I could mail it down or something pretty easily.

Dark Alliance

Glad you guys like Oliver Stone. You guys should review his movies and have him on your show.

Avery

Yes, one of the listeners made a list at one point, but I can't find it