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Radio War Nerd EP #162 — The Rise & Fall of Sparta (Patreon)

Published:
2018-12-21 16:32:59
Imported:
2026-06
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Guest: Philip Matyszak, author & historian 

Recorded: December 17, 2018

On the eve of the War Nerd's voyage to the New World, we talk to historian Philip Matyszak about ancient Sparta—the ultimate warrior tribe, romanticized by everyone from Plato to Bush-era neocons, and waffendweebs in between — minus the Messenians. Mayszak, who appeared on the popular RWN EP #151 about Athens' disastrous Sicily campaign, discusses with us his two recent and highly recommended (by us) books on Sparta: "Sparta: Rise of a Warrior Nation" and "Sparta: Fall of a Warrior Nation". Lot of surprises and myths debunked. Sparta was essentially a proto-fascist slave state that ruled through terror and cult indoctrination, and eventually decayed into collapse due to the oldest reason of all: Inequality, the concentration of wealth and power into fewer and fewer hands. 

Buy Philip Matyszak's books on Sparta: "Sparta: Rise of a Warrior Nation" and "Sparta: Fall of a Warrior Nation". Read Matyszak's blog.

*Maps:

*Map of Sparta (Laconia) & Messenia, Peloponnese

* Greco-Persian Wars 

*Persian Empire (vs tiny Greece)

*Battle of Thermopylae

*Spartan teenage "education"

*Messenian helots: Sparta's raison d'etre

*The Krypteia: Sparta's teenaged slave-terrorizing Gestapo

Total time: 2:21:51

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here 

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Comments

Paul Vd

(Off topic) Peter Hitchens has a new WW2 book out titled The Phoney Victory. He's doing media to promote the book. He'd be a good interview on his book, Syria and Ukraine.

Jimothy Realname

I probably won't listen to this episode until tomorrow but I would like to issue a formal complaint that 'Over There' is still stuck in my head.

Ellen Harold

I thought the Spartan boy stole a ferret (not fox) to use for hunting. Sanitized version? Wonder what was the origin of that story. Sanitized versions, btw, de rigeur in European Classical pedagogy. At least for children. Prussian admiration for Sparta more to the point than Rousseau’s I imagine.

Ellen Harold

Answered own question. “Fox” story from Plutarch’s Life of Lycurgus (also in his Moralia). Not much of a story, only a passing sentence or two . (Plutarch flourished 45–127 AD).

xnfec

Great as ever! Where does the picture of the Krypteia come from? On Plato, I attended a talk at a local private school a few years ago where the headmaster was keen to state the schools adherance to Plato and his philosophy. He was keen to mention their holistic approach to education. It sounded quite good at the time and I was inclined to overlook his previous history as a speechwriter for Margaret Thatcher. Now, I'm not so sure. The school seemed to replace systemic bullying by forced rugby every day which some of the kids hated. The rationale being that boys cannnot learn anything after 2.00 p.m. It's a shame you didn't spend a little more time on the battle of Leuctra. I recall that the Thebans tactic was to go against tradition and put the their best troops (the golden band) on the left, directly opposite the Spartans. You mentioned the white feather episode in the great war. I believe it may have came from a novel called the four feathers by A.E.W. Mason, published in 1902 the plot of which was to do with supposed cowardice and redemption in the was in Sudan. It was made into a film by Alexander Korda in 1939. Any body remember the Vietnam war film Go Tell the Spartans - title based on Simonedes epitaph to the 300 (though I've heard there were over 1000 there including allies?). Also, everybody hated the Corinthians down to the Romans. Corinth was the only other town literally flattned and salted after defeat apart from Carthage.

Charles

Another wonderful episode.

radiowarnerd

If we didn't hate on the Corinthians enough, it's just because we didn't have time. Everyone wants the Corinthians stomped, it's a law of Newtonian physics.

radiowarnerd

That's a great comment. Thanks very much. We still need to do a reenactment when someone stands there in a linen shirt while somebody shoots arrows at them, because I have trouble believing it. PS not me

Michael S. Judge

(I'm pretty sure the picture is from a graphic novel series called THREE, by Kieron Gillen & Ryan Kelly. Never read it myself, but it's apparently about some helots who try to escape Sparta.)