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Radio War Nerd EP #183 — Annibale's The Hundred Years War, Part VI: End of Burgundy & Triumph of Louis XI (Patreon)

Published:
2019-05-29 18:58:01
Edited:
2020-04-28 15:21:24
Imported:
2026-06
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Guest: Annibale

Recorded: May 23, 2019

In this final episode of our 6-part series on The Hundred Years War, guest Annibale traces Burgundy's late bull market peak under Charles The Reckless (or "The Bold") — and the once-wealthy & powerful duchy's sudden collapse into extinction after getting completely routed by the mighty Swiss. We learn how French King Louis XI cleverly engineered the collapse of his Burgundy rivals, earning the nickname "The Universal Spider King". Game of Thrones is kids' stuff compared to the real story...

Maps & Illustrations:

* Charles The Reckless

* Louis XI, "The Universal Spider King"

* Battles of Morat and Grandson 

* Battle of Morat

*Battle of Nancy

Listen to Annibale's RWN series on the Hundred Years War: Part I; Part II; Part III: Joan of Arc; Part IV: France Victorious; Part V: Rise of Burgundy & Louis XI.Follow Annibale on Twitter.

Total time: 2:05:10

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here 

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Comments

Jaime Christley

Catching up with this incredible episode, I wanted to note - and I’m unclear if anyone will even see this 4-year late reply - that movies about Joan have quite a track record of catastrophic failure, regardless of their artistic merits or lack thereof. The worst is probably the 1948 one directed by Victor Fleming - who had been quite a good filmmaker before the years he lost directing GONE WITH THE WIND scooped out his brains - it’s truly the axiomatic stuffy, unwatchable, humorless Hollywood epic; show it to someone who sniffs at “old movies” and it’ll confirm all their worst fears. Ingrid Bergman played Joan a second time a few years later, this time directed by her then husband Roberto Rossellini. RR was one of the greatest directors of all - however I don’t know if this film is any good or not. It’s not included in Criterion’s Bergman-Rossellini box set, which may indicate … it’s not so hot. The less said about Luc Besson’s 1999 film, the better. (Only to point out that Milla Jovovich went from being a terrible actor to being one of our best, and coincidentally it happened after switching husbands…) There’s Otto Preminger’s atypically disappointing SAINT JOAN, talky and flat, nearly killed Jean Seberg’s career before it started. Appropriately, two of the best Joan films are by the French! Bresson’s super austere THE TRIAL OF JOAN OF ARC and Jacques Rivette’s 2-part JOAN THE MAID. Many will cite the great Dane auteur Carl Dreyer’s THE PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC as the pinnacle, but my vote goes to Rivette’s epic: it’s extremely thorough, earthy, lots of beautiful natural lighting. It runs 6 hours (split into two parts), so it may take most of us 2-3 evenings to finish it but it’s incredibly focused and driven, not a wasted moment. Some of my fellow degenerates in cinephilia like Bruno Dumont’s two Joan films, which are heavy metal musicals in period dress. That’s not my kind of party but your mileage may vary.

John Waaben

This Charles “the Bold” seems like a real jerk!

JD

I want to be Annibale when I grow up.

Samson

it grows the most powerful of mental erections each time an episode of this series come out

zaabittimov

Two back to back RWN episodes = perfect for a long flight

Joseph Yachimec

All hail the emperor! Come back and re-Annibalize us soon!

Joseph Yachimec

I wouldn’t mind a tour of the iron century, or the wars of religion—I think Luther Blisset/Wu Ming have convinced me that you’d be the best for the job.

JoR

Around the 48 minute mark, you guys discussed the idea that pure "terroristic" violence isn't really a good strategy, mostly because you'll convince the next town/army to fight to the death, which will result in a tougher fight. One exception that I thought of was the Mongols. The main thing I remember from learning about them in school was that (especially in their middle eastern campaigns), their main strategy was to completely demolish a town, leave a few survivors to flee to the nearest town, then it would usually surrender after hearing the stories I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it made me want a Mongol series even more from you guys. Does Annibale know anything about them?

Scorched Earth

It depends on the mentality of the people being conquered and how much value they put on their freedom. In the case of the Mongols, it could be that they acted a bit more “honourably” and didn’t mistreat anyone if they surrendered without putting up a fight. With Charlie on the other hand, the next towns just assumed he would butcher them regardless of surrender or not, so, they quite literally had nothing to lose by fighting to the last man or woman standing.

Scorched Earth

Charlie’s pose and facial expression has douche-bad written all over it.

radiowarnerd

A Mongol series is a great idea. But the Mongols had such overwhelming power it doesn't compare to anything deployed in the 100 Years War.

radiowarnerd

Good point. That's what you get with these gung-ho types. Everybody cheers until they lead you into the Valley of Death.

Annibale

Surprisingly he wasn't. He had very peculiar psychology, combining a strict family man private attitude (monogamous, attached to his daughter Marie etc) and cultural interest (he was an accomplished musician) to a flamboyant and megalomaniac and often volatile public persona. He was a study in contradiction, a man living into the myth of all the legends of the past (King Arthur, Hannibal and Alexander the Great being his heroes) who worshipped war the way you average Call of Duty nerd does, as an exercise in showing off a strategic and tactical " genius" he clearly hadn't. He was extremely courageous and determined, and he worked hard to reform the Burgundian army into a "modern" one on the French model. But after this reform (and the issue of a lengthy field manual, one of the first ever) he never won a single battle. Summing up, he lived all his life an ideal (the knight without stain and without fear) that was clearly obsolete by 1477 and died trying to convince the world it wasn't. But besides this, he had a capricious, violent side that contributed to his downfall. Could have been a good soldier, but he was a bad leader

Annibale

One example of Charles attitude we had no time to discuss during the show is the siege of Neuss. The siege lasted more than one year, was a complete failure and had the additional effect to prevent Charles from helping Edward IV in kickstarting again the 100 Years War. But Charles spent a lot of money in it - his camp outside the besieged city was a 1:1 replica of a Burgundian town, complete with full services, different districts (including a red light district!) internal security, etc, and he used it to show off to foreign ambassadors and authorities, a sort of showcase of Burgundian power complete with treasures, antiquities and his personal collection of precious stones (Europe largest). Everyone was impressed - but the siege failed and had catastrophic strategic consequences

Scorched Earth

In the podcast when I heard you say that he took all his treasure and jewels with him to the war, I thought: “which military leader in his right mind would take such a huge risk? And for what?” Yet, despite all his loses, he must have assumed: “this time will be different.” Of course, wasn’t. Einstein aptly said: “Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result each time.” After racking up a number of loses, you’d think Charlie would say: “Maybe I better consult someone who actually has won a battle.” But as the Bible proverb says: “Pride is before a crash.” It also says: “Plans fail when there is no consultation, But there is accomplishment through many advisers.”

Scorched Earth

I was listening to another podcast about Genghis Khan: If I remember correctly, one really wylie fellow almost succeeded in killing Genghis Khan but was captured. The Khan actually admired his ingenuity and chutzpah; so instead of executing him, the Khan made him a leader in his army…and the guy was actually loyal to the Khan!

JoR

That's an amazing story.

JoR

This siege story sounds like an insane idea, but from what I gathered from your appearances, it seems like somewhat standard thinking for leaders at the time (even if Charles took it to the extreme). That is what makes Louis XI even more amazing.

Annibale

Showing off was part of the standard politics of that age and yes, Louis open mocking of pomp and ceremonies and his plain manners were disorienting for most of his contemporaries. In fact one of the reason of the feudal hostilities towards Louis was precisely his refusal to "follow the rules" (and if you think about it it's something reflected in current politics too ;). This said Charles behaviour was considered "eccentric" even by some of his contemporaries. But remember that when Charles dies he was mourned by his peers as "brave but unlucky" while Louis death was cheered up by most

xnfec

That was great. I think my favourite bit was when Charles VII commented on Louis being at the Burgundian court that his cousin had let a fox into his hen-house. Who was the egomaniac German Prince that was mentioned in an earlier episode? I think I missed the bit where he was mentioned? Also, who started calling Louis the Universal Spider?

Smutticus

In part 1 of this 6 part series there was a discussion of how environmental changes brought about an end to growing grapes and making wine in England. This along with some other economic changes, which Annibale did a great job explaining, lead to the socio-economic situation that setup the 100 Years War. I would like to make a request for an episode of the War Nerd podcast. I would like to request you guys put together an episode on wars or conflicts that have some of their causes rooted in environmental changes. There must be other conflicts that have been caused by changes in climate and I would love to hear the podcast explore them. Climate change is the greatest problem humanity is currently dealing with. Possibly the greatest problem the human race has ever dealt with. And I believe that in the coming century we will see great conflicts arising from it. I would love for the War Nerd podcast to plumb history for knowledge that may help us better anticipate what's to come. Maybe just give us instances where climate played a large part in causing conflict and discover some perennial implications. Thank you and I love the show!

Annibale

The first to call Louis "the spider" (in an obvious negative comparison with Charles "the lion") were Burgundian chroniclers - I believe the first was Georges Chastellain. AI think the "German egomaniac" you're mentioning was Sigismund of Austria, right?

Kars

Possibly amusing sidenote: "Bourgondisch" (Burgundian) is still used in The Netherlands to refer to an attitude to life that prioritises the enjoyment of food and drink and generally just living well. It's mostly associated with the southern parts of the country, which were indeed part of Burgundy in the past.

Joseph Klemke

Great series with Annibale. Can someone help me out with this word that he used repeatedly, meaning intentional destruction of farms and villages? Sounds like se boucher? cebuchais?

Brad

I was really glad to get a run of historical war episodes. Those are always my favorites. I hope there is an opportunity to discuss the hinted-at exploits of Louis XI at some point.

Andrew Stewart

I became a subscriber recently. How come parts 1-3 aren’t available for download. Looks like the only ones available are 4 and up.

radiowarnerd

h'm. all parts oughta be available. not sure why. sometimes patreon app can be buggy?

Andrew Stewart

Yeah I can’t see them on the phone app but the show up on my PC web browser. Weird.