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Radio War Nerd, Episode #45—Libya (Patreon)

Published:
2016-08-08 06:12:08
Edited:
2019-04-01 17:21:12
Imported:
2026-06

Downloads

Content

Libya

War Nerd battles anemia with B12 vitamin-bombers . . . Civil War Gen. George H Thomas vs Grant & Sherman . . . Israel think-tank wants to save Islamic State, Dennis Ross wants to bomb Syria, Al Qaeda wants to rebrand . . . Libya's murky history, from 19thC to Mussolini's time, discovering oil, rise of Gaddafi . . . his bizarre CIA profiteers Edwin Wilson and Frank Terpil . . . how rolling over for the West ended in death . . . 

Total Time: 2:31:49

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here

Files

Comments

Jed Hovey

I don't think simple ineptitude explains it. You've said in the past, that the US and Europe just don't like strong, assertive governments (I think it was in reference to Nkunda) in Africa or elsewhere. Chaos, while not optimal, still makes an area easier to control and more amenable to foreign influence than a dictator. We really need to get past the notion that these are "humanitarian" interventions in terms of anything except optics and propaganda. I don't have the deepest understanding of the situation in Libya, but it seems to me rather than colonize North Africa outright our government simply opts to smash up anyone who dares to get in the way, preferring even wanton destruction and loss of life to a leader who dares to challenge their interests. You are right to identify that attempting to bargain with the US government won't help. If they think you're in the way, you have to go. Ho Chi Minh actually considered the struggle for Vietnamese independence from the French in similar terms to the American Revolution early on and frankly, he was right. A colonial power economically exploiting an area halfway around the world? Sounds pretty familiar, doesn't it? But it was the Cold War, and he was a little too cozy with the Reds and all that stuff about freedom and democracy was a smokescreen. In a way, he believed in our principles more than we did, which is probably one of the cruelest ironies of that entire war. We like to tell ourselves stories where we are the heroes, that we are on the winning and just team. Even people who may on the surface seem critical of US foreign policy will often recoil at the thought that the actions of the US government are malicious rather than stupid. It's kind of like how under monarchies people would want to believe the monarchy as an institution was "above politics" and the King somehow didn't really understand the terrible things going on or he would have done something about it.

grey

great show. btw when you gonna have an episode on Afghanistan? i'd love to have your thoughts on Pakistan's role in the destabilization of Afghanistan.

Factory Troll

An excelent summary of Libyan history, clear cut and chronological. I'm also slightly confused about where to draw the line between stupidity and evil, but in this case, as in many other I suspect, there is a mash of overlapping objectives some of which are both stupid and evil (depending on what you chose to put into that word). In general I can't help but think public figures (such as politicians and military officers) are leaning more toward the stupid side, whereas lobbyist and other powerfull players behind the scenes tend more "evil", but it is important to remember that the two are not at all mutually exclusive. Trumps remarks about nukes demonstrates that these are weapons for vengefull goons, crude and scenic, but not very usefull. It is why nukes haven't been used much, being able to turn a city into a lake of molten glass gives you leverage, but the act itself is rarely, very rarely, profitable. On a side note; B12 is only found naturally in animal products and the rapidly growing crowd of vegans relies on supplements and fortified foods to avoid serious B12 deficiency. Thus, I find it hard to believe it would be much harder to get such an injection in the US compared to Italy.

Rob McGrail

It's really inconvenient to listen to these on a phone when they're not on the podcast feed - is leaving the last few episodes off the feed a conscious decision? Please consider adding these to the feed if possible :D

Jay Burnett

Love the track in the middle of the show .. would love to know what they are rapping about .. sound like they recorded it on their phones ..absolutely fab 10m

Jay Burnett

Gaddafi and Trump have a lot in common

radiowarnerd

You could be right about the B12. I haven't been back there in a long time. But when I was, I had a cold, a legitimate damn cold, and was required to produce a driver's license to get a decongestant. Now there's a case for your overlap between evil and stupid...

radiowarnerd

Good idea. So much of my problem with Afghanistan is nausea, like what happened in Quetta today.

radiowarnerd

Yes. Paolo Sensini's book "Sowing Chaos" makes a strong case for this thesis.

Jed Hovey

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check out the book.

alejandro sosa

I'm watching something called 'The Terror Routes 1979-2001' that is essentially the PBS documentary version of your 1979 episode, replete with retired spooks and semi-reformed Ikhwan members explaining everything you guys went over. I remain grateful for the education. Thanks, and good job on the editing, Mark--the news clips and music add a lot of mood and context.

Henry Bryant

Yeah +1 on the track ID! That beat was hot

Henry Bryant

Which feed are you referring to precisely?

Rob McGrail

There was one linked from some of the earliest patreon posts, hosted on an exiled domain. Every podcast until ep 37 was released on it. Listening to a 2 hour discussion on your phone via a bare .mp3 link is a bit of a nightmare - resuming playback etc...

Henry Bryant

Gotcha, thanks. The newest version of the Patreon iOS app makes audio posts a joy to listen to, with podcast-player-like controls. Should take the edge off for now, if you have an Apple device. As for feeds... stay tuned

Henry Bryant

"I'm also gonna be *crude* about this, but the thing about Libyan oil, it turns out..." Don't worry Mark, I caught that, hahaha

Fabian Destouches

Yeah you can get B12 injections on Amazon. I agree that restrictions on decongestant are stupid, but at least they actually do have ingredients that are required to make meth.

D

Any show notes for this one?

radiowarnerd

Thanks very much. A lot of people do seem to understand that something happened in 1979. I didn't realize that; it hit me on its own, but it's hit a lot of other people too as I've since discovered. It reminds me of Europe post-1815, a gigantic revulsion.

abcdefg

Interesting how this episode doesnt show up on google. Only the preview is seen. Wonder what agency is behind this.