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Radio War Nerd EP #366 — Seymour Hersh on US Bombing Nord Stream Pipelines (Patreon)

Published:
2023-02-12 20:37:32
Imported:
2026-06
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Guest: Seymour Hersh 

Recorded: February 11, 2023

We talk to legendary Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Seymour Hersh about his latest bombshell scoop: the United States, on President Biden's orders, blew up the Nord Stream pipelines that were foundational to Germany's export economy until last year.

-Read Seymour Hersh's article, "How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline"  

Other articles mentioned:

-"HUGE C.I.A. OPERATION REPORTED IN U.S. AGAINST ANTIWAR FORCES, OTHER DISSIDENTS IN NIXON YEARS", Hersh, New York Times

-"Torture at Abu Ghraib," Hersh, New Yorker

-"The Killing of Osama Bin Laden," Hersh, LRB

-"Seymour Hersh and the Dangers of Corporate Muckraking," Mark Ames, Pando

-"LAPDOGS, REDUX: HOW THE PRESS TRIED TO DISCREDIT SEYMOUR HERSH’S BOMBSHELL REPORTING ON CIA DOMESTIC SPYING," Ames, Pando/Real News

Total time: 54:35

Direct link to this episode's mp3 here 

Files

Comments

Demented Avenger

Quick turnaround. But was anyone really surprised who the guilty party was?

HeyB00B00

Jackpot interview. Great job Ames!

Greg

My dick is out already

DF$

😮😮😮

Alec

I LITERALLY SCREAMED

Animals in Motion

First time I've heard Mark scared. And Mark faced down Russia in the 90's.

Cosmo

Ooooooh lets go!!!!!!

Aaron C

He’s intense, great interview

Animals in Motion

It's being too clever by half – but at root it's a good impulse. If you're more inclined to believe something, you're susceptible to motivated reasoning. So as skeptical people, we probably should try to find answers that go against our initial assumptions.

Michelle Shocked

so freaking great. your persistence was epic. your integrity shone through and you got the job done. i was expecting an ep on the story but the scoop with Hersh is one for the ages.

Sam Zeng

"Lets fucking go" Seymour Hersh

Luma

Seeing this pop up in my notifications made me scream as well - way to power through the interview!

Craig Range

Very good! I’ve been critical lately but thank for humans like hersh.

Benjamin Glover

Dolan: "Mister Hersh, I'm old enough to remember when My Lai broke" Hersh: "Oh my god - why are you still working? You're too old to work"

SB

Hersh at 85 is sharper than most journalists in their 40s. The key phrase to me was his, "the war I know about isn't the war you are reading about." It took Mark four months and an article from Hersh to come to grips with the otherwise seemingly obvious Occam's Razor conclusion about who blew up the pipelines. I wonder how long and what it would take Mark and John to move from their stubborn insistence that the war is "stupid" and a disastrous Russian mistake to a more nuanced interpretation of the realities of what's been going on. Another article by Hersh maybe?

Isac Petruzzi

Amazing interview Mark! What a character. It didn't sound like he was going start into ridicule just a bit testy in responding to everything? Or he really wanted to get lunch 😅 Glad you pushed him about the possibility of multiple sources corroborating what is in the piece. That was useful to hear from him.

cl

Incredible scoop guys, second only to Hersh's itself of course. Kudos to Mark for drawing out some really fascinating (and comforting) statements, and great insight into the intelligence reporting business too. Congrats!

Robert Rowe

Yes. After them going 'Oh, makes sense" to that last guest who was misinforming them that it must be Russians breaking their own toys, I've been quietly thinking about why some newly minted writer types vidding as unlikely to get a job at NYT or WaPo would have (otherwise inexplicably) headed for the starving shit show of Yeltsin era Russian Federation and started a contrarian/fratboy hybrid "newspaper", glorifying all that was wrong in the ruins of the freshly crumped in center of the old USSR. The answer wasn't making me feel good about MY OWN level of gullibility as I'd been following these guys since way before "The War Nerd " was outed as not being a fat cubicle crawler from the asshole of CA, AKA Fresno.

A.I.Schmelzer

Well, the CIA greenlighted killing Diem, nothing particularly new.

Tariq

hell yeah dude

Robert Rowe

I'm Waiting for poor Zelensky to find out he's not hanging around to spend his retirement fund or live in that Florida estate. Wonder if his wife will get to?

PW

Yaaaaaay!

(American spirit menthol

This is the happiest Ive ever heard Mark Ames on this show. I don't know if I've ever heard Dr. Dolan call somebody Mister on it before this episode

Mark Ames

Felt like a KamAZ was doing donuts on my brain

blazed uncle

Hersh was super cantankerous in Wormwood so I was shocked later to hear him refer to Errol Morris as a good friend. I guess he just gets really testy when the topic of sources comes up, which is entirely understandable. That said, that little bit he gave about the pipeline industry insiders was one hell of a catch on Mark’s part.

Rylie o'r Rhyg

God damn, *I* feel bruised coming out of that interview, Jesus Christ. Bloody stellar job there Mark. Absolutely fantastic episode

Ander Pierce

Looking forward to this one! My hunch was that it made more sense as a US/Western attack than a Russian one, but war is weird and I wasn't (and still am not) going to pretend I knew for sure

Aditya V

Wonderful interview. It was like hearing a wise man from ancient times. Even the accent, probably remains in only movies now.

Jason Thompson

So obviously if they suck so bad, the first thing they would do is invite Hersh on to tell them why they were wrong. Makes sense

WarOn WarOff

Years ago I was a young journamalism student and met Hersh after a talk. That whole moment just came back when I heard him speak.

Stanlej

An honor for the show and for the listener. In this world of cynics nice to occasionally see someone like Mark's dedication to the spirit of journalism pay off in something like an audience with a legend like Hersh. Thanks so much, guys.

Aditya V

German Green party , Nuland , and Biden had only mentioned scrapping NS2 in public. But in the end they scrapped NS1 as well

Peacock Jive

Germany is a completely cucked nation. They knew who did it and they won't do anything about it.

Peacock Jive

Also I have to eat crow, I thought it was the uk. I guess not.

Demented Avenger

US, UK … what’s the difference nowadays?

Peacock Jive

I mean yeah really. Just thought I'd say so in case someone is keeping score lol.

Eva Lacy

Why did Seymour Hersh treat Mark Ames like that? Completely uncalled for and really really stupid. Anyone who hears this isn't going to want to have that happen to them. Sure he is old, sure he doesn't care because he is a legendary news guy who did and continues to do great work but fuck his behaviour on that show.

Demented Avenger

Wait, was John talking about Nina Jankowicz? The former head of Biden's Disinformation Governance Board? Oh lord, did you miss a story! Google her. Just Google her.

David Andrews

I'm glad you guys got Hersh. It's a feather in your cap. The Nerd bailing was lame but Mark held the fort. 😉 It's pathetic that no other news outlet has interviewed him and shows the uselessness of the MSM.

Aniruddha Shankar

He's *85*. And he's Seymour Fucking Hersh. It's fine. Mark is great, I'm a long time fan but it's truly an honour to to be the first person to interview *Hersh* after *that* story, politesse be damned. Mark's in the history books and 3000 years later when some historian studies the 2022 Nordstream Pipeline bombing they'll hear Mark's interview.

Aniruddha Shankar

This is what I can't get over. How utterly mentally dominated is Germany. Any other country there'd be riots and the embassy besieged.

Mark Ames

Thanks Eva, but I'm good with it. Hersh got to use our interview to show the world that age hasn't slowed him down (one of the many lines of attack used to smear his article). I just happened to be in the way of that freight train, but that's my job here.

Of course

I did what I tell everyone not to do and read the comments in Moon of Alabama, and someone there said, the UK did do the deed, and a US spook gave Hersh a false story to take the heat off London. But Hersh said something at the end that was very telling... you don't need to hear just from the secret people in the shadows, there are whole companies full of engineers who know things, who can give you leads and confirm what professional dissemblers tell you. I think the US did it, or "did" it through well-supervised proxies.

Magic Mikey

Well done for getting this interview and well done for putting it up for free on youtube also. This has gone a significant way in repairing my faith in you both. Although Hersch clearly didn't want to distract from his story I'd take very seriously his hints on the difference between how the war is being reported and how it is actually going. You guys have been far, far too credulous of the MSM narrative generally, not just on the Nordstream bombing.

MC

Incredible episode!

Yairo Martis

More like Seymour HARSH! Good job, Mark.

Xander Udo

That was spectacular. Really great. This article and interview contrast so much with the deafening silence of the mainstream (non-) coverage of the bombing these last months. I'd guess the US were counting on that silence and on the fact that that would negate the 'downsides' Mark was talking about. Kinda like a bully slapping you in the face and saying "what are you gonna do about it?" Also, I think I saw someone on here talk about the (US-) propaganda situation in Germany. I think it's probably similar to the Netherlands. The mainstream here is completely dominated by the US/NATO narrative. Like 100%. (Twitter plays a really big role in synchronization of accepted/elite opinions between the US and the Netherlands, I feel)

Kurt Ellis

Come on guys he's a crank. He's rested on the laurels of 2 stories his whole career. Don't trust him and he's damn near 90

Kurt Ellis

he's just not credible anymore sorry.

Doug Cartel

Hersh made his career exposing the My Lai Massacre and Colin Powell made his career covering it up The arc of history is long but sometimes I really wish it bent towards justice at a steeper angle

BryceSprungstein

'not credible'...jesus are you joking? that is ridiculous

BryceSprungstein

do you think all those US bases in Germany are there to protect Germany?

Yngve Skogstad

I'm sorry to say it, but this was really underwhelming in terms of meaningful content. I listened in hoping to know more about the Nord Stream story, but most of the interview was just old stories and internal journalism gossip. Which can be fun, but when you've got 30 minutes with the guy who has just written the bombshell story of the year so far? The only thing substantial that I got out of this which at least in my opinion strenghtened the story was that 1) Hersh has been working on the article with an editor, 2) that he sort of hinted to there being corroborating sources that do not appear in the article, and 3) that at least one of these work within the pipeline construction industry. However, no material evidence has still been presented, and this interview isn't gonna convince anyone who wasn't already persuaded by the original article. As a (self-obsessive) Norwegian I was very curious to hear some substantiation on the role of both the Norwegian navy and Jens Stoltenberg in this. The story doesn't match publicly available data on the flight pattern of any of our Poseidon airplanes, so there are obviously some inaccurasies in the article. I also find it very hard to believe Stoltenberg was a CIA informant when he was just a young teen. An informant to Norwegian intelligence? I wouldn't put it past him. But I don't see why the CIA would bother, nor have the resources to interfere in the local youth wing of a Norwegian center left party. (And before anyone accuses me of defending Stoltenberg, let me just add that I think no politician since WWII has had a greater deleterious impact on Norwegian society than him.)

Peacock Jive

Germany should still be called west Germany

PW

I guess you either believe Sy Hersh is a truth teller or you don't. I most certainly believe him. And George Seldes. But you can put your faith in "public data" if you like.

Pepipopa

Issue is if he reveals too much or even if he reveals something that we might consider "not too much" might risk the source. I feel similarly tho. I tihnk the story for people who believe and trust what Hersh reports is that this man is clearly all there mentally and this story is most probably true.

Aditya V

"why the CIA would bother ...in the local youth wing of a Norwegian center left party." This only proves you have neither read CIA history nor listened to RWN episode on them

Tyler Berglund

Mark did a great job with a pretty slippery guest. Great interview, great guest, awesome!

Aditya V

Exactly. Slippery is the word

Aditya V

Putin messed up by not going for a full on war at the beginning. A limited scope SMO with a cheaply funded army has delayed things and raised the anger levels in UA society. Mark had good reasons to be sceptical of Putin's warmaking

Pepipopa

no he tweeted about this lady's article her name is Mia Jankowicz but if they're related that would be quite hilarious.

Zakir KH

Really awesome ep, cool how you admire him and I think you got more than anyone else would.

Mark Ames

thank you Michelle

Cory

This was extremely stressful to listen to.

Lo

I am a geriatric trailblazer of an investigative journalist known for the powerful truths I tell. Now, on death’s doorstep, I have the power to avert WWIII by naming and shaming all of the malign actors I can, to stop nuclear armageddon. Nothing is more important than stopping the reckless drumbeat of war and malign actions of those who desire it, but doing my Senior Journo’s duty of Protecting the Source(s).

Sam Rockwell

Great interview - one unsolicited broadcasting note mark. Punctuating every sentence from your guest with an affirmative mutter , right… ya, is a bit excessive.

Jelle Haandrikman

Great interview and it showed he was not easy to interview. But the show provided some nice backgrounds. While still letting the article stand on its own.

Mark Ames

Hersh never wrote that Young Jens worked for CIA, he wrote that Young Jens "cooperated with the American intelligence community" which could mean another of our famously multiple agencies, including for example the FBI, and whoever else had reps at the US Embassy in that NATO border ally. It's really not unheard of that the embassy's FBI rep, for example, would seek cooperation from a high-born rock-throwing protester whose friends had been arrested for attacking the US Embassy. As for why I didn't ask him about your particular interest — there were about 2 dozen more questions I had written down that I wanted to get to, including on Norway, but as you probably heard, just keeping Hersh on the phone longer than 10 minutes was like riding a fucking bronco.

Mohamed Dalmar

Man he really doesn’t like you guys. He was so nice to Jeremy scahill a couple years ago. And to Aaron mate. Also wtf is with his “idk why presidents start wars, I think it helps their ratings”. The greatest investigative journalist ever doesn’t understand economics or imperialism? Unbelievable.

SocraticGadfly

Why wouldn't Sy cite both sources in the original story then? I stand by other more skeptical leftists like Jeff St. Clair.

SocraticGadfly

Mark ... interview Jeff St. Clair. See what he thinks about Sy's alleged bombshell.

SocraticGadfly

Yes. Contra Ames, he was wrong on Skripal. And, he took at least one initial bite out of the Seth Rich conspiracy theory apple.

Mohamed Dalmar

Seth rich conspiracy theory? Lol. The Russian hacking has been debunked. Completely possibly his rich story was true. Skripal? I’d read Craig Murray on that.

SocraticGadfly

Craig Murray? A flunkie. Bullshit otherwise on the hacking, ESPECIALLY since RNC as well as DNC was hacked.

Magic Mikey

I’m not disappointed that Mark has been critical of “Putin’s war making” (although that phrase by itself is loaded with assumptions. Although its undoubtedly true the west is also heavily responsible for this war, as is the Ukrainian government and indeed the rest of the Kremlin leadership). I’m disappointed of RWN’s credulity of the analyses offered by the MSM and the analysts of various think tanks, even the “best” of which such as Michael Kofman or Ben Aris produce analyses so clearly lack any serious attempt to critically evaluate the situation. This isn’t the fault of individual people necessarily. The political pressure is so great the political space does not exist to publicly do that kind of work and keep your job. Or has not existed. As the Ukrainian front buckles and the already obscene Ukrainian casualties become catastrophic, cracks in the propaganda wall are beginning to appear. Hersch’s article is part of that, as is this: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/06/world/europe/ukraine-russia-offensive.html Nonetheless the fact that its nearly 12 months in and RWN is still parroting NATO talking points such as “Russia can’t win” and “this was a strategic mistake for Russia” without seriously considering alternate perspectives that are now widely available (e.g., Alexander Mercouris of the Duran, Col Douglas McGregor, Scot Ritter etc.) is disappointing to me.

Magic Mikey

Craig Murray sacrificed his career to expose his own governments involvement in the use of torture during the war on terror. He's nobodies flunky.

Aditya V

I don't think they have ever said “Russia can’t win”. They only said the momentum keeps changing on the battlefield. As for "strategic mistake for Russia” , they meant it regarding the economic future because of sanctions that will affect technological progress. Personally, I believe that can be overcome through collab with Chinese companies, but there will be losses in near term. As for McGregor, Ritter etc, they got it wrong last Summer about the staying capability of UA military and the offensive capability of Russian military pre-mobilization. The problem is this is a WW2 kind of war without the total mobilization that WW2 had I don't trust Kofman either. He tries to come across as some unbiased observer, but is an A1 neocon. He gives himself away with this: "... even if Putin loses, the problem that Russia poses will not be solved. ”.... What did Kofman mean? Perhaps the longstanding goal of neocons and Euros to breakup Russia.

Boris Petrovchich

Any update on Germany population reaction to US act of war/terrorism against Germany?

SB

@Robert Rowe I disagree with how far you are going with this. But I do agree that the interview with Murthy was an utter disaster.

SB

@Magic Mikey You are spot on. I think (speculation here) a big part of the problem is this issue in the American culture of refusing to admit your (major) mistakes and pushing at all costs to save face. We see this in every single US politician, and we see it in Mark's and John's behavior on this topic, unfortunately. I'm glad Mark got to interview Hersh. But it's cringeworthy to hear chestpumping about being "first to interview Hersh" while lacking any serious self-reflection. In Hersh's piece he mentioned people in the administration saying, "it will be an act of war." And it was an ACT OF WAR against two countries - nuclear Russia and ballless Germany. Just imagine the reverse. Let's say Iran deliberately blowing up a major piece of critical infrastructure like this. I bet the equivalent of the base in Panama City would be wiped out at the very least, if not other Navy bases and carriers. Yet Mark just moves on with an "ah okay then" proud that Hersh chose him to to talk to first instead of questioning his view of the world. For example, invite Moon of Alabama (https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/the-buildup-to-war-in-ukraine-february-13-2022.html) for a change. He is in Germany and has been much more correct in him analysis than all the Kofmans, Arises, and Murthys combined. I suggested Aaron good before. Aaron Mate, Max Blumenthal, many others. But Mark and John seem to only invite guests of more or less the same opinion as them.

Hans Anders

Amazing interview. One thing about the article I’d still like to know: What’s up with the ‘covertness’ of this operation? It was to be covert, then it wasn’t because they had already kind of announced it. Then they were going to have the timer set to two days(!) after Baltops, not very covert. And in the end they picked detonators which could be fired at will (more covert).

Mark Ames

Seriously, this is what the whole "omg Hersh was a Seth Rich sucker" thing is about? Some guy talking to Hersh, claiming he heard a mountain where hersh said it was a molehill, and that's supposed to affect Hersh's credibility as a journalist? Bad faith twaddle. If it's not clear already, Hersh talking is a lot wilder and pinball-minded than Hersh in print, which is what he should be judged by. Here is what St Clair's article hyperlinks to as proof Hersh was some kind of Seth Rich truther: https://www.cpr.org/2017/08/01/behind-fox-news-baseless-seth-rich-story-the-untold-tale/

Mark Ames

I like Jeffrey, and he's totally wrong on Hersh. It happens.

Jon

Mark - he's not that scary! I briefly met Hersch last year at an event in Chicago where he was speaking about his career and memoir. He let slip his thoughts about the Ukraine war (~"Russia is not going to lose”). I asked a question at the Q&A at the end about what smaller blogs/journals/newspapers he reads since we all don't have firsthand sources. He mostly talked around the question with a long winded answer that mentioned the NYT and LRB. So like a true amateur journalist I walked up to him after the event and dogged him again for an answer. He was funny and intense and circuitous but quite nice in humoring a spectator like myself. Once I mentioned nakedcapitalism.com, he agreed he read that as well as The Intercept and Aaron Mate. I still don’t feel like I got much of an answer out of him though...

Aditya V

Amazing, which event was this?

Jon

It was part of the Chicago Humanities Festival. I don't think it's been posted online.

William

Way more crybaby bitches in the comments than I thought there’d be. People need to fucking relax

William

Fortunately what you think and what you’re opinion is, doesn’t matter. Call him up if you want a better interview. Otherwise, consider taking a deep breath

William

Lol okay I’ll take your word for it, fucking idiot

William

Mark, really just feels like he got annoyed for asking questions you knew he couldn’t answer (about sources) and that you were asking him the obvious questions, or asking for speculation. Idk just a vibe more than anything, just feel like he was the boxing coach from rocky

Of course

I can't speak to anyone else's thoughts on Seth Rich, but I'm a total "sucker" for the idea that there's something fishy about an unsolved murder of a DNC staffer in the midst of high-powered deception about who stole what from servers. A situation so frought that the most illustrious media, academic, and government institutions and celebrities created a Russiagate fraud and crisis of confidence that has led Americans to crippling pathological paranoia... and the world to the brink of nuclear annihilation.

SocraticGadfly

You're free to interview St. Clair yourself, as I said in another comment.

SocraticGadfly

As for you and Mark and others? The RNC was hacked as well as the DNC. Even GOP congresscritter Mike McCaul admitted that before the RNC told him to shut up, presumably for political reasons. HUGE counterargument. As for Seth Rich tragically being murdered? No, it appears that a robbery gone bad is indeed what happened, not some conspiracy theory. Links on McCaul here https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2017/03/wikileaks-cia-and-cybersecurity.html

SocraticGadfly

Craig Murray did indeed expose human rights abuses in Central Asia, including torture for intelligence. That happened long before he hitched his wagon to Assange and started cutting blank checks to him. I've had many an online interaction with him. As I told him once on Twitter, it's "in'teresting" he wanted Mueller interview Bill Binney from VIPS, but not Thomas Drake, the man who said Binney and McGovern found their own "Curveball." I've also talked repeatedly with Duncan Campbell about the "Forensicator" bullshit and related. Oh, Murray has also hinted in the past that he thought Assange knew the provenance of the DNC emails (as in the SVR, not Seth Rich) by the end of 2016.

Jason Thompson

They’ve interviewed Max Blumenthal before. But that was years ago and Blumenthal’s politics have shifted— I’m not entirely sure why & how. Though I still would be fascinated & want to listen if they brought him on again, honestly.

a clash of purple

Well, for one thing, if "malign actors" were hellbent on causing "nuclear armageddon," they certainly wouldn't hesitate to silence someone like Seymour Hersh if they thought he would somehow be an obstacle. But for another thing, who do you think the 'malign actors' are? It's not the Illuminati or the Elders of Zion or whatever. They're not hiding their identities or their job titles. Many of them ran in more or less open, more or less democratic elections. One of the points Hersh made in this interview is that nobody is really hiding their intentions or anything. They might resort to some level of secrecy for practical or legal reasons, but often they don't even do that much.

a clash of purple

Maybe they just couldn't compute the idea that the U.S. would blow up their own ally's pipeline. I mean they called the invasion of Ukraine wrong too, because it was ostensibly too dumb a move as they saw it, and by any measure that is a far less stupid move than America covertly sabotaging Germany's pipelines. Anyway, not everyone is an op, okay? The FBI is too busy funding people who want to turn into the Sith from Star Wars and/or vampires to do whatever you think they're doing with Ames and Dolan.

a clash of purple

There are other responses than freaking out and immediately blowing up every American national in the country, there are other factors than this one incident, there are a lot of important ties between the American regime and the German regime, and there is a certain level of inertia when it comes to these kinds of things. I'm sure the German public is pissed off, assuming they accept that this story is true. As for how the German government will respond, who knows? The reality is that the EU and NATO don't amount to much without a certain level of support from the United States. The German regime needs America more than the American regime needs Germany. So America is allowed to get away with a certain amount of bad behavior, more than everyone else, and their partners just have to deal with it. In a vacuum, Germany would be better off bringing Russia into the EU and forming their own security treaty organization with Russia that doesn't include the U.S., but that isn't possible right now. It's been a while since WWII, but the former Axis nations who were occupied by the Allies after the war still aren't as autonomous as they'd probably like. RWN has extensively covered America's influence over Italy, which is often enforced with terrorism and assassinations as much as bribery. Germany has enjoyed the benefits of being the United States's pet for a few decades. Now they're feeling a little bit of pain due to being the junior partner in this arrangement. America has certainly inflicted worse betrayals on its allies in the past. There's no way of knowing what's going to happen, but I'd bet that nothing will come of it, at least in the short-term.

a clash of purple

Maybe he just doesn't like giving interviews, so he's deliberately abrasive in order to discourage people from talking to him. It's a strategy employed by some.

a clash of purple

Well, when you start a world war and proceed to lose it badly and also do a couple genocides and fail to cover it up, you have to pay a price. Germany should just be grateful that the Allies decided to carve Israel out of Arab territory instead of Bavaria or something.

a clash of purple

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but nobody in their own head acts according to the dictates of 'imperialism' or 'economics.' Those are academic concepts which don't offer any insight into individuals' psychology. They're not particularly useful except as propaganda talking points. Nobody thinks of themselves as an imperialist, just like nobody thinks of themselves as evil. Hersh did actually explain the reasoning behind why they blew up the pipeline. He just can't tell anyone what's going on inside these people's heads because that's impossible for anyone to know. Probably even they don't fully understand what they're doing or why, even if they claim they do. Dolan has talked about how he gets hung up on the question of consciousness, and the whole reason it's a subject that invites speculation is because there are no real answers to be had. You can either obsess over it, or you can just ignore it altogether.

a clash of purple

It's not terrorism or an act of war, don't be ridiculous. Even if it was by some definition or other, it can't be processed that way because, what, is Germany going to declare war on the U.S.? Or embargo America?

a clash of purple

It only has to be 'covert' enough to avoid anyone being legally culpable, if that. Nobody could stop the U.S. from doing it, and nobody can do much to punish the U.S. for it, so any attempt at secrecy seems like it's just to help the German regime save face.

Pavel Abramov

What a guy. Thanks Mark for the interview. Like you said, not easy

Mohamed Dalmar

There’s date discrepancies in the official hack narrative. It’s bogus.

Mohamed Dalmar

Have you never heard of citizens united or about how corporations control politicians through bribes? Yes he stated the reason for the pipeline being destroyed (imperialism) but his generalization afterwards of “they do it for ratings” is nonsense and surprising.

Benke

More like: Seymour Harsh. That's a good interview to catch new viewers, good idea making it freen on YouTube.

Kendall

Did I listen to the same interview that the people complaining listened to? Hersh specifically said several times that the story _isn’t hard to understand_ and stands on its own. He refused to speculate or delve into psychoanalysis, and I think that’s to be commended. On the other hand, perhaps it’s a good sign it was so polarizing. Well done and well earned, you guys! You should be proud.

Cory

I think hersh is credible and worth paying attention to. Completely apart from that I think the Seth rich thing is eyebrow-raising. These fights are fun and everything but we should be evaluating each story on its own merits and not based perceived credibility.

Cory

Hersh has his sources and we should consider them apart from whatever issues we may have with his other assertions.

Cory

Also my bystander position is that SocraticGadfly is full of shit. Craig Murray might be a boisterous alcoholic but his analysis of the Skripal situation was in depth. His support of assange is warranted. Seth rich is kind of a mental hobby horse for me. I have no fixed opinion on it. But it's certainly not as foreclosed as this commenter seems to think.

Cory

Also why would anyone want to ask Jeff st Clair his opinion on any of this ? His opinion would be interesting. But his whole website has gone to shit and only occasionally has a piece worth reading that isn't syndicated elsewhere. (I say this as someone who has a branded Counterpunch hoodie)

Cory

Just wanna shout out nakedcapitalism. Yves and Lambert and the rest are amazing. You could arguably say they are too pro Russia, but whatever man the discussion and analysis there is top notch.

SocraticGadfly

One reply for all four of yours. 1. Eventually, individual stories produce a track record. 2. St. Clair talked about the "more credulous precincts of the left," and specifically re Assange and his Seth Rich conspiracy theory monging. https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2019/08/assange-seth-rich-russian-election.html Given your own credulous takes on said issue, that's probably why you don't like him anymore . 3. Full of shit? Given the icon, maybe you're the infamous Catturd.

Cory

@gadfly I'm checking your blog out thanks for the link Apologies for my being intemperate the other day.

SocraticGadfly

No worries back. And by that alone, I know you're not Catturd, so apologies back. On St. Clair? I disagree with him on other things. As an ex-Green, I'm less enamored than he is of Ralph Nader, among other things. And,on Counterpunch? Like some other opinion mags of the left, not only do they share stories, but it, especially, sometimes doesn't have good editorial focus.

Kurt Ellis

you idiots believe any tall tale as long as its anti american. seymore hersh is a hack. a fabulist. i feel bad for you morons

orc

What a get!

SocraticGadfly

The man said "Ty Clevenger," whom I've known for about a decade, and originally for other nuttery besides Seth Rich: https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2018/04/ty-clevenger-joey-dauben-with-law-degree.html But also for Seth Rich nuttery: https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2020/02/ty-clevenger-faces-new-seth-rich.html and https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2020/12/some-more-lies-about-seth-rich-from.html And, having known him for that long, I know where his blog is. I also, per the links, know about his legal barratry, his (unpaid) fines and more.

a clash of purple

What's the tall tale here? That America, the only country with an incentive to secretly blow up the Nordstream pipelines, secretly blew up the Nordstream pipelines? Wow, what an unbelievable story. Good thing you're here to call Sy Hersh out on his bullshit. If people like you didn't push back on these stories, then who knows what terrible consequences the United States would face as a consequence of such lies. Instead of nothing happening, nothing might happen instead.

grey

So Biden says hes going to put an end to it, the US called it a threat before, They're fully capable of doing it, Former Polish defence minister thanks the US immediately afterwards, The US calls it's destruction a tremendous opportunity and effectively sees Russia as an enemy state, but Hersh is telling the tall tale? This was obvious before Sy Hersh wrote a single letter of that article. The US can effectively say they're going to sabotage something, sabotage it and a bug brain idiot like you thinks it is a tall tale to see the obvious.

grey

It can do neither of those things but it could start questioning their relationship with the US as being more of a vassal being strong armed rather than an independent state that is "allied" with the US. That would be huge because like all vassals, they will start agitating for independence given the opportunity.

Sean Bedlam

Well that's a kurt response.

Sam McManus

I wouldn't be particularly surprised if German leadership was aware of the plan to destroy the pipeline well in advance

Nic Bodiford

I’ve listened to this a half-dozen times now. It’s one of the best interviews I’ve ever heard. Everything about it is exceptional. Hersh’s “Are you listening to me? They KNOW what happened.” section stops me in my tracks every time.

Nic Bodiford

Hey, Hersh references a documentary that he’s participating in, at the beginning of the interview. I’ve poked around online and can’t find any recent docs with him in it and he’s got commenting disabled on his Substack. Do you guys know if/when that doc’s gonna be released?