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Radio War Nerd EP #72—Bosnia War 1992-5 (Patreon)

Published:
2017-02-23 02:50:04
Imported:
2026-06

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After the War Nerd's harrowing escape from the Albanian Riviera—the reason for this delayed episode—we discuss the Bosnia War of the early-mid 1990s, and how hard it is to discuss this war...Santayana's dumb little maxim about remembering the past to correct the present better is show once again to be the worst advice any European ever gave the world...

Total time: 2:20:52

Direct link  to this episode's mp3 here 

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Comments

Animals in Motion

I'm glad you guys stayed away from the bullshit revisionst pro-Serbian views that are unfortunately circulating around on some leftist websites from people with absolutely no knowledge of the area and the conflict. It's one of the early examples of people just lining up with the Serbian nationalists because they were *against NATO and globalization* or some other nonsense. I might be biased of course, since my fiancee is a Bosniak muslim who had to flee to Sweden from the conflict as a kid. But this idea that bosniaks are somehow soft on Al Qaeda or very islamist is just... complete nonsense. If you've ever been to Sarajevo you know how god damn angry any Bosniak will be if you ask him or her about islamic fundamentalists in veils coming to Sarajevo (which a lot of people from Arab states are doing). They would be classified as islamophobes in the Western leftysphere. They are pretty soft on Erdogan and Turkey though, since they feel Turkey were one of the few countries to help them during the war. Bosniak muslims are very pro-Tito and Yugoslavia. My fiancees family were all partisans, and they all loved Yugoslavia, since they had the most to fear if the different ethnic groups turned on eachother in a civil war. All the monuments in Sarajevo from Yugoslavia are intact, the main street is named after Tito, and from what I can tell they've kicked out any Al Qaida fighter who remained after the civil war.

BORIS VELASCO

Related to Mark Ames' comments on Western Ukraine: <a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=wjMRENI5KSwC&pg=PA334&lpg=PA334&dq=Dominic+Lieven+empire+Western+Ukraine&source=bl&ots=VRTTMA0g_Q&sig=VxngZqjSpTtP5JNkZbATn9p4tQ4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiX1837sKnSAhUrjVQKHR-XAmEQ6AEIPzAG" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://books.google.com/books?id=wjMRENI5KSwC&pg=PA334&lpg=PA334&dq=Dominic+Lieven+empire+Western+Ukraine&source=bl&ots=VRTTMA0g_Q&sig=VxngZqjSpTtP5JNkZbATn9p4tQ4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiX1837sKnSAhUrjVQKHR-XAmEQ6AEIPzAG</a>#v=onepage&q=Dominic%20Lieven%20empire%20Western%20Ukraine&f=false

John Smith

Normally I come away with a better understanding because John is such a great explainer, but I'm going to have to listen to this one again with some slides. Something about the balkans.

Vincent Chiu

Your Albanian story was hilarious. Glad to know not all AirBnB payments work the same XD

Avery

It was funny to hear about "snobbery in Eastern Europe, I mean Central Europe" because what I noticed in Prague was precisely that they demanded to be recognized as Central rather than Eastern. I guess they thought this would give them the honor of being placed with Germany instead of those Serbian pooches of Russia.

Winterborn

Everyone does it. the Poles and even the /Ukrainians/ claim to be central. Basically Russia is the only country that claims to be eastern European.

Winterborn

That was meant as a reply to Avery above - my apologies.

Alex K

The Central Europe vs. Eastern Europe thing is definitely a mark of our snobbery. However, for the record Moravians can pronounce ř about as well as people from Prague.

Md0

Interesting episode, sucks how the blood and soil thing is also starting to gain some traction here in western Europe (or is that reading too much into history myself or is it the cynical politicians over here :P)

Jan Meyer

Over their dead bodies.

Md0

Feels weird to a millenial this so called map fever of these idiots, like a blast from the uncomfortable past. The far right Dutch nutjob Geert Wilders keeps talking about having Vlaanderen voluntarily leave Belgium to join up with the Netherland, whilst trashing his own country and its peoples. His current slogan is making [the netherlands] ours again. Bit of a rip off from the US teaparty from 2012 "give our country back" thing. 😐

Samuel Myers

Was planning on posting this when this episode first came out, but life intervenes. This episode reminded my of a story my grandfather told about the beginning of Yugoslavia. He was in the merchant marine and after WW2, and in the immediate aftermath was on a coal route to Trieste. In 1945 it wasnt 100% certain that Trieste would end up in Italy. He mentioned that during 45-47 when he was in Trieste that the Italian communists would most often side with Yugoslav partisans, rather than Togliatti and the communist party. He said basically any time a fascist business was firebombed, it was accompanied by crowds/groups shouting Vive Tito, not Vive Togliatti. Its amazing to think that communism/socialism used to be an ideology that could, to a certain degree, supersede nationalism. He had all sorts of insane stories during his time there, longshoreman are a pretty interesting group everywhere.

ilya y

My impression of Belgrade exactly mirrors Mark's. One of the most hip cities I've been to. The films coming out of Serbia are great as well.

radiowarnerd

We need to go back, with more time to tour someplace besides the bus station. It was educational as Hell, but not scenic.

AG

It's "mad as a cut snake" ya bloody drongo!

Mark

Im disappointed by Mark and his views on Serbs and Croats. He made quite a few inaccuracies both in his views on history on pre-Yugoslav wars and during the war.

Dario Senkic

It's great to hear a nuanced perspective on the Yugoslav wars. Well done! Regarding territorial ambitions, it should also be mentioned that Croatia, just like Serbia, had greater goals other than just keeping Krajina within its borders. Croatia essentially used HVO as a proxy to, as ICTY put it, "secure Bosnian Croat control of Central Bosnia and its accession to the Republic of Croatia." Basically carving their own little slice of Bosnia.

Paul Vd

Easily the best RWN episode. This war has it all. It is the perfect combination of bad relations with Russia and the US's love affair with Whabbi terrorism. And it happend in most of our lifetimes. It's easily worth another episode. Tom Secker also has a masterpiece on this war. Maybe he would be a good guest to have on to discuss again. Here's his podcast on the war : ClandesTime 113 – An Alternative History of Al Qaeda: The Destruction of Yugoslavia - Podcast – Spy Culture <a href="http://www.spyculture.com/clandestime-113-alternative-history-al-qaeda-destruction-yugoslavia/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.spyculture.com/clandestime-113-alternative-history-al-qaeda-destruction-yugoslavia/</a>