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Radio War Nerd EP #75—Sinn Fein's Long War Success (Patreon)

Published:
2017-03-13 18:48:15
Imported:
2026-06
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A deep dive into Sinn Fein's long bullets-to-ballots strategy for gaining power, culminating in their recent surprising success  in Northern Ireland elections . . . War Nerd talks about his own personal, painful history as a Sinn Fein activist in the Bay Area . . . Tracing the rise of Sinn Fein & IRA in early 20th c. Ireland, how the urban guerrilla army succeeded against British Empire by losing on the battlefield, before degenerating in victory under De Valera . . . Rise of new generation of young Sinn Fein radicals in late 1960s who put gaining power over doctrinal purity — through bullets and ballots — and how it succeeded . . . Also: Ames on two former Moscow correspondents— David Remnick, and Canadian foreign minister Chrystia Freeland who's now dealing with a Nazi skeleton in her family closet . . . 

Total time: 2:52:33

Direct link  to this episode's mp3 here 

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Comments

online Leftist Archive Project (LARP)

This one is awesome. Viz the second half and Ukrainian fascists: my friend (whose neighbors are Ukrainian) was telling me about how in Canada there's a statue to a Ukrainian Nazi. Wonder if anti-racism protestors could target that one, but sort of doubt it unfortunately. It's crazy how this stuff sort of just gets buried.

radiowarnerd

Yeah, there are just so many strata of evil that people can only dig out a few sites that seem particularly galling at the moment.

Kevin Walsh

It's a minor point, but Ireland actually won the Economic War, and got substantial economic as well as diplomatic benefits from it. Granted, if we were up against steelier opposition than Neville Chamberlain we might not have done Then again, I think the major Irish losers were big cattle ranchers, and they were Fine Gael voters anyway - many Fianna Fáil supporters may not have been unhappy to see them suffering.

Nick

Really hope you do a show on the populists some time down the line, would be a fascinating listen. Also if you want a more purely "war" topic along those lines, look at the "Battle of Blair Mountain" in 1921, the historian James Green wrote a fascinating book on the topic <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Devil-Here-These-Hills-Virginias/dp/0802123317." rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/Devil-Here-These-Hills-Virginias/dp/0802123317.</a> The idea of 10,000 rebels rising up against the US government is hard to believe even now, and if you squint look awful similar to the revolutions that were breaking out in Europe at roughly the same time. Also, loved the diss of Melanie Phillips in this episode. Another great listen

Michael Kelly

This may not be new information, but the nickname Chuckle Brothers is a reference to a questionably funny comedy duo who were on British childrens TV for over 20 years.

Shawn van Leeuwen

looks to be an entirely different Chomiak. a Polish scientist at first glance?

xnfec

Your mention of William Jennings Bryan was interesting as Bannon has recently compared Trump to him. A while ago I read a paper on the Scopes trial (admittedly by Gary North) that said that Bryan was a very radical-left person and that the bible belt was considered a part of the progressive wing of American left politics, up to the Scopes trial. He claims that the liberal intelligensia was behind the trial in the shape of H.L. Mencken and their plan was to lose the trial and then take the fight to the supreme court. However, Bryan lost and it did not work out the way they planned. What I don't undertand is why Bannon would want people to identify Bryan with Trump?

Mat LaPoer

Probably because Trump has (or at least Bannon believes Trump has) fans on the paleocon faction of the contemporary right (think Pat Buchanan et al) and there's plenty of affection for the right wing of the Populists in that quarter. The first positive takes on WJB I recall coming across in the contemporary media were from paleocons loosely aligned with the 90s anti-globalization movement (notably one in New York Press, now that you mention it...)

Mat LaPoer

BTW the very good Shadow Of Ideas podcast (which had the War Nerd as a guest more than once you know so it can't be all bad) has an episode called Trump and the Know-Nothings which is worth a listen, on the topic of parallels.

Hugo Turner

A Great book on America and the Wests cold war alliance with Nazis is Christopher Simpson's book "Blowback." Also check out "inside the league" By Jon Lee Anderson and Scott Anderson for more on Ukrainian OUN/B Fascists and the Croatian Ustashe.

Brady Eklund

Could you look into the current blustering over North Korea by the Trump administration for the next show? I'm trying to get a read on whether it'll be more of the same worthless sabre-rattling or Trump might actually be trying to start something. Mattis doesn't strike me as the reckless type, and I don't get the impression that he loves all this counter-insurgency work we've been doing. I think he wants his name on a big, decisive military operation like a war on North Korea - if they thought they could pull it off. The political situation in the South doesn't seem appropriate, however, not to mention the political situation in Washington. It's also annual exercise with SK and bluster about the North Koreans' inevitable response season, but it's the first time the Trump Administration has been in charge of it and their bluster seems a little more blustery than usual.

xnfec

Why is the Irish flag Green Whit and Orange?

Charles

Instructive as always. Keep up the good work. Mark: Sometimes it seems like you speak of the Left very narrowly. When talking about the events in Berkley, you suggest that the Left is so powerless that the most it can do is destroy an individual here or there. On its face, this idea is plainly absurd. The only possible way it can make any sort of sense is if you take "Left" to mean something extremely narrow and specific. It can be a little confusing.

Lukas Pfannenstiel

The timeliness of this episode was uncanny, given the sudden interest in Irish unification that came out last week as a consequence of not only Sinn Fein's electoral gains, but also increasing calls for another Scottish independence vote, and the distressing realization that Brexit would result in a hard border around Norther Ireland. (see <a href="http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/03/17/it-s-now-clear-northern-ireland-is-leaving-the-union)." rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/03/17/it-s-now-clear-northern-ireland-is-leaving-the-union).</a> If the UK continues down the path to Brexit, it seems like the union drifting apart is a very real possibility, and that the dream of a unified Ireland would come about not through direct struggle, but as the unintended consequence of the Brexit fiasco.

Kevin Walsh

It was the flag of the Young Ireland movement in 1848. It's basically a representation of Wolfe Tone thought: "To unite Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter under the common name of Irishmen in order to break the connection with England, the never failing source of all our political evils, that was my aim". In the flag, the green stands for Catholics, the white for peace, and the orange for Protestants (though it isn't actually quite the right shade of orange).

Kevin Walsh

Wolfe Tone, in case you're wondering, is more or less the patron saint of Irish republicanism - he was a leader of the United Irishmen, and tried to get help from Revolutionary France to secure Irish independence - he was captured by the British, sentenced to be hanged in 1798, and died in jail, traditionally by suicide.

Joel

Any chance of an episode with Pankaj Mishra? His new book seems to touch on a lot of subjects you guys have talked about. Maybe a bit theory heavy, but I'd love to listen to you discuss the intellectual history of angry young men on the show. Haven't had an episode on war and culture in a while.

radiowarnerd

Whoa, Niall Ferguson threatened (just Googled) to sue him for libel. He sounds great.

radiowarnerd

Yes, exactly. I don't think anyone, even McGuinness, thought that scenario would happen--but here we are, as the feller said.

radiowarnerd

The unity idea. Green for the Nationalists, Orange for the Loyalists, white...uh, to keep'em apart?

radiowarnerd

Yeah, we talked about this on the latest show. I've said before there's very little chance of any particular bluff getting serious, but then there are so many bluffs that the odds probably go up.

radiowarnerd

My guess is you've done a lot more research than Bannon. He may not know better, and if he does he's not going to tell it honestly.

radiowarnerd

That's an interesting point. Ireland seemed so poor when I first went there in the 1970s that when I read the Economic War was a failure, it rang true. (Good news is that when I went back after they joined the EU, the change was incredible.)

xnfec

Thanks Kevin. I'd forgotten about Wolf Tone and the Protestant connection to Irish Independence. Years ago, I read in one of the Sargent Lamb books by Robert Graves where Graves mentioned his researches into the origins of the American War of Independence that among the drivers of the revolution were some Ulster weavers. I imagine the Ulster protestants must have had their own particular grieviencies against the Crown.

Kevin Walsh

Well, there were kind of two parts, or, well, three parts, to it. One was the attempt to develop Irish industry behind a tariff barrier, which was basically unsuccessful. Another was an attempt to refocus Irish agriculture from cattle ranching to production of crops like wheat. In the long term this failed, but it did create employment and was probably beneficial during the Second World War. The final part, which was very successful, was a selective default - Irish farmers who had obtained land under the various Land Acts had to pay annuities to Britain for the land. De Valera withheld these payments on the basis that it was Irish land, so Ireland should properly have inherited that asset. As part of the deal in 1938 that ended the Economic War, the annuities were settled for a one off payment worth less than the annual value of the annuities. The value of the annuities was actually quite substantial, and allowed the Fianna Fáil government to expand social programmes and increase benefits like the old age pension while still maintaining a balanced budget during the Great Depression. And in the bargain, the Irish government regained three ports that Britain controlled under the Treaty. Without those ports, it would have been very hard for Ireland to stay neutral in the Second World War.

Kevin Walsh

Re: Irish poverty, Ireland had basically been poor for a long time, but (at least according to economist Kevin O'Rourke) during the 1920s and 1930s its economic performance relative to similarly poor countries was basically dead average. During the 1950s, however, when basically every other country in Europe was booming, Ireland's economy stagnated. It really was the EU that got us out of it. Growing up in the 1980s, I definitely regarded Ireland as a poor country. By the time I was entering college, that was no longer the case.

Tom Durrenberger

What's the music that plays around the 2hr 11min mark?