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The Expanse Ep 2x8 Full Reaction! (Patreon)

Published:
2023-05-03 21:13:19
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Dawes is more dangerous than anyone anticipated. Sync up and find out how!

Files

Previews only

Comments

Zachery Gaskins

Drummer! Also, on the Black Sky Belters - they were listening to Dawes (who was not talking to them directly, they were eavesdropping) and became motivated to take their own shot. Remember that this was the group that tried to drone-strike Avasarala earlier. They are clearly a radical cell. The OPA cannot be perceived as monolithic, and that's why it's simultaneously hard for them to unify their mission AND be taken seriously by Earth & Mars. They need a leader who can convince *enough* of them at once to take action, and that person does not appear to exist.

Xavier

Dawes didn't want the nukes neither authorized the hit on Tycho, it was a rogue group of Belters. In the last episode, Dawes specifically said to all factions that the missiles were useless to them.

James Rob Ross

Just an amazing attention to detail in this episode. On a bleak note did you notice that when the airlock opened the people were not sucked out. The ship had to use maneuvering thrusters and spin the occupants into space. In Hollywood films you normally see people get sucked out but in RL there is not enough air in the small airlock to move the people very far. Also depending on where you are standing in the airlock there is even less air to push on you. A person close to the open airlock door would be moved more than a person closer to the closed airlock door because there is less air between them and the open door. On a brighter note Amos was on the outside spin of Tycho station and did an amazing job of pretending to fight against the angular momentum trying to throw him into space. Also the new Actor was the guy that gave Ellie a stern talking to while she was at school in the Last of Us.

T. Arnold Ferguson

The opening was a dream that Prax was having while unconscious aboard the refugee ship. Therefore the sequence of events is irrelevant. Also, Tycho Station is owned by Tycho Corp, an earth-based engineering company, which employs belters as workers and support staff. Fred is employed as the station chief, and Tycho allows him to manage his OPA activities from there, too.

Daxeah

I loved your discussion after, this is one of the reasons I love this show so much. In the episode, the guy at the airlock with Prax explained their reason as "Inners killed Ganymede (the fight between Mars and Earth), belter life first from now on". It is also important to note that the OPA is made up of numerous (100+) factions. Fred leads one and Dawes leads one. They are both on the more change through political maneuvering side of things. Not all the factions feel the same way.

Rob C

Diogo knew about Cortezar because he helped capture him, but I've seen no evidence that he was one of his guards back on Tycho station.

G. T. Blackwell

We all just saw Terry Chen, the actor who plays Prax, as the Captain in Ellie's Fedra school who has her choose between his keys or his mug. Mei waving at the side of the dome is an error and does mess up the timeline because Bobby saw her waving to them (and we see the marines outside the dome from Mei's perspective) right before the attack. Yet she was also with Strickland leaving the clinic an hour before the attack. Oopsie. Oh well.

Daxeah
>>107770693

You see him outside the cell being a guard when Amos goes to question Cortazar.

Grumples

I really love the back and forth you two have with your differing opinions! Really shows events aren't always so black and white.

Daxeah
>>107770704

I don't think it was an error. If you rewatch episode 6 you see a figure waiving to Bobbie and Co, that is Mei. Then the Martians are ordered back from the border. It cuts away to another scene before going back to Ganymede with an unknown amount of time skipped.

Dor
>>107766060

This. Dawes isn't for using the nukes or killing Fred - he's not controlling those guys. They're just Black Sky, and Black Sky is a radical faction, and they think Dawes makes some pretty good points.

Nerd Going Outside

Don't take this as a criticism, but I was surprised how much energy was spent justifying the arbitrary murder of innocent individuals on the grounds of a legitimate beef with the current government of their place of birth.

stuart greenley

NERDY!!!! great connection, have you ever been punched in the face....... when it happens see how you feel!!! There is something about it! Bonus material Nerdy's Revenge story! I will kill for what I believe in - I believe you should go to two episodes a week! 🤣 Diogo is an OPA member and was a soldier, I don't think he was privy to knowledge of Kotazar. Just like a foot soldier doesn't have all the knowledge of a three-star general. My take was that the factions of Belters acted on their own, not for Dawes or Johnson, but who am I....

Exador1
>>107770704

In episode 6 Mei is waving in the dome the first time we see Bobby on Ganymede, but it is not right before the attack. I assume they are at the start of their patrol. There are 3 other scenes in the show before the attack so some time has past, but how much I don't know. Also Bobby's squad are not as close to any of the domes at that time. Looks like they are miles away by that time so I don't see a timeline error. And the start of episode 8 has a more dream feel.

Thomas Menard

You guys should watch foundation on apple tv. I bet you guys would love that show.

Thomas Menard

I also don’t think many people have reactions to it and there is a second season coming out soon.

stuart greenley
>>107769108

I didn't get the Amos and the Tycho spin the first time, I was like "what is he doing?" It's funny to see people recognize actors in different shows, I saw "Prax" in The Last of Us, not "Cpt Kwong" in The Expanse.

Quark's Bar

Both opinions are correct. The bad guys this ep were a radical group of killers, with a bad plan, that would end up getting a lot of belters killed, achieving nothing for the belt. They did it because, in their minds, due to real life experience, the current pressure cooker situation, and whatever revolution-propaganda they've been fed, they felt they had no other choice.

Bluestar

Its fun watching Clarus being just so done with Nerdy this season. He's like crimes against humanity are a fine and reasonable response to generational abuse and oppression, and she's like I dunno fam, spacing refugees doesn't seems like a good thing.

Hollie Jones

The discussions after the last 2 episodes have been so frustrating. Nerdy is wrong and keeps talking over Clarus who is right. Fortunately this discussion will not come up again for a long time. Nerdy is setting himself up to be a Marco fanboy. I love your reactions just don't agree with Nerdy on this topic. Drummer is a badass!

Joe
>>107777613

Understanding where something comes from is not the same as thinking its fine. Nerdy said multiple times it wasnt okay. He was also entirely correct in pointing out that Clarus is trying to logic through an intensely emotional response. As Naomi said in the previous episode (paraphrased) "lose half your people and then you'll see"

Deana DeWall

Since they didn't mention the goddess of the episode, I vote Drummer! lol

Dan Pettit

Take care of yourselves guys. Get over that crud!

Samuel Eng

Ive seen this show before.... ngl this epi still made me tear up.

Amber A

I think Nerdy's thinking of a song off "Come From Away"...can't remember the name of it, but I recognize those lyrics from that play. I think anyone can agree what was done on the freighter was objectively wrong. Those 'inners' were regular people, no direct control over their governments. This is the base conflict with what's often considered 'terrorism'. Oppressive power marginalizes and subjugates a group, and the longer and more severe that gets, the higher the odds there will be some in that oppressed group that will fight back and use violence. Often, they don't have the ability to harm the people in power. Over enough time, especially generations, they can view the oppressive power's populace as complicit because they're not rising up against the human rights violations against them. That can have some truth to it, even if that responsibility isn't very fairly directed. And when the oppressed strike out in self defence, it gets considered terrorism, because it's easier to categorically dismiss. Yes, sometimes there is a group intending to cause mass terror. Other times, that's not even a consideration, such as this instance. So it's wrong, objectively wrong. But it's definitely a form of respectability politics to say those oppressed who turned to violence can't be trusted. Blanket dismissing them will limit the voices and perspectives of the marginalized, not all violence is the same and carries the same intent (the belters are allowed to have bad people in their population, even bad political sects, when the official UN and Mars governments are both monstrous and morally corrupt, it wouldn't be right to hold the belt to a higher standard than those with power over them), whereas those in power can't be dismissed similarly despite their violence being inflicted on the micro and macro levels. People who engage in self defence still deserve a voice, even if they end up hurting those who aren't directly responsible for their plight. Belters have to fight for air and food and water. it makes a very twisted sort of sense to, after the UN and Mars destroyed Ganymede and their food supply, ensure as many resources as possible go to belters, by any means. Which in this case means spacing the inners on board, because they take up more resources than belters naturally, and the more resources they can spare for belters, the better they can prevent their own deaths. it's not a righteous action, it's not good, but it's a decision I can manage to understand in its base practicality. I didn't get the sense that prejudice led the decision to space the inners on the freighter; the dialogue was "Inners wreck Ganymede. Belter life first from now on." There wasn't glee when he said it, there wasn't outright anger. Just a firm, determined statement of fact. Belters need air, food, and water. They would have more with the Inners off the ship. They can't rely on the belief that the UN/Mars won't keep destroying their homes (or the stations they work in, like Tycho), so they need to keep their resources for themselves, because the UN/Mars won't help them and might keep destroying their ability to survive over their petty squabbles and egos. I fully believe there's existing passive disdain for 'Inners' that may have helped get them to where they feel more comfortable doing what they did, but I doubt it was the driving force. Families in the belt have to let some of their family members due so the rest of them can survive, simply because there aren't enough resources. In that context, with their homes and food supply (and water supply, if you count the Canterbury destruction) being destroyed, and resources being more valuable than gold, they would be able to come to some reasoning to conserve the resources for themselves. One solution to all this, at least through some semblance of justice system, would (at least something along the lines of) be to remove from power the UN and Mars governments en masse and try them for their crimes against humanity, remove and try the Corps leadership helming the stations in the belt, the security forces on those stations, the military, etc. and provide reparations and official rights to the belters, seizing property and wealth of all who gained from the oppression and dispersing it among the population of the belt evenly, and give the belters full control of the stations in the belt in some manner of elected democracy or collectivist government. Of course, Mars and the UN would never agree to that, even if it would be justified, and asking the belters to compromise on justice and reparations would be ethically and morally wrong. They need freedom, yes, but they also need to not be placed at the starting line of a 10000m race that started 40 minutes ago, that's not equitable. Belters wanting a 'seat at the table' would mean something different to each side. The UN and Mars would likely, if absolutely pushed, be good with each having a third share, because they could always vote the belt down. That wouldn't make political sense for belters, hence why the belt considers UN and Mars inners...it's a two-sided system for them because Mars and the UN each treat them horribly, so even if Mars and UN hate each other, they're unified when it comes to the belt. So politics is out. Betting on the goodwill of the average citizens is out, because nothing happened over the generations to help the Belt get out from under the UN and Mars. Nerdy is right that the belters don't have any good options left. They don't have any good options left *because* the UN and Mars reject any potential good options because they have the power and are unwilling to yield it. The staff on the freighter did kill all those regular people, but that evil act was rooted in the UN and Mars's ongoing effective genocide, they lovingly coaxed those conditions out of the aether with their oppression of the belters and destruction of their food supply, and it was all entirely preventable.

Bluestar
>>107777613

I agree. But he also wasn't condemning the action either, you can know something is wrong and still be okay with it given the circumstances. I'm a be honest, the way Nerdy was talking about everything genuinely gave me the impression that he implicitly agreed with their actions, even as he was horrified. He is very clearly on the side of "The oppression of the belt justifies any actions the belters take, regardless of its merit or morality. Because at this point what do you expect people to do." It's fine to understand why the people of the belt feel like they have no other options at this point. But these people were helpless refugees and his attitude this episode just gave me that impression.

Daxeah
>>107787858

When I fist looked at this, I was like damn, they wrote a book! But I can't help but agree with you on all fronts. Thank you for putting the right words to how I feel about the situation.

PKS
>>107787858

@Daxeah, can you share 10% of your patience with me please.

Xavier
>>107774848

Sorry but Foundation is garbage. Not only a terrible adaptation (unlike The Expanse) but also a nonsensical and boring execution. Curiously, the only interesting part of the show is the Clone Dynasty plot which is completely made up for the tv show. They should have made their own IP instead.

Daxeah
>>107787858

I don't know if you want it... it comes with annoying side effects but on the flip side I hyperfocuse like a boss. (ADHD for the win)

Bryce Carlson

Do you remember when Bobbie's team was first on patrol she saw somebody waving at them from the agricultural dome? That was Mei Meng.

Bryce Carlson

A person can be smart. People are dumb, panicky animals that will expect the worst. And that is particularly true in the Belt. After all, Anderson Dawes expects the worst of Fred Johnson. And if I say more, I will be accused of spoiling.

Bryce Carlson

The "problem," is that Earthers, Martians, and Belters each see both of the others as "sub-human" and that they are therefore justified to treat the others in any way that they choose with no moral compunctions.

Bryce Carlson

Once Wes Chatham was told Amos Burton's backstory, he went ahead and researched that background so he could do the character justice.

Armani

whenever the next voting poll is , I still think you guys should react THE BOYS by Amazon prime

Zyrus
>>107774234

Less justifying, and more understanding their motive. Understanding a motive is not the same as condoning an action. Detectives learn why murderers murder all the time, that doesn't mean they think murder is ok.

Zyrus

"Fred has influence in the belt because of Dawes" This is factually not true. If it was true, Drummer would not have remained loyal when the scientist was kidnapped or during the attempted hijack of the missiles.

Daxeah
>>107831163

I'm pretty sure he knew Amos's backstory going into the audition, he already loved the character and only wanted to play him.

MrPdub247

You might of missed some nice drummer dialogue during your argument, great episode!

Anna Kyruin
>>107769864

I think it's important to keep the context in mind of what "Inners killed Ganymede" means to the belt too. Ganymede is where most of their food comes from, and with so much of it destroyed they will be made even more dependent on earth and mars, which makes earth and mars more capable of abusing their disadvantage. (Yay Capitalism!)

DrEEsky

Mostly it seems you are "arguing" on the same side of the equation here. Nerdy sees the motivation for the Belters on Tycho station to cause chaos, even if they die for it and Clarus (?) also understands they are upset and angry but doesn't understand the value of the actions they are taking. One on the refugee ship to cruelly make the Inners think they are going to another ship and then space them (they all went through the same catastrophe together!) and then the faction on Tycho shooting Drummer for not joining them and shooting another belter when Fred refuses to give them the launch codes. Their plan is of course to fire the nukes at Earth and cause chaos (very often the motivation for a lot of radical behavior!!) even if they are killed and as someone who believes in peace, live and let live like Clarus, I also don't get the point even if I understand the motivation. On another note, Clarus' guesses about what is to happen are routinely On Point!! Amazing work there! "something terrible is about to happen", it did, "the protomolecule is on Ganymede", it was! You have my attention and you really "get" this show!!

Adam Pacio
>>107769247

But he did remember Mae waving out the dome windows at someone... Bobbie's team doing exercises outside. Mae was on her way to the clinic/school which is why she had on her backpack. And why by the time the mirrors actually fell, she wasn't in the dome any more. For the exact timing, go back to The Seventh Man and watch the scene again. You see Mae waving well before the mirrors fall.

Adam Pacio
>>107770693

Diogo being one of Cortazar's guards makes sense when you have a prisoner whose very existence needs to be kept quiet. Very likely the folks who were rotating in and out of guard duty for him were all the belters who had volunteered for the capture mission in the first place, because they already knew who they had. Not the ideal, but a way to kind of keep them paid off and under your thumb while also using them to provide security for Cortazar when you can't trust anyone else to be brought in on the secret. I'm sure they were paid handsomely for simple guard duty, and buying their silence. Diogo was manipulated by Dawes and it never occurred to him that Dawes might be playing him to get at Fred.

Sinewmire

The thing you might be missing is that Anderson Dawes genuinely believes in the siblinghood and mutual sharing of an anarchist Belter nation. Fred wants to use the nukes and the protomolecule to create a new Belter governement, in the model of Earth or Mars. Anderson Dawes doesn't want to become Earth or Mars. The oppressors, where the few hoard as much power as they can, and all the people can do is hope those in power today are good people. He wants to keep the Belt as it is - cooperation and mutual assistance against the real enemy, space. So Anderson Dawes shares the information. For better or for worse, he believes that humanity is better off if everyone has the weapons, everyone has the knowledge. Even if it causes arguments and fights, they are arguments and fights between equals. That's my take on it, anyway.

CrazyChameleon

You really think that vengeful thug wouldn't have used the missiles if he hadn't been lied too. You're naive bro.

Albert Johnston
>>135321405

Strong agree. Imagine someone abuses a dog every day, and it ends up mean. This is obviously wrong, and they should stop. But there's a huge difference between treating the dog better and putting the dog in front of a room full of babies, thinking it'll just be "chill" now. So with the belters, while *clearly* the inners treat the belters like they're less than human, the answer is to begin treating them better, not to suddenly give them a weapon they'd potentially use against the inners. That said, in the case of the knowledge of the protomolecule, it isn't really an issue of giving anyone a weapon, it's just a question of "do you give information and cause a panic based on limited information or hide information until it's ready at the risk of loss of trust if it gets out". I think there's a strong argument on both sides here, unlike the weapon thing. I'd probably lean towards hiding it, depending on the circumstance, but it really would heavily depend.