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The Expanse Ep 2x13 Full Reaction! (Patreon)

Published:
2023-06-09 00:46:31
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Sink up for the FINALE?!?

Files

Previews only

Comments

Dan Pettit

That's an exciting thumbnail! Might have to elbow Clarus a few times to keep her awake.

Shawn Anomaly

Caliban's War...the name of the program Mars go into bed with Mao for Protomolecule was named "Project Caliban" S3 will address more about good ole "Project Caliban" for you so you can look forward to that!

G. T. Blackwell

Great episode. Just an FYI: The audio of the next episode is overlaid over your post-watch discussion.

Daxeah

One point yall missed in previous episodes. The original hybrid that attacked Bobbies team was destroyed at the end of the demonstration. You see it at the end of the 2x6 with the white light being the blast. I don't know if this will change your opinions but it is an important clarification.

PapaXan

It was indeed Adam Savage. He was a close friend of the show and interviewed many members of the cast and the prop masters. All those videos are on YouTube. This story line actually doesn't wrap up until the middle of season 3, which is typical for this show, and season 3 is probably the best. Not that the rest aren't awesome, but you'll find that out yourselves.

Daxeah

Also your discussion afterwards just makes me so excited for yall to watch the next season. Lmao it's going to be sooo good.

Sicarrax

A couple things I've noticed after a couple rewatches. 1. there were two hybrids on Ganymede. the first one that destroyed the U.N. and Martian marines had it's failsafe detonated right before it could kill Bobby. though it did take a couple rewatches to catch this. 2. the M.C.R.N. Karakum never made it to Ganymede for the pick up since Errinwright had it destroyed. since the station is in such a state of collapse it is highly likely that no one has gone to the lab since Holden left meaning that only the crew of the Roci know that the hybrid got out and killed everyone. as far as Earth, Mars and Mao are concerned the hybrids are completely controllable. 3. I'm fairly certain that the hybrid on the Roci was only able to do what it did since it was receiving no command inputs from anyone. The only people that could have given it commands to follow died when it escaped so it probably defaulted to searching for a food source. as far as we know at this point any hybrid used in a combat situation would follow its commands and destroy any targets. One thing I don't like about the show v.s. the books here is that during the weapons test/demo for earth and mars, one hybrid took out nearly a hundred U.N. and Martian marines in power armor and weapon mechs. The show only shows it taking on almost ten people but these things are way more powerful than the show lets on. 4. thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Bryce Carlson

When Errinwright shows his datapad to Avarsarela and then she shows it to Bobbie the referent is "Project Caliban," so that appears to be what the protomolecule creatures are being called.

Thomas Menard

When you read the books one thing you will notice is the writers are clearly obsessed with Shakespeare caliban is a monster from the play the tempest and if you read the books the tempest is an important name to remember.

Bryce Carlson

In the book, Cotyar smuggled Draper's armor onto the yacht in a crate marked "formal wear."

Thomas Menard

Also the golden bough the gang is a name taken from a very important book the golden bough which is a book on the study of mythology and religion and how it shapes societies which is very fitting for the world building in this show the golden branch is from some old greek mythology a key to get into hades sort to speak

Thomas Menard

They do have controls in place for the protomolecule if it wasn’t for those meddling kids also the one on Ganymede was self destructed by the drone before it killed bobby.

Thomas Menard
>>110336353

I barely understand this myself i just remember reading about this someone in the comments can chew me out for this poor explanation later lol

Deana DeWall

A caliban is basically half human/half monster. It's in Shakespeare. The Caliban that killed Bobbie's team was blown up by it's controllers, so it isn't the only one. Mars never received the pm because of what Errinwright did. The bodyguard/spy is named Cotyar.

Bryce Carlson

At this point in the story, nobody really knows what the protomolecule is, and in not knowing what it is, they keep attempting to apply it to their own projects. The "infectious" nature of the protomolecule is what Strickland is trying to control with the children's genetic dysfunction.

Bryce Carlson

I hope I don't get called for spoilers if I say that Nerdy will get his wish to find out what the protomolecule is by the end of season three.

The Modulator

Don't worry about the commenters. We're a bunch of knuckleheads with good taste in TV. We enjoy feeding the algorithm gods!

Bryce Carlson

The ship landing to pick up the Caliban was the one that Errinwright blew up before it could take delivery. And at this point, Mao knows that the ship went down, but nothing else. And Strickland does not know what happened, because he packed up and headed to Io. Speed of communication is another thing that is not stressed sufficiently in the show.

Bryce Carlson

Everybody is missing the fact that Mars has NOT taken possession of the Caliban, because Errinwright killed Mars' agent, and crashed the ship sent to take delivery of the Caliban.

Bryce Carlson

At this point, the only person that Mao (or Errinwright) knows to have possession is Mao. NOBODY knows that Fred Johnson has the protomolecule at this time.

Nerd Going Outside

With Clarus on this one, I think. It seemed to me that there were two branches of Mao Protomolecule Research: - The Eros/Dresden branch: This is, like, the academic/moonshot branch. We found this crazy technology, lets watch it and see what it does. Dresden wanted to, like, evolve humanity. And Mao keeps making comments like he's a believer in this idea too. - The Ganymede/Strickland branch: This is the Product branch. We found this crazy technology, how do we turn it into a product we can sell ASAP. Understanding it is less important than monetizing it. I assume all the shit Mao is doing is draining even HIS massive wealth, and the governments of Earth/Mars won't be up his ass about his OTHER protomolecule research if they think he's building them a weapon. Also, we know for sure that the Hybrid the Rocinante killed is NOT the same hybrid as the one who killed Bobby and her team. At the end of the Bobby scene, after she wakes up, when the Hybrid is looking right at her, there's an explosion. That was confusing then, but now after the finale we know the Hybrids have a command/control module embedded in their chest that also works as a failsafe - the Roci hybrid tears it out of its chest and it explodes, so it feels like the protomolecule is, like, outsmarting whatever controls humans have put on it? Anyway it seems clear that on Ganymede Mao/Strickland let a hybrid out to attach the Earth marines as a sales demo - it killed them, then killed Bobby's team, then whoever was watching with the drone triggered its failsafe and blew it up? That was pretty successful. It's possible that neither Mao nor Mars knows quite what happened on Ganymede with the hybrid escaping - it was supposed to be picked up by the Karakum, but Errinwright had the Karrakum destroyed. Then the station broke down. Also, Mars had a very strict no fly zone in place at this time - I assume because they were afraid of Protomolecule Somethingorother escaping ganymede? Anyway, Strickland seems to have a big lab/facility somewhere as per the final scene, so maybe Ganymede won't be the end of whatever he was doing. Excited to find out!

Xavier

I don't know if these guys read the commens but, Nerdy, you need to think about the protomolecule hybrids as weapons of mass destruction. "Control" is irrelevant when all they have to do is drop a bunch of hybrids on either planet. Everyone and everything will be annihilated and the side that uses it will still consider it a success.

Tom M

Yep, the finale was quite depressing. Control. The Monster - the Caliban (XVIth century literature in use) is just a way to apply knowledge about it for certiain, specific use - this time a super-weapon. And that was supposed to make it easier to contain. To certain degree it was actually achieved, but this time the hybrid monster was without its minders who couldn't activate the incendiary device. You could say due to unforseen circumstances, but that is how many disasters involving new technologies happen. And this one is super deadly. I think that the entire problem with the protomolecule in humand hands is that some people deceive themselves they 'finally get it' how to keep it safe. Or that 'this time' they will. Anyway there will be more about that, even Adam Savage (yes, it was him) is somehow involved. Or rather was. The Spy. I loved all scenes on the Mao's flying hotel ship. Such a lovely, different scenery and some interesting conversations you don't expect from action scenes. It reminded me Die Hard a lot. Season 3 will be difficult to watch mainly because it is so good you barely can stop watch it all one after another. That is what I did - just seen it in one (long) evening, but it is extremely rewatchable - one, huge payoff for all the ground, world building done in seasons 1 and 2. Plus one, entire new thing... Take care!

Jeremy - OrchidEater
>>110338516

Anything that spoils the viewing experience should be considered a spoiler. It doesn't only mean spoiling events or plot.

Jeremy - OrchidEater

I think the "proto" prefix suggests that the protomolecule could be any number of things, depending on what's being done with it, or from another perspective, what it has access to. They probably named it that because they observed how it behaved under certain conditions. IOW, It's a protomolecule in the sense that's a precursor for other form of something., or to put it another way, an "alien stem cell."

Florian

Very good discussion part at the end, you are asking some very good questions. Some of the comments IMO have spoilers, I won't tell which ones, but I can assure you that there will be answers for every question in the future. I think Clarus is right about the selling process, the first test on Ganymede was a success, the accident was another hybrid and the grenade destroyed it's containment, where it was locked and sedated with anesthetic gas. However it was risky to only have these safetymeasures. As for the motivations, I would say no one acts completly irrational in this show, it's just some people have reasons to do something dangerous for their own or their factions agenda. There will be more informations in season 3.

T. Arnold Ferguson

"Caliban" was the name of the project that was developing the protomolecule hybrids. This has been referenced a couple of times in the dialog and on a couple of data screens. Caliban was also a half-human/half-monster creature in Shakespeare's "The Tempest." You need a little patience. The nature of the protomolecule will be explained in future episodes. "Governments wouldn't buy something that couldn't be controlled." Obviously you're not familiar with DARPA. 😀

Aldo Cassola

Just came here to say that I loved your discussion. Both of you are right regarding the success of the protomolecule projects. They go very poorly so far and they haven't explained to us what the extent of their knowledge is. But they have shown us people are learning about it. It was contagious and uncontrolled on Eros. Now it's not. They can HYBRIDIZE it with humans. They can control it to some degree. What will they be able to do next? Tune in next season to find out! :) If there is something I know about life is that the people will move forward confidently not when they have full knowledge but when they know just enough to deceive themselves that they know. And that is Mao.

MrStelmacki

You both made great points. Unfortunately, Nerdy, history shows that governments are very keen on buying weapons/technology based off of promised results regardless of safety hazards. I can’t wait for next week and the rest of season 3.

jessplusinfinity

Gah, remember when we weren't sure we'd get season 3? That was a dark time

Alexandre Antunes

They were different ones, you saw the one from Ganymede die from the device in its chest

DrEEsky
>>110389155

We knew we had Season 3, we didn't know we would get beyond that! (I was part of the group that helped rescue the show. It was cancelled by SciFi when S3E6 aired in May 2018 and rescued by S3E8 two weeks later when Amazon picked it up for Season 4 and later on 5 and 6.) But yes, a very dark 2 weeks when they were literally starting to take down the sets!! Google #SaveTheExpanse to see some of the videos made at that time to save the show!

DrEEsky
>>110389155

Actually, don't do that! Too many spoilers, wait until you finish the show!

DrEEsky
>>110333710

After a while Nerdy said it was "irritating him"! We had to wait more than a year for that intro!!

Sinewmire
>>110344141

Or that it is trademarked and owned by Protogen, sadly, which says a lot about humanity.

Sinewmire

If you wanted a good metaphor... when the USA tested their atom bombs, they knew there was a chance it could ignite all the air on earth, but they tested it anyway, because they were at war. Earth and Mars are both willing to take huge risks to use the next breakthrough in weaponry, even if they don't fully understand it. And they really don't. In the books, Holden talks about the 'monkey and the microwave' to illustrate how they don't understand what the protomolecule is for. One Monkey opens the door and the light comes on, so he decides the microwave is a light. Another opens and closes the door, and decides it's a box to keep things in. Another monkey hurts himself on it and decides it's a weapon. No monkey ever microwaved a frozen burrito, though. They don't know what it's *for* only what it *does*.

Mitchell Edward Newton

It's not that this show is necessarily more mature, it's just that most mainstream products aren't anymore. Especially in SF&F. The throwaway, Joss Whedon humor that made avengers so good ahs been done to death and kills so many emotional show moments. That and rather than progress the plot, they have to create drama by having people act like children, the expanse is adapting pretty closely to the books. Far more than anything else at the moment and that means they can use the actual drama the writers used and not create as much show BS to create drama. Most shows cut away before characters have a chance to hash things out or its done off screen because a lot of adaptations have been pretty lazy. In the expanse it always feels like your shaking your head by how well done it is.