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85(P) - Where International Law Can't Save You ft. Kirsten Per Andersen (Patreon)

Published:
2019-05-05 18:34:53
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2026-06
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Kirsten Per Anderson @Kirsten_Per, Politics PhD Candidate at York University, Graduate Fellow Nathanson Centre, joins us to discuss international law. What is international humanitarian law, and what are war crimes/crimes against humanity? How does the lawlessness of the power relate to international law. Thabo Mbeki criticisms the International Criminal Court with the ANC's efforts to end the aprtheid era in South Africa.  Justice or peace? justice and peace for whom? How do we reform/graduate from these legal systems without enlarging the power of global reaction?

Comments

BBA

You need to fix your RSS feed for real

Bijou Smith

People get confused about the word "justification". No amount of UN sign-off would have justified the invasion of Iraq. It would only relieve people from the fear of prosecution under IHL (legal justification) but it would not have relieved the neocons of the condemnation in the eyes of others (moral justification). A respected IL professor (former PM of New Zealand) once told me (when I was young and naive) that the Law had nothing to do with Justice. I thought he was barking mad, but I've since understood true moral justice is aided by Law only when society wants it to be.

Bijou Smith
>>22573200

So if we want a better world with regard to international human rights we need worldwide society to decide that absolute rights of sovereign states are an imperialist anachronism, and all governments should be subject to international law.

Bijou Smith

I found Mbeki's interview frustrating. He is talking about idiots who are/were using the ideas of peace in a hegemonic fascistic way. There is no conflict between Peace and Justice. There is only conflict between material manifestations of these ideals. Eliminating apartheid and relieving oppression is not a trumping of peace over justice nor justice over peace as Mike Hannah wanted to frame it. Promoting Peace is a form of Justice, because it asserts the right of a people to live without fear and without oppression. Wrecking peace by dragging potential peace-makers into the ICC is the epitome of sanctimonious neoliberal oppression, and wholly unnecessary, because once there is peace then later the lesser injustices can be addressed (often the lesser injustices can only be addressed once there is peace, but this is not "trumping" is is merely delaying). On the other hand, the South Sudanese leader wanting to prop up Al-Bashir in order to make peace was delusional, because he was confusing a political peace for a real peaceful freedom from oppression. Mbeki was right about de Klerck, but it was a false dilemma as Kirsten points out, in the end they can get both peace and justice, the greater justice was for a whole society. Great to listen to her.

Bijou Smith

The *way forward* surely has to be a completely transparent and completely democratic world government. No hegemony. Backed by collective security. It does not have to be perfect at first, provided we allow such social institutions to evolve.