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107(P) - An Illicit History of Social Democracy ft. Bhaskar Sunkara (Patreon)

Published:
2019-09-22 13:44:30
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Bhaskar Sunkara (@SunraySunray), editor of Jacobin magazine and author of "The Socialist Manifesto: The Case for Radical Politics in an Era of Extreme Inequality" joins us to discuss Social Democracy and where it intersects and doesnt with Socialism. The surprising figures who considered themselves "social democrats." Nationalism vs internationalism around WW1. What would a Social Democracy vs a Democratic Socialist state. Postwar welfare state growth. The Sweden model. The passive blackmail of capitalists and why allowing them to maintain power is a mistake. Social Democracy in the developing world. Why Bernie and Corbyn aren't typical social democrats and why that's necessary.

Comments

connor rodham clinton

saying working class people in the industrial core did not benefit from the exploitation, or looting as it could be correctly called, is factually inaccurate. imperialism allowed for the creation of a labor aristocracy and a broader “middle/upper mid class” to in effect be a buffer between the exploited and oppressed masses and the oligarchs.

Huzaifa Ahmed
>>27092608

That could be chalked up more to the socialist movements in the imperial core - plus the social democratic concessions that were forced by both them and the USSR (& later, and certainly in the near future, China)

Bijou Smith

@35 min Bashkar hits the nail, but it kinda bends. The more radical committed lefties I know, are studious types, maybe call them socialist nerds, but they learn, and diligently study MMT as well as international socialism, and they thus know democratic socialists of 2020, or even of tomorrow, are not dependent upon capital. If you understand sovereign monopoly power of money and tax, you do not need oligarchs. They can get the fuck out of your country if they don't like regulations promoting social/worker ownership, and you can do what Iceland did (post GFC): slap them with capital controls to prevent capital flight. They will not be able to shift their factories. So they are fucked. This is how to practically almost overnight transition to democratic socialism. With a sovereign currency you do not need private capital for a single thing. But you can tolerate them sticking around. If they can match wages of a Job Guarantee (q.v. Bernie/AOC Green New Deal) they'll be able to stay in business. and make profits if they do not abuse their workers. Truth is, likely not many capitalists will flee. They know the USA has too much intrinsic wealth.

Bijou Smith
>>27403429

The power of a monetary sovereign is, in a real sense of shifting digits around, INFINITE. But shifting bits in bank accounts also mobilizes real material resources, far more powerfully than neoliberal Friedmanesque monetarism. Fiscal policy is frickin "all-powerful". Liberals are afraid to use it. Leftie socialists should not be afraid, they will have the people on their side. A people's government has far more power than capital. You guys seem to not appreciate this. Contrast it with a conservative government wielding the same sovereign money power, WTF are they gonna do but spend the sovereign money on wars and welfare for oligarchs. So nothing new. There's an absolute shame limit and social stigma on how much a money sovereign can use fiscal deficit policy to enrich oligarchs, and we've already basically hit that limit in the USA. It could get a little worse I guess, but not much. They (conservatives, and liberal elites) have no power using the sovereign currency than they already have had under Reagan and Bush and the mad one. Lefties do. A socialist who understands MMT will be transformational overnight. You should realize this is VERY close to being Bernard Sanders --- his top economic advisors are MMT economists, Kelton & Wray et al. If this were more widely known capitalists would be pissing themselves. It'll be checkmate. Folks, I hope to dear God that Bernie wins the Primary.