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DBS Reaction Ep. 81 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-11 15:43:04
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2026-06
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Comments

Christian Vazquez

I remember when this episode dropped some people disliked the fight but for me I LOVED seeing Goku go all out no bull crap he just powered up and beat the snot out of Bergamo. Felt like when I go try hard in a game lol and I loved it

Victor

I disliked that there’s quite literally 8 universes, and each have literal gods and angels and they couldn’t put it together that all their universes were already going to be destroyed. But thanks to Goku 1 of those 8 have a fight chance at existing. The constant blaming Goku for having the other universes was quite aggravating when the grand minister said himself that they were all already in the choppin block🤦‍♂️. Also I never understood the no killing rule in the TOP, like 7/8 universes will be erased anyways😂 and I doubt the Omni kings care for the mortals life’s, if anything if the winning universe had deaths the Omni king could just bring them back😅. Weird rule in my opinion. Also way off topic but I watched TOP when I had just came out and due to that the sub version was the only available one, so top was called toppo, I was so pissed to find out they didn’t keep the same name😂 top just sounds wierd, but anyways great reaction guys

Mike Smith

The power scaling is so messed up. Let’s take a moment to realize that Bergamo using only the power he got from ssj goku was able to resist a kamehameha from an ssjb kaioken.

Gohanks
>>119569792

I guess most people blame Goku because of his carelessness. When he did what he did, it was entirely for selfish reasons. Yes, he did end up giving those universes an extra chance, but that was just added in to the plot later on for convenience. I myself think it was essential for the plot either ways.

matt

Goku is the villain though.

Jorge

Those 8 universes were going to be erased anyway, they should thank goku!! I swear those gods are stupid for not listening well😂😂😂

Nicholas Moore

Ugh… I hate Toppo.. all hype and doesn’t even knock anyone out. Plus his character design is terrible and needs to go to the Sonic universe

Giocar

Oh BY THE WAY, Bergamo is an Italian city in the north of the country 😂

Ichigoat
>>119571173

He didn’t resist it Goku wasn’t even worried when he got to it, it was over instantly. Even though he was absorbing Goku’s Kamehameha. It’s the same case for Tien pushing cell back

Victor
>>119569792

I get his reasons were selfish for sure but giving them a chance to exist should out way his “selfishness” it’s as if prisoners were to be executed to make room for new ones but they didn’t know and some other random prisoner unknowingly gave the prison an idea for a tournament of anything (doesn’t have to be fighting) so the prison uses that as a reason to save 1 of the already pre determine prisoners that were going to die. If I was one of those I’d be great full regardless for the motive of the one that unwillingly gave the idea, even if it was for his selfish reasonings 😂 but yeah I agree with it being crucial for the plot, I don’t even really mind that they blame Goku but the fact that all universes blame Goku, like was there no intelligent one that were able to see the opposite side😂

Shado

This is my first time watching super in dub. Had no idea they changed Toppo's name to Top

Victor
>>119571465

He was annoying at the start but actually like him after he condemned his justice mindset, was a cool design, but even if he didn’t knock out anyone was no doubt he could’ve easily done so, cause did dispo eliminate anyone? And he was obviously a powerhouse as well, (honestly don’t remember if he got anyone out😅)

Jameelo Jameelo

They said that the Omni kings wanted to destroy the weakest universes anyway, and this way at least they have a chance so no Goku didn’t doom them all, he gave them a chance to stay alive.

Gohanks

I never liked the fact that they changed Toppo’s name to Top in the dub. Also, I know it may be unpopular, but I feel like Toppo would have made a way more compelling final antagonist rather than Jiren.

Darryl Greene
>>119571173

Well Mike, whether messed up in this fight or not....the power scaling as a whole in this series truly is. We just have to forget everything we know...and just enjoy. lol ;)

Mike Smith
>>119571173

Bergamo pushed it back and goku had to up his higher, that’s resisting.

CountChopulla

Crazy no one realizes Goku is actually giving their universe a chance to live, not die. Also, Bergamo always reminded me of Wolf from Star Fox 64

Ichigoat
>>119571173

Yes even with absorbing Goku’s punches and Kamehameha he still effortlessly got pushed back when Goku used more power.

JV

You should check out death battle on YouTube Frieza vs Megatron. It just came out a couple days ago, it’s animated really well and very crisp. Maybe after DBS Super Hero.

JV
>>119574663

Toppo does sound way better, especially with how it sounds in the Sub.

Tony Wallace

If I’m not mistaken super 17 was like this no?

Dr Moss

Piccolo also could increase his size in Dragon Ball

Marcel Westbrook

The reason he doesn’t ask about changing the condition of the losing universes getting erased is because Whis told Goku not to ask Zeno about it because of how he may react. Even though Goku ignores Beerus a lot he tends to listen when Whis gets serious and tells him something.

Mikasa_Axmn

Again, it is not Goku's fault if the universes are getting erased ! Goku gave everyone a chance to survive ! In fact, Zeno had already planned on erasing the 8 universes beforehand ! Vados explains that in a couple episode to Champa because he was blaming Goku ! Also, in the manga, at the very beginning of the ToP arc, even before Goku comes to ask Zeno about the Tournament, Zeno tells the Grand Priest on how there are to many universes, and that the will only leave the 4 that have the highest Mortal Level ! The Grand Priest was just about to summon every angel of the 12 Universes, when he was interrupted by Goku, giving them the idea the should host a Tournament !

Anthony Cross
>>119576171

Goku may have provided one of these universes a chance to survive, but he's still being a selfish dismissive little s***! Oooo wow I'm so excited, this is going to be fun. I know Goku always enjoys fighting strong foes, but I can't help but feel Z era Goku would have immediately no longer found the situation as fun and will have gotten serious over the situation. In Super he doesn't seem to care. At first he's like dang the universe are on the line shoot that sucks, then 5 seconds later goes back to drooling over the prospect of a great Battle. He's a fight junkie in the Super era and It's really disappointing for me to say that because goku used to be one of my favorite characters. He is a fighting mastermind, childish and naive everywhere else. He just can't read the room to save his life. Just an example here, Bergamo taking advantage of the situation and tries to sway the public perception in his favor. He tells the spectators "Hey this is all Goku's fault, we're in this situation because of him!" Everybody not thinking clearly because they're worried over the situation buys it, then Bergamo smartly requests the Xenos drop the universe wiping stipulation if he beats Goku. Goku wins, and makes and it initially look like he proves Bergamo's point for him. Instead of taking the public perpection L and shutting up. He makes things worse by proceeding to goad everybody into coming at him, give me everything you got, bring it on! which puts an even bigger target on universe 7's back come tournament time. Remember a lot of these characters are meeting Goku for the first time. and this is their first impression of him. If I was one of these guys and this is how he carries himself, I would hate him too. The universes are on the line and this is just a game for him. And even if it really isn't the case, he's certainly giving off that impression. To Goku this is " my next great challenge." Really bad look here

Mikasa_Axmn
>>119580599

Yes, but not by absorbing energy, it was his own ability ! Crazy how he never used that technique again until Super Hero lol

Solebat

Vegeta let Cell become perfect.

Mike Smith
>>119571173

Ssjb with kk, against ssj power. The point is goku shouldn’t of needed to use more power, it by all logic and rights should of been such a difference that goku would of accidentally and effortlessly killed him

Anthony Cross

The writing was actually pretty good in this episode. And it's highlighting one of the biggest glaring problems with Goku in the super era. Hes too Battle hungry, hes a fight junkie. He is grown way too excited and nonchalant when it comes to fighting that it's to his absolute detriment now. A few episodes ago he literally hired Hit to kill him, just to get a good fight out of it. Now you have the debacle here where Goku by dumb luck provides 1 of 8 universes a chance to survive erasure in the TOP. Nobody's thinking clearly because they're too worried about just learning of the situation. Bergamo taking advantage of the situation and sways public perception of Goku here as public enemy #1, this is very brilliant. Then right after wins public favor by offering an out in asking Zeno to drop the stipulation if he defeats this percieved manace Goku. Goku wins and almost as if proving Bergamo's point for him, then goads everybody to come at him 100%, putting a further target on universe 7's back. So yeah, they're not gonna see Goku's war mongering as something to be admired. This is most of these character's first time introduction to Goku. And he's acting so casual, dismissive and naive about how dangerous the situation is. This is a really bad look for Goku

Byakuran

Something I didnt notice untill now is the dub actually cuts alot of content out..... Also why did they change toppo to top? Weird change.

Troinell

Remember, whis advised goku not to ask zeno to not eliminate the other universes so he doesn't feel undermined and risk being eliminated on the spot. I'm not calling him top, he's forever toppo lol

Byakuran
>>119587257

yeah they did a lot of weird cringy changes this arc so far that im noticing.

Dante

Goku definitely pulled back a bit at the beam struggle to measure his power I think lol

Ichigoat
>>119571173

Yes because he was reflecting Goku’s own energy back at him, the entire point of his ability is to absorb and get stronger. Goku simply did a burst Kamehameha to push it back, on top of that when Goku transforms he doesn’t go all out in fact he never does until facing Toppo and Jiren.

Mike Smith
>>119571173

His ssj energy, which should have been entirely effortless for gokus ssjb to overpower with no hope of Bergamo pushing back. Dude… Goku outright said to Zeno after Bergamo lost he did not hold back. What’s the point of popping a kaioken if he’s simply holding back in blue anyway?

Christopher Smith

Yea goku is the reason they have a fighting chance anyways with out that they would have been destroyed anyway

CYBRLFT

It is so interesting because in the manga, Goku is not portrayed as a villain at all. In his battle with Toppo, they're both excited to test each other's limits as warriors. If anything the other destroyers really dislike Beerus because of a funny god level hide and seek match that he ruined eons ago hahaha, but this Goku is the bad guy thing is unique to the anime. The universes learn of the intent to cull anyways and don't cast blame on the 7th for this chance to be redeemed. Wonder why they went so far off course with the anime.

Victor
>>119576171

Why does his intention matter when what he has provided is much more than his “selfish” motives. A universe gets to live thanks to goku and entire universe, let that sink in, and your telling me you can’t see past his so called selfish motives to see what kind of an opportunity he’s given for a doomed universe?😂 as for goku “not taking it seriously” he is. He just doing it in the way he’s being portrayed in super, the problem is you keep assuming Z goku has to be how super goku has to be. At this point it’s obvious they’re different so comparing the two will only bring dislike to 1. Gokus hunger for fighting is what pushes him to be as strong as he is. Making the situation as hard as he can is what helps him always prosper. That same goofy non serouis Goku you dislike so much is the reason he’s allowed to talk to the literal Omni king as a familiar in comparison to all others. You might see him being goofy and talking out of character as not taking it serious but it’s quite the contrary. The example you gave with bergamo was an opening Goku used to make sure to create a situation where he’d be forced into finding some kind of new level to beat such a devastating scenerio. Everyone loves to make fun of Goku for how goofy he is but when it comes to fighting there is no one better than Goku to find a way out and him going all out is him being himself or at least the goofy super goku. And as you saw the TOP I’m sure you saw just how Goku being super Goku paid off more than fine. So I get your point but z Goku and super goku are different we have to accept that so that also means they have different motives, styles and training ideas than one another. The quite only thing they both have is their intelligence in the fight scene

Venomous

Goku is a martial artist so its only natural that he plays around to see the maximum power of his opponents before he actually goes all out in order for him to reach new level of power.

raz1337

This part always bugged me because Goku didn't know what was going to happen when he asked for the tournament. Plus the Zenos were going to destroy universes and Whis told Goku to not instigate the Zenos about it, so this really just ends up making the other universes look stupid and Goku doesn't even try to correct them. It just ends up being weird how they did all this, and then in the actual tournament, I think only Top even brings it up. All the other universes just end up only caring about survival and forget about hating Goku.

raz1337

If you even want to cast blame, the whole tournament is Champa's fault for starting the 6th/7th tournament that made Zeno want to do the tournament of power.

Ogre328

Do Zenny's weird skinny guards do anything other than scowl at people? Does Zenny even need body guards? I wanna know what their story is.

Anthony Cross
>>119572728

The initial dislike for Goku is because everybody is panicked about just hearing the news that their universe will probably get erased, they aren't thinking clearly. Bergamo's got public perception into believing that Goku doomed the universes. Goku being unable to read the room, Goku goads everybody into attacking him with everything they got come tournament time. Putting a further target on universe 7's backs. Maybe the reason why a lot of these gods don't like Goku, is because this is their first introduction to him and he's carrying himself like this. Goku could just won the exhibition and left it at that. Instead he's displaying a dismissive carefree attitude towards the whole situation. Again even if he realizes this is a serious situation he's not displaying that to everybody. Instead Goku is making it seem like he thinks that this is a big game for him. Not hard to see why these characters would see that as selfish, and dislike him for it

Legiey

I still call him toppo, top is to funny for me

Anthony Cross
>>119571228

The gods aren't thinking clearly because they're panicked because they are only just now hearing the news of their universe possibly getting wiped in a tournament they never wanted or asked for. Then you got this, from their perspective: weird gleeful a$$hole, seemingly making light of the situation. While Goku realizes the situation is serious, he isn't displaying that to them with the way he's carrying himself. They don't even realize it's an opportunity for their survival until later. Look we the audience know Goku and his personality. but these other characters don't know him, this is their first introduction to him and it's a bad look

Anthony Cross
>>119571222

He isn't. But he is certainly making it look like he is with the way he's carrying himself.

Anthony Cross
>>119569792

Thank you! it's literally that simple! Goku's carefree and dismissive attitude is a really bad look!

Ichigoat
>>119571173

He was absorbing is BLUE Kaioken Kamehameha. Bergamo reflected his own energy you didn’t refute the argument. Okay so let me ask you this is Bergamo BLUE level? Same level as Goku was beating Top with? And pushed Jiren back with? Well we know he wasn’t fully going all out, he waited to use Kaioken against Top who is much stronger after beating him down in blue alone, and against Bergamo it definitely wasn’t a x20 like he did with Jiren. He used Kaioken to show off but not go all out I mean he would’ve killed the guy

Mike Smith
>>119571173

Again. Goku literally outright said to Zeno he didn’t hold anything back against Bergamo. So you are saying he lied. And wrong. He was not absorbing the blue kamehameha. Bergamo needs to be hit to absorb the power, directly stated. And also grows as he gains the added power, which he did not after goku went blue. Against the kamehameha he outright used a counter energy wave from the start and was not hit by it until he lost the match.

Ichigoat
>>119571173

So then answer the question is Bergamo on Toppo’s or Jiren’s level? He was in fact reflecting the energy back as his power is absorption he never once used his own power it was Goku’s he even stated that in this episode lmao and secondly his power growth, he absorbs power to grow stronger being hit by a ssj doesn’t make him ssj level “the more you hit him, the stronger he is”. During the Tournament of Power, Goku states that he is glad to fight the Trio of Danger again especially Bergamo who he says that last time they fought “he just used Goku's power and hid his own”.

Tobias Bucher

People tend to forget Goku‘s character in OG Dragon Ball. He has always been und stayed that little boy growing up in the wilderness who only wanted to improve his fighting skills by facing the mightiest opponents in the world. Even the fight against Piccolo at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai was only about winning the tournament for him, only rarely acknowledging the seriousness of the situation. If anything, the victories against universal threats in Z have brought out a different, more serious side of Goku. But all the confidence gained by winning against those opponents and the ensuing peace after defeating Majin Buu have made him come back to his original traits that we see portrayed in Super. If it weren’t for Goku‘s confidence and openness, he wouldn’t have been able to train with the deities and reach the heights he has gone to, let alone UI.

Ahenobarbo
>>119610962

Zeno couldn’t keep up dyspo in the tournament and it’s made clear he’s not a fighter so having guards does makes sense

Mike Smith
>>119571173

You really aren’t understanding what my post was all about if you’re asking and saying these things. Yes, I’m aware Bergamo only used gokus energy. The issue is the fact he used ONLY the energy from the ordinary ssj form, and ended up using just that to put up an unreasonable resistance to a blue kk kamehameha, which goku in fact stated he was not holding back with. By all rights he should have been killed with that match up with even accidental effort. HENSE, back to my original statement, scaling in DBS is beyond busted.

mario
>>119612191

english dub is a bit cringe sometimes. I hate the translated version of the kakakakachidaze song.

mario
>>119621551

thing is that 23rd budokai goku was happy and carefree but in no way simple minded. He was and seemed quite matured when compared to earlier. His fight with tien showed that he was very strategic and he was also quite calm and collected for most of the tournament. He even deduced that kami would die if piccolo died. Super goku has regressed. He is as dumb as he was as a kid. Things like not knowing what a kiss is or goddamn counting are stuff that he definitely learned before. Then again... Toriyama has objectively demonstrated he has some issues of his own... countless times. Could be he simply felt nostalgia for kid goku and regressed his character even if it didn't make sense. Id say goku during the tournament of power itself is most similar to his 23rd budokai self. But during filler and calmer moments he is an absolute fool, which wasn't the case for og dragon ball goku. He used to be ignorant not stupid. Super goku is stupid

CYBRLFT
>>119605091

Not ahead of it just a very different plot line. I mean the manga is starkly different from the anime. There’s no kaioken blue and dude… Gohan is the one that takes down Kefla on his own. It’s wild. Jiren isn’t as untouchable and is far more chatty with everyone and more normal in that sense but still stupidly powerful. I highly recommend getting the Shonen Jump app and checking out the super arcs. I’m rereading the Moro arc now. It wastes no time jumping from ToP right into it haha.

Douglas Murray

Day 1 requesting Baris and Madison to call Toppo "Toppo" instead of "Top". It's kind of fun to say his name =))

Ogre328
>>119610962

Not a fighter but also can just unexist things at will is more along what I was thinking.

Dennis Belder
>>119648466

He usually tells us when it is going to be a late one. So I don't know. I do believe there will be an upload today.

Ichigoat
>>119571173

I do get what you’re saying, the problem with that is his power growth doesn’t equate to the level he fights. I’ve explained it in my last comment his power grows when he’s attacked and HE becomes stronger so if Goku hits him in base doesn’t make him base Goku level the more he grows the stronger he is. Goku was holding back because the same Goku beat the brakes off Toppo with just Blue no Kaioken. And same one that pushed Jiren back Bergamo is not on that level the push back was him merely reflecting his own energy back. Yeah exactly the reason he wasn’t killed is because Goku didn’t go all out he doesn’t use Kaioken x10 or 20 till the TOP it’s a Kaioken x2 not at full power otherwise he would’ve obliterated him even Top would have trouble

CYBRLFT
>>119571222

He’s only any sort of villain because the anime wanted to give the western audience their typical good versus evil plot. The manga doesn’t portray any of this. Beerus is the pariah of the 12 universes for a pretty hilarious reason and gets hanged up on in the exhibition for it haha you gotta check that out.

CYBRLFT
>>119576171

I mean if we’re being real, the tournament isn’t Goku’s fault. It all goes back to Champa wanting earth in the first tournament arc of super 👀 if that hadn’t happened, no Zeno appearance and likely bye bye 8 universes hahaha

Douglas Murray
>>119608798

It's actually not completely Champa's fault, Goku was more responsible for it because he's the one who went to Zeno to remind him about the tournament when Zeno had completely forgotten about it.

Byakuran
>>119571173

god energy does not work the same way as ki as we know. You are using scales that dont apply here. Thats why your so confused on the scaling. Watch a video on the scaling and it actual does make a bit of sense in the long run. Also keep in mind from the begining we know that goku's regular forms now have a hint of god ki in them as well

Ahenobarbo
>>119610962

Right but we don’t know how durable he is and the TOP Showed he can be blitzed