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When Life Gives You Tangerines Episode 4 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-05-09 19:48:52
Imported:
2026-06
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gelanG

Towards the beginning, Ae-sun's daughter was sleeping with the grandma because grandma wanted Ae-sun to bear more children at night (preferably sons).

Narawin971

in korea, at that time (and even today in very conservative families) it doesnt matter if you're rich or poor. no matter what, once you marry you go live with your husbands' family (unless you both have your own house of course) and basically live as a maid. in modern days, some women are still expected to quit their ob once they marry and take care of their husband and children. When there's traditional rituals, only the daughter in laws are cooking, cleaning an dmaking the rituals. That is exactly why south korean has a very pratiarcal society. Having a son is seen as something better than having a daughter. That being said, a poor girl marrying to a rich guy is shamed upon because what is accepted is people marryint to those at the "same level". That's why chaebol marrying each other is such a great deal in kdrama. it's diffrent than what you know of aristocracy. I have to add also that Ae-sun's daughter might come off as if she resents her dad because as the man of the house, he's expected to not let his family live in poverty. Even if she grew up with a mother that defied traditional misogyny, she still is, unknowingly, influenced by patriarchal views.

Madi

I feel like they’re not really understanding the subtext with the characters, like they thought gwansik’s mom was being nice when really she’s was always just being backhanded to aesun and didn’t want her to marry gwansik, and yes her stepmoms first impression was bad it’s mostly all just for show and shes been caring for that family for years. Its not like they’re flipping back and forth, i feel like they’ve just been misinterpreting it

Daniela Miño

omgg thank you for another reaction, I loooove hearing your thoughts about some scenes and situations, I just loved the way gwansik told aesun that she could flip the table too and it was a huge thing that he switched to the other table to eat. And we got to know a little bit about geum myeong she is a complicated but also relatable character and I think it's true what Wesley said about how children look at their parents life and if they were happy and try to follow the same pattern or the opposite if they weren't. I can't wait for the next episode that personally I think is wholesome and marks an important highlight in their lives, have a great week!

Jo

can somebody here explain the context behind the indoor plants?

Selena Nguyen

when Geum-myeong said “I had no idea that my impoverished childhood, even that humble childhood, was only possible because they built such a sturdy fortress,” she’s saying that what she thought was a poor childhood was actually the most luxurious life that her parents could have given her. I think the tricycle is symbolic; Ae-sun wants her to ride the tricycle no matter what, so that she could break free from the constraints on women and go out into the world and do whatever she wishes to do, while Ae-sun is still quietly being a maid and gives up on her dreams. Ae-sun also did everything to stop Geum-myeong from becoming a haenyeo (diver), even if that means she disrespects her in-laws and is kicked out of the house, which was a very big deal in that time period. But Geum-myeong didn’t understand all that and only remembered what she couldn’t get, which I think is so common for children to do because we tend to compare our lives to others’ and not think about what our parents went through just to give us the life that they didn’t even give to themselves. And as for why Geum-myeong keeps saying that Ae-sun should’ve married a rich man, perhaps she really thinks her mom could’ve had a better life. But what I’m understanding from that scene is she was mostly teasing Ae-sun, like she was being sarcastic almost. Maybe it sounds bad in American culture to joke about that but in Asian cultures it’s a pretty normal thing to do. At least that’s what I think. Anyway I’m very sure Geum-myeong loves her dad and admires her parents’ relationship a lot.

Hye Ri Ah

I cant wait for next episode . 🥺

gelanG

Toxic mother-in-law and daughter-in-law relationships are quite common in East Asia. I grew up hearing stories from my mom on how her in-laws (including sister-in-law and brother-in-law) mistreated her and how Dad's actions towards Mom hurt her when his mom (Mom's mother-in-law) was involved. There are so many complicated layers to this family dynamic that it is hard to explain everything all at once here. One important thing to notice is that Korean women don't change their surname when they get married, unlike in the US or other countries (including Japan). For example, (I used common last names here since mine stands out), my family consists of Dad (Kim), Mom (Lee), sister (Kim), and me (Kim). When my sister or I do something my dad would do that frustrates Mom, she would go like, "Ugh, the Kim family is driving me nuts again!!" Historically, the surname thing helps identify which family/clan wives came from for family registers when they get married INTO their husband's family in the Joseon Dynasty. At the same time, they are forever an outsider within the family because they have different surnames. I wrote "A Young Married Woman’s Conflicts with Her Mother-in-Law in a South Korean Webtoon: Caught between Traditional Role Expectations and Modern Values" (34 pages without references pages) as one of my graduation papers, which I think might be helpful for both of you to understand more about Korean culture and family dynamics. Since it is not published yet (I am still undergoing grammar edits, and it is taking me forever), I can share a link to a copy of this draft privately (via Patreon message) soon and remove access in a few weeks.

gelanG

Sorry for the very long post!! Here are some references from a Korean drama you reacted to previously to better understand the context. I remember seeing you both being confused in "Queen of Tears" episode 12. Baek Hyun-woo's mom told her first/eldest daughter-in-law: "You are my daughter-in-law. You are not my daughter. A daughter-in-law cannot be a daughter.* I hit Mi-seon (her own daughter, Hyun-woo's sister). But you have your own parents, and I cannot do that to you. We should watch what we say and never get physical if we are in-laws.** So now that you are married, let's avoid seeing each other. You can visit your parents or go on a trip during national holidays if you want. And do not bother getting me birthday gifts.*** It is uncomfortable. If you want, just text me an emoji. […] However, I have one condition. My son has many flaws, and there is nothing I can do. You can try to fix him, but do not return him to me." *Mothers-in-law often say they want a daughter-in-law who takes care of them as a lovely, caring "daughter" would. They do not expect their own sons to fulfill their filial piety duties but want their daughters-in-law to take the role (husbands often pass their filial duties to their wives). Many daughters-in-law resist this, saying a daughter-in-law cannot be a "daughter." **A daughter-in-law is someone else's precious daughter (as a son to the mother-in-law). Therefore, Hyun-woo's mom is basically saying that she will not mistreat her daughter-in-law (although in this case, Hyun-woo's mom hits her own daughter sometimes). Mistreating her (daughter-in-law) would break her parents' hearts—indicating no physical or verbal abuse will be done. ***Daughters-in-law and mothers-in-law not seeing each other frequently helps maintain a good relationship, because mothers-in-law usually like to meddle in their sons' affairs. They often demand to know the passcode to the apartment their son and daughter-in-law live in (not respecting their privacy) and show up without notice in advance, making the daughter-in-law uncomfortable because the mother-in-law typically checks the refrigerator, how clean the house is, if the daughter-in-law has been cooking good meals for her son, etc. Also, another important thing to know about Korean national holidays is that traditional ritual rites (jesa) is a big part of it. Because men carry out lineage and ancestors' ritual rites, wives have to visit their in-laws FIRST (where women cook all day for their husbands' ancestors). I heard cases where a wife was not allowed to visit her parents for years during national holidays because she had to prepare and serve jesa. Therefore, letting her daughter-in-law visit her parents or go on a trip means a lot—the daughter-in-law does not have to cook all day, gets to spend good time with her own natal family, and can be stress-free and relax. Soo-cheol: "Your mother is so laid-back." Hyun-woo's older brother: "Thanks to her, my wife's colleagues all say that she has the best mother-in-law. Since my mom treats her well, my wife tends to turn a blind eye to most things that I do. ======================================== In episode 1, when all the sons-in-law in the family gathered to prepare the memorial service (jesa), I found it refreshing and interesting since it is the same exact thing daughters-in-law experience, but in the opposite gender. They all seem like they have professions—some of them studied chemistry at Harvard, graduated from Parsons School of Design, or are from architect's family for generations—-but are maids to the Hong family. Hyun-woo: "What a waste of talent." Sons-in-law: "This is the Hong family's memorial service. But no one here has that surname. They should prepare their own memorial services. […] I am the fifth only son of the Yu family in Paechon County, 39th generation. What would my mother say if she saw me complete this skewer in ten seconds?" ⇒ As I mentioned above, it is the daughters-in-law who cook all day and prepare jesa when men usually watch TV and drink. Hyun-woo: "Let's not talk about how precious we are to our families." Sons-in-law: "We are the ones who cooked all those [Korean] pancakes. Do you see my hands trembling? But they do not even allow us to attend the service.* These days, I spend a lot of time on internet forums about mothers. I can relate to many of their posts.** I do not remember the last time I visited my parents on the holidays. […] Today is Hyun-woo's father's [60th] birthday. […]"*** *Traditionally, while women cooked all day, they were not allowed to participate in the main ritual/service. It was the men in the family who performed the actual ritual, and women had to be in a different room (if I remember correctly). **There are a lot of internet communities that talk about one's personal issues and seeking advice, or have a discussion/debate. One of the popular topics is a married woman's conflict with her mother-in-law. The son-in-law here is saying that he can relate to these women's experiences. ***I also mentioned above that deciding on visiting whose parents first on national holidays is a big deal. Most of the time, it is the husband's family first or solely. Nowadays, I heard a few cases where they take turns (but some still end up going to the husband's family first despite their prior agreement, which leads to conflict between the married couple). Soo-cheol: "This must be why traditions and the future go well together. This is not old-fashioned. It is quite progressive and nice. It fits the current trend." ⇒Women cooking all day (familial, domestic chores) = tradition, men in the kitchen doing familial, domestic chores with the rise of feminism influence and modern value = future, matches current trend. Putting these two together makes the old-fashioned traditional customs/practices not so bad.

Selena Nguyen

if you think of indoor plants as opposed to outdoor plants, indoor plants are more taken care of and live in a controlled environment, whereas outdoor plants are more exposed to the elements and kind of more "wild." So when Geum-myeong's boyfriend's mom said "Good looks come with a good heart, and indoor plants are not as twisted," she was saying Geum-myeong is not pretty, which must mean she doesn't have a good heart, and she's twisted like outdoor plants, as in uneducated and classless basically. That's why she's so offended when Geum-myeong clapped back "So you're not an indoor plant either?". Hope this helps.

Diana Casillas

I Guess it is about making the house look prettier and theres not much use for them . so basically they want the wifes to be indoor plants and just play the pretty part . And basically geumyeong implied that the mother in law is also an indoor plant for her family in a way.

Diana Casillas

Rewatching this drama again with you and your commentary is so interesting! Thank you ! Also cant wait for Wesley to see more of gwansik and geumyeongs daughter and father relationship. And also for Steph to see ae-sun and geumyeongs mother and daughter relationship To me geumyeong is a complex character so I’m excited to see what you get from her . Also gwansik reminds me a lot of my dad so i really liked to see their scenes Can’t wait for next week!!

Jo

appreciate this

Jo

I can already imagine wesley getting his heart broke

Chels

Hoo-boy I could try to dismantle the layers of Korean culture from an Anthropology perspective to answer your concerns and confusions of social dynamics, but that's like trying to dismantle a sand castle by each grain of salt, so while I'd love to discuss all that, I won't do that to any of us 😂 but the tldr version: Filial piety is a religious necessity in Asian culture. People think it started with Buddhism or Confucius, but both got it from the existing culture and animistic religions that had been around since tribal periods. (In animism, ancestor worship is a huge part of life and if you treat your parents and especially grandparents poorly and don't take care of them, their spirits may condemn you and even curse you) so, the relationship between eldest sons and mothers are heavily tied to their culture and history going back to antiquity, and it also ties to royalty, as the queen dowager was in charge of the care of the emporer (her son) and his wife, the empress. The emporer is believed to be deified, and so the wife had to be pure, high birth (therefore blessed by the heavens) and perfectly follow their tenants of goodness, for lack of a better description (familial piety being one) after that, the wife was in charge of choosing the concubines and just giving birth to a son and then a daughter. If the son rebels, he is betraying his birthright, his family, and his ancestors, and they saw this as him being bewitched by a woman, who was potentially a fox (gumiho/kitsune were said to take the forms of women to bewitch wealthy young men and trick them into betraying their families until they are run dry, then they are left to be homeless and condemned by their ancestors. Or gumiho of K culture could decide to stay with the man for 10 years to become human. Or they would seduce them to eat their liver, where the soul was believed to reside) which is why they called Sae-un(?) A vixen-like woman. They weren't remarking on her appearance or personality, but saying she abducted their oldest son like a gumiho. Anyway, so even today, the only sons or eldest sons are expected to always have a responsibility to their parents and always follow their mother's guidance. They can date whoever, but should only marry the woman their mother chooses or approves of (this is why you still see matchmaking in modern Korea, but it is declining slowly. Also there is a saying in Asia to "ride the white horse but return to your noble steed" or other variations of it, meaning K men come to the states to study and are allowed to date white women, often doing so to see what it's like, but they often have 0 intention of marriage, and if they do, the partner is expected to conform to Korean social structures, move to Korea, ask the moms permission, have a Korean wedding, so on. Not always the case but it is very common. In Japan, the same saying is used for the practice of targeting white people for one night stands to "try it out" done by both men and women. They will also do this as a cheaper means of moving to another country to study at a good school, as overseas studying is very competitive and expensive to achieve, and the best jobs will take that as bonus points. Weirdly, my school is one of the most competitive for business and science in Asia, so it doesn't even have to be ivy league) Anyway, all that to say, that's why Gwansik is expected to choose between his family and his wife. She is not on his level socially and his family didn't approve of her or choose her, so it's not the same as how we in America think of when we see mothers being too obsessed with their sons and being all "you can't have him, he's mine" Also, Korea has a lot of "lovingly battering" so what we often see as mean, to them is just like.. tsundere culture lol. My mom and oma are German, so we have a lot of this too, and I had to learn with my ex that I need to be more honey than sour patch kid with her because she was sensitive. So Gwansik's mom is very much doing that about her son and husband, but ya.. she got a lot meaner to Sae-un(?) Because she ruined her son's future, and she probably is treated worse by her mother-in-law for it. The grandmother views Gwansik's failings as his mother's fault as a mother, so she ended up nicer to Sae-un because she now sees her as the future mother of their heir and her daughter-in-law as the failure. The beans are meant to scare away spirits. Also as a side note to that, funny you mention the salt thing because that is exactly the same concept. The salt over the shoulder comes from Norse and celtic belief that if you accidentally anger a spirit, it will attach itself to you and give you bad luck (luck comes from Norse folklore, curse from Celtic) salt is a pure mineral, so it is believed to cast off spirits with ill intent and so we use salt to consecrate an area for ritual practice, as communing with the spirit realm invites intruder spirits. In East Asian cultures, red beans are the purifying substance. So granny is basically smacking girlies mom with beans to make her keep her distance from her, so that she may birth a son, thinking that the "curse" will prevent it. Step mom thing. In Joseon Korea, which actually wasn't that long before when this show takes place, if one married and had kids, then remarries, it was expected that the new spouse would cast away, if not kill, the previous family (kill mostly for nobles, obviously) so the husband often had to have more than space of living to send the old family. At the time of this show, it was a still-lingering practice or concept, so the step-mom felt it was insulting to have to live and care for her husband's old family. He was, by their culture, disgracing her and disrespecting her by having them in the same household, especially given that Sae-un(omg I can't for the life of me remember if this is right) was such a disrespectful brat to her. I could go on, but that's the gist lol in Anthropology, we learn we have to set aside our ethnocentrism (the urge to get weirded out or upset about things from another culture as "wrong") so I tend to try and understand and see things from the characters or customs that trigger me as a way to have a neutral view, but I totally get the knee-jerk reaction of being angry over how they're acting. From our perspective, it's totally justified, but from a neutral side of it, these people are actually being very kind by letting them marry and letting her and her daughter move in, and also caring for the grandaughter, trying to set her up with what they view as a logical future for her. They are products of an ancient long-standing culture of customs that are hard to let go of easily, and other families in this period (especially in Jeju, which wasn't progressive) wouldn't have let any of this happen. They would cast out the son if he wasn't the only son, and if he was, they would cast out the wife and baby, or force the wife to get rid of the baby in exchange that they help her live in a shack somewhere away from the son or to afford medical care and such. If they were rich enough, they might even try to off the wife and rehome the child. So ya, as mean as they seem, they are actually being so nice by comparison lol but I also feel offended at times by how they talk about them and treat them Hope this helps ease the feels a bit. I think that's why girly puts up with it all and can still smile and joke and poke back, because she also understands that while annoying and unfair, she knows that there is some affection involved and in the end, they are her family now.

Chels

Oh quick addition to my previous comment. The grandmothers take care of the grandchildren, and the grandmother taking the grandchild and saying "rest early" was supposed to be a sweet moment of her being like "fine I accept you. Now go make me a grandson" lol they don't want the daughter in the room with them when they're honeymooning

Chels

Sorry last comment, I just feel this is too much of a breakaway to add to the others. And I'm lazy and don't wanna go and painstakingly add it. But the vibe I'm getting from this show so far that i really like is that it feels to be a clash of the generations. For Ae-sun (or Sae-un? Damn it lol) it's between the old ways of Korea and progressive ideals that were budding with the modernization of other parts of Korea outside of Jeju that her mom was seeing possibilities for her and wanted for her. Then I think it becomes between her and their daughter who lives a modern lifestyle by comparison. I'm really liking this culture clashing of generations we're seeing, because it's probably more jarring and pronounced in Korea where their culture developed at 3x the rate due to American influence. Like I said in the other comment, Joseon wasn't that far off and probably Gwansik's grandmother might have been born on the tail end of that period, and in only 3 generations, all of a sudden, they are in a society even more advanced than America. That must be so wild for them The end of this hurts me 😭 I'm gonna be alone forever cuz nobody is Gwansik~ lol but that was so touching how they protect each other. And I'm also sad for the wife of shit-gil. She is stuck in a bad situation and was trying to make up for her husband's wrongs to Gwansik (I think she paid their rent) and people might be mad she tried to excuse him but a) abuse victims often lie to themselves that things aren't as bad as they are as a coping mechanism, so that's why chica telling her "when somethings not right, it's not right" woke her up to her situation and B) she is part of a culture where her entire reason for living is to support her family and her husband is her family so she feels it was her duty to try and defend his character even as she condemns his actions. The upward mobility in Korea was the bubble period in Busan and Seoul, which were the more progressive places at the time, but the bubble popped and it has left a gaping hole that is a massive gap between the economic classes. Too much growth for some, and not much left for anyone else, leaving schooling as the main method to elevate yourself in society. It's a really sad and tough situation that BTS try to bring attention to and address (buying apartments to rent out at low prices, buying food and donating for the poor, talking about the disparity in their music with songs like bapsae, and bringing attention to Korea to increase the economy value, ect.) I started another show called Friendly Rivalry and another called Weak Hero that both show the desperation kids feel with school and I think it's something we foreigners can only try to grasp at, but probably won't understand just how bad that social disparity is because we don't have Confuciust values that add to the pressure of where you stand. Like, even if the kids do well, they are either held to higher standards, or they are stuck at the same social standing as their parents and only their kids will be respected for their hard work. Imagine being a billionaire and someone thinks of you as a greedy dog because you're parents are "dogs" or poor. (Korean idioms compare the poor to dogs a lot) my Korean friend basically explained it to me that way and I just can't wrap my head around it cuz to me, as a poor individual, just think of rich as rich lol but for them, there is many layers that keep the classes stuck in place, making upward movement very very hard

Jaden

Happy mother day

Jo

Happy Mother's Day to all moms here

Wes And Steph

Congratulations on the paper!!! This was super interesting!! Please email it to wesandstephbiz@gmail.com so we don’t miss it!!

Wes And Steph

SUCH GREAT POINTS!! We truly didn’t understand in Queen of Tears and now it makes so much more sense

Wes And Steph

That background was so interesting!! Thank you!!

Chels

Gah I totally forgot mothers day. Happy belated mothers day Steph 🥰💜

Chels

Happy to share lol sorry it was still so long 😅 I'm still trying to learn how to condense information. But I just love this topic. My east Asian history and culture class (where I learned all this apart from tidbits from my family and friends) was just chock-full of this information and I haven't had an excuse to really talk about the intricacies of Korean culture ☺️ so I might've gotten too excited lol but I highly recommend the book we studied from that goes more into the values such as filial piety, being part of a community and such, but I have that packed away with my other school books, so I'll link it or something once I'm able to dig it out, but I think you guys might really enjoy it for your reactions and understanding little idiosyncrasies. The book also covered Chinese and Japanese cultures because they all have similar values built into their cultures.

Vishwa Joshi

So I am a 21 year old in india and this drama has felt sooo relatable to so many women across my country,i think this is an asian thing,we believe in community and togetherness, many of my family prides themselves in being a big family even at the sake of your freedom and sometimes happiness,nuclear family has been a new thing that mostly happened in my parent's generation. So things are much more family oriented in general,then there is the misogyny problem,we now have a name for it but it's just that previous generation's husbands were either too tramoutised , hot headed or emotionless and repressed and they didn't love their wives and never had any hand in actually raising the children more than proving a roof and food. So those wive's whole world and happiness stemmed from thier children, especially boys,and therefore they grow up to be resentful and controlling mother in laws who can't let thier child go and feel weirdly jealous of the daughter in law, and this cycle repeats as we see in the case of grandma and gwan shik's mom. Also you talked about similar things,but that happened in your grandparents' generation.but most asian countries or atleast the one's under some kind of colonialism usually catch up to US in terms of most things 1 or 2 generation's later like the music popular in the us in 80's would be the 90's trend in these countries,so you have to take in account that gap left. Also this is more in the desi or the indian subcontinent context but arranged marrigies were the norm. So most times women didn't have a man like gwan shik who loved them but they had a mother who they saw sacrificing so much for them so the men don't side with the new wife and they are regarded as workers before wives. this is long but i wanted to say this.hehe

shayna

I am not mentally or emotionally prepared for tonight's episode

Charm3dOn3

Regarding the understanding and relatability of particular characters intention, I think a lot of it comes down to your proximity to poverty. The show depicts poverty to an extent that many people in 1st world countries are not used to or have never experienced. Coming from a 3rd world country that's not Asian myself, I didn't really have an issue understanding the character's motivations. A-sun's siblings' mom kicked her out as a matter of not having enough money, it sounds cruel but she wanted to ensure that her own child had enough to be taken care. Similarly, women weren't expected to have high achieving jobs during this time, Gwan-sik's mother never thought there relationship would ever turn serious that's why she didnt mind it. I think you missed when the mother said people don't fall in love with beggars, which is what she considered Ae-sun as early as the 2nd episode. They knew Ae-sun's life was going nowhere due to her financial circumstances, so they didnt want their son/grandson to be dragged down by it, which in and of itself is very relatable, because every parent wants the best for their child, and they know Gwan-sik and Ae-sun will live a tough life together. That's also why they want to teach the granddaughter to dive from an early age, Ae-sun may have been academically gifted but it doesn't amount for much at the time and the job prospects available to her, so they want the granddaughter to have a useful skill to be of benefit to her future husband. Everything is considered in regards to how you can contribute financially to your family/future family because everyone has experienced extreme poverty.

Lizeth Quispe

you found weird the attitude of the mother making his son choose btw her and his wife but tbh that is even something i see in actual couples nowadays in latinoamerica bc im from there, like mothers expect their kids to choose them idk if its bc we have a very family oriented culture but somtimes its difficult to face that dynamic