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The West Wing, Season 4, Episode 10 (Patreon)

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2024-03-12 16:51:59
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2026-06
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Content

Arctic Radar

Comments

Michelle Taylor

You're absolutely right about next week's episode being the Christmas show. When I think about it compared to other West Wing Christmas episodes, I'm a bit torn. On one hand, I don't find it as notable, but on the other hand, I actually think it's even better in some ways. Just wanted to say thanks for dropping the latest West Wing reaction at just the right time. This show is my go-to for comfort and safety. I really needed it today because, well, it's voting day here in Georgia. I woke up feeling pretty bleh and not wanting to deal with anyone, but watching the show reminded me that voting is not just a right, it's a responsibility. Time to get out there and do my civic duty!

Roland Cooke

I agree with you, surely Sam's Lakers poster counts as "bringing your hobbies into work" ?

Roland Cooke

Sorkin sorta confirmed that the initial "writer-off" between Toby and Will was based on real writery argument(s) he'd been in. 🙂

Weird Magic

I like this one a lot more than most raters - the pacing, the A/B/C plots, the writing and cinematography in the Toby/Will scene at the end, the comedy with the parking tickets etc - it all just worked for me on a lot of levels. As Michelle noted - this episode aired at T-giving, and they only had one new episode in December so the next one is the Xmas one. I think I'll watch that now :) Originally airing on November 27, 2002, 'Arctic Radar' is Episode 10 of Season 4 of The West Wing. It is the 76th episode overall and has an IMDB rating of 7.8, placing it as the #16 ranked episode of this season and #68 out of all the episodes shown so far. P.S. THANK YOU KEVIN AND JOE for stating what I always thought throughout the run of the show, from beginning to end. Josh and Donna are more like brother/sister than romantic. It should be noted however - that the three of us were/are in the very minute minority when it comes to that topic - both back then and today. (I'm talking about what the fandom wanted, not what may or may not happen on the show so hopefully not taken as spoilers in either direction)

Balazs Foldes

I pretty much really like most of this episode. As you said, the Leo-President chat feels so much like the 'Let Bartlet Be Bartlet' thing. That episode was focused more on that, and had that genius happiness-dispair-hope curve to it (President starting the episode feeling positive, then lots of day-to-day things happening, and with each issue, they felt more and more lost in a swamp, drowning - until Leo has the Talk with Bartler, pumping all of them up for a fight). This episode focuses much less on this specific issue of things being too sticky for the Oval. I mean, it comes up, but there are many other things happening. So, the chat hits you less hard, but it still feels like a take-off. Good. I also love the Will-Toby thing. The way Toby gives his monologue, in the low voice, a little desperate, a little sad. Such a great moment. In the dark, frustrated the way only Toby can be. Beautiful thing. The Janice thing... you are right. It feels pretty wrong. I think you got the only difference between being a sports fan and being a star trek fan: being a sports fan was an accepted, maybe even socially expected thing, while nerdyness was a little bit... nerdy at that time. IIRC, this storyline also probably comes as a result of Sorkin's unfortunate interaction with his own (or the show's) internet fanbase, and his fights with some of the fans over the sites. (You will certainly remember the Lemon-Lyman.Com debacle). Sorkin tries to explain his experience further, but it is a bit of a misplaced trauma. Anyway, the 'work hard, we will make one [Star Trek holiday]' was a nice touch in the end.

Balazs Foldes
>>132167468

I have also been with you on the Donna/Josh thing. But indeed a lot of people wanted them to be coupled, whatever.

Balazs Foldes
>>132163647

I'm also going through some existential crisis tonight (turning 45 tomorrow, some pretty ambiguous feelings about it), and was very happy about the opportunity to watch this reaction. Maybe just a bit of distraction and pleasure, maybe just a dose of nostaligia bringing the youthul days back...

Pam Nail

- I like a lot about this episode, especially the Toby and Will stuff. That last scene is an all-timer. and I love how vulnerable Toby is because he knows Will gets it. The Star Trek thing bugs me and the Vicky Hilton plot would work more for me if we heard from *any* of the women on this show. The men keep talking about the women in their lives complaining about it, and we don't hear from any of them (Amy barely and Donna almost). I like the points Bartlet made at the end, but I'd like them much more if a woman had made them. - I had completely forgotten about the UN parking situation, which is one of my favorite funny moments. And speaking as a New Yorker, that is a REAL THING. The UN people complain about it all the time, and there was even a time where someone huffily suggested that they move the UN to another city. Prompting then-mayor Giuliani to say fine, go ahead ... that's prime real estate and the city would make a ton of money selling it to literally anyone else. - [rot13 for spoilers] Xvaq bs ohzzrq nobhg gur nggvghqr er Wbfu naq Qbaan. V'z rira fhecevfrq gung vg gbbx guvf ybat sbe gurz gb abgvpr. V trg gur erfreingvbaf naq gur cbjre qlanzvp vf zber bs n qrny gurfr qnlf guna vg jnf gjragl lrnef ntb. Naq gung qlanzvp cebonoyl srryf zber cebabhaprq va guvf rcvfbqr jvgu gur Ivpxl Uvygba fvghngvba. Ohg V qba'g trg gur "oebgure-fvfgre" guvat, rfcrpvnyyl jura snaf jrer fhcre vagb gurz nf n ebznagvp guvat sebz gur irel svefg frnfba (fb zhpu fb gung Fbexva sryg xvaq bs cerffherq gb znxr vg n Guvat, naq V'z snveyl fher vg'f ng yrnfg bar ernfba Znaql qvqa'g jbex bhg). V'z phevbhf ubj gurl'yy srry jura vg orpbzrf rira zber boivbhf sebz gur raq bs frnfba svir bajneq. Orpnhfr bar bs gur guvatf V ybir zbfg nobhg gung cybg jnf ubj gur jevgref terj obgu bs gubfr punenpgref (rfcrpvnyyl Qbaan) vaqrcraqrag sebz rnpu bgure, gb chg gurz ba zhpu zber rdhny sbbgvat jura gung eryngvbafuvc svanyyl punatrq.

Pam Nail

OH! And I can't believe I forgot this! (sorry, rot13 again for spoilers) V jnf fb unccl Wbr naq Xriva unq gur rknpg erfcbafr V guvax Fbexva jnagrq jura PW oevrsyl zragvbarq Qnaal Pbapnaaba! V ubcr gurl erzrzore gung zbzrag arkg jrrx jura gurl frr uvz ntnva!

Skinny_Obelix

small fact, the actress who tells the president he had a call from the UN secretary general is Renée Estevez, daughter of Martin Sheen.

Aude M

Arctic Radar is one of my favorite episodes this season. A lot to do with the last scene, so well-played, well-directed, the lighting, the words...So good. For next episode, could you try not to read the opening credits ? It spoils some interesting guests. Next episode being also really great, btw.

Taylor

The Star Trek thing has always driven me nuts. It’s something Sorkin used to do that really irritated me. When there were certain things he didn’t like, he would write things into the show almost in a way to give himself the last word. Internet commenters were still new, and he couldn’t stand a lot of them, so we get the Lemon-Lymon episode calling people on the internet crazy. He was told there were times when he was being misogynistic, so we got the Ainsley “dog on a chain” argument where Sam legitimately makes someone uncomfortable but comes out on top anyway. Sorkin doesn’t like people who are “overly” fanatical about nerdy things, so that woman is a fetishist. He’s a great writer, but he can tend to skew in ways where he goes off the deep end to try and make himself the one with the correct opinion by portraying his detractors as “crazy” characters.

Taylor
>>132178816

And this isn’t to say he isn’t a brilliant writer. He’s great, and I adore this show. It’s just something about his writing that has always stood out to me.

D Gyre

Yeah I feel like the Star Trek thing is Sorkin's own baises showing through. Wearing a Star Trek pin would reduce confidence for people walking through? Even at this time I think that's a pretty bad take. Then the entire speech? Like Josh can't nerd out to the same degree about Baseball stats? Or basketball? Didn't we have an intro a few episodes ago talking about walking a batter? Deep in the weeds of those rules? But no, she's one of the "special people" because she likes star trek. But at least at this point I think Sorkin felt sports was an 'acceptable' hobby while most Star Trek fans must be those obsessive types he describes. At this point in the show I'm going to admit something, I don't actually like Josh that much. I'm not saying I would want him to be different, you need a variety of characters and he's not a bad character or inconsistent, but I don't like him. Toby is my #1 guy, CJ is outstanding, and of course we all love Leo and the President. Sam is mostly likeable. But of that main cast...Josh is definitely the bottom for me, and its scenes like this one. On a positive note, I do very much like the exchange with Josh and Fitzwallace, especially "that's how it's supposed to work." Fitzwallace knows that sometimes, his perspective and that of the military is going to be wrong, and needs civilian oversight. And he isn't likely to recognize those situations, because his life has been the military. So he wants Josh to do what he needs to for that civilian oversight, and let the people with that responsibility, SecDef, the president, hash that out and make the decision. Its a great mindset for military leadership to have.

D Gyre
>>132166086

That scene with Josh is probably one of my least favorite in the show.

Michelle Taylor
>>132163647

Balazs Foldes Happy 45th birthday! What a fantastic age to be. You've accumulated so much wisdom and experience over the years, which will only serve you well in the exciting years to come. Enjoy every moment of your special day!

Roland Cooke
>>132174901

On your rot13 stuff: I like your thinking. Some of that is possibly the completion of the seven seasons / passage of time.

Weird Magic
>>132166086

It's not a double standard - it's the Lakers #Showtime!!!! When I worked at Microsoft I thought seriously about suggesting a "sarcasm font" for Office - never got around to doing it but wouldn't it be nice to show you are being sarcastic just by using a specific font? :)

Weird Magic
>>132174901

V qvq jngpu gur arkg rcvfbqr naq vg vf zber cerinyrag gurer guna va guvf rcvfbqr. V ybirq W&X'f ernpgvba orpnhfr vg zngpurq zvar rknpgyl. Gueh zl 10+ frevrf erjngpurf nf jryy nf erpragyl qvfpbirevat naq yvfgravat gb Gur Jrfg Jvat Jrrxyl cbqpnfg abg bar gvzr unir V rire gubhtug gurl fubhyq or gbtrgure. Abg rira nsgre vg unccrarq. V unqa'g gubhtug bs vg nf oebgure/fvfgre hagvy W&X fnvq vg ohg gung vf rknpgyl ubj V creprvirq vg gbb. Sbe zr gurve eryngvbafuvc jbexrq orpnhfr vg jnf fbzrbar gelvat gb fubj gurve obff ubj vaqvfcrafnoyr fur jnf naq gur obff arire ernyvmvat fur jnf hagvy fur jnf tbar. V xabj Wnary Znybarl fnvq sebz gur svefg fprar bs ure svefg rcvfbqr fur jnf cynlvat vg nf vs Qbaan jnf znqyl va ybir jvgu Wbfu - ohg vg arire uvg sbe zr, naq V nz n fhpxre sbe pbaarpgvat rzbgvbnayyl va eryngvbafuvcf. Vs lbh'ir frra Grq Ynffb, vg'f gur fnzr jnl V fnj Grq naq Erorppn. Zl haqrefgnaqvat jvgu Znaql vf gung vf jung fur jnf vagraqrq sbe, ohg gung gurer jnf zber purzvfgel orgjrra Qbaan naq Wbfu guna Znaql naq Wbfu (juvpu V nterr jvgu, ohg abg ebznagvp purzvfgel). Ure punenpgre va trareny qvqa'g svg/jbex fb jvgu abar bs vg jbexvat, fur jnf na rnfl (lrg bqqyl rkrphgrq) bhg.

Weird Magic
>>132177311

If I ever get cast as a leading role in a TV series I'm going to make sure one of my kids is in it and only has lines that say things like "Thank you Mr President" :)

Pam Nail
>>132174901

V srry fb qvssreragyl nobhg guvf, ohg V qba'g ernyyl jnag gb nethr be vainyvqngr nalbar'f cbvag bs ivrj. V thrff zl znva guvat vf gung V qba'g jnag Wbr naq Xriva gb ungr vg naq ubyq vg ntnvafg gur fubj jura vg fgnegf orpbzvat zber cebabhaprq naq gura npghnyyl unccraf gbjneq gur raq bs gur frevrf.

Devon Cooper

So, not every part of this episode hits all the way home. However, the last scene with Toby and Will is one of my favorites of the whole damn show. Acted and written so damn well. Oh and as a longtime avid Star Trek fan, I think the last scene with Josh and Janice was fine! And ended well. I like to see the good of these fan favorite scenes😉. Great reaction as always guys!! Appreciate this journey with you both!

Jeff

As has been said, next week is the Christmas episode, and when I first watched it two decades ago I wasn't a fan. But now, being twenty years older and more experienced, I find it incredibly moving and memorable. I'm looking forward to J & K's reactions. And, if I'm counting right, next week's episode is the halfway point of the entire series.

Jeff
>>132174901

V qba'g guvax V jbhyq'ir yvxrq n Wbfu naq Qbaan ebznapr ng guvf cbvag va gur frevrf, ohg V jnf svar jvgu vg jura vg npghnyyl unccrarq. N ybg unccraf bire gur arkg guerr lrnef, fb V srry yvxr vg jnf n angheny cebterffvba.

JVTrickypants
>>132178816

Agree completely, he does sometimes use a straw man as an easy pitch to hit. I do believe he has kind of apologized for this because it was a reaction to to the "Lord of the Flies"-like feeling of the internet at the time and expanding convention scenes. Writers would usually never directly hear what people were saying about their shows before the internet, just what the ratings were or what critics would write. He has been involved in tons of things about the show, each time expressing he is basically shocked/honored that people still even remember the show, much less discuss it, listen to podcasts, buy tickets to live version of the podcast, happily pay a monthly fee to watch other people reacting to the show for the first time (lol), etc.

Youtalkingtome
>>132163647

Michelle, thank you for doing your civic duty! Balazs you have a Happy Birthday!! I'm glad that we could bring the both of you some comfort and joy. We look forward to each and every week with you guys!

Youtalkingtome
>>132166086

Lmao I agree with the sarcasm sentiment. Yeah, that was crazy to me that she couldn't wear the damn pin but sports are just fine.

Youtalkingtome
>>132167743

Even Sorkin isn't right all the time lmao. I see nothing wrong with letting people enjoy things. Sports, Star Trek, West Wing, whatever! As long as people are being professional and not hurting anyone, what's the big deal?

Youtalkingtome
>>132174901

I agree also with the Vicky Hilton ending with Bartlett. I'm glad that he said it and it does ring true. That coming from a woman would have been a really powerful moment

Youtalkingtome
>>132178816

Yes. That was very well said and I get where he is coming from. So many fanbases can be toxic. We just lived through the release the Snyder cut phenomenon. However, most fans just wanna enjoy what they love and talk about it in their free time, just like you and me! Love Sorkin but I think he messed up here.

Youtalkingtome
>>132179369

Josh does have amazing moments on this show but he can be very smug. I can easily see how he rubs you the wrong way. I still like his character but I agree that he was annoying me in this episode.

Youtalkingtome
>>132191548

We appreciate you Devon! We're not very knowledgeable about Star Trek, seen a handful of movies. Which shows/movies are your favorite?

Youtalkingtome
>>132193147

Nobody does Christmas like the West Wing. Something really nice about a Christmas episode being the half way point.

Baeziii

The next episode, the Christmas episode, is one of my all-time favorites. It's incredibly moving and is one of the only episodes that can keep up with Noel.

Yannick Denis-Trudel

Even though there's a tradition of immense episodes for X-Mas in The West Wing (S1 In Excelsis Deo, S2 Noël, S3 Bartlet for America), there's still some great Thanksgiving moments (S2 Shibboleth, S3 The Indians in the Lobby) marking that holiday as well.

Katie

So for the star trek thing didn't age well of course, but I remember an interview or something where it wasn't actually about star trek but used star trek as an analogy for West Wing fans getting a bit much for him, it was his way of saying it's ok to enjoy a show but it is just a show. Again I still think it hasn't aged well, but as a Star Trek fan I know it wasn't against Star Trek specifically from what I understand.

Youtalkingtome
>>132892478

That makes sense. I know there can be toxic fans in any genre. I just think he coulda handled it in a different way. Totally get what he was saying though.