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The West Wing, Season 4, Episode 20 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-05-20 22:20:24
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2026-06
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Content

Evidence of Things Not Seen

Comments

Taylor

Even though it isn’t my number one favorite episode of the series, I feel like this is the one I come back to the most. Probably because I love rewatching the story arc for the end of season 4 and this is where I feel it begins. I also CANNOT wait for next week’s cold open.

Pam Nail

- You can stand an egg on its end any old time, as long as it has the right shape and weight balance. It has nothing to do with the equinox. (And yes, a felt table surely helped.) - I have not been wild about Charlie's behavior to Zoey this season, but this episode's interaction was a step in the right direction. He has every right not to like Jean Paul, but no right to tell Zoey what to do and not do. - I really like this episode -- it's my #39 for the whole series. The next three episodes are all in my top ten. - (rot13 for spoilers) Ubyl zbyrl, urer jr tb jvgu gur ynfg guerr rcvfbqrf. Gurl'er nobhg gb svaq bhg jul gurer ner mreb Wrna Cnhy qrsraqref. Vg znxrf zr fb fnq gb urne Mbrl gnyx nobhg arrqvat n oernx, xabjvat jung fur'f nobhg gb or chg guebhtu.

Roland Cooke

Fiction versus real life obviously, but Bartlet declassifying things on a whim.....

Cristy

RIP Matthew Perry. I do like seeing him in a dramatic setting, he was such a well rounded actor. Ainsley is my most favourite minor character in the West Wing's run but if anyone is going to take her place since she went off to 'Mandyville' I don't mind it being Matthew Perry lol. I completely agree with your assessment that s2 is the best season so far followed by s4. Next episode is in my top ten of all time so I'm looking forward to your reaction. Thank you, as always!

Jeff
>>138559488

Hahaha... "Mandyville" sounds like a failed "West Wing" spinoff that was cancelled after three episodes.

trenton gragg

The silo story Will is describing is similar to the opening scene of Wargames. The two actors in the opening scene were John Spencer and Michael Madsen.

Kelsey Krehbiel

Josh Malina is a pro poker player in real life, which obviously his good friend Aaron had in mind when writing this. In the corresponding episode of the podcast, he says that in order to get a perfectly shuffled deck, you need to shuffle 7 times. I’ve shuffled 7 times ever since! 😂

Jeff

Can you please introduce every 'West Wing' reaction with Kevin's Jean-Paul impersonation? Thank you. I really love this episode, especially with the overarching themes of faith and trust. So much happens in such a short period of time, yet so much is revealed about the characters. The story that Will tells about the two missile silo operators is nearly the same scene that opens the movie "War Games." And one of the actors in that scene was John Spencer (Leo). Joe, have you read the book "Fail Safe"? I revisited it again recently and it still holds up after all these decades. Next week's episode is one of my top 5 of the series. I know you both are always very good about paying attention to all the little details in Sorkin's scripts, but the next episode will require you to be especially focused on names and events. For me, at least, when I first saw it I was a little lost, and only got it on repeated viewings. I will say that these final three Sorkin episodes qualify as some of the most unpredictable of any tv series I've seen.

Martin Nicholls

This is definitely an episode that is quite memorable. A few episodes ago you were talking about Studio 60 and knowing that Matt Perry is in this episode it was kinda amusing. Absolutely no major stories for that character, sure ;)

Joy M

Kevin’s Jean-Paul impression made my day.

JVTrickypants

Sorkin said letting Emily Procter go from the show was his biggest mistake on the show. He said he was worried about having too many mouths to feed, but he talked about how much he regretted it on the podcast.

JVTrickypants

Josh Malina is a bog poker player. He won several times on this Celebrity Poker show they had on Bravo when the poker on tv craze was at its height.

JVTrickypants

I always find it hysterical that Will is defending guys who didn’t launch the missiles because it was a false alarm….which is the exact situation that happens at the beginning of War Games and John Spencer was one of the guys who wouldn’t turn his key lol.

JVTrickypants

There are actors who can handle Sorkin’s dialogue and those who can’t, which is why he tended to use a lot of the same people early in his career. Matthew Perry definitely kind of surprised how well he did the first time I saw this episode.

Youtalkingtome
>>138553580

Referring to this week, I think this is almost perfect. It has everything the show is known for and what we want. Drama, comedy, guest stars, Bartlett absolutely crushing it. I can't wait to rewatch this one.

Youtalkingtome
>>138563484

Malina is the man! I love his character more and more each week. I love a good deli. That made me so hungry

Youtalkingtome
>>138565826

His JP impersionation cracks me up so hard. I have not read the book! I've been meaning to. I just love the movie

Martin Nicholls
>>138566301

IMO it says a lot about his acting that I've only ever seen him in this, Studio 60 and The Whole Nine Yards and I rate him as an actor. It's a shame really that he never got to explore more big nameplate project dramatic side of acting than he did - maybe it was one of the things that weighed on him that he was stuck on the more comedic side. I mean I don't know that, but maybe - never helped Philip Seymour Hoffman, another chum of Sorkin's, but then everybody is different.

Ingemar Svensson
>>138557343

One trick is to spill some salt on the table, that helps you stand an egg on end at almost any surface.

trenton gragg
>>138562448

WarGames is a great 80’s Cold War era movie. Starring Matthew Broderick, Ally Sheedy, Dadney Coleman (RIP) and Barry Corbin. Released 40 years ago this summer.

Joy M
>>138566705

It reminds me of Lorelei Gilmore’s impressions of the French on Gilmore Girls

Balazs Foldes

So, there is this lovely, hidden sorkinism in the script here. Around the poker table, Josh mentions: 'I miss Ainsley. That's who the Counsel's office should get to fill that position, another Ainsley. A SEXY CONSCERVATIVE with first-rate law credentials and a STRANGE NAME.' So, it was totally foreshadowed that the new counscl should be a conservative. But, when Josh repeats the story to Joe, he just says 'the person who created the job opening, her name was Ainsley Hayes, and she was, uh, a very attractive woman, and I was saying that we needed to find another ATTRACTIVE woman with an UNUSUAL NAME, and, here you're, a man and your name is Joe.' So, when Josh re-iterates his point, he mentions two of the three specification from the original list: sexy and unusual named... but forgots to bring up the conservative part. :) I think it's such a Sorking thing to do. Foreshadow something in the middle of a random barter, repeat it, play with it, while totally diverting the audience attention at the same time that something was foreshadowed. He loves playing with us. :) Interesting thing, I never thought of Matt Perry as being so outstandingly sexy a man. I mean, sure, he can be handsome. But, maybe only because of the role of Chandler, I just never thought of him as being that attractive type. In this show, he's definitely made out to be so. Rest In Peace, sir.

Alex Lee

Interesting fact - At the end of the episode, the assistant (Nancy) that tells the President that Chigoran is on the phone, is Renee Estevez, Martin Sheen's daughter. She was in quite a few episodes.

Weird Magic
>>138565826

For those familiar with Honest Trailers on youtube, they always ask the announcer to say something in his "announcer voice". I think we need to come up with a phrase for Kevin to say in French - any suggestions? :)

Weird Magic

Was surprised that this wasn't mentioned already above, but to me the most unusual/surprising part about Matthew Perry on here was that this wasn't after Friends was done. The Friends finale aired on May 6, 2004, a full year AFTER he appeared in this episode. Originally airing on April 23, 2003, 'Evidence of Things Not Seen' is Episode 20 of Season 4 of The West Wing. It is the 86th episode overall and has an IMDB rating of 8.2, placing it as the #8 ranked episode of this season and #40 out of all the episodes shown so far.

Weird Magic

Also - someone correct me if I'm wrong - but from my memory of Sorkin on The West Wing Weekly Podcast, he said at this point in the show he had not planned on leaving - that it was announced to the cast with 2 episodes left? I might be wrong on the timing, but it was a VERY late decision for both him and Tommy Schlamme to leave after four seasons.

Joy M

I just read that Allison Janney will be on the second season of The Diplomat on Netflix.

Weird Magic
>>138658627

Debora Cahn is the showrunner - she was a Producer on West Wing seasons 6 and 7. Also produced 184 episodes of Grey's Anatomy

Weird Magic
>>138629313

Speaking from the memory of the podcast and adjusting slightly for my take. Sorkin is obviously one of the best at crafting the narrative, but I'm guessing he's not the best employee. :) He was always pushing things, from budget to timeline (many times scripts were submitted the week of shooting) etc. NBC finally put their foot down on the budget, Sorkin felt creatively stifled and decided to quit. Tommy Schlamme decided at that time he didn't want to do it without Sorkin, so he left at the same time. I also think they were getting burned out but I haven't heard them admit that.

shawn Johnson

I agree with the consensus on the end of this season. Amazing work by Sorkin.

Calina Crandall

Fun fact. The 3 of clubs was thrown by Toby into the can as an homage. In the magic/illusion world the 3 of clubs has a sacred history. Penn from Penn and Teller talks about it all the time. And most times when magicians are performing for the first time in front of a crowd it's a little nudge to all the magic practitioners watching. That and the Ace of Spades jumping out of a shoe line states that Toby is very much a magic fan. He chose the 3 of clubs for a reason. A tip of the hat if you will.

Mithroch

I didn't have an appreciation for Matthew Perry until Studio 60. He was my favorite part of that show. Later on he had a show I really liked called Go On... where he played a radio sports commentator dealing with the loss of his wife in a support group. Technically a sitcom... it had a lot of great drama. Sadly it only lasted a season.