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The West Wing, Season 6, Episode 2 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-11-25 22:27:31
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

The Birnam Wood

Files

Previews only

WW6 2

Comments

Jake Elliott

Always felt like this is what people hoped would come out of the 2000 Camp David Summit.

Youtalkingtome
>>156403703

Certainly. It's a great example from The West Wing of "wouldn't it be great if the people running the world did their best?"

Taylor

I said last week that I usually skip the previous episode as well as this one. It’s because it’s so hard for me to watch Jed and Leo at odds so severely while knowing what’s coming. Most heart attacks portrayed on screen are just people clutching their chest or their arm and the scene switching quickly. This is the absolute most realistic portrayal I’ve seen on screen of just how violent and terrifying a heart attack can actually be. It’s horrific to watch. It also absolutely KILLS me to watch this knowing that John Spencer died of a heart attack in real life. It’s so difficult to have that knowledge while watching that scene.

Pam Nail

- There is SO MUCH I CAN'T SAY! And I can't even say WHY I can't say! (*screams in rot13*) I probably don't need to tell y'all this, but DON'T LOOK ANYTHING UP. - Okay, I will say one thing. Leo and Abbey had a conversation last season (in 'No Exit') about her taking medication and the toll White House jobs take on the body. She specifically asks him when was the last time he had a cardiogram. So at least one of the writers has had this in mind as a possibility for a while. - Is that the wildest cut to the closing credits ever or what?! Right up there with '18th and Potomac' (where Mrs. Landingham dies). - Mary McCormack was heavily pregnant when these episodes were shot, which is why whenever you see her not in a close up she's parked behind a table or a binder. - This is the last episode Terry O'Quinn appears as the COTJC. He was halfway out the door to Hawaii to go be on a little show called 'Lost.' - My favorite part of this episode is the respective religious observances. Whenever Alex Graves directs an episode, you can count on something visually stunning.

Pam Nail
>>156405418

It's such an incredible piece of physical acting. And yes, hard to watch knowing what eventually happened to John Spencer.

The Inedible Mattman!

This episode, besides being fantastic in almost every way, is a great representation of the differences between Sorkin and his successors. This is a VERY un-Sorkin moment.

Emma Samuel

A hard episode but one I've always liked. The message I always took away from it is that it's a far more complex, more nuanced subject than a lot of people want you to believe, especially now, and that without a bunch of phds in the geography and history and faiths, plus diplomatic skills that make the NI peace process look like a cake walk, no ordinary person has an easy solution or a full understanding of the situation. And as someone who works in an office where there is a LOT of opposition on this subject, that's been surprisingly helpful to cool things down. (And boy can John Spencer act.)

Cosmic Slice

Holding in spoilers for this show is so incredibly difficult! There are episodes of this show that are so hard to watch now, knowing what happens on and off the show. I like how balanced the conversations were in regards to the conflict without being too pie in the sky about it. If only we could all talk about things like this reasonably.

Martin Nicholls

Mildly offended that the President's thoracic surgeon wife didn't spot potential warning signs that Leo might be having a heart attack - he was fairly significantly symptomatic for an extended period of time, including, IMO, at least the previous episode. It's rare to get that sort of warning in real life and it's sad I guess that she didn't spot that he might be having problems. By the way, there's a discussion Leo and Abbey have during the lockdown, which is a big hint that they'd been planning this for a while, about stress and damage to the heart and Abbey asks him what he's doing to reduce his stress - it really sticks out when you've seen the show before. Graphic is the right word for it, whilst I have never witnessed anybody have a heart attack, his acting performance in that moment is very believable in expressing how painful it is. Of course this episode now is all that much darker and sadder because of how the actor ultimately died. He's a great character, and that's sad enough, but for a clearly great and seemingly well loved actor to die of a heart attack puts a scene like that on another level, and I imagine makes it hard to watch for many. Also yeah, as you wished for, they didn't solve the problem - they just agreed on some steps. Maybe it could have led to it over the course of decades, but ultimately not a lot of change - but then a lot of that conflict is about declaring victory in defeat, isn't it? You guys have some interesting episodes coming up, fascinated to see what you make of them.

Curtis Higareda

Watching these episodes and with you guys almost makes it feel like I'm watching them again for the first time. Glad you don't get any spoilers put in the comments and glad you have the self restraint to not do too much searching on your own...I have major issues with doing that.. because there's a lot of surprises coming up over the next couple seasons!

Skinny_Obelix

When you look back you see the signs of Leo's health declining. I feel like this went parallel to John Spencer's health in real life so they had to write a way to care for his real health outside the show.

Youtalkingtome
>>156412244

Really (except for a few people on YouTube), everyone has been really great about spoilers. We are so thankful for that!

Youtalkingtome
>>156411909

We look forward to these upcoming episodes! You bring up a great point: Abby not seeing any signs of cardiac (that's what we assume, anyway) trouble with Leo.

Heather

“The friend says, ‘yeah, but I’ve been down here before, and I know the way out…’”

Youtalkingtome
>>156411741

That was our takeaway as well. It's a tough balance between "here is how we can solve all the world's unsolvable problems" and respecting the incredibly difficulty of some of the ugly realities of the world.

MrRuss50

Over 2 years in filming these WW reactions and you have somehow managed to avoid spoilers on the biggest plot lines this show has to offer. Bravo gentleman its gonna be a lot of good content coming our way these next 40 episodes or so :) Cant wait!

Ingemar Svensson

In many ways it's unrealistic that The West Wing has had most of the same cast for the whole run. In real life that would never happen. White house staffers burn out so quickly that you'd never see anyone almost stay with an administration for 8 years let alone 4. Obama for example had 5 chiefs of staff and 7 communications directors during his 8 years. Only 2 west wing staffers seem to have been with him the whole run in the same role at least. One senior advisor and also his science advisor.

Cosmic Slice
>>156411741

It's so hard! Almost as hard as not just continuing to watch between reactions, lol

dys

Living in Brooklyn, no there is not a lot of clay pigeon shooting in Brooklyn. Though that scene is very real to me because I used to work for a company that merged with an Israeli company, and we'd do these yearly company retreats to a resort that had a shooting range, that looked a lot like whatever location they used to depict Camp David here, and of course all the Israelis were great shots. I'm a decent shot at fixed targets from my time on the rifle range in boy scouts (and as a camp counselor for a couple summers) but have never been much good at skeet shooting. Also reminds me of the first time we did that retreat, driving back to NYC from that resort several hours west of the city and seeing my Israeli colleagues in awe at that first glimpse of the NYC skyline. The whole Israel-Palestine situation is impossible to have a good-faith discussion about right now. It feels like your patreon community is in general agreement about 95% of the politics discussed on or raised by this show, from healthcare to social security to school vouchers to Donald Trump being the fucking worst, but this one issue is so toxic in the US you're absolutely right to not start a discussion on it even with how present it is in these episodes. Leo... man I have no words.

dys
>>156424520

That's something I noticed too, realistically they would have been through like 6 or 7 CJs at this point. Especially because I was first watching this season around the time Sean Spicer got the boot. Obviously for storytelling reasons it's better to have main characters who stick around, and the arcs some of these characters go through over the remainder of the show are so damn satisfying.

Youtalkingtome
>>156424520

I know that it might not be the most realistic but it's one of my favorite aspects. I love popping in each week and being invested in every characters story

dys
>>156408543

Hah I thought Terry O'Quinn was already on Lost at this point so I was surprised he was still getting this small a role. The first episode where his character really gets focus on Lost is by *far* the best episode of that show.

Daniel Lydford
>>156416422

I think they oversized Leo's suit jackets, just by a size or two, to make it look like he's losing weight - his clothes have always fit so well but in this episode the fit looks off.

Tezz Parker

I've seen West wing series probably about 10 times. This was truly a surprising and sad moment in the show.

Surya Gundavarapu
>>156411909

Does she not? Didn’t she ask Leo to go see a doctor couple of episodes ago when they were all under lockdown ? And if you are referring to why Abby didn’t say anything during summit, the only time that we know of that Abby and Leo were in the same room was when they were wrapping up the summit (thinking that they had no positive result), would be a heck of a time to check in.

Joy M

Ok, check out CJ’s goldfish bowl in the next episode.

Balazs Foldes

I lost my father to a heart attack, at home, one mornming. It appeared much less... dramatic. He was feeling off an ill, I guess he just did not want to face a health issue, and could have just hoped it would be going away eventually. And then, one morning, he just collapsed. By the time the ambulance arrived, they could not do anything. What I do believe is that heart attacks can have different symptoms and different ways of appearing. How the show presented Leo's attack looks very real, probably well researched and consulted, and played in an incredible manner. And, as someone else mentioned it, it's especially shocking to consider that John Spencer passed away in a heart attack not that long later. I can only wonder what went through his head... Anyway. Looking forward to the next episodes.

D Gyre
>>156411909

I was going to mention this as well. There is the conversation between them, when Leo is worried about her and the pills she is taking, but she also brings up his health and what stress does to the body?

Youtalkingtome
>>156455457

It makes me sadder and sadder the more I think about it. Just knowing that Leo won't be on the show each time we fire it up.

Youtalkingtome
>>156493044

I'm so sorry for your loss. I've had family members who have had them and both their experiences were different. It's a scary thing. It can happen to anyone

Tessa

Out of the whole show, this is the only episode I usually skip on a rewatch. Not even The Long Goodbye comes close. THAT SAID, the next two episodes are among my favourites in the season, and even some of my favourites in the show. I just finished watching this reaction and it's already hard to wait for the next one.

Weird Magic
>>156408543

Lost debuted on 9/22/04 (just had our 20th anny!) So TO'Q was doing a little double duty here (this episode aired Oct 04)

Weird Magic

Love love love this episode - it is so complex and John Spencer is such an unheralded GOAT. Not to mention (when listening to the WW Weekly podcast) without exception, every actor LOVED him as a person. Originally airing on October 27, 2004, 'The Birnam Wood' is Episode 2 of Season 6 of The West Wing. It is the 113th episode overall and has an IMDB rating of 8.3, placing it as the #4 ranked episode of this season and #41 out of all the episodes shown so far.

Riesling

The line "Jed, where is Leo?" from Abby Bartlett is a trowback to the episode "Shutdown" where she comes back to the white house and asks "Jed, where is Josh?" at the end of the kitchen scene. And like Josh is aksed back in the room moments later, Leo gets his invetation to join the again immediatly. These two little moments show how much Abby knows here husbands conscience and when to push him a little bit.

JENNIFER ELIASON

I know Leo is the big shocker of this episode but I also want to acknowledge how much empathy and humanity you both bring to the Israeli and Palestinian plot discussion over this arc of episodes in light of *gestures vaguely at the world*. Greatly appreciated.