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The Harriet Dinner: Part II

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Neill Shaughness

I've never liked the drama set up between Tom and Lucy. It feels like something out of a subpar soap opera or CW highschool drama

Gail Hislop

I agree the Matt and Harriett storyline is so annoying now and it was definitely based a lot on his relationship with Kristen Chenoweth, but she was already famous and very successful before she joined the West Wing cast and it was after he had already left that show. In fact they started dating after that, so references Matt makes to having made Harriett a star are not based on that relationship and probably just how he chose to write that part of their story. I always found the storyline of the viper and ensuing disaster and how Tim Busfield played it all hilarious and how much it finished up costing was the icing on the cake of that storyline- although I did wonder watching the last scene of the floor being demolised if that wouldn't have terrifed the poor animals underneath it. Chefs Kiss for the episode was Xau revealing he speaks perfect English!

Michael Bennett

These two episodes for me have been a mess. I do like the way they saved Danny and Jordan, getting stuck on the roof is a classic way to make a couple work it out. The magic trick and waiting for him in the parking lot was smooth. :) But oof, the Matt and Harriet situation is just ROUGH. And Tom and Lucy was pretty dumb, too; that would've been the EASIEST thing in the world to explain up front. I really haven't enjoyed the beef with Darius and Simon, either. The whole time I've just been waiting for Simon to stop being a total asshole and explain his point, which he finally, mercifully got around to here.

mogelijk

Just a reminder, Matt was not at fault for Jeannie. It was Danny that sent Jeannie to babysit Matt because of the back surgery. Matt even complains to Danny about it because he knew it would cause issues with Harriet. Granted, it doesn't fix any of the other issues but it is an area where Matt is taking abuse for something that Danny caused.

Roland

Agreed, a complete of two actors with fantastic screen prescences.

Carl Wilson

Yeesh. How many more episodes of this are there, and why? Sorkin is great at stories about work and pretty shaky at personal drama, and there's not enough interesting on the work level going on here. (Except for Jack.) Pretty close to giving up.

Carl Wilson

Seconding every word of this. Except I thought the roof stuff was just okay.

Mithroch

You're unfamiliar with Natalie Cole, daughter of Nat King Cole? That's surprising. She had big hits in the 70s, 80s, and 90s... including a great cover of Pink Cadillac and a duet of Unforgettable using her father's original recording.

Balazs Foldes

The relationship, and especially this night between Matt and Harry are frustrating. It was written as frustrating, and intentionally so. I feel it can be pretty realistic, too - good people can suprisingly often get mutually toxic in some relationships, and can be so stupid around each other. And that can be really annoying. I still don't enjoy those scenes... but I think I'm not supposed to. But I appreciate them.

Youtalkingtome

It definitely had its moments (and the 180 degree turn on Danny's relationship with Jordan is definitely one), but yeah, this two-episode arc was the weakest point of the series so far for me.

Youtalkingtome

I wouldn't have minded how contrived the conflict between the two was if it wasn't resolved so simply and actually went somewhere. It almost seemed like filler.

Youtalkingtome

Honestly, I wonder if the Lucy-Tom stuff and the Simon-Darius stuff wouldn't have been so blah if the main story (the Matt-Harriet conflict) was better. I feel like it dragged everything down.

Youtalkingtome

It's a really solid take. I genuinely hope we pivot away from Matt and Harriet for the remainder of the show.

Tina

I understand, I truly do, that the Jordan turnaround is wishfulfillment. I even like them together, have always rooted for them. But the magic trick thing is honestly one of my major beefs with the way Sorkin writes women, and Jordan. I will die on this hill: Jordan could not have become "crazy about him" within the timeframe of four hours if she had been feeling borderline stalked by him before then. Yes, he is being a lovable dolt, he does all the right things, and she doesn't feel threatened anymore. But when you feared someone, or when someone seems to disrespect you enough to pursue you publicly like Danny did, while your position of authority is already in severe jeapardy? Then no charm in the world can heal that this quickly. Not even Bradley Whitford at his most disarming. Former fear sticks to the people that caused it like blood on clothes - unless IMMEDIATELY treated, it can be washed away with time and effort, but until then, you will keep seeing it. When someone pursues despite being told 100% clearly to back the fuck away, after already giving hints several times, you don't go suddenly crazy about them. So what, then, happened here? 1. Sorkin doesn't know women fear men like I just described. And he can't imagine it. If that were the case, that is ignorant, lazy, and disappointing. 2. Jordan is meant to be shown as playing hard to get with Danny. All the times we see her sending his calls to voicemail, she is really playing a game, to make him try harder. She only decides he has a chance after he has grovelled appropriately. Is this possible? Not according to her actresses' facial expressions. She seems to go from reluctant at his calls, to annoyed, to pleading with him (instead of yelling at him or firing him - typical for an intimidated powerful woman, she placates, tries logic on him, because direct opposition may become dangerous to her - and her unborn child). 3 . What else could there be? Bad writing? 4. Jordan has pregnancy brain and didn't know what's good for her until Danny stopped / she shallowly realised she liked the attention? Or she just didn't know what she was doing and now fears he's going to stop? A mixture of all?! Anyway, I love Jordan. I hate what she does here, I don't understand it, and to me, it's one of the most annoying things any of Sorkin's female characters has ever done. That fucker painted you as a female to be pursued, in semi-public, while you are single, pregnant, in a high pressure job, hunted by the press, and after you gave him and his partner a huge get out of jail free card, plus a lot of leeway with the show. Plus he immediately yelled at you when you didn't adulate at his altar for dropping the pursuit. WHAT ARE YOU DOING, JORDAN. He might be good at seeming like a good guy, but hasn't he just collosally fucked up and shown how bad it can get when he isn't thinking (nice interpretation) / shown his true colours (not so nice interpretation)? Yuck. And let's not speak of Matt. I feel bad for him, because Harriet knows how to hurt him bad. But he also is so unbearably entitled, and gives terrible advice to everyone around him. Nope, no thank you. If anyone but Matthew Perry was playing him, I doubt any viewers would like him at all.

Roland

Good to get a female perspective, thanks for posting.

I🖤Kraken

It's odd. Except for Jack, these men don't act their age. They're almost 50 and they act like teenagers. They bully and they pout and they beg and they lie. Well, it is set in LA. I remember once seeing a 40yo businessman with a briefcase skateboarding down the boulevard so, it tracks...

I🖤Kraken

Yeah, this was my least favorite episode so far.

Youtalkingtome

I hear ya loud and clear! Sometimes I have to really go out on a limb with shows and at this point, I have to accept that it's TV land. If anyone did this in real life they'd be insane!

Youtalkingtome

If I say a businessman on a skateboard I would definitely try to get a picture. That sounds amazing