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Lola Lirola

I knew you would clock the Lynch influence immediately! Even just in the rhythm of it.

Neill Shaughness

S4 gets a bad rep, and while I agree it's the weakest season I still really like it. Definitely a mix bag. From "Beer Bad" to "Hush". Most of the episodes themselves are pretty strong, I think people who focus on the major narratives mostly remember this as the Initiative season, and I agree the initiative/Walsh/Adam are far from the strongest big bad, (and following the Mayor didn't help them) this might have the most character development of any season. Willow starts the season in a relationship w Oz and ends in a relationship with Tara. Buffy does a ton of growing up this year, and of course, Spike joins the main cast. That said, I'm very excited for you guys getting to S5 (my personal favorite)

Neill Shaughness

Also, I think it was clever of the show to nip the "why doesn't the Scooby gang do the soul merge super Buffy spell all the time" pedantry in the bud. It would have been a nagging question otherwise but would have gotten old fast if they kept using it.

JC

I’ve always loved this episode. Beyond being one of the best representations of dreaming on TV, it captures where the show was at this exact moment in time. Between the Faith reference, Buffy, and the First Slayer, it highlights the inherent loneliness of being the Slayer; while showing how Buffy finds strength in a sisterhood with her friends (yes even Xander can be an honorary sister) and with those slayers who came before. Ending the season waking up from this intense dream and with the ambiguous warning is an interesting parallel to where the show was at the time (how much runway does the show have with the execs; do they need to start wrapping it up; etc): are we waking up to a new Dawn in Sunnydale?

vala p

It could have turned into the Xander as army guy thing if they hadn't made it impossible to revisit.

Leah W.

If you have any further thoughts about the characters current fears and where they are as people, theories for the future, etc. after you rewatch it this weekend and the both or just one of you want to make a video about those thoughts, I would 100% watch it. Loved your reaction and thoughts at the end. I have a lot to say about it, but I'll think I'll keep those comments to myself and give you the space to theorize about everything and come to your own conclusions!

aleidascope

Such an iconic episode leading into my favourite season of this show. Without spoiling anything, one thing I will say is that when you rewatch, pay attention to Tara and Buffy's conversation in Buffy's bedroom. This along with the dream sequence of Faith and Buffy making the bed together is one of my favourite instances of foreshadowing in the entire show.

Chris

Love this episode so much. Christopher Beck's score in this is **amazing**. That sad piano motif in Buffy's dream and during her soliloquy is chef's kiss.

Youtalkingtome

I was honestly wondering just that: can they just use the same spell again if there is another insurmountable villain? Guess not!

Youtalkingtome

For sure, and cheese-slice guy is definitely Lynchian.

Pam Nail

Some translations... What Willow is painting in Greek on Tara's back: "Aphrodite, on a many-colored throne, deathless, daughter of Zeus, weaver of wiles, I now beg you: don't, my mistress, crush my spirit with anguish and torment. But, if ever you heard my voice before from afar, come." This is from a poem by Sappho, a female poet who lived on the isle of Lesbos around 6 BC. [h/t Passion of the Nerd for the translation] From the Giles speaking French scene: Giles: (in French) "... the house where we're all sleeping. All your friends are there having a wonderful time and getting on with their lives. The creature can't hurt you there." Xander: (in English) "What? Go where? I don't understand." Giles: (in French) "Oh for God's sake, this is no time for your idiotic games!" Anya: (in French) "Xander! You have to come with us now! Everybody's waiting for you!" Giles: (in French) "That's what I've been trying to tell him." Xander: (in English) "Honey, I don't... I can't hear you..." Anya: (in French) "It's not important. I'll take you there." Xander: (in English) "Well, wait. Where are we going?" [from the episode's IMDB page]

Jontor11

Wonderful reaction guys! Yes, as you said, this episode has a lot of foreshadowing, but it also brings up past events that might not have seemed important at all. I also think this episode is an example of how great this show was for its time. Instead of thinking 5-10 episodes ahead, this show had multi-seasonal themes and had a clear plan for its whole run. That was not how TV shows was back in the day as they always feared cancellation each season. Can't wait for season 5! :-)

jimmy2k4o .

In Buffy folk lore there’s a thing called “thomogenesis” where you need to pay for the spells you do. Like every action creating an opposing reaction. Like Jonathan’s reality bending spell created the demon. Or using the enjoining spell gives an opportunity for the first slayer to attack you. And so on. Just part of the rules of the universe.

Lola Lirola

I loved, loved the sound mixing change for the dubbing, it was such a fun detail.

Pam Nail

- This is SUCH a fascinating episode, and I highly recommend coming back to it once you've finished the show, because there is SO MUCH foreshadowing that we absolutely cannot talk about yet. - There's plenty to wince at with Xander's actual dream, but it kind of kills me how people judge him for the "do a spell by myself" comment when that is in WILLOW's dream. :P - Really could have done without the criticism of the First Slayer's hair. The one sour note in the episode. Good thing Buffy woke up before her dream self said something even more racist. - "You think you know ... what you are ... what's to come. You haven't even begun." I can't even tell you how excited that line always makes me. This is a show that has so many more stories to tell and is nowhere near running out of steam creatively. Bring on season five!

Stephanie P.

You guys had some good insight into this episode. A lot of people I’ve seen watch it kind of write the episode off as a silly dream, but you both looked for the meanings of things which I think will be a good payoff down the road. I wouldn’t worry about trying to figure out everything because it’s so much mixed together that it would be impossible to guess some directions, but it’s a good episode to rewatch for sure. And you get inside the insecurities the characters have about themselves like you mentioned. You can see what drives the choices they make in upcoming episodes. Since Buffy has foreshadowing dreams as a slayer, I would say hers in particular is one to pay attention to if you do rewatch, although everyone has something going on with theirs. It’s too much to get into to talk about what happened with everyone’s dreams, but I did like that in Xander’s dream, Buffy refers to him as a big brother which is something I enjoyed that he thinks about in his role in her life. Similar to Giles feeling like Buffy’s father. They’ve become a family. You’re now entering season five which tends to be the fan favorite season so I think you’ll enjoy it. It’s probably my favorite season because it consistently has good episodes and arcs.

danzthename

Symbolism and foreshadowing extravaganza! I absolutely love this episode. It's fun on a rewatch, after you finish the series.

Jontor11

Yeah, and I think a great part of the bad rep problem for S4 is Faith. As soon as she shows up, we totally forget about Adam, and all the episodes after that made Adam not that interesting as the BB. But looking at the episodes individually, S4 has some killer ones. I love the comedy of 'Fear itself', 'The Initiative','Pangs','Something blue' and 'Superstar'. And 'Hush', the Faith episodes and this finale is outstanding imo.

Gail Hislop

You guys not reacting to Oz being in scenes with Willow. The Red Velvet curtains in her dream are very David Lynch coded. This ep had one of my favourite scenes - Giles and Spike on the swings with the idea of Spike as a watcher 🤣 Giles and Anya speaking French to Xander is so annoyingly what a dream would do. And that all their dreams interconnect and there are crossovers is very clever. Cheese Guy was just a silly Joss Whedon character who means nothing. Tara though held the key to so much 😉 Season 5 is gonna be a ride.

Carl Wilson

Agreed completely. Personally I have bigger problems with some later seasons on character levels, even though I prefer all their main stories to this one.

danzthename

The score is amazing. I love that Beck makes a cameo as the piano player at the Bronze.

dys

"I wear the cheese. It does not wear me" is a line that has lived rent-free in my head for years.

Carl Wilson

This is the culmination of how incredibly BtVS has handled dream sequences over the years - the scenes with Buffy & Faith in each other's dreams at the end of last season and earlier in this one were the peak before now, and here Whedon is turning that into a whole Lynchian episode. I think it's better to think of it as a coda to the season, after having the real plot finale last time. And yes, there are quite a few things in it that matter to later seasons, and build on the individual characters, but I wouldn't get overly invested in every little detail - a lot of it is just playful and surreal too. It's a stylistic tour de force and a big part of the point is just to do that for the pleasure of it.

danzthename

I would hold off on watching explainer videos about this though till they've seen the rest cause of spoilers.

that girl

I've been looking forward to this episode since you started the series.

Leah W.

I meant that I would watch an extra video that Joe and Kevin make about their own theories and thoughts lol. I'll edit my original comment to be more clear

Kimba

Great episode and reaction. On your rewatch, pay attention to what Giles says at the end of his dream. I think you guys missed it the first time because you were reacting to something that came before it.

HereBeMeghan

One of my favorite Christophe Beck scores, it has such a lonely haunting quality. This is definitely an episode that rewards rewatches, especially once you conclude the whole series. "You think you know... what's to come... what you are. You haven't even begun."

Genevieve Clerc

as a french person, i really need to read this to understand it. It is so badly pronounced... I pick up some words, but whoa !! difficult !

Genevieve Clerc

Not a lot of people to comment Giles dream... During this whole season, he is questionning his life. Now we see that not only he could have wish to be a singer, he also dreamt about having a family life with his girl friend. (She' left him after Hush). It is not only Buffy who makes sacrifices. Willow thinks she is a fraud, and Xander never dealt with his family's issues.

that girl

The Greek Willow writes on Tara's back is from Sappho's Ode to Aphrodite. Though she writes it in all caps and doesn't mark accent or care about word boundaries at all. There's also a couple of transcription errors (at one point she writes ΤΣΑ instead of ΤΑΣ), and I can't quite tell how far she gets. The last word I can clearly make out is "ΠΑΤΡΟΣ", but she continues on for a bit after that.

I🖤Kraken

Yes, Olivia crying over the spilled baby carriage just breaks my heart.

Erica

Joss whedon has said in interviews that the cheese guy is the only thing he's ever written that has no deeper meaning. It's just a weird guy 😂

Erica

The highs of s4 are so, so high, and the lows are (by buffy standards) so, so low. But while seasons 3 and 5 are my favorites (like most people), i think every season is good and has amazing things about it

Erica

Bringing more attention to this comment bc Sappho's Ode To Aphrodite on Tara's back is such a beautiful depiction of the poem. Also bc the french translations are good to see :)

Erica

Ooh i would love an "our theories" type video. It could be patrons only to entice more people to join lol

Erica

V xvaqn srry yvxr fcrpvsvpnyyl cbvagvat bhg gur qnja yvar orsber 5k05 vf xvaqn fcbvyrel, ohg gung'f whfg zl bcvavba. Naq gb or snve vz zneevrq gb gur genqvgvba bs tnfyvtugvat arj ivrjref nobhg Qnja naq cergraqvat fur'f orra gurer fvapr qnl bar 😂 ntnva, whfg zl bcvavba, gnxr be yrnir vg ☺️

Kt B

Season Five, LET’S GO!!! 🚵 🏔️🌋🌄

Kt B

To be clear, I adore Season 4, and actually 6 is my favorite (unpopular opinion, I know), but everybody agrees 5 is peak.

Erica

Yeah, when people use the spell bit to take down xander im like "while xander totally could be knocked down a peg, that's just the way willow perceives him," and then i have to decide if that's better or worse 😂

Kt B

That’s awesome! Thanks for sharing that!

Kt B

Exactly. Very well said.

Erica

These are unconfirmed theories that are never addressed in the show, so idk if they count as spoilers, but im going to encode it anyway V xvaq bs jbaqre vs byvivn unq n zvfpneevntr? Gurl arire nqqerff vg ba gur fubj. Nabgure gurbel vir urneq vf whfg gung fur jnagf tvyrf gb zbir onpx gb ratynaq fb gurl pna qngr sbe erny, naq fgneg n snzvyl, ohg tvyrf unf guvf vaperqvoyl vzcbegnag gvr gb uvf yvsr va Pnyvsbeavn

Erica

I gotta say, i don't think willow's dream is entirely about being insecure in her relationship with tara. For kost of her life, Willow was deeply uncool (by tv standards anyway) and unliked in school, just a mousy nerd. She's grown so much, into a genuinely cool person (again, not that she wasn't before, but it's tv so we have to believe she wasn't) who is surrounded by people who love her and who she loves. When she gets to the classroom and buffy rips off her clothes, we see willow as she sees herself - still a loser, still a joke to the people around her, the people she loves making fun of her to each other (tara and oz specifically), no one caring what she has to say. She feels like all the growth she's had is just a costume

Erica

I woke up early to watch this before work, that's how important this episode is. Only 3 of my 4 alarm clocks had gone off 😂 (i have extreme sleep issues bc i work overnights)

Jonathan

Going into this episode originally live I thought we were in for something big if they did all that last week I figured this might be some big Angel crossover new big bad cliffhanger and was mad that this was the season finale all summer. Dream episodes where we know they are dreaming is a trope I really don't enjoy but this would have been fun at any other spot in the season instead of the finale.

dys

Agree with everything y'all are saying. Some of the best individual episodes of the whole show (and this finale is one of them), but as a whole it's much less cohesive than the seasons before and after it.

Kt B

A quick word of reassurance - it’s true that this episode is packed with hints, foreshadowing, and Easter eggs that will be fun to catch on rewatch. HOWEVER, keep in mind that this aired on network TV. Unless you were a fan who had a recordable VCR machine to tape shows as they broadcast, nobody had the opportunity to go back and watch the episode to parse it for clues before Season 5 aired. Whatever impressions it left on you upon first viewing was what informed you heading into the season premiere. Viewers didn’t even get a chance to rewatch the episode before the Season 5 finale, unless their local station did a rerun marathon, so it’s ok if you miss/forget/misunderstand things. It won’t affect your enjoyment of the rest of the show at all. My biggest takeaway is the exploration of the motivations of the characters, which are often revealed in their anxieties, insecurities, and recurring focus. There are also some general themes that will be expanded upon, but unlike in Willow’s dream, there will be no book report. *Not sure when the Season 4 DVDs were released, but it took a long time. **Regarding the book report, Passion of the Nerd did actually do an equivalent of a book report, and it’s incredible. There’s a non-spoiler version as well as a spoiler version, but despite how much I revere his work, I think it will be most rewarding for you to skip it for now and go in with a clean slate on your first time watch.

Lyla

Ah a fellow Season 6 lover! Always good to see. And I totally agree about 4 and 5 too.

Lyla

Great reaction guys! You picked up some really key details already, which is impressive for a first watch of this episode, so dense with detail as it is.

The Ginger Historian

Joe: This is a dream. Kevin: I know. *moments later* Kevin: HOW ARE ALL THESE PEOPLE IN DEATH OF A SALESMAN?

danzthename

Ohh yes that would be awesome. I second that idea.

Miranda

*Waves* at other Season 6 enjoyers!

Kat

I love this episode and it was great watching you guys get so invested in it. So many reactors come up short here, just think it's nonsense and basically laugh at it or ignore it. For anyone wanting a really in-depth look at all the symbolism in this episode (and the show in general) I would recommend Mark Field's book - BTVS: Myth, Metaphor and Morality. It's basically an essay for each episode of the show and it's mind blowing when you realise how much detail you never noticed while watching. Each essay is written spoiler free, which tbh is a little annoying when you've seen the whole show but makes it safe for newbies and he does fully discuss everything when it gets out in the open so to speak.

Lola Lirola

I love that they clearly had so much fun with it.

Christopher simeon

The first slayer attacks each Scooby's part of the spell. She sucks out Willow's spirit. She rips out Xander's heart. She opens Giles' mind and she hacks at Buffy's hands (Tho she is unaffected.) If part of the theme of this season is humans messing with supernatural forces having consequences then this episode is the scoobies facing their consequences.

Jamie Morgan

This is one of those episodes where you can watch it frame by frame, and the next time you watch it you'll STILL find something you didn't notice before. Rot13: Unir jr nyy jnezrq hc bhe tnfyvtugvat zhfpyrf sbe arkg jrrx?

GemmaBeeBee

I love this episode and how it sums up all the identity issues that have been in play throughout season 4. Willow feeling like she is still being relegated to Buffy’s sidekick, Xander’s lack of direction and Giles’ feeling that he has lost his usefulness in life after the lost of his place as Buffy’s watcher. All the issues that made it so easy for Spike to stir up trouble between the core group. I particularly liked with Xander how all roads led back to the basement! Also you mentioned Xander’s dream about Willow & Tara - I think it was more that she has taken this huge leap forward with her identity and he is still the ‘post high school loser’ with no plan for life.

Alex

This episode is brilliant. This is one to come back to again later. Bring on the next season.

Tina

It took me a few moments into the episode, then I yelled about cheese at my empty hotel room.

Tina

Oma! I never noticed the outside shot of the ice cream truck before! On like 25 rewatches!! Actually, I don't think I have watched this episode with an analysis eye for a long while - there is SO MUCH in this. It probably gave Joss and everyone writing on it the giggles of mad glee the whole time they were writing it. Yowza - and the only one I always think back on is the very, very glaringly obvious one. But so much!! I love this show.

Tina

You guys keep underestimating Armin Shimmerman ! Apart from how genuinely wonderful he is to fans, he is a huge theater actor (he was one of the leads in the Many Henrys Shakespeare in the WW episode in New York, the one where Bartlet decides to kick Ritchie's ass. Boy, crime, I don't know. Armin is in the play that Jed watches while Ritchie is at the ballgame.

Youtalkingtome

Can't believe this was considered a weak season. I love the choices they made this season.

Youtalkingtome

I just finished rewatching it. My god. I think it's one of the best episodes of TV

Youtalkingtome

So many of you guys are stoked for S5. I can't wait!

kosmickrab

The beginning of Willow's dream was giving me flashbacks to the episode where Buffy, Xander, and Willow put on the play. I am looking forward to next season, particularly in terms of Giles. My biggest issue with this season was how aimless he was.

Jontor11

Buffy watchers have ridiculously high standards. :-) It would be interesting to hear Joe & Kevin's perspective of season 4 after they have watched it all.

Jontor11

Yeah, the fact that Tara says "that clock is completely wrong". It took a while before I understood why that was important.

Jontor11

Fun fact. Tara was in Buffy's dream as she says she was "borrowed" and had to speak for the First Slayer. They initially had plans for Angel to show up in Tara's role here, but scheduling conflicts didn't make that happen.

Tina

Hah! Naw.

Kimba

Oh I never caught that the attacks matched their individual cards/roles in the spell.

dys

I think you guys commented on it yourselves that Adam and the Initiative were less compelling villains than the Mayor, that's a major reason why it's considered a weaker season. It's also just growing pains adjusting to not having the highschool setting anymore.

Carl Wilson

It's a reference to the then-recent DiCaprio version of The Man in the Iron Mask: "I wear the mask. It does not wear me."

The Ginger Historian

I think (based on pure speculation) the answer might be that Willow has no knowledge of Arthur Miller's work and has probably just heard the title somewhere so she knows it's a play. That part of the dream was mostly about her performance anxiety, which we saw for a bit way back in Nightmares from season 1.

TalynOne

Loved the reaction. Armin Shimerman (Snyder) is a former USC professor that taught classical acting and Shakespearean scene study through the Antaeus Theatre Company. He was a main cast member in Star Trek : DS9 and every behind the scenes praise him as a generous person, always willing to read/rehearse lines with everybody, even guest actors.

BrummaGen

I just upgraded my membership so I could watch this episode in full and not wait for the edited version. It's always a great one to see new viewers' reactions to, and I knew that you guys would really appreciate it. Though as you guessed rightly at the end, you will appreciate it even more on rewatches, especially after viewing more of what is to come. It is so tempting to comment on your interpretations, and point out things you have missed (though you caught plenty of the significance) but I think that's not fair as we all have the benefit of hindsight and multiple rewatches. I would only say, in general, that the significance of each dream lies mainly in what we learn about the dreamer, not about any other characters who may feature in it. Except of course the First Slayer. And the cheese guy.