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The West Wing, Season 2, Episode 22 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-07-25 20:31:52
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Two Cathedrals

Files

Previews only

The West Wing, Season 2, Episode 22

Two Cathedrals

Comments

MrRuss50

Woohoo! Made my week posting this today. Been looking forward to this episode since the day I found this channel.

margo m

can’t wait to watch this one!! this episode has always been on my list of greatest episodes of television—it will keep its spot for quite some time!

Martin Nicholls

Sweet, was thinking you were gonna blue balls us until tomorrow :)

MarkyO

OMG ITS HERE ITS HERE ITS HERE

jimmy2k4o .

I love the ending. A lesser writer would show the answer. But sorkin never talks down to his audience. He expects them to be as smart as him.

Pam Nail

Not quite my favorite but very near it. I think the cathedral scene is pretty inarguably the best scene in the whole show -- certainly Martin Sheen's most iconic moment. (My main quibbles with the ep are that the cold open is a bit underwhelming and I'm not the biggest fan of the actor who plays Young Jed.) And yeah, LOL Mandy just kind of disappeared -- "put on a bus," as they say. Sorkin tentatively planned to have her come back this season for (I think) the State of the Union episodes (she would have been working for Seth Gillette) but it obviously didn't work out.

MarkyO

"He kinda looks furious" hahahah well uhh... give it a minute. So lots of trivia about this episode so I'll start with the most popular. Speaking Latin is the only way the show was allowed to say what he said on TV. Immediately after filming that scene, Martin Sheen went to confession. (Although this one might be anecdotal)

MrRuss50

That final scene with Dire Straits song is amazing television that we so rarely get to see I feel. Favorite charlie moment of the series, and theres alot of them, is at the end when the president refuses a jacket to protect himself from the rain, Charlie takes off his own as well. Amazing scene already but the little things like that were what made it truly great.

Taylor

I’ll put the translation after a jump in case you both truly don’t want to know. But I will say that Aaron Sorkin said they put that dialogue in Latin because they weren’t sure if the network censors would be happy if it was in English. Not sure how much blasphemy they allow on network TV. gratias tibi ago, domine. Thank you, Lord. haec credam a deo pio, a deo justo, a deo scito? Am I to believe these things from a righteous god, a just god, a wise god? cruciatus in crucem To hell with your punishments! (literally "(put/send) punishments onto a cross") tuus in terra servus, nuntius fui; officium perfeci. I was your servant, your messenger on the earth; I did my duty. cruciatus in crucem -- (with a dismissive wave of the hand) eas in crucem To hell with your punishments! And to hell with you! (literally, "may you go to a cross")"

Taylor

I never fail to get chills when Dire Straits literally sings, “brothers in arms,” at the exact moment Toby, Sam, and Josh fall in line behind the President. They use a lot of music in amazing ways in this show, but this one is my favorite.

Weird Magic

I moved back and forth between tears and goosebumps the entire time... As I posted in the previous episode thread... Duo cathedrales mea ventus eventus alicuius spectaculi omnis temporis est Originally airing on May 16, 2001, 'Two Cathedrals' is Episode 22 of Season 2 of The West Wing. It is the 44th episode overall and has an IMDB rating of 9.7, placing it as the #1 ranked episode of this season and #1 out of all the episodes shown so far.

jimmy2k4o .
>>113725856

I was gonna say that, you beat me to it :) My posting it wasnt post hoc ergo propter hoc. unum idem sentiunt, mentibus magna

jimmy2k4o .

Bartlett refuses a coat at the end so Charlie take his off. If his dad is gonna get soaked (but have great hair) then he will too……… Charlie is the manifestation of loyalty itself. Mrs landingham was Bartlett’s conscience, so it’s interesting how he’ll change with his big sister around. Maybe he’ll mKe mistake or be too afraid to act because he doesn’t have her reassurance that he’s a good man and has been since teenage years.

Weird Magic

Season 2 Emmy results 8 Wins Drama Series - Sorkin et al Supporting Actress - Allison Janney Supporting Actor - Bradley Whitford Directing - Tommy Schlamme (In The Shadow Of Two Gunman) Editing - Bill Johnson (Two Cathedrals) Cinematography - Thomas Del Ruth (Noel) Sound Mixing - Several people (In The Shadow Of Two Gunman) 10 other nominations Writing - Aaron Sorkin (In The Shadow Of Two Gunman) Lead Actor - Martin Sheen Lead Actor - Rob Lowe Supporting Actress - Stockard Channing Supporting Actor - John Spencer Supporting Actor - Richard Schiff Guest Actor - Oliver Platt Directing - Laura Innes (Shibboleth) Music Composition - W.G. Snuffy Walden Art Direction - Ken Hardy and Ellen Totleben (Noel)

Sandee B

Let’s also give a shout out to the younger actress who played Delores Landingham. Talk about pitch perfect! I’m assuming she watched some scenes to get the right cadence.

jimmy2k4o .
>>113725340

Yes I heard that but I heard the bishop gave him permission before anyway so no confession was needed. Seems even if the. I shop didn’t see it as a sin, Martin sheen did. Even a atheist like me understands that. I was raised Catholic and even if you leave the church, that catholic guilt stays with you forever. They’re experts at that. You can take the boy out of Catholicism but you can’t take the Catholicism out the boy…… (That wasn’t a dirty priest joke btw)

JVTrickypants

Dang....got a show to do tonight so guess have to wait on this!!

Mithroch

Well, fellas... I hate to be the one to bust your bubble on The National Cathedral... but considering that Washington DC itself didn't exist until 1790... I don't think it's hundreds of years old or built by England. Also... Feckless Thug is, to this day, one of my favorite insults. I use it whenever I can. Last... the single best season of television is True Detective Season 1... but WW S2 is high up there.

jimmy2k4o .
>>113725290

What is your favorite? Say it as season x episode Y incase you do t wanna spoil stuff But I Susie t it’s “bartlett for America”

Jake

The perfect episode of television. So glad you've seen it.

Gayle Dick

I have watched the ending to this episode countless times over, think it is the best scene put to music ever. Will never fail to give me chills. The song is Brothers in Arms by Dire straits.

jimmy2k4o .

I wish in the scene with Mrs landingham and the give me numbers. “Leading cause of black men death under 30?” “ homicide” I wish this was added “What’s the leading cause of death of white men under 40” “Suicide” Just seems, not that I’m Being left out or the problem my generation has is being left out, but focusing only on black deaths seems one sided so kinda Pandering.

jimmy2k4o .

House Md Did great walk and talks……

jimmy2k4o .

“Smokers are dumb”. Cmon guys…… When people burn their mouths on McDonald coffee, they sue and everybody rolls their eyes. That’s why they ask for tort reform. It’s that smokers were well warned about the dangers, in a free society wee can take things that are bad for us, as long as we’re warned properly. I started smoking at 12 and knew it was deadly for years before that. The lawsuit implies I was negligent or lied to and I wasn’t. Then again I’m in the uk and was born in 1993. That may change things.

jimmy2k4o .

Yes if it’s not obvious they did film this inside the real national cathedral.

Jack
>>113728734

Pretty sure you also didn't get buildings of that scale and quality anywhere in pre-revolutionary America!

Jack
>>113730065

It would have been interesting to include that for sure. I wonder if they didn't include it because it's factually inaccurate? I suppose they might have felt that it would be misleading to assert it like that, even in a fictional setting.

Sandee B
>>113731201

My brother is a retired Secret Service agent. He watched the show when it first came out, and the only nitpick he had was the fact that to go from the White House to where they were holding the press conference, there’s no logical way that you would pass by the national cathedral. They took some creative license there, because only people who live in DC, would really even notice that. 😜

Sandee B

Laurence O’Donnell was a writer on West Wing. He got tapped to play Jed’s father in this episode. I don’t know the backstory of how he got it, but maybe somebody got cast and then had to drop out? He never acted before this I don’t think.

Sarah P
>>113728155

It kind of blows my mind that Allison Janney was nominated in a “supporting” role and Rob Lowe in a “lead” one. On the other hand, I don’t remember if we’ve had an episode — yet — where CJ gets a big, dramatic, leading plot line? Have we? (If we have, then I really don’t get it.) I mean, I know Sam was originally supposed to be one of the leading characters over the others, but it really never feels like it shook out that way to me, even in S1.

Sarah P
>>113728180

She’s AMAZING at being so clearly the same character, while also doing her own good acting with the new material!

Sarah P

A lot of shots in this give me goosebumps! When Toby, Josh and Sam fall into line with the entourage just as the words “brothers in arms” go by . . . that shot of the guy examining Jed’s cigarette in the cathedral, as Jed drives by and looks at the building . . . CJ’s face when he calls on the “wrong” reporter . . .

Max F.

I don't recall from where I got this idea, but as I've grown older and rewatched this show, I've begun to think of seasons 1 and 2 as one long story. I've seen shows where seasons 1 and 2 are so different that you can barely tell their connected (and I'm not even talking about anthology series), let alone the same series. Here, the characters have felt established, yet evolving in every scene. I don't know if a scene where an emotion or reaction felt out left field. I think the same goes for the plots, as well.

David Vandervliet

Washington DC wasn't built until after the US was founded (the capital was in NY first) So the National Cathedral is a soley American edifice.

Brendon Waldron

Love the scene in the rain at the end. He'd lost his faith there for a minute but after confessing his sins on live television its like he's getting baptised again...

JVTrickypants

Aaron Sorkin was asked to name three episodes of The West Wing he would recommend to people that he would want them to watch to get an idea of the show. All came from this season. I believe they were: Noel 17 People Two Cathedrals Fixed - thought it was 18th and Potomac but then remembered it was Noel.

JVTrickypants

Quick synopsis of Rob Lowe leaving. He got paid more than anybody when he first came on because his "quote" was higher. He did lower it a bit to get the part, but was quite a bit above everybody but Martin Sheen. When the rest of the cast got a raise he didn't, the thinking being he was already paid more than the others for several years and this was really balancing things out. He didn't think that was fair so decided to leave the show. No hate, career decisions and choose what you feel is right...but from the outside seems literally mathematically odd. Also went on to do a show on NBC right after called Lyon's Den which was...not good.

JVTrickypants

Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms is another one on the Spotify "Cool Sorkin Jams" playlist.

Balazs Foldes

Oh, such a wonderful episode. Peak of TV, can't get much better that this. I am amased by the younger Mrs Landigham, her voice and delivery are so perfect, she just mirrors Kathryn Joosten so perfectly. The cathedral scene, again, brave, so well delivered, so well written. And directed, and shot. My god, those beautiful cathedral shots, and the Eye of God looking down in the end through the window... And all of it. Sorkin does his little tricks again. You can keep listing it. Like, Option A and Option B. Josh makes a joke about the 'I'm not running' answer (tarantella on the Trueman balcony), so that you will automatically remember that the second option is the NO answer. So, they can have the shocking delivery of 'It was Leo. It's Answer B'. So clever. The same thing with hands in pocket, looking away, and smiling. Mrs Landigham emphasises it, explains it again. Which seems just like a nice little moment in the young Bartlet scenes. And it comes back at the end, and you immediately know what it means. It feels clever, and makes you feel privy to the little secrets of the president and the show, make you feel an insider. Brilliant. Oh, it was also the first time I noticed. Bartlet talking to God, a drunk driver hitting Mrs L, she bought her first car - 'was that supposed to be funny'? Is the exact same words his father asks from him in a couple of minutes, about banning a book from the library about banning books. 'Was that supposed to be funny?' So, really, Bartlet was just giving in to his internal father-urge, talking to god out of spite, not being the fair character he is. And he needs Mrs L in his headspace to put him right. The election is not about him, it's about who is best for that country. And for me as a viewer, obviously. I need my remaining Bartlet seasons, not Hoynes seasons.

Balazs Foldes
>>113740734

And Brothers in Arms from Dire Straits makes for a great baptism song. I'm not catholic, is it often played in churches? It's so good... ;)

JVTrickypants

Apologies if this has been posted already. When they were about to film the scene where Bartlet yells at god there were a bunch of priests hanging around. Sorkin said he felt he should go warn them. "Fathers, I just wanted to make you aware that in this scene the president swears quite harshly at god." They said, "Yeah, it's gonna be great!!!"

JVTrickypants

Kristen Nelson played the young Mrs. Landingham. Kathryn Joosten (Mrs. Landingham) told her she needed to go out for the part. They worked together on a pilot and got along and kept talking to each other in a Chicago accent. Obviously that's not all that was needed, but it was a good start to a great performance. Also later played with Dule on Psych as the Chief.

JVTrickypants

Tommy Schlamme, obviously who was basically co-creator of the show and the look with Sorkin and John Wells, always said he couldn't help but take season premieres, Christmas episodes, and finales for awhile. He had great directors, but he was basically like "They are too amazing and I'm too selfish."

Zachary Loeser

Martin Sheen never won an Emmy for The West Wing. Every year he ran headlong into either James Gandolfini, James Spader, or Kiefer Sutherland.

Youtalkingtome
>>113748929

I hate that the reason he leaves was essentially because of money. Reminds you that it is indeed a business and not just artistic expression.

Youtalkingtome
>>113750242

It's interesting that they had so much father drama happen this season. It really is the theme of the season. Sins of the father.

Youtalkingtome
>>113752175

I completely understand losing to Gandolfini but come on! Those are all great actors but he is doing some of the best acting I've ever seen.

Riesling

I love the cathedral scene, especially because I remember thinking "oh that´s why I learned Latin for 6 years in school", when I watched it the first time. And the title "two cathedrals" doesn´t only stand for the two churches in the episode, it´s also a synonym for church & state and bartlet is struggeling with both, faith and politics in this episode. Also great detail that charlie doesn´t wear a coat when the president refuses to.

Javier Suarez

I haven’t gotten around to watching WW yet, but I saw this reaction had 95 comments and just wanted to say you guys are great for responding to all these. No other channel I follow does that and it really helps build a sense of community, so thanks again 🙏

Weird Magic
>>113757369

agreed - it's a nice little "sorkin-esque" touch that adds to the experience without realizing it sometimes :)

Laura Dawson

I’ve been looking forward to watching this reaction all day, so thank you both so much. I still get goosebumps and I still get teary, and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen this one. Such a powerful episode and a first class finale to a season. One touch I quite like is when young Jed says to Mrs Landingham ‘what could you possibly want?’ Bartlett said the exact same thing during Celestial Navigation when Charlie was trying to get him out of bed at 4am (the episode with Josh’s ‘secret plan to fight inflation’). The actor uses the same words, but also the exact same tone and inflection. It’s a nice, subtle call-back in an episode of great call-backs, and I think it’s a really nice touch!

Luca Siracusa (Bob)

We are not exaggerating when we say we all were here for this, we all waited for Two Cathedrals This is the perfect episode under so many layers: it works perfectly on its own and every important scene in the episode is first addressed in a previous scene - "Was that supposed to be funny?" Jed asks God - "Was that supposed to be funny" his father asks him in the office - "I didn't miss it. I just haven't gotten to it yet." says Jed to Mrs.Landingham while hosing a scull - "It's not that I don't know how to use it, it's just that I haven't learned yet." says Jed about the Intercom before the ghost - "Yes. It's a non-denominational service." says Margaret before they go to Dolores' funeral - the same thing in the flashbacks - Jed's father finding a cigarette in the cathedral - Jed's lighting one after the speech And all the small but incredible references to the past - The tropical storm that took out the ship in the Atlantic in season 1 - "What was Josh Lyman, a warning shot? That was my son" the whole story inside In The Shadow of Two Gunmen, with him and Josh bonding after he loses his father and the SMALL break in Martin's voice when he says the word "son" There are so many small details you can miss that people have analyzed during the years - Charlie leaving his coat on his desk after his father did the same in the storm - The last three shots before Bartlet decides are CJ, Josh, and Sam (3); Donna and Margaret (2), Leo (1). It's a countdown - Behind the last shot of Bartlet on the podium, the US Flag continues to move and "grow" outside the window until it fills it in the last frame, with a great frame shot - Bartlet's last "words" with God before this episode are him saying "Talk to me" and hoping to receive an answer in the end of Galileo V - The young Bartlet in his father's office and the one in the Oval have the same exact tie - A little behind the scenes you will never believe: the rant at God was Martin's FIRST TAKE And then the biggest one: You stuck your hands in your pockets, looked away, and smiled People normally assumed it's a thing born in this episode but it's not: Bartlet does the same thing in the finale of Let Bartlet Be Bartlet watching Leo from his office after they tell the staff it's time to change the direction of the administration This episode is just perfection: I've hyped it in the last few months among others because we can't even compare it with the rest of the show. Like you guys said: we don't know how it is possible, but it is just superior You two gave us an incredible reaction with so much attention, love, and wit. You made the day, the week and probably some more for many people and we're going to stay here up until the end Thank you Joe. Thank you Kevin. You are building something very special and human

Youtalkingtome
>>113795978

I'm not being disingenuous when I say that I have tears in my eyes as I type this. The love and support that all of you show us IS why we do this. You all are so passionate and supportive of this show. The show truly belongs to all of you and we wanna say thank you from the bottoms of our hearts. Thank you for being here and guiding us through this excellent TV show.

jimmy2k4o .

About the Catholic vs Protestant thing. The Protestant reformation started under Henry viii. It was finalized by his daughter Elizabeth I. It was during Elizabeth’s reign that English first got to USA and named the land after the queen. So it could go either way, but it was probably Protestant since (almost) all monarchs after Elizabeth were Protestant, and those monarchs were the ones in power when people were moving to the 13 colonies. Here’s a great sketch about British naming things and the middle clip is a joke about English discovering eastern America. https://youtu.be/dOBhf8f7cXM Trust me it’s funny.

Kelsey Krehbiel

I don't know if you all recognized the man who played Jed's father. He's Lawrence O'Donnell, who has for the past 13 years hosted his own news show on MSNBC. This episode is why I have trouble watching it. So, the next episode in the queue is Isaac and Ishmael, the episode that was written in response to 9/11. In case you're not aware, it is a bottle episode. It is a really interesting stand alone episode and is a really thoughtful response to the event. I was 10, in fifth grade and living in DC. That day is still burned into my mind and this episode helped shape my understanding and response to it. However, it is important to remember that it is not part of canon. It has no place in the timeline of the show and the characters may feel slightly different to us. I don't think it is on HBO, but before the show originally aired, there was a brief clip that explained it. It's probably on Youtube.

Devon Cooper

Have been looking forward to this for awhile now! Great reaction! And yes, I am Glad you are doing season 3 episode 1. It is important to see Sorkin’s take. Great job guys!

Aude M

Did you notice the last line of this episode, by the amazing John Spencer ? "Watch this!".... It's like it was fate 😉

D Gyre

I joined because I couldn't wait to see you guys get here.

Ingemar Svensson

I'm a bit surprised you haven't commented on Lawrence O'Donnell at all from what I've seen. I guess you don't watch MSNBC much. O'Donnell played a big part on the show both as a consultant from his years working in congress as a staffer for Senator Moynihan during the early 90s. He provided a lot of story ideas as well as writing 16 episodes on the show in addition to of course playing Bartlets father.

Youtalkingtome
>>113808927

I remember it as well. I am very curious to see how a show that is so political handle this situation. Especially when it was so fresh.

Victoria E (vickster5001)

This episode remains the best episode of television ever for me. It’s simply perfect. The story, the writing, the acting, the incorporation of Brothers In Arms in to the screenplay to chart that journey to the conference, flanked by his team and that ending. Season 2 of The West Wing starts and ends with my favourite episodes and is easily one of the single best seasons of TV I’ve ever watched. Shows now would struggle to make a 12 ep season this good and they made 22.

Bertie Wooles

Damn, I am a week late to this but for my money the best episode of TV ever made and the last 5-6 may be the best thing ever put to film. The only issue, if you can even call it that, is that you have to watch 2 long seasons of TV to get to it and feel the full impact of the moment, so you can't hook new viewers in with this episode

Arek Schneyer

Man I love this episode, and i adored your reactions to it!

Cristy

The best episode and your reaction didn't disappoint. I am so happy you enjoyed it too. This one makes me emotional every time I watch it (and it has been a fair few times). I absolutely love the way The West Wing uses music to complement the story. There are so many amazing musical moments (besides the original music by Snuffy Walden) and so many more for you to see but this one was one of the best. On an unrelated note, I really enjoyed Don Henley's New York Minute in Somebody's Going to Emergency, Somebody's Going To Jail (2x16) as well. I'm looking forward to you watching the rest!

Youtalkingtome
>>120909996

I've watched this episode several times since we've done this and it makes me tear up. Every. Single. Time. Love it.