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Mad Men, Season 4, Episode 5 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-09-28 01:58:07
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

The Chrysanthemum and the Sword

Files

Previews only

Mad Men, Season 4, Episode 5

The Chrysanthemum and the Sword

Comments

Actuarial Lurker

A hilarious episode despite Roger's crude racism...recall my sneaky comment a few episodes back on how that generation dealt with PTSD and war as men. Yes- from the story at Don's house in Season 1 when he regaled Betty about hi WWII stories as he tried to hit on her its sounded like Roger didn't see much action. Now we get to see through some layers about his Navy buddies dying in his arms....

Actuarial Lurker

In your pre-episode comments, I refer back to my observation that Anna probably DID know and let Don off the hook by letting him think she didn't know to spare him

Actuarial Lurker

The Chrysanthemum and the Sword was a REAL book published in the 1950s trying to teach American businessman how to do culturally fit in with Japanese when trying to negotiate transactions....

Actuarial Lurker

Remember that Sally was already acting out when Grandpa Gene died and asked about Medgar Evers and started beating the chubby girl in her class....Betty is so self-centered she doesn't care that the divorce is messing with her kids....at least Henry thinks she needs a child counselor

Actuarial Lurker

Classic Don Draper is back- he shames the rules-based Japanese old school senior partners for breaking their rules so gets Ted to waste money AND shame the client into respecting Don over Roger....while also making Ted look culturally ignorant

heheheheheh

Roger didn't marry HIS secretary. He married Don's. :D On first watch I hated Henry, but you are right, Henry is in a way raising another child - Betty never learned healthy models of communication and emotional maturity from her parents + life with Don left her quite wounded and abrasive. Doesn't excuse her behaviour at all, but kind of nice of Henry to have such patience for her. Guess he really does love her. I really recommend reading Tom and Lorenzo's Mad Men recaps and analysis, as well as their Mad Style analysis. Season 4 is when they started doing it episode by episode, so there are no spoilers for the future (because the recaps were done real time). Episode 4 recap: https://tomandlorenzo.com/2010/08/mad-men-s4e5-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-2/ Costume analysis: https://tomandlorenzo.com/2010/08/mad-style-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-2/

Chris

Don tells Dr Miller he’s surprised at what people confess to her and then immediately opens up about his problems with Betty and their kids. Both Betty and Don basically end up talking to therapists in the episode though neither is willing to admit they need therapy.

Chris
>>118539270

This is the episode where I started to appreciate Henry.

Chris
>>118520828

Good point about Sally already acting out. In the episode where Gene dies, that shot of Betty closing the door and leaving Sally outside is heartbreaking.

Denisse Brito

As a child I cut my own hair, my sister’s and my brother’s 😂 I did not get hit for it and my parents liked to hit us with a belt or a “Chancla” when we missed behaved. The Sally thing: It’s actually normal for kids to do this. It’s normal for child development and it’s normal because of sexuality. I think that their reaction is more about being “conservative” than anything else, and being “conservative” is all about being a good Christian 😑. Human sexuality is such an interesting topic to talk about, there’s such a rich history of how people behaved when it came to sex. Examples are: how it was common for men to go to brothels at some points in history, then we went all the way back to “don’t talk about it, do it at night” kind of thing. This episode is an interesting one when it talks about racism. I find it curious that they can do business and treat the Japanese with respect but they won’t afford the same compaction to African Americans. It’s also curious because right now in 2023 there is still people that hold a grudge against the Japanese. At least Henry, Don and Betty… In my culture women jokingly refer to their husbands as their “child”, because we are literally raised with the knowledge that we need to know how to clean, cook and look good while doing it because we need to serve our husbands. So I was raised to be Betty pretty much. With the years the culture has “relaxed” that a little but I still get in constant fights with my family, because I refuse to get married and to “shut up” when people are being misogynist. With that said, I find it quite funny how much of a child Betty is and how Henry is literally her dad 🤣 Also Henry is smack in the middle of these two emotionally immature people being the voice of reason. That shot of Betty smiling at the dollhouse was so funny to me too. For a show that is very subtle with everything that was just gold.

Denisse Brito
>>118519744

I took introduction to business class once, and we had a whole section in how to do business with people from other countries. It was a really cool section too because we noticed a lot of differences in between cultures. Like in Latin American when you get into a taxi it would be rude for you to seat in the back :) Or like if an American person gives you a present they want you to open it there, or in front of everyone in the party. Outside of the US that’s rude, and it means that you’re more interested in the present than the person who gave it to you.

Denisse Brito
>>118559924

That was a great scene! And it’s also very true, sometimes is easier to open up to an interested stranger, and Faye proved it lol

Henrique Jambu

i know you hated him but i love ted cause of his smugness haha it's like he knows he'll never be don

Youtalkingtome
>>118564692

You nailed it right on the head. Betty and Don are so emotionally immature or broken that they behave like children.

Weird Magic

Originally airing on August 22, 2010, 'The Chrysanthemum and the Sword' is Episode 5 of Season 4 of Mad Men. It is the 44th episode overall and has an IMDB rating of 8.6, placing it as the #6 ranked episode of this season and #8 out of all the episodes shown so far.

sam bristow

Not condoning Roger but let’s step back a sec. It’s 1965 not 2023. The war is barely 20 years old at this point. The Japanese military was one of the most brutal of all time. Think of our 9/11 but a million times more traumatic for guys like Roger. It’s no different than if some blonde haired thick accented Germans came in the room to pitch BMW. It would be awkward for a WWII vet….Bad form by Roger but I do have an ounce of sympathy. He owned up to it but he clearly has demons from the war. (I love playing devils advocate 😂 )

sam bristow

Oh and once again I’m so happy to be watching my favorite show with you guys!

Youtalkingtome
>>118737819

I mean we get it but everyone else in the room wasn't acting that way. I really doubt Don acts that way towards Koreans. I know it's a different dynamic but still. There's having demons from war and just being flat out racist.