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The West Wing, Season 3, Episode 14 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-31 18:45:58
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Night Five

Files

Previews only

The West Wing, Season 3, Episode 14

Night Five

Comments

Peggy G

Not a spoiler, but this won't be the las time a certain subject is broached. Also, I love that they brought Stanley Keyworth back for this episode.

Pam Nail

- "It's fanaticism whether we call it that or not..." is a nice little riff on a very similar line from 1776, which was a huge influence on Sorkin. - I don't think Sam does anything wrong with regard to Ainsley. I'm glad he went to her and made sure he hadn't offended her, but she also was not the only person in earshot. It clearly bothered Celia, and as someone who's new and only there for a week, it's fair for her to be afraid that language she objects to might be directed at her next. I just wish Sorkin had leaned more on that and not turn Celia into a straw feminist and having her basically slut-shame Ainsley. - I love the little plot with Donna, if for nothing else that it gives her an idea of her worth, which I'm not sure she often gets in the bubble of the White House.

Balazs Foldes

Wow, your powers of prediction have not failed you, yet again! The sexism plot, IIRC, was a bit of a tricky and sensitive situation. Some of the audience WAS saying Sorkin was being sexist in his writing. So, he kind of tackled that question in this episode. Which was, probably, not the best idea. Because he had to set up the players, write the dialogue, and write the female characters involved. He had to come up with Celia to pose the arguments again Sam, or really, against Sorkin. Which can come off easily as strawman argument, making up a mistaken and wrong opponent against your arguments, then 'winning' against her. Anyways. I like this episode. Stanley and Bartlet is a great couple. Their conversation feels like a stage play, very well crafted. And I love the Arthur Miller story, I use it from time to time. :) The CJ plot - together with Donna - is also very cleverly crafted. As you say, you would naturally expect a different ending, and that's why it hits so hard. I think it's a little like the scene when Ainsley get hired in Season 2. When the president (Nzele, or something like that) from the Republic of Equatorial Kundu decides to return home, and be executed by rebels. It hits hard - and Ainsley sees that there are great things she can do in this White House. Similarly, Donna sees here now that there are great things she can do, or help Josh do in this White House. It's basically the thing that makes her decide not to accept the job offer. This job might not pay well, may go away also in a year (elections coming up), may be a bit of a dead-end job being an assistant. But, here she can do more good then in the private sector.

JVTrickypants

"Everything bothers me" is why Toby is my spirit animal.

Joy M

The thing is that in the workplace, for a woman to walk in (not knowing the relationships) and hear a man talk about another woman that way, sends a signal that this may be a hostile work environment. It also reflects poorly on Toby, Josh, Leo, and the President that this is how they allow women to be treated in the workplace. If you walked in on your first day and people were saying things that were disparaging about you or people of your religion, etc, would you feel comfortable there? I agree that Celia shouldn’t have laid it on Ainsley to feel the same way. I was recently promoted at work and was told by my immediate supervisor that he thinks I only got the position because I am female. He is the person who does my performance reviews. Do I report him to his supervisor or go to HR? No, he might retaliate and I’m in a probationary period and I need the money and health insurance. FYI: A few examples of behavior that could create a hostile work environment include: Repeated comments or jokes about a protected characteristic (e.g., race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity) Displaying offensive symbols or pictures. Threatening or intimidating behavior.

Max F.

I really enjoy this episode, or any excuse for more Stanley really, but it is a good episode. When I hear people say that Sorkin can't write women or is a sexist, Sam's exchange with Ainsley from this episode is what immediately pops into mind. I don't agree with either of thos statements, but if I saw this episode in a vacuum, I could see how someone might come to that conclusion. There is a nice parallel between Bartlett and Tony's conversations. Last episode, Toby was pointing out that Bartlett didn't want to annoy voters because he was trying to gain his father's approval and now he says that the Arab world will come around 'when we win!'. As Stanley points out, that will never happen, which is a lesson both need to take to heart. The next episode, Heartsfield's Landing, was the episode adapted as a special stage production prior to the 2018 election. I find the ways they adapted a TV episode for the stage to be very interesting and the cast didn't lose a beat. Definitely worth a watch if you have time.

Cosmic Slice

This isn't among my favourite episodes of the show although it's fine. Everyone asking if Stanley knew someone on the plane seems a little odd since he and everyone else (had they spoken to him) likely thought he'd be there to see Josh which is what Stanley thought too. It's not like anyone can feret information out of someone that they don't have. Solid episode but kinda sad all the way around... (but I am *really* looking forward to the next one!)

Jeff

So here's a statement that I never thought I'd hear in a "West Wing" reaction: "I don't blame Roy Scheider for 'Sharknado'." This is one of the many reasons why I love you guys.

Mithroch

The Billy storyline hits me hard these days. There was a UN specialist from my small town... from my sister's high school class... that was killed by rebels in the Congo. He was a man of peace and had for years walked into the jungle, unarmed, and persuaded rebels to surrender and come back home. Then one time he and his colleague didn't come back. Now I always get a little sad when I watch this episode.

shawn Johnson

Powerful men need to be told the truth. Stanley does an amazing job with Josh and the President.

Sardonica61

This episode isn't in my top ten, but I enjoy re-watching it every time. There's something cozy about it. I love about how it's all contained within a few hour's time, after dark, with less people than usual, less noise and bustle, confined to the offices and residence. And yet, important things are happening. Ainsley was played by Emily Proctor. She is around during two seasons of The West Wing before leaving to take one of the lead roles in CSI Miami. Sorkin has written many different types of compelling female characters. There are a few who puzzle me because I've never known women like them in real life. That would be Amy, Mandy, and to an extent Andy. But most of the female characters are complex and not at all cookie-cutter. Suppose Sam had said to Ainsley, "Oh wow! Looks like I pulled you away from a special night out. You look really beautiful!" I think Celia would have even had a problem with that because it is still Sam noticing and commenting on Ainsley's appearance. What if Celia had heard Mrs. Landingham said, "Ainsley, you look very beautiful tonight?" Is that also inappropriate? Are you ever allowed to notice a female coworker's appearance? Celia even criticized Ainsley herself for" letting her sexuality diminish her power. " Like Ainsley, I'm not sure what that even means. That a woman should never dress up or look beautiful? I feel like you can't win no matter what you do. And it takes the fun out of things. As for Toby aggravating Bartlett, it goes back to the two Bartlett's. It is a factor in the current election that Toby is working towards winning. Toby knows that Bartlett has a "once in a generation mind" and also that the President often hides his intelligence out of habit, out of a fear of offending, because he's been doing it since he was a kid. What he said to Bartlett was over the line, but very in character for Toby.

Arek Schneyer

And another thing about CJ's tripping on the treadmill- is that the only reason they had that there was because Alison Janey had done that 'tripping on the treadmill' bit before- and they wanted to have her do it again.

Cristy

Thanks for the shout-out. As you said so many great issues were covered in this episode and Ainsley is back! That scene with her, Sam, Charlie, and the others is interesting and also entertaining at the same time (Charlie doing lowkey funny is always a highlight for me). I agree with your thoughts on it. Celia has every right to say she's offended as the person who overheard the comment but she doesn't speak for Ainsley. I'm glad Ainsley got her right to reply as the remark was addressed to her in the first place. The only comment that bugged me a bit was Sam saying "She's a girl" in relation to Charlie's varsity-playing sister beating him at Basketball (rolls eyes). I also agree with your remarks about therapy and how The West Wing was ahead of its time as it wasn't really the done thing when the show was airing. Such a good episode! Thanks for another great reaction.

Aude M
>>121121877

I just wanted to add here that Billy is not the guy we saw a few episodes ago. Michaell O'Keefe was playing a character called Will Sawyer. We never see Billy Price. :)

Youtalkingtome
>>121102643

I'm glad they gave that to Donna. Her character is so important to Josh's character. Also yes, I wish the conversation would have gone a little differently but they didn't really go below surface level with it.

Youtalkingtome
>>121104671

I love Donna and anytime she gets a major part in an episode it makes me happy. I can't stop thinking about the Arthur Miller story. He's one of my favorite writers. It did feel like a play and just having these two great actors bounce of each other was wonderful.

Youtalkingtome
>>121117910

Yeah that's terrible and screw him for even saying that. I guess on this show we have the benefit of knowing these characters and knowing that they are indeed friends and that he meant it in a harmless way. Now, 20 years later and in completely different circumstances I can see how this would rub someone in the wrong way.

Youtalkingtome
>>121118859

We are absolutely planning on watching it once the show ends. We didn't know which episode they brought back but thanks for pointing out it's this one!

Youtalkingtome
>>121128065

Stanley might be the best TV shrink ever. I know Dr. Melfii on The Sopranos is the obvious choice but what Stanley has done in two episodes is genius.

Youtalkingtome
>>121133359

It was very in character of Toby, he obviously has nothing but respect for him and he was trying to give him the push that he needs. Also I knew I recognized Ainsley from somewhere but I didn't think it was CSI!

Youtalkingtome

Thanks for watching with us! I know, the "she's a girl" comment made me go SAM! Like you're trying to dig yourself out of the hole man lmao.

Weird Magic

A lot of the Sorkin complaints revolve around a story-telling device he likes to use, namely the "I need to give the audience background info so I'll use a character to be dumber than another character so they ask the question I need them to ask so the other smarter character can explain it to them and therefore the audience hears it" trope. What a lot of people have pointed out over the years is he trends towards making the dumber character a woman and the smarter character a man. In The West Wing Weekly Podcast they named this the "Donna-Tella", a pun both on Donnatella Moss' character name and because A LOT of times it was Donna who was the person that was not in the know. For me, it wasn't noticeable until it was pointed out, and...now it is. I don't think it was intentionally done like that, but it's another perception is reality situation. Originally airing on February 6, 2002, 'Night Five' is Episode 14 of Season 3 of The West Wing. It is the 58th episode overall and has an IMDB rating of 8.2, placing it as the #7 ranked episode of this season and #31 out of all the episodes shown so far.

Youtalkingtome
>>121272819

So with Sorkin he obviously has an incredible career. I think his writing has gotten better since 2010 and just continued crushing it since. I don't think his directing is nearly as good as his writing but the WW really helped him master his craft and he really evolved as a writer because of this show.

Luca Siracusa (Bob)

That is why I love Bartlet so much: every time something about his character is discussed, you always end up learning a lot, putting pieces together and developing a full design of who he is. Stanley's opening scene is so powerful and dark, almost like they're bringing him into Bartlet's mind. I can't tell you much more, but you'll love the next episode and I cannot wait for your reaction, it will be a colossal shot

jimmy2k4o .

It’s worth remembering Toby isn’t advocating infringing on anyone’s right to be Muslim He’s advocating for people in the Muslim world to have the right not to be Muslims, or to be gay, or for women to have equal rights. He sounds ugly saying it, but he’s saying that Muslims should have the same rights as Americans. I imagine myself as a person born in the ummah that doesn’t conform to traditional views. Like a gay person born in the west before modern days, scared and alone forced into silence to survive….id want people that have rights (religious/sexual/civil/moral) to argue for mine since I can’t. I understand why some people don’t like non Muslims calling for secularisation of the Muslim world. I don’t understand why it’s controversial or anything similar to say so. We’re calling for Muslims to lose the right to violate others’ rights for breaking Islamic law. Not for Muslims to lose the right to follow Islamic law themselves. As Toby says “we don’t respect the right to oppress others” With western rights Muslims can call for Islamic law and non Muslims can call for whatever they want. Both groups respected. With Islamic law, Muslims can call for Islamic law and non Muslims better not say anything against Islamic law or they’ll be killed. Someone once said when you practice a religion it’s personal, when you have that religion written into law so everyone has to obey, it’s now fascism. Western rights aren’t anti Muslim they just don’t treat Islam special, they treat Islam the same as all religions and no religion. Western rights are pro freedom and if western rights were anti Islamic or suppressed Muslims compared to anyone else, they wouldn’t be pro freedom and would fly in the face of what the west stands for. Great thing about the west is you can live however you want without the support, permission or even care of anyone else. You can live how you want, and say what you please, as long as you grant the same freedom to everyone else.

Scott Pearson Eberly

“Right or wrong, it’s inflammatory.” It was also 2002, a very, very different time my friend.”

Scott Pearson Eberly

It’s amazing I decided to rewatch The West Wing as an escape from the realities of the 2024 election. I’m watching this episode 10 months after you did, 52 days from the election and it’s getting crazier than you’d dare to even think. Our pets are being eaten in Ohio.