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Mad Men 2x09 Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2025-08-24 21:47:59
Edited:
2025-10-09 22:43:20
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Files

mad men 209

________________________ patreon - https://www.patreon.com/LMreactions twitter - https://twitter.com/LMreaction tv time - lola - skysstillblue, milena - oneofthe100

Comments

Taya

I will never speak ill of Betty. World's #1 Betty stan clocking in for my defend Betty shift!

bondbond53

Yeah I think Betty's character is a prime litmus test for internalised misogyny for me personally because when I was a teen and watched this show Betty just annoyed me. I couldn't see the nuance and why would I seeing this beautiful actress playing into what society expects of women. I was in my "not like other girls" phase without seeing WHY Betty is the way she is while only focusing on Peggy and Joan and the way they took control of their lives. Now I know, now I see and I LOVE Betty while getting frustrated with her circumstances

Eric Viola

Betty was just defrosting the freezer, putting a pot of boiling hot water in there makes it faster.

The Great Uniter

Yeah Betty got a ridiculous amount of hate when the show was airing. It wasn't Skylar White level because Mad Men just didn't attract the same sort of viewers but it was still pretty bad.

Jay Craig

This early into the show I simply cannot speak. If I speak…

Nina

At the time I remember reading stuff about January Jones (Betty) being hard to work with on set, I have no idea about the veracity of that and how much of it was exaggerated. I will say on a personal level, I like Betty, but January Jones' acting isn't my favorite.

bondbond53

When you think about a period piece like Mad Men you think of the way in which it portrays 60's America but you forget that inadvertently it also depicts what preceded this period. You'll notice throughout this show the scars that past wars have cast on the male characters. Not that there's a ranking of worst wars or anything but it must be so difficult to navigate such a modern contemporary lifestyle with a past of basically killing people in the most important human conflicts, such as WWII or the Korean War, which has shaped the 20th century. Comparing it to past conflicts, this dissonance must've been wild and the only way to cope with it was alcohol which was already widely accepted in society. Yes they're awful, misogynistic men but unlike the incels online nowadays they've really paid for their role as men and what society expects of them, which includes killing people in conflicts caused by other men and living with trauma for the rest of their lives

ClaMie71

Another commenter posted this about January Jones, but I have also read about her early time in Hollywood, and her being difficult to work with and coming across as better than others, even off the set, which were prevalent during the show's first few seasons. However, Mad Men co-star John Slattery (Roger Sterling) disputed this, saying it was just her approach to the role that other people did not understand. Some things might be true, while others are merely born out of an unfair reputation. I also remember that in 2007, when Season 1 premiered, and really throughout the series, so much of the media/interviews/late-night shows really pushed the male characters, especially Don. Despite Jon Hamm taking a stance against Don Draper's behavior, the media world and audience lionized him as this "alpha male". Watching this for the first time, years after the release and without the media buzz, really allows you to get a clearer picture of the intended, intricate, and interwoven stories throughout. Love the reactions so far!

Mark M

A couple of little details in this episode - the bag Jane gives Don at one point is from Menken's, displayed noticeably on the bag, and the name Don gives to the doorman, 'Tilden Katz', is her husband's name that he met with Bobbie in that restaurant. Little ways of the show reminding you he hasn't forgotten about her. Idk why but I love the Freddie story in this episode, and his night out with Don and Roger sending him off. It's just relatable and has a camraderie and a sadness to it. "There's a line Freddie, and you wet it". I agree Freddie's drinking is definitely linked to his time in the war here. The two are often linked on this show.

Erik D

Betty is a deeply complex character. She doesn’t deserve hate. Don’s treatment of her, along with her upbringing and the constraints of her society, all play a role in shaping who she is. At the same time, she can certainly be frustrating and is not entirely without fault.

Eric Viola

Don't forget the reference to his dad "Archibald Whitman"

Eric Viola

I think Don would've been less resistant to letting Freddie go if he wasn't also dealing with being thrown out by Betty.

Nina

Betty, after shit stirring: "keep stirring." Drunk Roger taking things a drunk Don said completely out of context and making a wild life decision based on it is the realest thing he's done yet.

JBK405

There was definitely bleed-over between people's dislike of Betty the character, and January Jones the actress. I still vividly remember this one internet comment I saw on the movie "X-Men: First Class", which she had a role in. I hadn't seen "Mad Men" yet so that was my first exposure to her work, and this one guy online was just disgusting in his personal attacks. It's been 14 years and I still remember how he described that she looked unwashed and that he could smell her through the screen. When I watched this show a few years later I thought about that remark every time she came on-screen. There have been references to Freddie's alcoholism throughout the show. Other characters have talked about his excessive drinking on several occasions, and sometimes we've seen him drinking when even the other characters remark on how early it is. One time he even got into an almost-fight with somebody because a meeting was running late and he had to stay instead of leaving to go to a bar. This has been building for a while. Joan in particularly empathizes with Marilyn Monroe because they're both women reduced to just their appearance. MM was actually a very intelligent woman, she was active in civil rights works for both gay rights and African-Americans, and was extremely talented as an actress. But she's just remembered as being pretty. And Joan sees that if she dies tomorrow, she'll only be remembered as the pretty woman in the office, despite there being so much more to her. And if she told anybody else that she wouldn't want that, none of them would understand why that was a bad thing.

Kendall Roy 🇧🇷

Betty isn't in my top 5 favorite characters on the show, but I've always felt empathetic towards her and it's always been clear to me how to read her character. But a lot of people haven't been able to, it's not quite Skyler level, but unfortunately, there's a lot of antipathy towards Betty too.

Kara

Your concern for Freddy was funny/heartwarming, but yeah we're just supposed to think he was blackout drunk. He was very sweaty and drinking in the scene + poured Sal an insanely large drink. Characters have made comments about Freddy's drinking in the past, we've seen a few signs: he drank a big orange juice + vodka for breakfast that we laughed at, he got very agitated when a meeting overran and he couldn't go to his fav bar for lunch. Sterling Cooper has a golden rule - you can drink as much as you like as long as you don't "cross the line". Old School Madison Avenue advertising firms had a double-edged reputation - they got drunk all day and partied all night, but they were also thought to be mega sloppy, a bunch of drunks falling over each other. This is very appealing to certain clients - you get to travel to exciting New York City, climb a big fancy skyscraper + party with fun guys. But the reality is people like Freddy - people whose habitual drinking becomes a problem, probably alcoholism yeah. While this becomes less popular as time moves on there's still a lot of normalised drinking in many places, countries, offices etc. The UK is still a big drinking culture, in my first job everyone would start drinking in the office as soon as the clock hit 5pm and then then we'd all go to the pub almost every day, insane behavior. I think this is a good episode to talk about a central theme of Mad Men, which is men returning from horrifying war. Anyone over the age of, say, 40, was expected to have served in the military - Roger hated Freddy at first because he thought Freddy was a 'coward' e.g didn't serve on the frontlines shooting germans in WW2. Freddy doesn't like to talk about it because it was presumably traumatizing. One of the many things Mad Men is about is this generation of people who went off to fight in Europe, in Korea and later in Vietnam, and came home broken and traumatized but were just expected to integrate into society and get on with things, "be a man". Most of the older people in the office are the same people we watched in Band of Brothers and other media, and the show portrays a generational divide between people like Freddy who perhaps are using alcohol to treat some unprocessed war trauma, and people like Pete (who Freddy mentions derisively here) who were born too late and too early to serve in a major conflict. Lola literally called that Jane was trying to get Roger as husband two episodes, we were all gagged but could't say anything lol. When they're giving joke names to the bouncer Don says his is TILDEN KATZ + everyone laughs but that's RACHEL MENKEN'S HUSBAND who he met earlier in the season lmfao, he's thinking about that name in that moment for some reason. Later with Roger he calls punching Jimmy "a real Archibald Whitman manouver", we can assume Archibald is Don's dad, he drunkenly name-dropped his father to Roger (and then played it off). This watch through is the first time I noticed that some of the girls in the casino were clearly styled after Marilyn Munroe (like lots of women at the time), the guys are being served drinks by the image of the starlet who killed herself. Duck's comments on Freddy help add context to his own struggles - he knows firsthand it doesn't help to enable an alcoholic. Lola mentions it but we see again Don's loyalty to a coworker and friend, Betty should get a job at SC maybe then Don would be loyal to her 👀 We know Freddy was at Sterling Cooper before Don and probably watched (and helped) him go from 'the new kid' to Creative Director, so Don's loyalty is doubly bittersweet + understandable. In their meeting, both Peggy and Don wish that Freddy could "just move forward" + have a "this never happened" moment but he cant because Pete told. It's not super relevant but Bella Ramsey is nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns fyi. Though in Milena's defence she regularly misgenders cis people 💀 Serbian to English is a trip 😌

Kara

she's in my top 5 italian-speaking characters on the show

Mahad Ali

It’s not hard to see why some fans didn’t like Betty, she has a “mean girl” energy to her. She is rarely nice to anybody who she doesn’t have to be nice to. She is even cold and mean to her own children. There is very little that is motherly about her. She comes off as completely joyless and self pitying. That doesn’t mean that she isn’t a victim of a patriarchal system and her philandering husband. Its just that she is a hard person to root for. Unlike Peggy. Regarding the actress, January Jones had a reputation for having very limited range. And some critics and audience members thought that was reflected in her performance. I think to a certain extent that is probably true. With the actress who plays Peggy, you can see a lot happening beneath the surface even when she has no lines. With January Jones, she is often just stone faced and i think another actress may have done a better job displaying the inner turmoil of the character. I wouldn’t compare the criticism of Betty and January Jones to the criticism of Skylar. That was just demented.

Kara

betty taking the phone off the hook so it doesn't ring when they inevitably call her from lunch 💀 diabolical girl

Julien

You're doing way too much. In season 2 ep 9, Betty is not a *potential spoiler*. It's frustrating having to say this shit because even my comment constitutes a spoiler but I need so many of y'all to learn to STFU.

Kara

I actually disagree, only because we've seem him be this intensely loyal to Mohawk Airlines when everything was fine*. It definitely focused him though for sure, like with the blood drive, he might have been less inclined to give Freddy a send off if he wasn't sleeping in a hotel.

Kara

we can know that betty got married to don when she was like 22 or something, and got pregnant very soon after. any criticism of betty must take into account that she has basically grown up as a 20s adult in these circumstances while don was ~8 years older.

Kara

You're a genius, I never noticed the Menken's bag. That probably subconsciously prompts him to think about Rachel and her new(ish) husband. It's interesting that Jane (a young fashionable woman) shops at Menken's, I guess their campaign worked lol. [edit] I just remembered that Jane is......... [spoilers?] lol that might be why.

Kara

I always take those reports with a grain of salt because they're often blind items with no evidence and there's multiple sides to every story right. Maybe she just didn't want to hang out and be best friends with everyone at her job e.g. Rep also breeds rep - if you're known as "difficult" then anything you do will be read through the "difficult" lens whether valid or not.

Kara

I wrote about it in my comment but 100%, this is a good episode to talk about it. for me its the specter that haunts the entire show - 2 generations of men trying to do 'normal society' when they witnessed horrors in Europe, in Korea, in the Pacific. All those guys in Band of Brothers who survived had to go home and get jobs and start dating, Freddy, Roger, Duck, they are those guys. And explains so much about why they think so little of Pete/Ken/Paul/Harry's generation etc.

Kara

"Fun" fact: most modern freezers don't require active defrosting, they run a partial defrost cycle overnight. that's why it makes a weird noise at like 2am or whenever. I remember we used to have to manually defrost the fridge every 6 months or so to avoid buildup (im not that old! we were just broke)

JojoPotato

I don’t think it’s a spoiler — she tells Roger she got her sweater at Klein’s in episode 7. I think we’re supposed to pick up on this and from getting the shirts at Menken’s.

Kara

@Jojo: observant "in-the-know" people could probably figure it out tbf yeah, but the girls (and me on my first watch) wouldn't be able to.

Haye Zeus

I think the criticism of January Jones is her limited range which actually works for Betty. She is supposed to be this tightly wound, stick up her ass kind of character. So she is supposed to be reserved and January Jones does a good job of that. The character of Betty is someone who I have a complicated relationship with. She is someone who I sympathize with, while also someone I would personally hate knowing. Can’t say more without spoilers, but let’s just say my sympathy for her kept getting tested.

Eric Viola

I was shocked when I heard during the run of the show that people disliked Betty as a character. I never understood it and always assumed it was coming from a vocal minority of weirdos who were judging her more harshly than other characters who can be just as awful at times. I have also heard in January Jones interviews that a lot of people would come up to her and say they feel bad or feel sorry for her character which I think is how most people feel.

Julien

@Jojo: The reason it’s not a spoiler isn’t due some other hint that 99% of viewers wouldn’t notice. It’s because it’s not important to the story at all. That’s why. Subtle hints absolutely would be a spoiler if what they hinted at mattered.

Jeff

are we really once again creating the environment where any criticism towards a female character/actor is automatically rendered a symptom of misogyny and irrational hate

Josip

yeah same with skylar from bb, some characters are just annoying, doesnt matter if theyre right or wrong

Jeff

it did get to deranged levels for skylar but criticism is always warranted

Kara

@Julien: It is important to the story, hence why it gets revealed later. Spoilers don't have to be plot critical. The writers choose when to reveal information (or confirm subtext as text) for reasons. Knowing that Don worked as a car salesman before we find out is a spoiler, you're not supposed to know that until the writers show you.

ClaMie71

Oh, I agree... but that works for both the "good reports" and the "bad reports"; we should take all of them with a grain of salt. Those reports, good or bad, existed, and I wouldn't doubt that they affected some people at the time when they were watching her on one of the most popular TV shows.

Kara

@Julien: You've made this much worse by replying. the girls have literally described Betty as "tragic" multiple times, for being trapped in a marriage with a liar and a cheat, for being stuck as a listless suburban housewife, for being used as a pawn in Don's work, for have mental health issues with the only outlet being a psychiatrist who tells her cheating husband everything she says

Gaboxxy

@Kara I agree, Don is pretty good at keeping his work life separate from his personal life (I mean, his whole characters is about compartmentalizing).

Gaboxxy

@Kara Julien is kinda hilarious. He always get super agitated at any comment that has even the slightest chance of semi-spoiling anything, but in doing so he basically confirms the spoiler every time instead of let it be vague. He's just always looking for an excuse to act bitter and ends up fucking up in the process.

Kara

@Gaboxxy: yeah i said this in a prev review but he reminds me of my step father who was the most loyal guy ever with friends and neighbours, but was lying to my mother the whole time in a very don way. "its a switch you can turn on or off" as Betty says

Kara

absolutely yeah. some of the "industry nice guys" turned out to be proven assholes or worse abusers

Gaboxxy

@Erin Skylar was definitely over-hated, but I hate how Vince and the other showrunners tried to retcon her as always fine and trying to gaslight the entire fan community that if anyone ever disliked Skylar they are automatically a misogynistic prick. She was definitely written to be neurotic and dominant in the first two-three seasons, a big part of Walter White "breaking bad" in the first place is that he felt emasculated by her overwhelming wife. Of course in later seasons W.W becomes so sociopathic and deranged that any flaw from Skylar becomes irrelevant by comparison, but to act that it doesn't make sense to dislike her is crazy imo.

Kara

@Gaboxxy: I consider this 'the acolyte problem' - I really didn't like Acolyte (star wars show) but you'll never catch me criticizing it in public 'non good faith' spaces because I don't want to be lumped in with actual racists and sexists lollll, its grim, culture war ruins everything

Gaboxxy

I would've never expect two Slavic people to act so concerned over someone being too drunk, but I guess I was just prejudiced lol

Gaboxxy

12:50 As a Psychology undegrad here: boredom kills, literally. You'd be shocked how much damage chronic, constant boredom can do to someone's mental health. That was precisely the life many of these upper class women from that time period had: constant boredom. They didn't even have many responsibilities within the household as they had nannies and house-help, so they spent most of their days inside the house doing basically nothing. They were denied any sense of purpose.

Mike

Tilden Katz! Shout out to Jane buying Don shirts from Menken's. The last few episodes are incredible, but I kind of think this episode is the first(?) example of Mad Men really finding its voice? The whole casino sequence has this live-wire madcap energy that the show really lives on. (Absolutely criminal to cut out Roger remembering the password on the way down the elevator, by the way.)

Gaboxxy

@Kara I get what you mean. Regarding BB specifically when it comes to that, if you dislike Skylar as character that's completely fine and that doesn't make you a misogynist. That said, if by season 5 you still have a deep hatred for her while unironically justifying and even praising Heisenberg as "the man", then you're probably just sexist.

Mike

Don is thinking about Tilden Katz because Jane buys him shirts from Menken's!

Mike

It's worth mentioning that, in the Jackie/Marilyn episode, the brat pack decided that Joan isn't a Marilyn. Marilyn is a Joan.

Erik D

Edited

Richard Ramirez

Honestly I was shocked they didnt know what she was doing.. :D especially from Serbia.. :D If they were from Dubai I would understand. :D But slavic n baltic people should know this.. :D Parents and grandparents had shity fridges.. :D :D :D

Mike

Freddy being "in charge of killing people" is such a perfectly glib affectation by Roger. The dudes were in capital-w War and the only way for them to reckon with it is black humour and heaping helping of bourbon. The show doesn't rub our noses in it, but the spectre of military service is so important to understanding these characters.

The Great Uniter

Criticism =/= Hate. They aren't talking about people that criticize Betty. They literally criticize her in this episode. They're speaking about people that have an irrational hatred of her which people did. If it doesn't apply to you, they're not talking about you. Lol, it's that simple. Jesus, men are fragile. Don't worry, that's just my "criticism".

Richard Welch

I do think Betty is overly hated especially at this point in the show. There are times when she warrants the criticism but right now shes just a lonely abandoned housewife

TylerNorCal

Tbf you guys have been pretty lenient and biased toward supporting Betty imo...(which is completely fine, we all have personal feelings) but she has mishandled and done very questionable things and is an extremely vain person...she deserves criticism along with all the chacraters. Ppl attacking or hating the actress is ridiculous tho...that's insane. I actually think you guys loving Pete is more shocking haha...he has very little rederming qualities and is very hateable, but I do agree his acting performance is amazing and that's what makes him hilarious. Very interested in hearing your opinions by the end of the series tho, all the characters have intriguing arcs.

Julien

@Erik, thanks!

Gaboxxy

@Kara It's like when the far removed cousin that they have seen 3 times in their lives asked your parents a huge favor and they would bend over-backwards to fulfill it, but then you'd ask for a 20 minute ride somewhere and they couldn't even be bothered lol. The reality is that when love is "unconditional" people take it for granted. They are much more worried about being perceived as good and reliable by friends or even strangers than by close family members precisely because they think no matter what they do they'll be loved regardless by the latter.

JJ

“ridiculous amount of hate” is pushing it. She definitely was the recipient of some criticism, but Betty is not comparable to Skylar at all in that department.

The Great Uniter

"It wasn't Skylar White level". Please learn how to read.

JJ

“…because Mad Men just didn't attract the same sort of viewers but it was still pretty bad.” I can read, I just disagree with the implication and the idea the “hate” they received are in any way comparable.

The Great Uniter

Jesus Christ dude. I didn't say they were comparable. I brought up Skylar specifically because they did and I was literally saying Betty's hate wasn't as bad as the hate Skylar got, but it was also bad lol. I'm going to assume English isn't your first language and leave it there because I don't know how you can read, "It wasn't as bad as Skylar" and interpret that as, "It was just as bad as Skylar".

JJ

My point is they don’t belong in the same conversation…. *I* said they weren’t comparable because… you compared them. Betty was liked/disliked in the way every TV character is, whereas Skylar hate had a life of its own. I simply disagree that it was “pretty bad”. January Jones as an actress is who people truly hated on, not Betty.

The Great Uniter

I'm done after this. Okay, if I say, "Getting shot in the face is worse than getting kicked in the knee", I'm not saying they're comparable just because I used them in the same sentence. My sentence, by definition, is stating that they aren't actually comparable. This is why I said you need to learn how to read because if you did, you'd know that already. I'm just gonna let you be mad, I really don't care about this that much. You can have the last word, I have a life to get to. You should try that sometime.

Jeff

@the great uniter yikes … i’m talking about how the two--fair criticism and hate--are often being equated with each other. because of the unhinged crowd, any fair critic often gets lumped in with the toxic ones. there was a comment which said not liking her is unconscious mysogny. lola said not liking the actress is childish. but both these cases can be argued fairly without hate. they are not clearly just irrational hatred

JJ

January Jones as an actress, not Betty as a character is what drew hate at the time. Inevitably the two were sometimes conflated, but Betty was generally liked or disliked subjectively in the way most TV characters are. Definitely not a Skyler White situation.

Eric Viola

I've always read his reaction to the guys making fun of Freddie as a result of Betty accusing him of doing something improper/immoral as well. Also the bit where he says "I don't want to throw him away", just sounds like he's projecting about not wanting Betty to throw him away. I still think he would've been loyal to Freddie if nothing was happening at home, but he wouldn't have come across this strongly against.

Michael M

Let me try walking though the minefield here: The only problem I had with the character Skyler was the early writing. If you haven't seen it in a while, rewatch Season 1 of BB. Skyler is by far the most one-dimensional character. It felt like her entire purpose as a character in Season 1 was to just say "pot is bad" over and over. And this aired in a time when many states were legalizing marijuana. I really think a lot of people jumped on the hate bandwagon because they saw her as an annoying, Karen-type relic of the past. But even when she got fleshed out as a character in Season 2s+, a lot of people just never got off the hate bandwagon.

Mike

I assume Lois is #1

cheech

wow freddy's brother is bill murray

PIG

No shit! Yeah he does kinda look like their older brother from Groundhog Day and Christmas Vacation. They all have the same candor and wry humor. Never knew that, thanks!

N M

Regarding your question of why Betty put the Bowl of water in the freezer: Housewives did that in the 1950s up until maybe the 1970s, because freezers used to build up a lot of ice/frost inside the freezer, and would build up so much ice/frost that there would be very little space for actual food to put in the freezer. Hence, every year or so, people would "defrost" their freezers with a hot bowl of water. It took some time for the hot water to melt the ice/frost, which would also cause a lot of melted ice, so that's why Betty puts the towel there as well. Modern day freezers no longer have that problem with frost/ice buildup.