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Mad Men 5x08 Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2026-01-03 23:50:05
Edited:
2026-02-18 21:39:59
Imported:
2026-06
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________________________ patreon - https://www.patreon.com/LMreactions twitter - https://twitter.com/LMreaction tv time - lola - skysstillblue, milena - oneofthe100

Comments

Jude’s IFs

Fun fact: the woman Pete has sex with is Pete’s actor’s real life wife. Also it’s rare for the Beatles to give shows rights to their songs but I’m happy they got a chance to cause it’s not the 60s without the Beatles

Taya

Just taste it!

Jason

Rory!

Dhaval Kale

Pete was (as usual) awful here but no comment about the manipulation of the insurer's wife (making the first move / heart on the window despite saying she wants him to move on)?

Scott

Yeah, having your license only means you drive to the train station here. I wish I could convey the nightmare of traffic now in the NYC/CT corridor. The horror! The horror!

Jamie (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-19 14:00 Tomorrow Never Knows cost them $250,000 over 10 years ago so more like $350,000 in today’s money. It was about 10% of the average Mad Men episode's budget. So yes, quite a lot!
2026-01-04 00:51

Jamie
>>198650081

The traffic is ungodly and then you get on Metro North and watch the cars go faster than the train. You would think service has improved but every time I watch Mad Men and they're on the train I wonder if it was actually faster in the 60s.

bondbond53

You can name the woman – Alexis Bledel – they know her already

bondbond53

With how obvious the small cracks in Megan and Don's relationship are, I do appreciate Don's conversation with Roger because it proves that he is self aware. It doesn't mean that he's going to 100% act on that awareness as usual but it makes his relationship with Megan so much more complex and indeed different than the one he had with Betty

Jude’s IFs

You did it for me 🤷🏽‍♀️

Jay Craig

"They're exactly what they're supposed to be. But they're not 'it'." Basically sums up the entire episode (Pete having everything he should want, his work life going well, 'perfect' home life and still unfulfilled and miserable, Megan with the job Peggy and Don both think is perfect for different reasons yet she's still unfulfilled and miserable. ) Had to laugh at the reaction when Beth drew the heart on the window. It's whatever, not gonna get into a big thing about it, but always makes me smile when conclusions are jumped to and then proven wrong.

JBK405

Just like the last episode showed us Sally come SO CLOSE to having a good evening with her father, here we see Megan & Don come SO CLOSE to having a healthy marriage. Meagan lies to Don, but she feels bad and confesses very quickly. Don accepts her explanation and doesn't suspect that the lie is covering up something deeper. He avoids paranoia, and doesn't even get angry at the lie itself. He listens to Meagan when she says she wans to quit, and supports her even though he doesn't understand her desire. SO CLOSE. But despite not showing his anger with Meagan, Don is internally exploding and so he lashes out at everybody around him. Don "supports" Meagan in quitting her job, but it's a thoughtless support that doesn't take into account the fallout of their actions (For example, Meagan should not have left that day. She should have helped the rest of the team transition to a new person, and finished what was on her desk). He's saying Yes To Everything instead of thinking about it and making an informed decision. So they avoid a fight right here, but it's still not open communication. I was shocked at Pete's awareness that Beth was intially only having sex with him to get back at her husband. He dropped it very quickly, and latched onto an obsession with continuing the affair, but even that brief moment of Seeing is more than I expected from him. Not related to the show, but the insurance conversation here always reminds of how proud I was a few years ago when my workplace got no-cost life insurance for all personnel. It's not a MASSIVE amount, but it covers every permanent employee and pays out to the beneficiary of their choice with absolutely zero cost to them. And when I hear how other companies do things like have insurance pay THEM, I'm glad that we cleared that low bar.

Jamie

It was a small moment but I like that we’ve gotten to the point where Peggy can straight up tell Don to shut up. In front of Ken and loud enough for others to hear, no less. And he did.

Scott (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-19 14:00 Trudy is an ICON and literally perfect, and that is wayyyyyyyy too much for Pathetic Pete so he has his moments of control and manipulation elsewhere. It's disgusting.
2026-01-04 02:32

Mike

Yeah, everyone in this plot -- except Trudy, obviously -- is cheating. "Pete is a creep", and rolling your eyes at his conversation with Harry, is not giving enough credit to the storyline.

Mike

Money well worth spending. Impossible to tell the story of this decade without featuring The Beatles, and using this *exact* moment, with Revolver and "Tomorrow Never Knows" specifically, where -- and I don't think I'm exaggerating -- the band *changed* music... It speaks so perfectly to the way that the world, and the country, and SCDP is changing, and how Don might be getting left a little behind.

Kev

Did they really need to know this immediately? Lbh fubhyq jnvg ng yrnfg hagvy gur raq bs guvf frnfba. Bgurejvfr gurl jvyy ernq vagb vg jura gnyxvat nobhg gur jevgvat.

Kara

AMC and the Mad Men crew paid $250,000 for the rights to use a Beatles track for 30 seconds, only to have the main character turn it off in disgust 💀 They're truly the greatest to ever do it... What happens when there's a misalignment between "what you're good at" and "what you want to be good at"? It's a tough one. As a dirt-poor traumatized self-made man, Don struggles to understand how Megan could ever give up something she has raw talent at. All he can see is her in ten years, as good or better than him. But it's extra interesting because Don's entire life is a misalignment. For the first time perhaps in years, Don is at peace. He's in love with a woman who loves him back and he isn't even cheating on her (wow!). He's still drinking but not as bad. Work is mostly good, the darkest points of S4 are in the rear view mirror, new clients arrive and leave happy. Pete got skis! Don even has enough introspection to say it himself: Why shouldn't Megan do what makes her happy? It's a tough question because the misalignment isn't between what Megan wants and what she has, it's ultimately between Don Draper and The World. As the sixties progresses, as fashions change, as Don's beautiful modern wife rocks up looking like a "Sixties Movie Star" from our collective imaginations, as clients request trendy songs and kids riot and Peggy rips a blunt in the office, there is Donald Draper. Still standing rock solid, drinking his Canadian Rye brown in a two-piece suit built like knight's armor. The tank man. Don's livelihood is built on knowing what people like and desire and perhaps for the first time ever, he feels that insight slipping away... how can he know what the average consumer wants when he doesn't even know what his own 26yo wife wants? And in the end, he turns the trippy new Beatles record off: it's not just a metaphor for Megan, it's a representation of the world moving past him towards something new and away from his folksy car-whistling nostalgia of "I wanna hoold your haaand". Don is a man built perfectly for 1960 but it's now 1966. Bonus Thoughts: PIZZA HOUSE! "I think she's good at everything, she's just one of those girls" has stuck with me... some people ARE just like that, it's cool. Joan settles into a nice background supportive role here, it's nice to see her sniping a little out of pocket again... she wants to gossip and be mad but Peggy is having a little enlightened moment, yeesh. Lola mentions the music picks being great and I think it's half true but also half that we're getting into an era where we still listen to the songs - Gimme Shelter, developed Beatles, Stan + Ginsberg even mentioned The Zombies etc. Sure Pete is a loser, but he's not the worst person Rory Gilmore has slept with.

Kev

My two readings about Beth: 1. It's Pete getting a taste of his own medicine. She initiates, gets her fix, says "I'm fine now" and dumps him. 2. V qba'g xabj vs nalbar unf bofreirq guvf orsber, ohg V guvax Orgu gb Crgr vf jung Enpury vf gb Qba.

Kev

Mad Men does cringe very well, and that "Just try it" (ahem, I mean "Just taste it") scene with Peggy and Don has to be one of the most unbearable ones for me.

Scott

I do wonder how much of Don's different response to Megan's dream of acting vs Betty's dream of modeling simply comes down to the context of each situation rather than an attempt to be better. With Betty's return to modeling in 1x9, it wasn't simply a case of her taking agency of herself and once again pursuing her dream. She was actively being used as a pawn by McCann Erickson in order to manipulate Don, and with Don valuing his sense of autonomy above all else, he relunctantly shut down Betty's dream. None of that exists with Megan's return to acting. Don isn't being put in a box or made to feel like a puppet on a string. It's much easier for him to try playing the role of the supportive husband in this case, even if he still doesn't like it.

Kev
>>198655369

I always interpreted that in conjunction with her rolling down the window to clear the heart, as, yes, her covering up the "evidence", but also as a message of "This was nice but it's over". The gloomy romanticism borders on being manic-pixie-dreamy, but the housewife context grounds it for me.

Mike

@Kev Ner gurl fgvyy ebyyvat qbja jvaqbjf ng guvf cbvag? Vg fher ybbxf ryrpgevp jura fur pybfrf gur jvaqbj. Abg gb trg nyy "gur oyhr qencrf zrna qrcerffvba" urer, ohg V'ir nyjnlf gnxra vg nf na vagragvbany ersrerapr gb gur ryrpgevp fubpx gurencl (naq Orgu'f zrzbel ybff) va gur svanyr.

Taya

Megan's outfits are so modern looking, I'd happily wear them today. How did we go from poofy 50's dresses to this in only a few short years?!

Taya

V nccerpvngr gur tveyf qrsraqvat Zrtna naq oryvrivat va ure, naq V haqrefgnaq jul gurl'q vagrecerg Wbna'f pbzzrag nf rail/ovggrearff. Ohg jung gurl snvyrq gb gnxr vagb nppbhag vf gung Wbna vf nyjnlf evtug nobhg gurfr guvatf yby. Ure vafgvapgf ner nyjnlf ba cbvag

Mike

Ybir gur Mbzovrf fubhg bhg urer. Nabgure UBS Znq Zra arrqyr qebc pbzvat hc j/ gurz va n srj frnfbaf.

Kev
>>198663746

Vs Wbna jnf ernyyl nyjnlf pbeerpg lbh'q guvax fur jbhyq frr gur qvibepr pbzvat, rfcrpvnyyl fvapr fur whfg fnj gur fgbel bs nabgure "frpbaq jvsr" cynl bhg ivn Wnar. Gur bgure guvat vf, V pbhyq or zvferzrzorevat, ohg lrf Qba tbg Zrtna gung pbzzrepvny va guvf frnfba svanyr, ohg qbrfa'g fur qb jryy nsgrejneqf naq ynaq ure bja Fbnc Bcren? Naq fur fnlf fbzrguvat nobhg trggvat bssref va YN. V guvax fur pbhyq unir qbar jryy, ohg fur fcvenyf va gur ynfg frnfba qhr gb ure crefbany yvsr juvpu raqf hc nssrpgvat ure cebsrffvbany yvsr. Rvgure jnl V guvax lbh'er zrnag gb fvqr jvgu Crttl zber va gung fprar; rira Wbna eryragf naq tenagf Crttl'f cerzvfr ("gura lbh unq rirel evtug gb or uneq ba ure").

Taya

That scene in the test kitchen is very Always Sunny coded.

Jamie
>>198663492

They really knocked it out of the park with Megan's mid 60s styling. I can just imagine Jessica Paré being the costume/hair/makeup department's own personal barbie doll.

Mike

Vg vf n yvggyr jvyq gb zr gung nalbar pbhyq jngpu gurfr svefg ~60 rcvfbqrf naq guvax "gung crefba punfvat gurve qernzf vf tbvat gb unir n unccl raqvat".

Mike

Cutting to the researcher, still standing there through that entire argument lol

Taya

@Kev, V zrna gung Wbna vf evtug jura vg pbzrf gb ure bofreingvbaf nobhg bgure punenpgref. "Nyjnlf" zvtug or na rknttrengvba, ohg fur'f irel funec. Zrtna jnf snvyvat nf na npgerff hagvy Qba tbg ure gung ebyr va gur pbzzrepvny, juvpu urycrq ure trg gur fbnc bcren. V graq gb nterr jvgu Znevr gung Zrtna unf na negvfgvp grzcrenzrag ohg vf abg na negvfg. Fur frrzf gb or qrprag rabhtu ng npgvat ohg abg cnegvphyneyl gnyragrq. Naq fur qbrfa'g unir gur granpvgl naq ehguyrff qrgrezvangvba gb fhpprrq ng nyy pbfgf, naq rnfvyl pehzoyrf jura snprq jvgu punyyratrf naq erwrpgvba. V'z abg ungvat ba Zrtna ogj, V YBIR ure punenpgre, naq V guvax gurfr synjf ner jung znxrf ure fb vagrerfgvat. Fur'f abg Crttl 2.0, npgerff irefvba, juvpu V guvax gur tveyf ner rkcrpgvat/ubcvat sbe.

Kev

If your response is you can write what you want then I can also write what I want because apparently nothing means anything.

tilden katz

Matt Weiner must've met some guy like Pete when he was younger, and ABSOLUTELY hated that guy. "How can I make this guy worse" is how he went about writing that character. It's boring. Makes out with a guy's wife in his living room, while he's in the house. WHO DOES THAT???

tilden katz

Manic pixie dreamy. LOVE that.

Mike

One of my absolute favourite episodes, maybe even my favourite, depending on the day. The "Tomorrow Never Knows" moment is still electrifying -- both for what it means narratively, and as a viewer who spent most of S4 and S5 wondering how they were going to handle The Beatles when they could never in a million years play their music on the show. (The show played footsie with the question in S4 with the "Do You Want to Know a Secret?" cover, and again this year with Don whistling "I Want to Hold Your Hand". Of course this episode would feature a conversation about how impossible it would license their songs. $250K well spent.) I think it's really fascinating how the show has dramatized the importance of music this season -- first with mission to sign the Rolling Stones, and now with Don outright asking why clients care so much about using pop music in their commercials -- because I think you can feel that same shift in how the show itself uses music cues. All the way back to "Band of Gold" in the premiere, Mad Men has used popular music (with an *almost* perfect devotion to period-appropriateness -- I see you The Decemberists) to underscore important character moments and key political and cultural milestones, but the way that pop culture has bled more and more into the narrative and fabric of the show, to the point that we're now getting stories about whether the main character is "made for these times" (to borrow a phrase)... Maybe it's just that "Satisfaction" and The Beach Boys are more famous and recognizable than Bobby Helms and Perry Como, but the needle drops feel bolder and more expressive than they did in the buttoned-down early seasons. And it makes sense, because the explosion of pop culture (and the Beatles especially) in the decade is just one of those cultural forces that you *have to* explore if you're going to write about the 1960s. On a totally unrelated note: Vf vg zl xabjyrqtr bs gur erfg bs gur frnfba pbybhevat zl bcvavba, be ner gurl ernyyl haqre-ernqvat gur Crgr fgbelyvar urer? Gurer vf n ybg zber tbvat ba guna "Crgr fxrrif ba Ubjneqf jvsr", naq vg'f abg rfcrpvnyyl fhogyr -- bhgfvqr bs Orgu'f zragny urnygu ceboyrzf, V thrff, gubhtu V guvax rira gung abgr vf cerggl cebzvarag va gurve nsgre-frk pbairefngvba nobhg gur cvpgherf bs gur Rnegu. Ohg lrf, fur *vf* yrnivat uvz ba gur ubbx, naq cynlvat hc gur "ab Crgre, jr pna'g!" bs gur fvghngvba. Crgr vf ybbxvat sbe fvghngvbaf jurer ur pna srry cbjreshy -- ohg fb vf Orgu, naq fur sbhaq bar. Znlor chggvat Uneel va gung fprar jvgu Crgr gb pbasvez uvf (lrf, irel gbkvp) ernq ba gur fvghngvba jnfa'g n tbbq fgbelgryyvat pubvpr, orpnhfr jr xabj jung xvaq bs punenpgre Uneel vf?

Kev
>>198669182

V ybir gur Orgu fgbel, fb V jnf nyfb nagvpvcngvat guvf, ohg V qb guvax V fnj vg nf whfg nabgure Crgr purngvat fgbelyvar hagvy yngre. V rira jbaqrerq haqre n cerivbhf ernpgvba vs gurl jbhyq frr vg gung jnl hagvy gur RPG erirny naq fhofrdhrag ivfvgngvba. V jbhyq yvxr vs gurl ernq vagb Orgu'f punenpgre zber, nf qrfcvgr shgher xabjyrqtr V qb guvax fur'f ravtzngvp naq gurer'f zber gb ure hcsebag guna bgure jbzra Crgr unf unq nssnvef jvgu, ohg bu jryy. V qba'g guvax vg'f n snhyg bs gur jevgvat, naq V qba'g guvax vg'f YZ abg orvat noyr gb frr vg rvgure. Fbzrgvzrf qvfphffvbaf/creprcgvba pna or vasyhraprq ol jung lbh guvax be fnl va gur zbzrag, yvxr V'z fher vs bar bs gurz unq ahqtrq gur bgure va gur qverpgvba bs nanylmvat Orgu gurl jbhyq or noyr gb unir fbzr guvatf gb fnl, ohg vg whfg qvqa'g unccra. Jura fur arkg pnyyf uvz naq fnlf gb zrrg, gurl jvyy cebonoyl fnl fbzrguvat nobhg ure orvat haunccl naq gura pbasvezvat gung jvgu gur "V'ir orra srryvat oyhr" fghss. V yvxr lbhe ernqvat ba gur cbjre qlanzvp, V abgrq va bar bs zl pbzzragf gung vg qbrf srry yvxr Crgr trggvat n gnfgr bs uvf bja zrqvpvar.

Kara

A small extra note but The Beatles rights holders are extremely selective with what they license, it's not just the money issue. Not only do you have to pay shit loads, they get approval over the scripts and will reject anything that doesn't fit their vision for how Beatles music should be used in media etc. That's why you don't hear Beatles tracks everywhere on TV and ads even when brands and streamers can afford it. It's really interesting that they signed off on this when it's kinda "negative" (arguably positive overall, a sign of changing times etc) - whoever did is smart for seeing the vision, you can imagine a stupider person being like "we're not signing off on sexy Don Draper hating the Beatles" lol.

Mike

@Kev V erzrzore cvpxvat hc ba ~fbzrguvat~ va gur zbzrag, ohg znlor V'z jebat. V whfg purpxrq n srj pbagrzcbenel erivrjf naq vg ybbxf yvxr Rzvyl Fg. Wnzrf ng gur NI Pyho anvyrq vg (anghenyyl) va ure erpnc bs gur rcvfbqr: "Crgr’f jvyyvat gb guebj vg nyy njnl sbe n fbzrjung zlfgrevbhf jbzna jub frrzf gb unir fbzr frevbhf zragny urnygu vffhrf. Ubj zhpu bs guvf vf whfg Orgu cynlvat gur ebyr fur xabjf Crgr jnagf ure gb cynl? Fur fnlf rneyl ba gung zra unir orra jngpuvat ure fvapr orsber vg jnf nccebcevngr, naq fur boivbhfyl xabjf ubj gb znavchyngr Crgr’f tnmr, fb gung ur’f ba gur ubbx ohg hanoyr gb trg jung ur gehyl jnagf. (Fur qbrfa’g pbzr gb gur eraqrmibhf ur frgf hc va n ubgry ebbz.) Fur orpbzrf yvxr uvf Qnvfl Ohpunana, fbzrbar jub vf whfg bhg bs uvf ernpu naq fraqf uvz whfg rabhtu ebcr sbe uvz gb jvyyvatyl gvr uvzfrys hc. Fur’f fgevatvat uvz nybat, ohg ur’f nyy gbb jvyyvat gb or fgehat. Orgu frrzf obgu frevbhfyl qrcerffrq naq n yvggyr rkpvgrq ol gur vqrn bs univat Crgr obhapvat nybat oruvaq ure, nyy gbb unccl gb unir gur ubbx guebhtu uvf yvc." Vapvqragnyyl, V ybir gur Qnvfl/Tngfol pnyy-bhg. V fnj orybj gung lbh pbzcnerq guvf eryngvbafuvc gb Qba & Enpury. Qba vf gur pyrne Tnfgol nanybthr ba gur fubj, fb bs pbhefr uvf irefvba eryngvbafuvc vf fhpprffshy (ng svefg) jurernf Crgr, Qba'f snvyher bs n sbvy, pna oneryl trg uvf bss gur tebhaq. Gur zbzrag jurer Crgr ivfvgf ure va ubfcvgny vf bar bs zl snibhevgr va gur frnfba. Vaperqvoyr, fnq cresbeznaprf ol obgu bs Oyrqry naq Xnegurvfre.

Mike

@Jamie What do you mean? Don't the actors have to bring their own clothes?

Śéáń

So strange to see Mr Belding from Saved By The Bell pop up in this episode as the Cool Whip guy

Nina

Heartbreaking: Worst guy you know doesn't get to have the affair he yearns for.

Dhaval Kale

Yeah this is sort of what I’m driving at, it’s clearly not a question of lack of observation as they’ve shown throughout the channel they’re amazing at observation and have really good insight into what’s happening. So either they’re somehow specifically refusing to comment on these moments, or they’re blind to these moments, and either case is just interesting to me haha

Darrach

It makes for a phenomenal needle drop… but I did have to wonder why Megan would tell Don to start with the final track on the album. Surely he’d find the first track Taxman a lot more palatable and easy to get into. I just don’t get people who listen to an album out of order for the first time I guess lol

Mark M

Shame Alexis Bledel's role was spoiled by the thumbnail. Pete and her storyline is meant to reflect a role reversal, with Pete taking on the role of the 'other woman'. His conversation with Harry illuminates that feeling of being used and powerless we see in some of Don's lovers. Maybe also highlighting the 'changing times' we see in Don's storyline. The nuance gets lost somewhat because of Pete's desperation and generally unpleasant nature. I mentioned it in Signal 30, but I'm not a huge fan of Pete's increasing humiliation and sliminess this season. It's disappointing to be invested in a character despite their bad qualities, only for them to keep going to the extent that I've completely checked out. I still enjoy the plotlines and the acting. I get why they did it, it is a logical continuation of his character. I just don't enjoy it.

tilden katz

The highlight of the episode is Peggy telling Don to shut up. Elisabeth Moss should've won the Emmy for this episode. I'm still waiting to have someone explain to me what Don has done this season. The show has no center because of it. Storylines that go nowhere. I mean WHAT is Ginsberg? Pete is bored, sad, for apparently no reason at all. Lane punches the shit out of Pete and promptly disappears for 3 episodes. Its a disjointed, unfocused season, with Don on his way to another failed marriage as the feature??? Hooray. Meanwhile the women grow more saintly, and the men are resolutely determined to break the Guinness world record for behaving like animals.

Jamie (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-19 14:00 I feel like I could write this under 3 different ongoing threads so I'll just put it here as it's own thing: There is a lot of pre-known character bias going into the Pete thing - we know him as being a creep so that’s our default assumption going into every scene. We don’t know who Beth is, so we can’t judge her character as accurately. I imagine if the scorned housewife in question was Betty, a character we know well, and a rando named Pete appeared in her life and she decided to take advantage of it to get back at her cheating husband, etc, it would be encouraged even. But we just met Beth so it’s like “why is this beautiful woman into Pete of all people? Why is he coercing her?” And by "we" I guess I mostly mean LM, though I suspect many people must see this episode the same way. Even though I think it’s obvious what she’s doing (the window heart confirms this), maybe there is a bit of a writing flaw if some people boil this episode down to just Pete being a scumbag and it being unimaginable that someone would sleep with him. I think the Harry scene specifically was overkill on "isn't Pete the worst?" when they should've been driving home Beth's point more. I love subtext, but maybe this scene undoes it?
2026-01-04 16:10

tilden katz

Tomorrow Never Knows isn't exactly the catchiest tune. It was the avant-garde's preferred track on Revolver, so a poser like Megan would be drawn to it. She could've told Don to listen to Eleanor Rigby (an actual great song) first, instead.

Darrach

Tomorrow Never Knows is a brilliant cacophony, but it took me a while to really appreciate it and I’m a big Beatles fan

Jamie
>>198695286

I think the “disjointed” nature of Season 5 is specifically why it’s so many people’s favorite. Every episode is sort of its own thing, and we are getting a lot of characters and situations that don’t always involve Don. What would you want Don to do that he’s not doing? He’s in his honeymoon phase. He’s cruising. Ginsberg is a great character! What’s the problem there? There’s lots of reasons Pete is bored and sad but we don’t have to rehash those in depth (American Dream disillusionment, toxic masculinity leading to perceived emasculation, you know.. the central themes of Mad Men). I like that Lane disappears for a few episodes (or whoever’s turn it is to disappear.. didn’t we go many episodes without Peggy a couple seasons ago? And we haven’t seen Betty since the beginning). MM could very much run into the character bloat problem if we had to follow every storyline all the time. I don’t think the women have gotten more saintly. Peggy just cheated on her boyfriend. Megan’s mom just cheated on her husband. Beth just cheated on her husband and played a game with Pete (deserved or not). Betty is still Betty. What we know of Megan is pretty middle of the road. Unless just not having a terrible flaw means being saintly. Joan is the only one who is usually given a halo effect. The only man who has gotten worse is Pete. Don is Don (until the Howard Johnson's episode, I would say this is an improved version of Don. He hasn't even cheated!). Roger has been on an upswing. Ken is great. Ginsberg is oddly sweet. Stan’s comments have all but dried up. Lane has arguably gotten worse but again we haven’t seen enough of him to make this a point. I’m genuinely curious on your thoughts on what you would want to happen.

tilden katz

How about Don working? Like a full day. 4,5, 6 drinks worth of a day's work. Sweating it out, and figuring where the campaign goes. Don chasing Megan around the apartment was downright scary, and I'm not dainty. Just cause Don hasn't stuck his thing, in another woman's thing, doesn't make him a better person. He treats Megan like a beautiful thing he owns, while thinking he is being enlightened. Happy Don is BORING Don. Sorry. His ersatz angst is the shows fuel. It's where most of the great dialogue comes from. Megan has not produced one memorable line, and she is now positioned in the center of the plot. Downgrade. But, she happens to be "good at everything". Really? Instead of the magical negro, we getthe magical brunette, I guess. You gave very valid reasons for Pete's malaise, and I don't buy any of them. I'm too dense to see where Pete feels entitled to feel so bad? I may be guilty of looking at it with 21st century eyes, but......... those reasons aren't good enough for me, for him to be detonating a bomb in his rectum, and basically become a sociopath. It's a device of Matt Weiner pinning a plot crime on the man, instead of the man organically creating his plot. It just feels FORCED. MM to me is about Don and Peggy's relationship. Everything else is secondary. It's unspoken, rarely visited, and that's perfect. The love they have for each other is the most real thing on the show. It never has to be sold, or told. It's UNDERSTOOD. If Don isn't available at work, that's less opportunity to see them in the same bowl. Ginsberg is an adjunct comedy relief guy. Does everything out of his mouth have to come across like the tossed out notes of Woody Allen's comedy routine? Again, he feels forced. Although, I very much appreciate the bon mots. Roger still getting by on greasy charm. He's the best written character on the show, but he's still a to the Manor Borne entitled ass. Banging another man's wife at the biggest party of the year? That's Page 1 of the sleazebag's how to book. I love him. Harry? Guess Weiner ran out of bilge to write for him, so he has been kept out of firing range. My problem is Megan. She's a cypher, who isn't too interesting, and was exposed by her father as a poser who wants the struggle, but doesn't want to commit. Way less Megan, more Peggy. More Joan. Pete is unrealistic in his monstrosity. Season 5 so far feels like a soap opera. Far beneath what this show should be.

tilden katz

Love your commentary. Tomorrow Never Knows is an excellent track. It's probably better than I think it is. Tomorrowland is the episode Don falls for Megan, and TNK is the song that confirms his incompability with her. When I first got Thriller, I didn't listen to the album in order. You know I had to listen to Billie Jean (side 2, track 2), and Beat It (side 2, track 1) first. LOL

tilden katz

Maybe the rights holders should've been more demure when Nike asked to play Revolution, over their Just Do It campaign. Vomit.

Biberius Caldius Mero

Regarding the title, since you were wondering, in the New Testament (in John) Lazarus is the guy that Jesus brings back from the dead.

tilden katz

We know why they are 'blind' to these moments. But, we can't say it, or we'll be canceled.

Scott

The main problem for me is that I don't think Beth gives off any type of sexual hints while they're in the car. I think the read on this episode would be more balanced if Beth had even simply given Pete a knowing look as she exited the car.

Scott

It appears as though Pete had already gotten out of his car before Beth even walked through the door. I mean, he enters the house within like 1 second after she does lol I just think there needed to be some tweaks to the writing & direction. This episode had the same director as the infamous au pair episode, so it seems to be a pattern.

Sebastian

She asks him to play Tomorrow Never Knows because it's new and interesting and she wants him to see why The Beatles are considered new and interesting. More than that though, the thematic point of the whole scene is that Don feels alienated and out of his time. Having Megan go "Check this one out, it's an easy entry level song to get acquainted with them" and Don go "Huh yeah that's kinda cool" would make for a pretty weak ending.

Darrach

I understand the thematic significance of the track, obviously. It’s just an odd way to listen to an album in real life was my observation.

Thomas Fahey

The song is from John Lennon's Tibetan Book of the Dead phase. I would bet that Roger gets it. Don is so unhip.

Darrach

With his new-found appreciation for matters psychedelic? I’m sure

Thomas Fahey

Many scenes in this series remind me of a book, Games People Play (1964) by Eric Berne. I wonder where Matthew Weiner gained some of his insight into human behavior from that period.

whit anderson

Praying that Heated Rivalry is on your guys radar🙏

Sami

I have never felt sadder for Don than in this episode.

Sami

"how can he know what the average consumer wants when he doesn't even know what his own 26yo wife wants" While that may be true, I can’t put the blame on him. No one saw Megan pursuing acting again, and any other man wouldn’t have known either. She was good at advertising and had mentioned to Don many times that she gave up on acting long before they met. I don't blame her for choosing her career, but I can’t stop feeling sorry for Don; just as he finally had a stable year in a long time, he is facing another major change

tilden katz

Your response is beyond anything I can muster. I am not a well adjusted person, and Pete's 'struggles' still befuddle me. If he's a proto-incel, or whatnot, that would classify him as a danger to others, and himself. Incels are thisclose to being labeled a terrorist group. Pete so far this season has....... unsuccessfully done the Lolita thing in Signal 30. Basically, called his respected business partner a homo to his face, out loud, in front of the other partners, and just laughed, and laughed. Essentially forced himself on a married woman in her living room. How many times has he done that? Cheats on his wife, with a prostitute, no less. Rats out Ken to Roger, because his widdle feelings are hurt, cause he doesn't have the talent to be a writer. God knows what Pete does 'offscreen'. Then has the unmitigated gall, to declare, "I have nothing". When he has so much of everything, that it borders on the obscene. I don't like Megan, not because she isn't a pleasant person. She's dull. She doesn't deliver the razor sharp dialogue of sinister silkiness, that the other characters can say in their sleep. Basically every line Joan says is quotable. The last person who you'd want to be on the receiving of a tongue lashing from is her. I fail to see what Megan adds to the narrative. Even a dumbass like Harry has delivered memorable lines. Don is better than we think. I think he has more good qualities, than bad. Don's suffering is substantial, and not something done for show. He feels deeply, but can't show it, cause it's impolite to bring attention to yourself. Don can be fascinating for 7 seasons of misery. There's so much there.

Mike

"Lady Lazarus" is a Sylvia Plath poem about death/suicide and rebirth, published posthumously (after Plath's own suicide) in 1965. The final lines definitely feel applicable to Megan's reinvention, and her rejection of Don's dream for her future in advertising, in the episode: I am your opus, I am your valuable, The pure gold baby That melts to a shriek. I turn and burn. Do not think I underestimate your great concern. Ash, ash— You poke and stir. Flesh, bone, there is nothing there—— A cake of soap, A wedding ring, A gold filling. Herr God, Herr Lucifer Beware Beware. Out of the ash I rise with my red hair And I eat men like air. Cyngu onggyrq qrcerffvba nyy ure yvsr naq jnf gerngrq jvgu ryrpgevp fubpx gurencl, fb gurer'f nabgure fvtavsvpnag cnenyyry gurer jvgu Orgu. Naq bs pbhefr gur ersreraprf gb fhvpvqr pbagvahr fgnpxvat hc: Va nqqvgvba gb Qba qenjvat gur abbfr n srj rcvfbqrf ntb, urer jr'ir tbg gur pbairefngvba nobhg Crgr'f vafhenapr cbyvpl, gur rzcgl ryringbe funsg, naq gur Flyivn Cyngu ersrerapr va gur rcvfbqr'f gvgyr. Onq arjf sbe Ynar nurnq...

Eric Viola

I think it's easy to think it's easy for Don to be unaffected/unconflicted with Megan wanting to go in a completely different direction with her career. I think it's totally human to want your partner to be into something you're into. Megan did initially indicate she wanted to try and pursue copywriting and when she succeeds at it and you see your partner excelling and something you're passionate about, it can't not hurt when they suddenly reject it completely (in a way rejecting you).

mundanelotus

I finally caught up to the reactions after binging the past seasons and now I join the painful wait for the next upload 😓

Mike

Beth talking about her childhood during the drive home is definitely meant to read as oversharing, vulnerability, and "inviting" Pete into her emotional space. Even accepting the ride home in the first place was overfamiliar. (Imagine Don's reaction circa Season 2 if he heard that Betty did this.) Then she hits him with the "I don't even think [Howard] would care..." before getting out of the car and leaving her front door open behind her. Maybe Pete was jumping to a conclusion. But it was the right conclusion.

Sebastian

I don't understand your point about Pete. The entire core conflict of Pete's character IS that he is unable to see how lucky he is, because he's emotionally wounded in a way that makes him self-centered and have major issues about his own masculinity. Do you want the show to just be about well-adjusted characters living healthy lives? Apparently not, because you also complain about Don being happy, and not having an arc this season, when his plotline this season is being in a new, for-the-most-part happy marriage while cracks start to appear. Is he going to be able to hold it together? Can he handle that his new wife is her own person with her own, often conflicting wishes? Has he learned from his previous mistakes? It just feels to me that you're sitting on some pretty deep-seated stuff about manhood yourself, and projecting a little bit onto the show as if it's attacking you personally.

Sebastian

Trudy is excellent, but to be fair to Pete, as the girls said, he has a huge wounded bird complex. And I think that's why he feels the disconnect with her. Because she's not wounded inside the way he is, and that leaves a gap between them.

Sebastian

I don't think anyone's going to cancel you for posting in a closed Patreon comment section, man. Maybe the girls are a little biased towards the female characters because they're female themselves. That doesn't mean it's Feminism Gone Mad.

tilden katz

Pete does not have a reason to be unhappy, whereas Don does. Don is much more interesting in the wee small hours, than when basking in the glow. Pete should be happy, even if he's a sniveling little prick. His wheenyness (I invented that word) is actually interesting. He's in the strange position of being a silver spoon kid, who is actually an overachiever. Married way up. Made partner at a firm, where he is at best, tolerated by most of his colleagues. Pete's problem has no name. It's banal. He's fucking up,....... just because? Being unpleasant for no reason. It's dispiriting, not compelling, to watch. Why am I spending time to watch him, when I don't care about his never ending 'problem'??? Questioning somebody's manhood is the stuff of keyboard warriors. I don't know why you brought that up.

tilden katz

Love your response, it's so precise. I've asked myself many times why I watch this show, that drives me to depression. I'm a total sucker for spoken word, great dialogue reduces me to a puddle. Much like the phonies who say Citizen Kane is not merely a movie, it is CINEMA. Mad Men to me is not merely a well written show, it is LITERATURE (with visuals.) Don hates himself, and is carrying around a false identity, that can get him thrown in jail. I don't understand the fixation with therapy, as being the logical conclusion to seeking 'help'. Psychoanalysis, "that awful science" as Jung famously described it. There are other ways to make yourself better. You're correct, Pete has every right to feel malaise if he wants. With him, its just not 'earned' (?) and not remotely interesting. Let's call him an incel. What's the remedy? Stop thinking life owes you anything, in their case women 'owing' them sexual attention. Find a hobby, read an actual book, develop a marketable skill, buy some decent clothes, go to the gym, clean your room, blah blah, blah. Done. Pete can exercise if he feels like a runt. He can develop a hobby like learning to work with his hands so he can fix a leak, and feel more competent, dare I say, manly. Pete's solutions aren't miles away. Don............ He doesn't have a great wife, he thinks he does. Don's actual wife is Rachel Menken, but she's married to me. Don left the pictures out of Pandora's box at the end of The Gypsy and The Hobo. Is it that easy to leave his self-hatred behind, and just toss it, and move on? When does he stop feeling like a fraud, which he still actually is? Ultimately, what will let him finally forgive himself for all the pain he has caused to himself, and the collateral damage it causes? Don's got a lot of problems.

tilden katz

Don the whore child, has been loved by whom? Betty? She loved an image, like he did with her. Megan. Please. Two very good looking people who work with each other, hooked up, cooked up 'love', and voila. Anna. And how did he come to know her? Getting caught in a lie. Under what secure footing does Don plant his feet firmly on the ground and say, " I am wanted here. LOVED." Nowhere, but his children. But, he doesn't shower them with love, because he wasn't shown an ounce of affection for the first 18 years of his life, and perhaps much more. Thay Pete has first world problems, doesn't automatically diminish his wounds, make them not legitimate. But, Pete ACTIVELY wallows in his 'despair', that, more than any heinous act he commits, is what is truly disgusting about him. He wants the mental masturbatiom of woe is me. My response is, I don't give two fucks. Don......tries. Somewhat. Don is searching for the green light at the end of the dock. Like Charlie Kane, all he ever wanted was to be loved. By somebody, anybody. Anna is gone. Don adrift, swam to Megan as an anchor. The beat goes on. Don is always against the current, trying to swim away from his past.

Dante

They are pretty much the most intelligent and observant reactors out there but this is the one area they've always had a blindness for regardless of the show. Preconceptions and biases are a hell of a thing to overcome. It's just one of those things you get used to and come to expect from them after long enough. (This is not meant as a slight towards them they're still the best reactors imo)

tilden katz

You may find it ironic, but deep down I like Pete. I'm of the mind that he is more sheepishly polite boy, than the twerp 'badass' he loves himself to be seen as. He has something of a sense of humor. He presents a polished presence. He is good at his job, and he doesn't mind knowing that his wife is a Bugatti, and he's a Buick. Season 5 was what put me over the edge, and me want to quit MM. The sludge became too much.

Sebastian

I think that's exactly what's so frustrating about Pete. He's a better person deep down than the shithead he keeps trying to present himself as. He's actively repressing his good sides in order to be a worse man, because he's so insecure that he thinks his sensitive side is weakness.

Mike

Finally broke down after this reaction and started watching ahead. Episodes 509 and 510 down already.

Kara

At least it's 2 a week, unlike some channels haha

walder slayyyyy

I love watching this show with you two so much 🥹 This is my favourite series of all time, and the best thing is that we're over halfway through season five and so many of my fav episodes and moments are still to come. Eeeekk!!

tilden katz

What? I've never noticed that.

tilden katz

Thank you, for that Kara. Good on Apple records.

Julien

They were not understanding to him at all. We the audience suspected that Megan wanted to move on for an episode or two now. But from Don’s perspective, she dropped a bomb on him.And he was gracious about it. Don is heartbroken, and understandably so. But apparently he’s not even allowed to have feelings. These two are great but sometimes in this show they are completely unable to empathize with men.

Mack

Yeah their view of the male characters can be so myopic and one note. Don, despite his selfish nature, is doing everything he can to be supportive of his second wife cuz he doesn’t want to repeat the mistakes of his first marriage, and their only takeaway is that Don doesn’t know Megan and wants to be the center of everything she does? Like huh? Nah, Don is infatuated with and obsessed with Megan and he’s saddened to find out the fact that she’s not passionate about what he’s passionate about like he thought and that hes not going to get to work with her anymore.

Screen Larpers

you have empathy for him because the writers are good at making you feel that. The reactors have enough foresight (and actually pay attention to Don's patterns) to realize the direction Don is about to go which is why they are rightly concerned