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Mad Men 6x04 Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2026-02-05 01:05:55
Edited:
2026-03-22 23:45:59
Imported:
2026-06
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________________________ patreon - https://www.patreon.com/LMreactions twitter - https://twitter.com/LMreaction tv time - lola - skysstillblue, milena - oneofthe100

Comments

Marzer

Right on time for dinner

Josip

harry telling joan to f off is actually a great scene

Griffen Rosado

This is a classic Don hypocrite whiplash episode. Fun fact, at the bar Ted orders an Old Spanish, which of course isn't a real drink. It's a reference to a 30 Rock episode where a guest character is tricked into thinking that a mix of Spanish red wine, tonic, and 3 olives is a real drink.

Scott

Pete jumpscare

Chidi.

Loved Lola's slightly delayed reaction to Harry's outburst. :))

Eric Viola

A little trivia from this ep: Ted orders an 'Old Spanish' in the bar after the Ketchup pitch which was a made-up drink from the sitcom 30 Rock. This was written in as a friendly response to 30 Rock writers who would routinely take lore from Mad Men and include it in gags/stories on 30 Rock.

Eric Viola

Whatever you think of Harry, that scene in the conference room steals the episode

Mike

Doing a positive(?) Harry story out of nowhere is the real jumpscare here.

Mike

"Meredith, why don't you step out?" lmao It's totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but that scene at the club is one of my favourites in the whole season. The lights, the Serge Gainsbourg song, Christina Hendricks's smile. Sometimes it's OK to just put cool shit on screen.

tilden katz

@EricViola Remember the last episode of 30 Rock (which aired years before Mad Men ended) and Liz Lemon was imploring Jack Donaghy to not end himself: "Don't you want to know how Mad Men ends??? Don goes to work for PEGGGGYYYYYYY!!!!

Mike

It's a really cool trick how you think Harry is storming into the conference room to embarrass himself (which he does, to be clear) but then he starts getting angry, and cruel, and also... kind of right? Like, fuck you dude, first of all. But also yeah, when you put it that way, maybe you do deserve a partnership? Anyway Bert & Roger's refusal to even entertain the idea, despite his convincing arguments, reminds me of Don's line (to Pete) way back in the pilot: "Keep it up, and even if you do get my job, you'll never run this place. You'll die in that corner office. A mid-level executive with a little bit of hair who women go home with out of pity. You want to know why? Because no one will like you." Though I have to say, Rich Sommer has a hell of a head of hair this season. Look at those sideburns.

tilden katz

Ohh Don jealous about his wife. Sooooooo tiring. Wasn't Red in the Face a S1 episode?? I'm gagging. I ride and die (mostly die) with Don.

Haye Zeus

My problem with Velma from Scooby Doo is that I don’t find her interesting of a character. She is one of my frustrations about these later seasons. The rest of the episode is gold.

tilden katz

When Don said, "I have to think about it." All I thought was, Don is becoming a caricature. Banal, to the point of irrelevance. There's a reason why MM won the best drama Emmy its 4 years, and didn't win after that.

JBK405

"A dishonest man". If there's ever a one-sentence summary of Don's character, there it is. It's so fascinating that as contemptible as Harry is as a general person, he's not exactly wrong in how much value he brings to the company. TV has become a significant portion of their revenue, and it is apparently getting bigger and bigger. This TV special he thought up in this episode isn't a game-changer all by itself, but it's a nice cash profit off a SINGLE thing, and he did it almost single handedly. Does that mean he deserves a partnership more than Joan? Almost certainly not. Does that mean he deserves serious consideration to be judged on his own merits? Yes, it does. At the end, Joan is punishing Dawn by giving her more work with no more pay, but Dawn recognized that being given more responsibility -- even if there's no pay NOW -- means that A) She's not going to be fired or otherwise punished, and B) Joan will be keeping an eye on her for future promotion/raises/recognition that she won't for other secretaries. Dawn is smart enough to see that bigger picture, even if Joan just means it as a punishment right now. Ted Chaough said that Heinz bought the ad that a third company pitched (That's when they "bought it in the room"). It was a bigger company who won, so Ted was commiserating about how Heinz brought in three companies, and let the two small ones make their pitch, then went with the big company without even bothering to wait or 'think it over'. Dow Chemicals was one of the main suppliers for napalm and Agent Orange to the US military in the Vietnam War, and for a while was the ONLY supplier for napalm when the other manufacturers refused to keep producing it after public backlash. So it was one of the major Faces of the conflict, and couldn't even hide behind "Everybody else does it, too". Hence why they're facing public criticism that they're trying to distract from with gaudy TV events to say "We're not monsters, look at how AMERICAN we are with Broadway and football!" It's the same point that Peggy made (And Don made previously): Change the conversation. Get Dow's name out as "Family Friendly" instead of "Arms Manufacturing".

Mike

It's perfectly fine if you don't like this season, but you don't have to leave four comments about it on the reaction for each episode.

Mike

As far as Don's affairs go, she's probably the most thematic-idea-instead-of-real-character since... Suzanne in S2? And the "right under his wife's nose" of it all is basically the same idea. I do like the Catholic guilt twist these past few episodes.

JBK405

Oh, regarding whether or not Peggy and Ken are still friends, I think maybe not. And not because anything HAPPENED. I think rather it's that they were never as close friends as either of them pretended they were, and the illusion shattered just before Peggy left SCDP. They talked repeatedly about making a pact to not go anywhere without the other, and I don't think either of them were "lying", but I don't think either of them really thought that through or considered what it meant. It was a polite, meaningless promise you make that you never expect to have to follow-through on. Like promising to split a lottery jackpot with your co-worker when you buy a ticket on your lunch break. You don't expect to win, so you're not really splitting anything. But if you actually did win $100 million, suddenly you'll remember that you were only joking, and isn't really immature and selfish for your co-worker to try and hold you to that when everybody can tell it was a joke? I think the exact moment the illusion broke is when Ken went to console Peggy after Don threw the money in her face in "The Other Woman". He promised that he would get her to Paris even though Don didn't want to send her, and if he couldn't do it then they would both leave like they promised. Peggy looks at him with utter contempt (Which I don't think he deserved, but she was angry & hurt so I don't blame her for it in that moment) and tells him to save the fiction for his stories. They were NEVER going to leave together. It was always just a shared joke, and at that moment when she was really hurting she didn't want to play Pretend, and so she just threw out the entire game. And Ken just nodded, turned around, and left. He's not even heartbroken, because he also was never super invested in this little fantasy. It was just one way they passed the time when they were miserable at work. They're probably still generally fond of each as pleasant former co-workers -- Ken definitely likes her more than he likes Pete or Roger or even Don -- but that's where it stops. They're not still hanging out or staying in touch. Just like Peggy & Joan, or Peggy & Ginsberg, or Peggy & Dawn. It was just a work relationship, even if they both acted like it was more.

dandelions2

How can you still struggle to understand what Harry does? He's the head of media, in charge of all their tv and radio work

tilden katz

Don has been presented as an intelligent man. What does that statement mean? He's going to go down to the set and stop Megan's kissing scene by force? He's going to talk to the writers and convince them to change the script? Does he think he's Orson Welles? This is totally not believable for someone as savvy as Don supposedly is. He could've said, 'Im not comfortable with it', or something along the lines of him accepting the reality of it, but speaking sincerely about it.

tilden katz

When I think of Don, one word describes him. Alone. When Anna told him, "the only thing keeping you from being happy, is the belief that you are alone." That captured him perfectly. Rachel Menken, (Don's real wife if the universe was not indifferent) knew him on Day 1, ......."I know what it feels like to be disconnected. I wonder if you feel that too." All the gutter depravity that Don skewers himself in, is just incidental. It's all to make him feel that he somehow belongs somewhere, anywhere, that isn't in side his head. (I 'killed' my own mother. I am a worthless whore-child. I killed Don Draper, and stole his name. I. AM. NOTHING.) "Would you, love you?" "I'm surprised that you ever loved me." (The most honest single thing Don ever uttered in his life.) Scared little boy, who has no one to hold him, and make the bad things go away. The dishonesty is a symptom. His solitude is the disease that rides merrily on.

NF

What I love about Mad Men is you can be like fuck Harry but also…. he ain't lying about what he said.

Mark M

I love the competing for ketchup plotline and all the secrecy and subterfuge in this episode. Plus the karmic justice that nobody gets what they want and just end up letting each other down. 'Pass the Heinz' is one of my favourite in-show ads. The image of the fries without ketchup and the overlay is great. Like Jackie/Marilyn in season 2, some of the better ideas never get used. Although someone else mentioned it but Heinz did actually use it IRL. Harry's a dick but some of what he says is true. Joan has fired a few secretaries for minor infractions. I'd be annoyed if I had to find a new one with no say in the matter. Joe Namath was a genuine superstar at the time so it should be a big deal. Harry often gets shunted around and ignored e.g. Pete taking his office last season. Joan is obviously very important to the firm, and should've been rewarded for that without being pushed to sleep with a client. She's also frustrated by how much of her work gets overlooked. But I can understand why Harry would be irritated looking at it from the outside, even if he went about it terribly. Make your own case rather than try to slander someone else, especially when they're above you in the pecking order. He managed it in season 2 when he made the case for the television department.

Kev

Kev

Neither company landed the account, you are correct.

Kev (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-19 14:00 For all the talk of wanting Dawn to be a prominent character when she was first introduced, there was surprisingly little discussion of her scenes here despite it being a great deal of information. Firstly, we learn Dawn is pretty conservative and upfront about not wanting to date without serious commitment, which is seeming to be a bit of an obstacle for her, ending relationships before they start. She even says she won't find a man at church because all of the girls there are harlots, so it's safe to say the sexual revolution isn't one that she approves of. There's another general reminder of both the limitations and rewards of femininity: you can get married and not work, or you can work and have no dating life. Work and be free but busy, or get married and be comfortable but bored. Or you can marry for love ("I'm not sure people do that anymore"). Of course, Dawn's friend doesn't have to ask to know the other secretary she's talking about is white. It's an otherwise unspoken dynamic that for once is spoken about, Scarlett goes to Dawn because she knows there is a power imbalance so Dawn can't say no, and if someone gets the blame it won't be the white one (little do they both know that, as Pete points out, an equal rights commission means it'd be awkward if SCDP fired the one black employee, whose name is not even uttered in that exchange (despite Don vouching for her job performance), who is only there to cover a mistake of caused by a petty jab at their competitor; another reminder that our main characters aren't the good guys, in fact the good guys are getting in their way here). But I think the more noteworthy aspect of Dawn here is that we see the quiet, meek outsider finally get to speak her mind. She couldn't be more matter-of-fact about it: the miserable alcoholic sobfest of white Madison Avenue isn't anything more to her than a job. She keeps her head down and works, but has no qualms about what it is. It's not glamorous, and she doesn't hesitate in declining Scarlett's invitation to attending one of the other white secretary's birthday where she will be hanging out with the rest of the other white secretaries. We see how outsiders must be talking about things like Lane's suicide, at this point diminished to an unimportant piece of gossip (Did you hear about the adman who hanged himself in his own office?). Dawn's friend scoffs at the idea of taking pity, but Dawn in turn scoffs at the idea of resistance. She also boldly but smartly goes to Joan to clear the air, in return getting punished? Rewarded? ("Congratulations, more work and more responsibility"). We get no indication that Dawn likes Joan, so I think I realized her rather jarring display of connection ("I don't care if everyone hates me here as long as you don't") is likely actually a display of respect, essentially saying that she recognizes Joan as holding the cards and feels she has job security if she is on Joan's good side (which makes me wonder if, to the "smallfolk" of this office, Joan's "petty dictatorship" was actually a successful show of force, or if Dawn simply wants to get on Joan's good side either way).
2026-02-05 12:24

tilden katz

"Change is neither good, or bad. It simply is. It can be greeted with terror or joy." Why is there such a wall between this guy's observations in his work life, and his real life? Is he supposed to be pig-headed when he's able to sell progressive ideas to others? But, he can't sell to himself. Someone that intelligent, can't possibly be that obstinate. Where is the arc of, one step forward-two steps back struggle of development for him? The Suitcase, and The Summer Man showed possibility, and Don could've fought for himself from there. But, instead of that being a demarcation point, it turned out to be a blip on Don's radar screen of unhappiness. He is static, when you know he has the inner stuff to want more. It just feels like we have a couple of seasons to fill, so might as well have him stuck in the mud doing what he always does, and see if its still entertaining. With Pete and Harry, it makes sense. Don is supposed to think deeper, want more, and it just...................oh brother.

tilden katz

Linda Cardellini is a very good actor. MM has been blessed with very talented people playing guest roles, Julia Ormond, Maggie Siff, Chelcie Ross, amongst others. Im the contrarian that thought Suzanne wasn't nuts, and was an ok character. Maybe it has something to do with that Abigail Spencer might be the most beautiful woman I've ever seen, and I lose the ability to form coherent sentences when I see her. Its the same as when I don't see her. I never saw what Don saw in Bobbie. She clearly had no respect for her husband, who she almost saw as a child. And she was............so old.

Mark M

Yeah it's debatable how minor they are. They seem minor to me, relatively speaking. I agree on Lane's secretary, although I think they were both harsh there as it was the flower store who mixed the order up (I think...) Jane was clearly personal though. I don't remember her caring about anyone else going in Cooper's office, just Jane. I do sympathise with Joan and am not trying to undermine her. I was providing context for why Harry might be skeptical when he is the one who has to deal with the consequences. There is cause to fire Scarlett, but it also could've been avoided, and I don't think the desire to take initiative makes it necessary. If Pete or Roger had said 'just fire her' I would have thought they were wrong too.

tilden katz

It's worse now by dimensions. In S1 a man was actively flirting with his wife, in front of his face. Now, he wants to blow up over an acting scene. Im supposed to sit there and applaud and say, wow this guy just gets worse FOR NO APPARENT REASON. Bravo. How do people not get tumors watching this?

tilden katz

Excellent point. Not everyone is destined for the happy ending. But, Don is deep cause ya know......he BROODS. He has the streak of the poet in him, he's supposed to be sensitive to human frailty. Much like Joan, who is seemingly omniscient in everything except her terrible love life, Don is capable of getting 'it'. Where are the W's for him since The Summer Man? It is also unrealistic for someone to just go on a permanent decline. The push-pull of the better angels and dark side. Why can't we get the battle with Don? He just resolutely regresses. That's not fair to a character that wants to be a better man, whatever that entails for him. I feel cheated, and Weiner gleefully indulges in finding ways to make him more lost, bitter, intractable, in the hope of what?

Kev (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-19 14:00 I always found the Joan & friend (Kate? I think her name is Kate) subplot charming (The way Joan awkwardly third-wheels) if not a little confusing, but this reaction gave me a deeper appreciation for it. It's uplifting, even healing, how it ends. Yes, on the surface, it's usual Joan tragedy: Joan tries to assert herself and self-actualize, she is shot down and undermined as just a secretary, she retreats to being in the background and accepts her role as a woman who's only good for one thing. Personally, I find those episodes more crushing than Betty ones. It's the self-fulfilling prophecy of it all. Moreover, despite her position as a partner, she is really back in the same place that she was 3 seasons ago. Remember her on the verge of tears, telling Greg that no one at her job respects or likes her and she can't talk to anyone? Here she is doing the same thing to her friend this time. No progress. Except it feels, and ends, differently. Notably, Joan's dual subplots this episode are unrelated, unlike previous seasons where any scene out of the office would directly pertain to issues with work. That breathing room is a much-needed relief, and that scene in the bed after a night of letting off steam defines how it's different. Instead of confiding to a rapist she's stuck in a marriage with, she's slouched in a bed next to her friend, in the same clothes as the night before, like she's in college (or high school, as she jokes). She's relaxed instead of uptight. Her slightly overbearing mother who lives with her keeps bursting in, urging her to wake up already and take care of her son. It's chaotic and messy, and not at all the life Joan envisioned for herself, but it's comfortable. Compared to the stable yet frigid plan she was living out 3 seasons ago, she actually has a support network of sorts and isn't so isolated. It's bittersweet, for sure, as Joan laments. She didn't end up having the perfect traditional life she was raised to want ("And I never will, how did that happen?"). Receiving an unintentional pep talk from an envious friend reminds her that she has made progress, and it's a step up from a husband who can't alleviate any of those concerns with anything of substance, because he doesn't think his wife has any substance. It's not so inescapably awful, and despite the failure in the workplace she is able to keep her head high and maintain a sense of self. And I love the power strut she does into the office (where are the people who point out the fashion in this show to talk about the black she wears at the end? it looks so good), casually saying good morning to Harry and Scarlett instead of cowering away.
2026-02-05 14:52

tilden katz

I need to see deeper the way you, Jamie, Taya and all the brilliant commentators on here. Y'all are outstanding, no bullshit. I'm the unintentional comedy relief.

tilden katz

The W's are quiet moments. Don being considerate of anyone. Listening to someone with empathy. Anything he does with Peggy that isn't him hurting her, is ABSOLUTE gold. Im sorry he did get a W when he let Sally's friend drive his car home. That was a beautiful moment, cause who knew Don is capable of being sweet? Tony Uncle Johnny commits murder as part of his occupational duties. Which is even worse than if he were a garden variety serial killer. There'd be some kind of passion in it. There is no path to redemption from that. Don isn't at that level. Don 'played' happy at the beginning of S5. He was totally totally totally uncomfortable watching his sex kitten wife hypnotize all of his friends with Zou Bisou Bisou. He was already boiling. Real Don (ha!) ironically enough, is not fake. He is a genuinely wounded soul. Give me Don at the office where he is best. Give me him with Megan, fucking up, but still trying to make up for it, somehow. He has a remorseless affair with a babe who lives 10 feet from his house. That doesn't jibe, unless Don has gone completely off the rails, and just DONT give a fukks no mo. Which he obviously, still does. Its incoherent, and it leaves me confused.

tilden katz

Suzanne was a good egg. I never understand the vitriol against her. The affair was kind of blasé, so maybe that is why she was attacked. It seemed kind of senseless. But, she was a darling.

tilden katz

At least I embrace my tumors. I think about Don a lot. Even more than some of my friends. There is so much there. To see him reduced to a tiresome cliché just crushes me.

tilden katz

Joan pays the price for having a "I'm not bad, Im just drawn that way" body, and sex appeal. People are envious of that power she has, and quietly love to see her knocked down, a peg or 2, or 3. I think she's accepted that a certain portion of people will never look past that, (Hi, Harry) and she will continue to roll on, without support if she has to. Maybe she retroactively realizes how much she limited herself with her 1950's thinking. How opportunities slipped away, caused she quietly accepted defeat, or didnt think it was her place to reach for more, or what she deserved at work. She could be sad about it, just like her dumpster fire marriage. She isn't. She soldiers on, with a little bit of a chip on her shoulder, and her very quotable sharp tongue. She's the hero she was looking for. I think Joanie is most satisfied, even though at work she's still just a 'secretary'.

tilden katz

She did care, "I'm Sally's teacher. I've seen your wife at the market." She said it VERY concerned. LOL She cared, but it didn't stop her from doing it anyway.

tilden katz

I understand what you're saying. It's just that he is treading water IMHO. S3 is Don at his most Don-ness. In constant worry (Betty) bewildered, (723 signs contract with gun to head) still great at the office, (Change the conversation). His wife ultimately annihilates him, and he somehow puts the crumbled pieces together at the end. Reinvents himself like Gatsby wished he could.

Subwoolfer

One could argue he is the only reason the firm makes money. Like Kinsey says in S1E2, the majority of the money comes from media buys.

Subwoolfer

Harry is carrying the entire firm with his media buys. Pete is carrying by signing new accounts with his charm. And Harry knows how important he is. "You are to do whatever I think is best" and in the few scenes we see her: he seems to have great professional relationship with his secretary Scarlett "Harry has great ideas"

tilden katz

How is Don struggling, failing, but still trying, sound like fan fiction? He is a monster that just does not care about anything ? At all? Wow. If that were true, explain to me why that would be worth watching? I wouldn't care if every episode was as good as Shut the Door, if that were the case.

tilden katz

Let's start an argument. Top 10 episodes of MM so far. 1. Shut the Door. Have a Seat. 2. The Suitcase 3. Meditations in an Emergency 4. Nixon v. Kennedy 5. Signal 30 6. The Other Woman 7. The Wheel 8. Seven Twenty Three 9. Far Away Places 10. The Gypsy and the Hobo

tilden katz

But she was CONSCIOUS STRICKEN. And that's what makes her a 'good' person. Plus it gave us the best needle drop in the series; Nnenna Freelon's Prelude to a Kiss. That is the definitive version of that song, even better than ( I can't believe I'm saying it) Ella Fitzgerald's.

tilden katz

Betty was going to be more important by default, main reason being shehisBabyMomma. Don is friends with Roger, Freddy Rumsen, and Peggy is the de-facto love of his life. When Don had the thought of 'I'm going to try to do this right, this time', it's because he genuinely feels love for Megan. She treats him nicely, dare I say, more than kind. He wants to make her happy. Yes, Don and his bullshit need for total control, made him lose the ardor for Megan. However I don't think he has lost all affection for her because of it. Am I a Stan for thinking he wants to turn it around after he fucks up?

tilden katz

Disagree. Don and Roger are friends. Im a little older than Don, and Im still friends with my old neighborhood buddies. We see each other once every few months, cause life, busy, travel, etc. Just cause Don and Roger don't have nights to remember like in the past, doesn't mean they are not friends. They are. Don and Roger sitting down and shooting the shit, is the absolute peak of MM. Nothing comes close to a scene of them just talking. Being friends has nothing to do with proximity, or time spent with someone. You just are. Don actually has affection for Freddie. Peggy, yeah well, I could write more than a limerick about that. If Don can't love in a well-adjusted manner like us good folks in the therapeutic 21st century, who is to say it is not love? If that's all he knows about loving someone, how us he not being sincere? It's not the outcome that I'm interested in with Don, whether he reaches 'enlightenment', or not. It's the process. Bro, like this mothafukka is just going to stay fucken stoopid forever without even trying? That to me is unrealistic. Sorry.

tilden katz

"You're not good at relationships, cause you don't value them." Don was kicked in the face by everyone who was supposed to care about him his first 18 years, except for Adam. How is he supposed to know how to value, when he himself has never been? And look what Adam got, for trying to show Don some love. Ignorance doesn't give a free pass for cruelty. Being blissfully unaware of how to love someone passively, is different than actively using someone as a punching bag. Thats a choice, that requires more agency than just not knowing that abuse is not normal.

SwampFox95

Not caught up on Mad Men, but here I am refreshing for Andor…

Jamie
>>202148095

I've been at work passing the time by yapping in here all day but really i'm just waiting for that sweet sweet Andor drop.

Scared Cannon

Im nervous like Im about to be there on the ghorman plaza

Jay Craig

As much as I love Joan, that discussion at one point was a lot of dancing around calling her what she actually is towards the secretaries which is a bully. The word for someone who picks on people beneath them to make themselves feel better is a bully. You can just say it.

Taya

Rira bhe fvyrapr vf n fcbvyre yby.

Scared Cannon

I might faint when they drop andor

Julien

I agree with much of this. Thanks for digging into it. Joan trusted Dawn with a responsibility. She delegates to her. It was definitely a promotion of sorts. It's a mark of trust. And Dawn's reaction should dispell any idea that it was a punishment. She gets it.

Julien

Beats me. I've been derisively referred to as a "Harry stan" for maintaining that while Harry may be unlikeable he is good as his job. It's beyond strange that people here seem completely unable to appreciate his very real value to the company because they don't like him. Apparently folks including our reactors seem to believe that he does nothing, when he's constantly been the most forward-looking man at the company. That he invented his job, incredibly gets perceived as a negative. Absolute insanity. They just handed him his YEARLY SALARY as a bonus, about $250K in today's money. Do people think companies do things like that for useless employees?

Julien

Companies don't hand out an employee's yearly salary as a BONUS (about $250K today) to useless employees. You don't have to like Harry to recognize his value to SCDP. In fact, the tension between his shittiness and his value is what makes the character interesting. Nobody likes Harry. If he were useless, they would have gotten rid of him years ago. Joan is good at running the place but she is not an ad person anymore than the office managers at the law firms I worked at were lawyers.

Julien
>>202168823

They just did. I've only watched season 1 and their reactions to it. I'll get into the rest at some point. But the mentions of Andor here tell me that ep 8 of S2 is a pivotal episode! 😂👍

Luis

It’s too clever. Brings to mind the VW ads.

Luis

I don’t think we know enough to say he’s good at his job. Joan had his job earlier and in a week was doing it as well as him or better. His only major mistake that we’ve seen is how he handled Lee Garner Jr so let’s he’s not bad at his job.

tilden katz

Joan runs a tight ship, she doesn't take it lightly. Stealing company time at any job is a fireable offense. If you give her no reason to jump on you, she won't. That isn't even close to being a bully. The way she reacts might seem harsh, but she is fair.

tilden katz

Harry has committed the sin of being a not so nice guy, while also not being good looking. If Harry looked like Harry Styles, the vitriol against him would be slashed by at least 50%. Harry is apparently good enough at his job that Roger, who is not a Harry fan, hasn't found sufficient grounds to dismiss him yet. That's all you need to know.

on crip ...

Harry is not useless, but I doubt he's particularly valuable. We see he's worth a bonus, not a partnership to SCDP. And, I wouldn't be surprised if he's still underpaid at 22K. In my view, they keep him because he's a bargain, malleable, and adequate at his job. In that order. He's not special and not useless. Additionally, your comparison is not appropriate. Harry's role doesn't have a rigorous barrier to entry. It's presented as an emerging role that he's learned on the job. Remember, he hired someone with no experience to help him in the early stages. Not to mention, he hired them after Joan had shown competency and interest in the role. I 100% believe Joan would've been better as head of the TV department. It'd be in line with what Don and Peggy's success in advertising reveals: the entry barriers to these 'prestigious' ad roles have less to do with skill, and more to do with class and gender gatekeeping practices. All this leads to another thought: 'prestige' jobs must gatekeep to maintain their status/high-salary. It's why "AI" is devastating the tech market imo

on crip ...

at least for me, i basically got nothing from the Dawn scenes that i didn't already infer to be the case based on her working as a secretary, avoiding the riots, and vigilance during her convo at peggy's apartment the scenes felt like we got a "yes" and no "and" yes, Dawn works in a racist late 1960s environment, and? if im not lazy, i might do an in-depth comparison of joan/friend scenes vs. dawn/friend scenes like the 'after school special' feel of Dawn scenes vs. a kinda 'Lost in Translation' feel of Joan scene at that club or wherever they were that scene was artsy af. atp, just give me more of those scenes with characters that have 6 seasons of depth. it's mad men season 6, i don't expect commentary on race. attempts now risk feeling tacked on like in this episode

on crip ...

it's mad men season 6, so i don't expect commentary on race. tbh atp, attempts risk feeling tacked on like this episode's "after school special" Dawn scenes however, pls more 'artsy' type scenes with the characters that have 6 seasons of depth. there's a certain cool "Lost in Translation" feel to Joan's scene in the club, or wherever. that was so good

Taya

Yes! That's what that scene reminds me of. Lost in Translation vibes

Sebastian

I think Joan has a tendency to take out her anger on the secretaries to a disproportional degree, because that's the only group she actually has power over (and as it turns out, not much even there). You can reprimand someone without firing them for a first offense. It happened with Jane in season 2 as well. And she threw a plane at Meredith. A lesser show would have Joan be a blemish free saint. I think it's actually important to acknowledge she's being a bully sometimes.

Thomas Fahey

1968 was a year of living dangerously for people everywhere in the world, and it was all on TV. (Well placed ad there, Harry) We saw the world (literally for the first time) on the telly. Don's children (the grandparents of most people today) are soaking it up like little sponges. In this atmosphere only a few characters in the show observe the rules in more than name only.

on crip ...

Kev resist making up arguments challenge level impossible😭😭😭 I've never argued for more storylines. I've consistently critiqued /the portrayal/ of black characters. I've noted my specific critiques elsewhere: #1. Every black character is a passive subordinate without agency. #2. Mad Men's "critique" of patriarchy is extremely outdated, overwhelmingly constrained to cis white heterosexuality. BC bare bones critique: the writers can't write black characters so, yeah, i'd rather get characters with 6 seasons of depth vs. clunky bad writing when there's so few episodes left

on crip ...

it's basically like now 2026 so characters' apathy is even worse contextually; no real algos, or echo chambers realizing this has drastically reduced my ability to look past the characters' apathy to the world around them. to have bare minimum empathy towards them

on crip ...

im getting more of an optimistic liberal idealism take

Karan Verma

Just wanted to point out something. I work in advertising and Don's campaign is considered one of the all time great campaign lines. It was so good that Heinz actually used this campaign post the release of the episode. Fantastic fantastic line. Don's campaign was better than Peggy's.

Mack

You may not like Harry (who does) but he’s running a valuable department for the company mostly on his own and it is a fact that Joan got partnership with her body (no fault of her own)…. So thats exactly why they didn’t fire Harry for his outburst, cuz despite not liking him, they know his value. Got to loom beyond how you feel about a character

Mack

Lol what? She’s jumped on secretaries multiple times throughout the show for no reason at all, starting with Peggy. She was right here but she has been a bully multiple times.

Mack

*look

Mack

Cuz he’s an unlikable character so they turn a blind eye to his actual contributions to the continue. They’re often blinded by their dislike or affinity for a character. They’re often forget, there’s a reason they seeked out Harry to be part of the new firm even though no one likes him.