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Buffy the Vampire Slayer Reaction 6x19 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-08-14 18:39:29
Edited:
2024-05-22 11:10:24
Imported:
2026-08
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Please use one of the links at the bottom of this post to watch this video, thank you:

Hello All!

I AM DISTRAUGHT! I have no words...I hope this is all just a VERY bad dream that I will soon wake up from. LOOK AT HER SMILING FACE THAT THEYRE ABOUT TO END!!!! I swear to Lucifer Tara better be okay!!! Seeing those red eyes on Willow made my heart sink to my stomach. I have never been so terrified to watch a following episode in my LIFE!!!

Hope you enjoy the reaction folks. Have a lovely week everyone! Thank you for the constant love & support!

Much love

Dakara x

*A special thanks & shout out to the following Patrons for sponsoring this video*:

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Comments

Gabe Morales

This is a controversial one to say the least. Warren being a misogynistic piece of garbage turns out to be not his worst trait. That attempted rape scene is so hard to watch. Spike the character was never the same for me after that. This was something James Marsters really didn’t want to do and almost quit the show over. It’s unfortunately a trademark of this show: bring a couple as close to happiness as you can get then rip it from them. Has been happening ever since Angel lost his soul after sleeping with Buffy the first time. Beyond Tara, Willow, and Dawn, it was hard to to root for anyone in this episode. Buffy and Xander taking out their anger and frustration on each other. Xander was the worse of the two. I get his anger towards Spike and the situation with Anya but that didn’t give him the right to use Buffy as a punching bag. I’m glad they said their apologies before that ending. Willow’s eyes…shit is about to hit the fan in a nasty way.

Beny

I genuinely hate this episode. It feels like it just did the things it did to be cruel. And it´s pretty much just Joss Wheadon being upset that Spike was so popular, so he made him do... that. That scene also messed James Marsters up pretty badly

CJ

You totally missed that they added Amber Benson to the title credits of this episode. First and only time - as a decoy to what was about to happen!

TheEmpurpler⁷

I'm sorry for you having to experience this episode! 😢 "How cruel can they be?" Putting Amber Bensen in the opening credits for the first time kind of cruel!

TheEmpurpler⁷

Spike & the bathroom scene was so horrible but it almost seemed like the show kept trying to remind all the viewers that Spike is a soul-less evil demon & fans still kept shipping them together, so they did that to really hit the nail on the head! That scene messed up James Marsters so bad it had him curled up in a fetal position in between takes, he had to go to therapy after & he put it in his contact to never have to do that kind of scene ever again.

TheEmpurpler⁷

In a way, Warren is the most horrific villain ever in this show because he's not a metaphor or supernatural- he's real. There are too many men in the real world who think like him, talk like him, & treat women like him. Toxic masculinity & misogyny are so real & that's why watching this episode is so hard.

Purple Nurple

As soon as it cut to Buffy slaying the vampire I knew what was coming and I had to un-maximise the screen and prepare myself. I was like you - hands in front of the face... it was such a shock. It had no music, just like The Body to make it really hit harder. The shock of Tara and Buffy getting shot at the end... oof it comes out of nowhere. Guns aren't a big thing in Buffy, so for Warren to pull that out was quite a surprise. we thought 'ahh it's gonna be a happy end to a tough episode... and then they hit us with that'. The title is 'Seeing Red' - which can mean many things in this episode. The bathroom scene - we all saw red at our anger with Spike, could be the red orbs, Xander's anger in the episode, or it could refer to the blood on Willow's shirt and her eyes literally going red at the end. Little fun fact for you: The actor who played Warren (Adam Busch) and Amber Benson - used to date from 2002 and 2009 and they also directed a movie called 'Drones' together (released 2010)

Denni Caid

This episode is strange, because I hate almost every single thing that happened in it, but it did its job very well and I can respect that - especially in retrospect. Even some people who count season 6 their favorite would say they hate this episode with a passion.

R. Chang

Hard to talk about this one too much without spoilers. But I will say that yes, it's a pretty rough watch. I personally, do like where this season goes from a story perspective, but that doesn't mean that I like all of the things that happened.

Nathanael Myer

I was actually looking forward to seeing what you reacted to on this episode. I haven’t seen too many Buffy reactions and none of them are in season six yet. But, yes, the shock, pain and anger is there for me when I first saw this. I think it was a year before I watched the rest of the season. I got the DVDs as a gift so I watched it. It was still hard to watch, heck was even hard to watch your reaction. I do appreciate your honesty in the reaction and hope that your day got better.

bethany

this one ALWAYS hurts to watch reactors watch. usually I find a sense of guilty joy at the harder episodes or deaths ie Miss Calendar, but this one is just… always too much whether it’s Spike and Buffy or the final scene with Willow and Tara. I always watch anyways just to see, but it never feels good. It’s also never one I rewatch on my own. I think the Trio is one of the funniest and silliest villians on Buffy but damn does it get dark fast.

Audra Foxgrove

I haven’t watched your reaction yet, or read any other comments, but I’m just stopping in preemptively to say: take as long as you need to before you go on, whether it’s right here or at the end of the season. Sending love. I always dread this one.

indaeo

I adore all of your reactions, but sadly, this is the one episode I refuse to re-watch with any reactor. It's too hard for me, for both main storylines. However, I will skip to the end for your comments, though, I always find those illuminating. I hope you're doing okay. <3

Koz

Well, THAT'S not the Funtime Jamboree I was looking for. ... I think every reactor I've seen watch this episode is of a similar feeling to yours, though you MAY have been the most affected by the Spike and Buffy scene. You ALSO maintained the track record for the Andrew crashing his jet pack headfirst into that roof; no matter how unhappy this episode, people will laugh their posteriors off at that. ... You're one of my favorite reactors, and I don't like seeing you sad. But, if it helps, you are among the best at conveying that sadness.

Gary Smith

Your reaction was, as always, perfect. Based on what you witnessed it would be weird to feel any other way. This episode is a real low point, it’s a shame you can’t just skip it and move on. But please never judge yourself for how you react to something, it’s literally why we’re all here, and however you react it is right for you to do so.

Corey

"Oh shit" is correct

Jontor11

I'm sorry Dakara you had to see that. Yeah, this episode is rough. And no one likes it. We got a harsh reminder that Spike is actually...evil. And on top of that we have the most annoying, narcissistic creep of all time - Warren. If GIles was here he would say...Bloody Hell.

StrawberryPanic

Yes incels are my biggest fear the fact that dudes like him have grown in size since this show aired is scary as hell

HuntingSwan

I like this episode, I think it's necessary to show the true consequences of a toxic relationship that let's be honest, has never respected consent properly. Of course it's hard to watch but as a rape survivor myself, I kinda get annoyed when people start acting like it's too horrible for them to see. I actually lived this experience and I came back from it, it doesn't define me, it's something thousands go through and it deserves to be explored in dramas. When people act like this scene is too horrendous to handle it kinda sends the message that experiences like this are too huge to recover from and makes it seem like the damage is irreparable. Buffy has overcome many things and I believe she will overcome this too.

Captain Hammer

If you think about it, if Willow would have never brought Buffy back then Tara would have never been shot. Is this the true cost of that spell?

x_Rhi_x

That's an interesting perspective. I an understand people finding it super hard to watch having experienced something similar in life, but I'd personally never stop watching the show after something like that because to end on that, and have that as your final thoughts of the show is really not good. And I'dd be thinking, since its kinda rock bottom in this episode, it can theoretically only get better

John

Hugs. x

x_Rhi_x

This is a rough one dak. Maybe finish the rest of angel s3 before coming back to buffy, to have a break? Not sure if that was the plan anyway, but yeah. Take your time and as hard as this episode is, remember it's just a show, try and not let it make you feel so terrible. The fact it 'does' make you feel that way, at least shows how fantastic the show is..the writing, acting, character development...so please don't give up on it just yet 🙏 better times are ahead

Mark McMinn

I dare say this is probably the least liked episode of the entire Series. James Marsters had to go to therapy for this scene and had it put in his contracts moving forward to never do a scene like that again. The writers were not happy that So many people were shipping Spike and Buffy despite the clear toxicity of the relationship so they did this scene. My take is because Spike was such a pure and kind hearted man as a human and also him being a poet with a strong will to love and be loved, when he was turned the demon that took over his body could not fully get rid of William in full but his look on love became so warped and twisted and it was more obsessive because of losing his soul. He is still evil despite at times doing some good for the group. It’s always a very heavy topic of discussion amongst fans particularly when comparing his actions to that of Faith or Angelus etc. Buffy and Spike beat eachother up and then would have sex. It was abusive on both sides. James Marsters talked about the scene years later on a podcast and talked about a couple who had been in a similar relationship and it was abusive and toxic but then they would have sex. And they broke up but one of them thought ‘But if we just have sex again then we will love eachother and that will solve everything’ It’s wrong and Spike was completely wrong but it highlights how bad and messed up the relationship was and how there was no respect for boundaries and consent. It’s a tough season and tackled many hard but relatable topics that so many people go through.

rattusprat

You were so hopeful at the start of this episode... This is a rough one. It's OK to be a bit numb and have a "bad reaction". It's OK to not like the episode. It's OK to be angry, however things end up playing out for the rest of the season. Other people have given some solid comments but I personally think the best time for properly coming to grips with this episode and what it means is after finishing the rest of the season. It puts a few things in context and allows one to reflect a bit more circumspectly, when it's not so raw.

El

I despise this episode, but in a very different way from the 'normal' ones I don't like, like Doublemeat Palace and Bad Eggs. This one makes me angry. And it's not just Warren's raging misogyny or Xander's insistence that Buffy's life is his business, or those two specific scenes, but it's a line of Buffy's that really enrages me: "Because I stopped you." Excuse me, WHAT? Is the show really going there? Spike failed to rape Buffy ONLY because she stopped him? What kind of awful, victim blaming message are they trying to send here? That women who can't or don't stop sexual assault deserve it? That the responsibility to stop the attack was Buffy's, and not Spike's? Unforgivably bad writing choice there.

Koz

I am virtually certain that that was not the idea behind the dialogue in question. I believe it's Spike saying "Buffy ... I didn't --" and Buffy interjecting "Because I STOPPED you." That is, the only reason Spike DIDN'T rape Buffy is because she was able to stop it from happening, not because he realized he was wrong, or through any action of his own.

Valene

I think her line has to do with the context of their toxic relationship and Buffy's personal view of it, not anything to do with responsibility.

Valene

A lot of people hate this episode. But I feel it is completely necessary. We need to be raw and exposed for the climax of the season to make sense, and also for the next season to begin.

Valene

"ask me again why I could never love you, because i stopped you!" And of course Spike may not have stopped, but it was clear from the beginning of the scene that it was rape. How would anyone ever think the responsibility to stop it was on Buffy? The fact that she did stop it is because she could, and that just is. It doesn't have to mean anything.

Claire Eyles

As much as I hate Xander's attitude in this, and other episodes, I also really appreciate that they showed a long term friendship that isn't always perfect and that sometimes needs people to apologise and talk things through. I have a small group of friends that I've known for 30 years. In that time all of us, at one time or another, have said and done some stupid things, all of us have fought, and all of us have needed to apologise and talk things out. That's just part of maturing as an adult and maintaining long term relationships, so I'm kind of glad season 6 of Buffy has that little subplot as well.

ScarlettMi

@El - Buffy rejecting Spike's excuses and his attempt to downplay what he just did was not "victim blaming". You've massively confused yourself about what Buffy was saying there. That is Buffy standing firm that she's not accepting excuses or denials of what he tried to do to her. How you've interpreted that scene is just weird.

Jack

It’s worth mentioning that, in the scene with Spike, this is not actually a new feature of their (toxic) relationship. When Spike has initiated their sexual encounters it has almost always been over Buffy’s vocal objections. It’s clear from his dialogue in the scene that in his mind that’s what he’s doing here too: breaking down her boundaries until she gives in and joins in, but of course he’s completely misjudged this situation. His aim, again explicitly stated in his dialogue, is for Buffy to enjoy it - he’s expecting that after some initial resistance she will give in, enjoy being with him, and realise that she’s actually in love with him after all. In that sense at least his motivation is different to some other kinds of sexual assault, where the perpetrator’s aim is normally entirely selfish. The scene is thought-provoking in a lot of ways, but one of them is surely that it’s good that society generally has a much better understanding now of consent, and that we need to keep building on that.

Claire Eyles

And in an episode like Seeing Red this is the pettiest of complaints in a long list of things to complain about, but it just really bugs me when Buffy 'yechs' that figurine in the Trio's lair. That's Vampirella, and whilst I get that the Trio would see her in an objectifying way, she's actually a character that was co-created by one of the foremost feminist underground comics artists and writers.

Merkavar

I feel you misunderstood that line Spike was saying he didn’t do it Buffy is saying he didn’t do it because she stopped it It’s in no way blaming victims who can’t or don’t fight back Spike was trying to claim because he didn’t go through with it, it’s not as bad But the only reason he didn’t was because Buffy stopped it

PaulC

I'm pretty sure I had the exact same Vampi figure back in the day, so that little moment always makes me smile!

Claire Eyles

I don't have any of the figures, but I do have a complete high grade collection of the original Vampirella Warren run. :)

Ed Green

For me that depends on what you mean by 'least liked'. This episode makes me incredibly uncomfortable and sad. What Spike does to Buffy and the way it's presented, and the circumstances of Tara's shooting, are intensely problematic in terms of unfortunate implications. But in terms of quality, in terms of entertainment, I'd compare it to The Body. The last 10+ minutes here, from the moment Spike starts to attempt to r@pe Buffy, are not entertaining to watch. But neither was The Body. In both cases they're lessons about the horrifying power of reality. The Body was about the horror of sudden death and grief. This is about the horror of attempted r@pe and attempted murder. It's sloppily executed in terms of message, in a way that hopefully would not be repeated in today's America (see for example the mid-2010s backlash against the deaths of the character in Supernatural and the one whose name starts with an L in that other show). But I respect the writers for what they seem to have been trying to say. And I do like the episode before Spike enters the bathroom.

Ed Green

I can see, grammatically at least, how 'I can never love you, because I stopped you' could be misinterpreted as 'if I hadn't been able to stop you, I might be able to love you' but I agree that's not the intent and I don't understand how @El came to that conclusion (if I understand them correctly). Perhaps 'because I said no' would have been a clearer line choice.

Phoenix Dawn

This episode is probably the worst episode of the whole show, emotionally. Probably even more than the Body. (or at least on par)

Mark McMinn

By least liked I mean that many fans don’t like the content of the episode. They hated the bathroom scene and they were angry and upset at the killing off of Tara especially seeing her finally make the credits. I like aspects of the episode and as an actor myself I think the actors knock the episode out of the park and their performances are so authentic and believable it makes this episode that much harder for fans of the show to watch the events that unfold. I would say it’s least liked by its content and I’ve watched many reactors completely bash this episode again because they don’t like or agree with things they watched or the writers choices. From an acting stand point I put it right up there with the likes of The body in terms of the topics it tackles. But I think if you asked lots of fans if they ‘Like the episode’ many would say no.

Chas Summers

It's so hard to see reactors enjoy the end of 6/18 knowing this is up next. It's so rough.

Gregor

i think you have to react to the intro credit scene again

Dave Ford

Ah, so you may not have noticed that Tara was in the opening credits of this episode. Now remember back to season one? JW wanted to put Jesse into the credits for the first episode, before killing him off unexpectedly at the end of the episode. Draw your own inference.

Dave Ford

As for the bathroom scene with Spike? "I'm gonna do what I should have done in the first place. I'll find her, wherever she is, tie her up, torture her till she likes me again... Love's a funny thing." - Spike's idea of romantic love.

Christopher simeon

People mistake what Xander is saying to Buffy. The same words could have been said by willow and people wouldn't take it the wrong way. The gang is supposed to be best friends. They share many things with each other. This huge thing that effects Buffy should be told to her best friends. They used to talk about these things but that fact that she hid it is hurtful.

El

@Eddie Green: I'm not hearing that as a single line, though. I hear Buffy saying, "Ask me again why I could never love you!" and then Spike looks up, seems to realise for the first time what he's done, and that's when Buffy says, "Because I stopped you," which reads to me as a response to him, not a continuation of her previous thought. I still am not seeing how that line is anything other than, "You didn't rape me because I stopped you," and I still don't see how that doesn't signal that women who DON'T have superpowers are just SOL. It obviously wasn't their intent, but it still doesn't feel right to me.

Bart Aansorgh

So yes. this is one of the hardest episodes to watch. Jamers Marsters also said that this scene was the most difficult (or one of) scene he ever had to shoot, and never wanted to do something like that again. If i remember correctly. I do think that its a good episode exploring things that are always hard to touch on, and makes sense in the situation of Spike and Buffy. Xander was being a bitch the last episodes, with some reason, but here he finaly sees whats happened, and is there for buffy after it. Then Willow and Tara... soo much happiness and then this clifhanger. They do a good job on making you hate Warren. They say if u ever want a justification to want a character dead, the best way is to let them kill a pet. I'd say I'll add attempting to kill Tara to that. Spike goin of to get it fixed and changed... is ominous. Something to look forward to i guess. The episode made you mad, but it was a genuine reaction we all had, and thats why your reactions mean so much to us :). See ya on the next reaction.

x_Rhi_x

To the, roughly, 6 people telling Dak to rewatch the credits scene, i think its best she doesnt, she's clearly already upset by this episode and even said she doesnt think she wants to even react to the show anymore and needs a break - so why make it even worse by doing watching the intro again because Joss is an a$$ who rubbed salt in the wound even more ?

entrancedlife

Dakaras comment of oh shit when Willows eyes glowed red, she has no idea how right she was....

Devin Decoteau

It really didn't sit right with me how Dawn blamed Spike for "hurting" Buffy by getting with Anya.. he only did that because she(Buffy) broke up with him. And how Dawn brushed off his comment about Buffy mistreating him, it feels like the show did that alot, brush off her treatment of him.

stacia c

Joss is a sadist when it comes to relationships. We just aren't allowed to have nice things. It's been 20 freaking years, and I'm still furious about parts of this one. This episode is a catalyst though. It sets up events and character arcs for the finale of this season and into season 7. I totally understand you wanting to take a break, but I hope you don't give up on it altogether. I actually really like the end of season 6. It's not all hugs and puppies, but there is some great acting, especially from Alyson.

Alex Prado

This episode was ALOT….I’m with you when after the attempted rape scene where I was just numb to everything else that was going on cuz all I heard was Buffy’s screams and PLEASES for Spike to STOP and too not do it….THEN they kill off Tara…and we thought the Body episode was a lot

Collinson

"It's just a TV Show guys" If it was just a TV show we wouldn't be here watching you react to a 20 year old show. The show hits you harder than most other shows for good and for bad. This is a tough one to watch reactions too as you know what's coming after the happy beginning and there's a lot of stuff I don't feel I can really comment on until the season is over for spoilers. Also other stuff about behind the scenes details as it's usually to raw a moment for both the reactor and those watching.

Ray D

To be slightly fair to Spike, the Buffy/Spike sexual relations has always been an entanglement of sex and violence together. Just look at the first time they sleep together in Smashed. It starts off as a fight that then leads to sex. Also, they show many times during the season where Spike starts something sexual, Buffy protests and says no but then accepts and it turns into sex. So to spike, Buffy saying no hasn’t been the end of things in the past if he pushed a little bit more. Buffy’s depression and using of Spike just to feel something during the season has warped spikes thinking. Now in the end, spike is in the wrong here. Buffy was clearing trying hard to make him stop and he pushed way to far. But I do think that the show has done a good job of showing us through the season why these two associate violence with sex and why what happened did end up happening.

Ian Ramsey

It was more than his look and realization. He actually says, "Buffy I didn't...". Her "Because I stopped you" line was a response to that line of his.

Brian Dworak

I think this episode tried to do too many things. You have the Geek Squad with yet another wacky plan concocted by Warren, although it was pretty cool to see him be nearly invincible. The one thumbs up I will give them is that they looked really sharp in the black MA-1 bomber jackets - still have both my black and green ones from the '80s, although they don't exactly fit anymore. Then you have the completely unnecessary attempted rape scene. Remember that Joss Whedon has had complaints made about him for years, including those from Sarah, Amber, Charisma, and Michelle on Buffy - with many male and female co-stars backing them up. In fact, Michell Trachtenberg said he was not allowed to be in a room alone with her on set. The scene was horrible and it just came off as some gross idea that Whedon wanted to watch happen live. And this is where I get a bit pissed off. The biggest shocker was the last minute where Buffy and Tara are shot and that should've been the main focus. But no, we have the assault that overshadows it. I know not everybody will feel the same way about that, but having two very traumatic events ruins the impact of both to a certain extent. At least in my opinion. Lastly, I had forgotten about the Spike and Buffy stuff over the years and was solely focused on the shooting as I waited for your reaction. In fact I already had my comment typed out on my phone. But it's not appropriate for the heaviness this one left us with, so I'll post it on the next ep. Thanks Dak, you're a trooper for sticking with it. The good thing is that the vast majority of men are not like that, and a good portion of those would deal with the situation themselves.

Brian Dworak

I don't think there's been a big growth, it's just that the internet gives you access to everything so it seems like there's many more than there used to be. Believe me, there's always been adult and teen males (even pre-teens) that act like that. I've seen it in the '70s when I was a kid and every decade since. My friends and I would let them know that their behavior was unacceptable.

Pajander

Whedon didn't write the episode and the rape scene came from a female writer and her own experience where she had been the assailant in that situation. Whedon is a garbage human but that doesn't necessarily mean that literally everything that happens is his fault.

Pajander

Just a reminder that Spike has literally killed, raped and eaten hundreds of people and the only thing that has changed is that now he can't do that to other humans besides Buffy. It's actually weird that something like this didn't happen earlier. "I'm gonna do what I shoulda done in the first place: I'll find her, wherever she is, tie her up, torture her until she likes me again." - if there's something problematic in all of this, it's that the show has previously played lines like this for laughs; it's just a lot less funny when it's actually shown on screen.

Jack

Whedon has never been accused of any kind of sexual misconduct though, all the allegations against him relate to bullying behaviour. Best not to accuse him of this stuff without evidence.

Pajander

I would say using your leadership position and the power imbalance inherent in that to have sex with your employees is sexual misconduct, but as far as anyone knows that stuff was still consensual. And sadly he's not even the millionth director/producer/CEO to have done that.

Merkavar

I wonder how this episode would be different with ad breaks. Like there is the attempted rape scene and then straight into the geeks at a bar, it seems jarring. I wonder if there was an ad break there in the original airing, that would change the pacing

Purple Nurple

I think the ad break was in the middle of it. When it faded to black, that was the ad break

Brian Dworak

Whether he did or didn't, it's enough that not one female cast member felt safe around him. I would think that a standing rule that a minor was not allowed to be alone in a room with him wasn't about bullying. In Michelle's own words: "Very. Not. Appropriate."

Matt

I seriously think you should stop talking. You've made a statement that Joss inserted the rape scene because he got some weird pleasure out of seeing sexual violence on set which wasn't at all true. Now you're implying the stuff with Michelle Trachtenberg was of a sexual nature when there is absolutely no evidence at all for that. You can throw many labels at Joss and I don't think anybody disagrees that he was an asshole, a bully and could treat people awfully on set but there has been nothing from anybody to suggest what he was up to was in any way criminal in nature, which being involved with a minor would be. People need to be careful and think a little before just throwing around accusations like that.

Brian Dworak

I should stop talking? Rather aggressive for simply sharing my thoughts. No offense was intended and I'm sorry you took my comment in such a bad way. If you disagree that's fine and I respect that. I had no idea it would be controversial.

Brian Dworak

Thanks for the info Pajander, I wasn't aware of that. Good to know and it makes more sense.

Ed Green

For years the only version of the AR scene I saw was the edited-for-TV version, which iirc cuts from shortly after Spike knocks Buffy into the bath edge to the moment she throws him off, thus cutting out the 20 to 30 second part where she's screaming on the floor. That being cut made it significantly less traumatic viewing for me and I didn't even know there was a longer version until about 10 years later. By the sounds of your comment, the shorter scene is the one that better avoids eclipsing the remainder of the episode.

Brian Dworak

Yeah, I thought it seemed different than what I remembered, but it was a very long time ago. One thing I didn't understand then and now is that Buffy is the slayer and has bested Spike in fights many times in the past. Ah well.

Julian Welton

Yeah, when you were so excited after last season and couldn't wait to get into this season I was honestly dreading you having to watch this. We've all been here before, none of us liked it, and we totally get how you're feeling.

StephanieB

I know I'm late to the party but my 2 (okay, 3) cents: The relationship that James Marsters was refering to in that interview was in fact the inspiration for the bathroom scene. When brainstorming ideas for this episode, Joss Whedon asked all his writers to write about "their worst day". Marti Noxon, who was a writer for Buffy and the showrunner for S6, wrote about her experience of forcing herself on a boyfriend who had broken up with her. She thought if they could just have sex one more time, he would fall back in love and the relationship would be saved. She said the boyfriend had to forcibly stop her and remove her from his home before she came to her senses. At the time, she and Joss decided this was the storyline to go with, thinking that since Buffy is stronger than Spike it was a similar situation. Of course, it's really not similar because superhero or not, Buffy is still female and for the audience there are certain psychological factors linked to that fact, regardless of whether or not we're dealing with a supernatural storyline. Since the airing of this episode, even Noxon herself has admitted that she, Whedon and the other writers did not take this point seriously enough and has conceded that perhaps they should have gone with a different direction in regards to the Spike character. On a personal note, it frustrates me to see so many commenters point to this incident and say, "See, Spike is evil, that's why he did what he did." This is a supernatural show and there is nothing supernaturally evil about what Spike did. He wasn't even in vamp face when he did it. What he did was a human thing and he did it in a human way. And Buffy's screaming, pleading cries in no way resemble the masochistic, toxic behavior we had previously witnessed between them. This is why it hurts so much to watch it happen. Referencing the "tie up and torture her" line Spike used about Drucilla doesn't work for me either, because in that scenario we can all pretty much assume Dru would enjoy that- she is an evil, crazy vampire and that is probably one of the things she regularly liked to do with Spike. Yes, Spike killed and most likely sexually assaulted many women during his un-life but I would assume it was not to convince those girls they loved him, not like what he did with Buffy. It is different, and no amount of rationalizing is going to make it okay for me. This was an assassination of Spike's character, plain and simple. Whedon was pissed because in Buffy's world, demons were supposed to be something she faced, defeated and moved on from (with the exception of Angel, and only because he had a soul). He was mad at Spike's popularity because he and the other writers had painted themselves into a corner with this character and didn't know how to get out of it. And in my opinion, they made the wrong call. I like where they went with him in S7 but I truly believe there were other ways to go about getting him there. As for Tara and "The Trope", I honestly think that was not the intention. In the DVD commentary for 6x09 "Smashed", the writer for that ep says that rather than put the smarmy guys in dance cages, it was originally written that Willow and Amy were going to put a spell on them to start making out with each other. But Whedon nixed the idea- he said he did not want anything sexual between people of the same sex to be considered a punishment. As sad and awful as it was, I think what happened to Tara in "Seeing Red" was simply a way to push Willow's arc forward for the season finale.