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Westworld S2E07 (Patreon)

Published:
2018-06-05 03:29:08
Imported:
2026-06

Content

There’s a lot to process this episode – the ghost of Ford, William and Lawrence and Maeve’s near-deaths, Dolores’ assault on the Mesa, further revelations on the Delos project and Valley Beyond… And as ever, each new answer raises new mysteries (:

What are your thoughts and questions for this ep?

Expecting to finish this video on Friday.

Cheers!

ASX

Files

Comments

Daniel Johnson

Man, if you can make sense of the show's convoluted musings on free will, I would be super grateful. It seems to be all over the place and contradictory.

Daniel Johnson

Also, is Ford inconsistent? Last season he was lamenting the lack of Darwinism in the progress of the human race. He said that mistakes were the necessary fuel for improvement. When he freed the hosts and left them to fend for themselves at the end of season 1, it seemed consistent with this belief. Now he's sticking around to be a helicopter parent and has even invaded Bernard's body to make the "hard decisions." Isn't he robbing them of the gift of making mistakes that would be necessary for their advancement?

Alt Shift X

Yeah I don't think Westworld takes a consistent position on free will and consciousness. They just present a bunch of different perspectives and situations to provoke your own thoughts – to find your own way through the Maze (:

Daniel Johnson

Right, I think I was more thinking of Ford's position as mentioned in my comment below. Because Ford is that character that is always one step ahead of everybody, he comes to seem omniscient and when he spouts theories we the viewers take them as the show's truths I think. I'm very interested in the idea that he's an unreliable narrator though. I just can't tell if the show's writers are intentionally writing him incoherent on the position of free will.

Boartails

This episode had some strange pacing. It felt like they just dumped a bunch of info and killed a bunch of characters in order to hurry up and wrap the damn season already. Almost felt like I was hate-watching True Blood again. Quality aside, is there more going on than even Ford knows? He seems to think he knows everything but it doesn't all add up. Also, when will we find out that the entire show is a simulation inside a simulation and Westworld is really a Matrix prequel?

Hayes Hine

I enjoyed this one. I'm a big fan of The Man in Black and nearly seeing him die... Ouch. I for sure want to see him and Delores meet up again. I expect she will kill him, or him her. I look forward to you analysis of the episode this weekend!

Rikke Holmberg

I really liked this one. I was happy to hear the door mentioned again - and now it seems that the thing in Abarnathy's head is the key to the door? Ford is now using Bernard to do his bidding? I'm not really sure I get what Ford IS now. Or maybe it's the connection between the cradle and Westworld that confuses me. Ford's conciousness has been living inside the cradle since he died? But from there he has been able to influence what happens in westworld? If the cradle is just storage for the host backups, how is this possible? Maybe I need to go and rewatch the "The cradle is fighting back"-scene. But now his conciousness has left the cradle and lives inside Bernard?

Dylan Neu

Seeing Ford's mind (or consciousness or whatever we're calling it) migrate into Bernard this episode made me think back to the scene in the forward timeline where Bernard sees the bodies floating in the water saying "I killed them all." Is this actually Ford speaking? Is he saying he killed all the hosts? Is he saying he "killed" all the "souls" or backups or what have you in the guests' data in the Valley Beyond to shut down the project? It seems to me he wants to stop "the project" and flooding the place where the data is being stored seems like a great way to do that. Not sure how the dead hosts in the water tie into that though. Either way, Ford's migration into Bernard makes us have to revaluate all the moments we've already seen that occur afterwards as if Bernard is actually Ford or under his control. As if it wasn't already difficult to know who "Bernarold" is in any scene, now we have "Ber-for-nold" (yeah... I know that was bad)

Alt Shift X

I think this tension comes from Ford's role as a creator God – how can a creator give free will to their creations, without it being another act of control? How is divine omnipotence and omniscience compatible with human free will? (Ford says he didn't compel Dolores to kill him - he just knew she would. What's the difference?)

ClassicsAbridged

Ford isn't making any sense to me either. I think there are two possibilities: The writers are having trouble holding it together or Ford actually is degrading but doesn't realize it

ClassicsAbridged

I call this issue of "is it free if you knew it would happen" the Oedipus Paradox. In the story of Oedipus he is fated to kill his father and marry his mother, both of which are things he ends up doing by accident. Strangely to a modern audience Oedipus is punished for his transgressions. The ancient Greeks apparently believed that being fated to do something didn't absolve one from responsibility for doing it. However Ford is also being disingenuous. He engineered the situation very carefully to get that result.

ClassicsAbridged

I feel like they can't decide how the hosts are supposed to work. In the first season it was clear that they weren't generally sentient even though they had the necessary hardware. In this episode Bernard talks about how the stable loops kept them "centered" which suggests they've been sentient the whole time.

Bible Spice

I'm not sure manipulation is exactly the same thing as total control. It is certainly a means of control, but based on knowing someone's priorities and values, not setting those priorities and values.

Growltiger

If it were Ford's consciousness, then I believe he would recall. After all, Ford is the grand puppet master. Befuddlement over a disaster is entirely keeping with the character of poor Bernard.