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Westworld S2E08 (Patreon)

Published:
2018-06-11 13:47:16
Imported:
2026-06

Content

What do you think of the new Westworld?

Last episode was such a frenetic, violent, sci-fi rollercoaster, it's nice to get a human, personal story this week. And the episode neatly strings together most of the defining events and symbols of the series' timeline – the Maze, Arnold, Escalante massacre, Logan's misadventure, Ford's plans, Dolores’ massacre, the Valley Beyond, the Door. Maeve, William and Emily/Grace all make appearances. So this week’s video is a good chance to clarify the overall story before the final two episodes (:

You can expect the S2E08 video around Friday (maybe Thursday). Remember that there won’t be a S2E09 video – instead, we’ll hold a Patron livestream about E09, then do a big Season 2 Finale Explained video after S2E10.

You're welcome to chat Westworld in the Patron Discord, and 3+ Patrons can access extra bits and pieces in the video-talk Discord.

Cheers!

ASX

Files

Comments

ClassicsAbridged

Best episode of the season. It feels like something pulled from any number of stories from mythology around the world. I'm curious if it references any actual myths.

Laura Viniconis

Great change of pace from the rest of the season, it Humanized Akecheta's story and intentions very well. However, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the timeline and how it correlates to the Season 1 events. Wasn't Ghost Nation introduced in season 1 as a new plot line somewhat closely preceding the events Ford initiated?

Mary

(And a question ... didn't it seem like the whole time he was talking to Maeve's daughter throughout the episode, he was actually talking to Maeve, knowing she could hear him ... somehow? And does she have within her consciousness as aspect of Kohana's? That last line by Maeve?)

The Mad Jay Woman

I think this is the first episode of the show I actually liked, probably because it was the first ep that seemed interested in telling a story instead of being deliberately opaque. McClarnon is a compelling actor and it was nice to see him get almost an entire ep to himself. It also occurred to me that the show had a nice cheat if it falls into stereotyping First Nations people given these are beings that were constructed by white people. If I did want to go down a rabbit hole, I think it's interesting that a Lakota speaking host broke through to consciousness independently, and Lakota was among the languages used by the US military for Code Talking, but then I fear falling into the trap of projecting all these interesting ideas onto the show rather than Westworld itself really having anything interesting to say... In any case I look forward to the video...

Daniel Johnson

It was extremely beautiful and moving but I'm afraid that underneath the poetry were some of the most incoherent logic holes of the series. Now I'm re-examining Arnold's plan to stop the host's suffering by euthanizing them in light of the fact that he apparently wasn't concerned about the Ghost Nation hosts.... which.... is that racist? How effective could Arnold's move even be if he was simply de-activating a bunch of robots that could be re-activated with the flip of a switch? Trying to really keep the park from opening would require some computer-system-level sabotage. This feels like a plot hole and I'm only noticing it retroactively as the show's logical consistency breaks down. Along with invalidating Arnold’s plan, this episode also seems to have invalidated what we know about Dolores’s awakening. Hers was supposed to be special, prompted by direct intervention by Arnold. So special they spent an entire season telling us the story. Likewise, Maeve’s awakenings were special and uniquely prompted by Ford’s intervention in her code (funnily, this reveal itself invalidated the idea of the “Violent Delights” trigger phrase that the show seems to have abandoned). Now we know that just anybody can awaken. Akecheta’s awakening might make a bit of sense when we learn that he went un-updated for almost a decade. But this is its own plothole. How was Akecheta allowed to go unmonitored for 9 years in the park? The hosts aren't free-range chickens. In addition to being physically traceable at all times, they exist in a park with wall to wall satellite coverage and, more importantly, are interacting with storylines all the time. If Akecheta’s religion was about stopping memory wipes, how does scalping his converts and carving the maze into their scalp further this at all? I was hoping we’d learn that he was jiggering with something in the brain pod but apparently not. And it’s not a Memento situation where if a host sees their tattoo of the maze it will keep them oriented – the tattoo is in a place where they’ll never see it. How was Aketcheta allowed to roam the corridors of WW without being seen or apprehended? I feel that this, like so many of Westworld’s plot twists, hinges on an idea of total human incompetence. I actually think the show makes a valid point that with technological advancement comes an exponential increase in human error. But sometimes they go way too far with this. I don’t know. I was hoping that if they dedicated an entire episode (especially this late in the season) to this unresolved mystery of what the Ghost Nation are up to and how they achieved their mythology of the men who walk between worlds and the Maze, that we’d get some thorough answers. But there is still much to explain. Are Maeve’s memories of being scalped by Ghost Nation warriors real? If so, how does that jive with what were told this episode? Why are the Ghost Nation collecting humans? If they are collecting humans, why did they perform that fear-of-death-ritual earlier in the season and set them free? This was the single biggest mystery involving the Ghost Nation. And we still don’t have an answer.

Mary

Well, the humans did discuss that Akecheta was not updated because he never 'died,' so did not end up having to return for the regular maintenance that happens when a host needs repair. Your point about human error amidst advanced technology is interesting — and larger issue for us in the real world. But, I think it's reasonable that a host can slip thru because of not fitting into a policy of routine need for maintenance. It was obvious in the scene that the female supervisor wanted to cover that up. In our real world, these things are less about human error, per se, more about staff shortages, incomplete corporate policies, systems that work fine until they don't then and only then do they get a revamp. I will admit I was surprised about Akecheta being able to move around under their radar. I guess they assume he was incapacitated, in 'still mode,' and he wasn't ... so is there a built in workaround in his framework that can hide his 'mode' from their sensors. I dunno. That was the thinnest bit for me.

Daniel Johnson

The park management must have considered the eventuality of tracking and updating hosts who don't die. Dying can't be the initiating factor that prompts maintenance and inventory. There must be hosts assigned to storylines that aren't violent and wouldn't put them in harm's way at all.

The Mad Jay Woman

There was that throw away line about the writers being understaffed, so are we to just assume that they were understaffed in all departments and that's why so much slips through the cracks in management (and plot)...?

Daniel Johnson

At some point in season 1 Sizemore makes a comment that lists the number of hosts in the park (the Westworld park, I'm assuming) at around 200. That's a lot of hosts but not an overwhelming number to keep track of by any means. The idea that any company would go 9 years without taking inventory... is just dumb. We could sit here and make excuses all day for the writers but this show was so much tighter last season in terms of internal logic and relative plausibility (for sci-fi).

The Mad Jay Woman

I don't even think last season was that tight... My key frustration with this show is it spends so much time puzzle-baiting Reddit rather than consistently world building (let alone telling a story). I don't need everything explained to me but I shouldn't have to rely on websites and chat rooms where the show can't or won't deliver.

Shiera Seastar

According to the actor Zahn McClarnon, Ghost Nation is based upon his own experiences as Lakota and Standing Rock Sioux, to create a new fictionalized tribe. They also brought in Lakota linguists to make it as authentic as possible.

Shiera Seastar

I could watch an entire movie starring Zahn, his performance was compelling!! :D

The Mad Jay Woman

Per the synopsis on the official site, that's exactly what was happening

Rikke Holmberg

It was my favourite episode ever. Ghost nation has intrigued me from the first time we saw them. Yeah, sure there are logical inconsistencies and plot holes and whatever, but the acting was spectacular and the tying together of all the plotlines was cleverly thought out. And the whole idea of a host reaching conciousness without the the humans interfering in any way was just beautiful.

GemmaG

I agree Rikke. I dont want to pick holes in something so moving and beautiful. Acting and cinematography was breathtaking in this episode.

Alt Shift X

Re: Arnold's Escalante massacre – I think it's better understood as an expression of Arnold's depression and despair, more than an effective plan to prevent Westworld opening. Because yeah, shooting hosts doesn't seem like it would actually do lasting damage. But committing suicide, depriving Ford of his friend... that seems more an emotional act than a material one. Re: Ake's awakening – yeah it does feel inconsistent that Dolores had a thirty-year arc to achieve consciousness, while Ake achieves it independently in one episode. I think that's just a natural consequence of where the story's at – they need multiple woke hosts, and they can't spend a full season on each one. I think increasingly, we'll see hosts like Lawrence, who seem to wake more or less spontaneously. Re: scalping – seems like an awkward retcon. I don't understand why they brought it up again this season – might have been better to leave that mystery unanswered, than to give us such a weird and implausible answer

Alt Shift X

We'll clarify the timeline in the vid (: But nah Ghost Nation has been around from the beginning - they appear in Dolores and young-William's plot in Season 1

Daniel Johnson

Agreed about Arnold. The more I think about it I do see it as the flawed actions of a very sad person. But even still, his command to Dolores was to kill all the hosts, so it seems like a plothole that she only killed the hosts in the immediate vicinity.