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S8E02 (Patreon)

Published:
2019-04-22 05:28:07
Edited:
2020-04-27 21:58:40
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

We just finished an epic three-hour stream discussing S8E02, you can watch it here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YORtZl91hs

Here's a playlist with all of the S8 livestreams:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn6yDpEottdi4ezny3XOUy59gDfSOgKWV  

What did you think of the episode? What questions do you want answered?We're now working on the S8E02 Explained video 🙂

Thanks for your support!

ASX

Files

Game of Thrones S8E02 Q&A discussion

We're holding live Q&A discussions right after each episode of GOT S8, at about 10:30pm ET Sunday Patrons can watch past streams: https://www.patreon.com/AltShiftX/posts?tag=livestreams Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCveZqqGewoyPiacooywP5Ig?sub_confirmation=1 Support on Patreon: http://bit.ly/ASXPatreon Twitter: http://bit.ly/ASXTwitter Merch: https://standard.tv/altshiftx Stream donations: https://streamlabs.com/altshiftx This is a review and discussion of GOT S8E02, using stills from the episode. This is fair use.

Comments

Jenny Zina Tavares

Do you think Dany will remember her visions in the House of the Undying and wonder if she saw Rhaegar with Lyanna, rather than Elia and that she didn't touch the Iron Throne? I wish they would have had a scene between Sansa and the Hound. I guess Theon was more important even if there were more bonding scenes where the Hound saved her and offered to take her to Winterfell? Also, I wonder if Bran has explained how the COTF made the Night King and if there would be value in the knowledge. I enjoy your livestreams. Nevermind, I realized the Rhaegar/Elia vision were not in the show. Further question below.

Quark Twain

Just how much is Bran able to see in his visions? It seems inconsistent. He needs to warg into ravens to check on the army of the dead's progress. But other events in the past he can see in his mind. It's like he sees the past more clearly than the present. And I don't know if he can see the future at all.

L-Train

IIRC, 3 eyed ravens can see the future but it isn't reliable because the future can be affected by the present so easily. Part of being the 3 eyed raven is that one has to make very careful decisions about what to reveal and when.

Paul Barry

Man, what a tough day! As I’m in Aus, watching at the broadcast time of 11am Easter Monday morning was never going to work. I’ve spent the day avoiding all social media jic I was spoilt. Finally just finished it. I thought this was a fantastic episode. I enjoyed that there was little action, because I felt all the characters moved forward. It’s one of the few times since season 4 I’ve enjoyed the dialogue all the way through. Some of the conversations really sparkled. And it made sense! I’m sure I’ll pick up a few dodgy bits on a rewatch, but I was into this one. Really looking forward to the 3hr not-so-livestream!

Rikke Holmberg

I absolutely loved it! Best episode in a long time. Yeah, so it doesn’t make sense that they’re not just sending the dragons out to scout and burn and whatever, (why did J and D not see the army on their joyride last ep?) But I do think the show runners made the right choice here. This is about life and death and what really matters to people in the face of impending doom. All the human interactions were so amazingly well done this episode. I think Sansa and Theon bonding makes more sense than you give it, since they are the only two people to survive Ramsey’s torture. Theon is the only person who understands what Sansa went through. Tyrion had some actually decent lines for a change. His wanting to learn from Bran was a return to the Tyrion in season one who wanted knowledge, because his brain is the only thing he has going for him. Brienne getting knighted was just beautiful. And I do believe we now know how Podric paid those whores, because that singing voice... oh my! I shed more than one tear for this episode. This was good. And a great setup for the hold your breath action only episode next week.

Greg Trombley

For what it's worth, I don't believe Jaime will die in the next episode. Between Jaime and Brienne, Brienne is the one who no longer has any unfinished business. She has kept her oaths, become a knight, and will lead an army to battle. It will be too late for her to act on any feelings for Jaime, but Brienne dying would possibly give Jaime his best path at redemption in the eyes of the North, by leading Brienne's company to battle bravely, and with honor.

Rikke Holmberg

Also. You’re speaking like you think Bran should be able to see the future? When was the three eyed raven ever able to do that? Isn’t it only past and present? Edit: I stand corrected. He has indeed seen a few glimpses of the future. Still a far cry from being able to tell the outcome of a battle though.

Michael Volpe

Tyrion-“The North still remembers what happened the last time targaryens brought Dragons up here”............. Ok. They named a Night’s watch castle after the good queen? They closed the Nightfort? The New Gift? What the hell is he talking about?

Maria Isabel Mendonça

Isn't suspicious that Varys wasn't seen (as far as I recall) through the whole episode?

Kenny Arnold

What were your overall impressions of the episode? Good/bad?

Kenny Arnold

They lost their independence when Torrhen Stark bent the knee... That's what I thought they were referring to.

Kelly Theobald

I don’t want to give my thoughts until I’ve seen your livestream (holy shit, 3 hours!), in case I’m completely wrong 😂 but here goes... Everyone seemed to like this episode, but I’m not sure if I did. There were a lot of really sappy moments. The dialogue has been weird this season. Too many dramatic one-liners and too much forced humor. Everyone has something witty to say, and it loses its punch after a while. I 100% ship Arya/Gendry, but I was so uncomfortable during their scene!! As Honest Trailers says, “those boobs are too wrapped up in character development for me to enjoy this!” I don’t know why Sansa/Theon is suddenly a thing. I know they have history but like...they don’t have to pair everyone up! Finally, on my list of complaints: they seem to have a terrible battle plan! Who is in charge? Who is leading the army? Where is everyone gonna be? When are they gonna use the dragons? What are the contingencies? The army is divided into too many factions, and Ned Umber can’t even tell who’s calling the shots, so how can their army? And the Bran Plan is so weak. GAHH! But for the things I did like: I love Brienne so much now after her scene. That was done SO well. Best scene this season imo. Tyrion is finally good again! They did do an excellent job setting up for the battle episode and I’m now dreading next week! So many tears will be spilt 😭

Jenny Zina Tavares

In the World of Ice and Fire it said that Viserys was named Aerys' new heir after Rhaegar's death, while his children were being held as hostages in the Red Keep. So, the Mad King disinherited Rhaegar's kids when he made Viserys his heir, correct? So Jon would have been bypassed too, wouldn't he, especially as Viserys was crowned King? But, I'm trying to remember this was written by a grey rat, so consider the source??

Jemima Vivian

Still here waiting for the face reveal ;)

Alt Shift X

I don't think the show knows what to do with Varys at this point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Erik

I largely agree with Kelly. I found both to be ~2hrs of low-effort writing and filler with occasional gems here and there (e.g. Birenne’s knighting scene). Considering 2 episodes = 1/3 of this year’s season, color me disappointed. It’s clear to me, that without the direction of GRRM’s excellent writing, the show, so far, has become a patchwork of chintzy one-liners and just-add-water, ad-hoc drama and romance.

Kazuhiro Sato

Lengths of the entire show are 430 min. First two episodes in minutes is equal to 112 min and in percentile, 26% overall. Even after third episodes, nearly 45% of the show will be gone. Also the farewells makes sense considering that Got will end in this season; no time left for sub plots and more battles. We watched GoT killed Talisa Stark (Maegyr) and Frey soldiers stabbed her belly to eliminate the storyline that their baby would revenge them. This idea fits this season as well. They don't have time to spare for minor characters and spectacle battles with CGI. GoT need to answer a lot of questions. The episodes 1&2 are just to let viewers say goodbye in 3 episodes. I guess this 'restructuring stories for better end' is the reason why GRRM is struggles to write WoW too; too many stories to integrate to make sense. Their deaths saves time and money, rather than their surviving.

L-Train

As someone who seems to pay more attention to the musical themes than any other detail, I'm profoundly interested in the scene where Arya is practicing with her new weapon and Gendry is lurking in the shadows. We hear that spoopy "Jaqen H'ghar" theme which historically has been a cue that Jaqen is present (and is perhaps wearing someone's face)... Then we see Gendry. When I saw that, I snorted wine up my nose... I guess I'd like a response to that in the S08e02 video, even if the theme was just meant to remind us of Arya using that type of weapon in Braavos.

L-Train

Along that vein, I have also noticed some other reviewers missing the detail where we hear the princess Shireen theme while the onion Knight is serving food to that little girl headed for the death crypts. Also talk about how they're sending all the women and children to the place with all those magic dead Starks during a zombie invasion... Not super smart ...or is it? They wouldn't need to feed all those people through the winter.

L-Train

Also, cut Bran's arm off and make Drogo wear it a la Jamie S03E04. DUHHH.

WarmSeoulLights

Don't even need to cut off the whole arm, just use some of the Bolton's flaying skills to establish a tattoo-removal parlour...

Alt Shift X

The Bran Plan feels very much like the Wight Heist last season - a super contrived excused for maximum drama

Alt Shift X

Just put Bran on the next ship to Asshai, problem solved

Bryan Applebaum

On the topic of Bran warging into Viserion, I’ve been guessing that may happen for a while now. I think that we actually have seen Bran warg into a zombie. In season 7 episode 1 - the march of the dead scene immediately after the opening credits - the camera zooms into the eye of a wight giant. The eye doesn’t look like the regular eye of a wight, it looks more like Bran’s warging eyes. Then it immediately cuts to bran warging. Could be Bran using the giant to keep an eye on the army’s movements, and would set the precedent of Bran’s ability to warg into the undead. Check out the scene and let me know what you think!

Kelly Theobald

Yes, the chintzy one-liners are killing me!! Leave the wit to Tyrion, and let everyone else be.

Thomas Andre Teige

All this talk and speculation about The Night's King / The White Walker's resurrecting/raising people from the Winterfell crypts just doesn't make any sense to me and I'm rather surprised to see long-term fans as yourself jumping right onto this without being somewhat sceptical or even give it any reason for thought on how that is actually supposed to work and what affects that has to the entire series and it's universe. We have no indication in the series, at least not in the TV-show that The White Walker's or even the The Night's King himself has the capability to resurrect/raise people from great distances. So unless they are getting inside the crypts it would look rather stupid and break a lot of in-universe logic for wights to just start popping out of the crypts in Winterfell. Secondly, since when did they become capable of resurrecting/raising decades old and decomposed corpses? There isn't much left in these crypts besides mostly dust and some really decomposed bones in a really rough shape. If The White Walker's and / or The Night's King is fully capable of raising such old corpses it wouldn't make much sense that burning fresh bodies is enough for them to become immune against their resurrecting/raising powers, not to mention how The Army of the Dead should have been like 100-1000x times larger and the war shouldn't really been a war due to their insane amount of wights. Westeros has existed for decades, if completely decomposed corpses can be resurrected/raised The Army of the Dead should be just stupidly large. Wouldn't work out at all. Third but not least, these corpses are buried deep down in stone/brick graves. They would have to dig themselves out, not only through solid ground but also through solid stone/bricks. Considering how every wight in the show so far has been some weak and mindless reanimation of themselves, and in the previous season a regular wooden box was enough to easy contain one when being taken from beyond the wall down to King's Landing how exactly are they supposed to break free from these graves themselves without any kind of assistance? And unless the show do some serious diversions from the books in regards to what corpses actually rest in the crypts, we won't see any notable characters from the actual show being reanimated as neither Kathlyn, Robb or Ned are resting in the crypts. The only half sensible corpse to be resurrectable and not completely decomposed would have to be Rickon. But then again, wights are rather weak so a single wight unless they left everyone in the crypts utterly defenceless shouldn't be much of a problem. Sadly I wouldn't be surprised if Weiss and Benioff would pull this off because of the amount of shock-factor it might cause to the audience, but man would it be so bad for the logic's in the show and G.R.R. Martin might just die of a heart attack straight away... What is way more realistic would be for The Night's King to contain knowledge of one of the secret passages that might lead into the crypts from outside Winterfell. The show do gives us clues about The Night's King having some kind of connection to The Three-Eyed Raven, wormwood network/greensight and a lot of people seems convinced that the man who got turned into The Night's King was a Stark so it makes sense for him to have some knowledge here that the characters in the show does not seem to take into account. Having a portion of The Army of the Dead and some White Walker's getting direct access to the crypts would be bad, and make so much more sense for the in-show universe and logic's. The whole plan and idea that The Night's King would directly expose himself in order to attack/kill Brandon in the Godswood's doesn't make much sense either. He has the numbers by a long shot, they are increasing in numbers for every new person they kill. They are in theory next-to unbeatable at this point unless something crazy and unknown happens and occur so why would The Night's King expose himself as he surely knows that if he dies everything he has been working for for a millennia goes to waste. Sure Brandon is the most important character for him to kill in order to bring the long night, but at this point he has no reason to rush it or be utterly stupid as his forces are 99% certain to wipe out everyone in the long term regardless. He can even track Brandon's location at all times.. And he is in a wheelchair with such limit ways to travel in any efficient manner. If something happens and The Night's King fears that Brandon might get away and become inaccessible for him he could always jump onto Viserion and risk getting exposed if it becomes necessary for some reason. But having him go by and directly expose himself just because he notice Brandon is sitting in the Goodswood would be so cheesy and nonsensical for him to do..... Here he spends decades building his army and get south of the wall just to throw all tactics and logic's right out of the window in the very first battle he has south of the wall? He has been a excellent war leader in the show so far, staying far behind his troops out of harms way and really risked nothing in any confrontation or battles in the series so far. Having him go all stupid now would be horrible for the show.

Jeffrey Boerst

There's quite a bit of hinting in the books, though, that the Stark Dead will rise and fight on the side of the living, eventually. The "Horn of Winter" that Sam found at the Fist of the First Men seems to be said to have that capacity, I believe.

The Wardeness

what if you created your own platform (blog/website/membership to a collaborative analytical archive) to post essays/op-eds to?