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UNCUT - Profit and Loss (DS9 S2E18) | Star Trek Journey 313 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-10-10 14:00:17
Edited:
2026-11-01 04:53:48
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Ayomide Bennett

I believe that she did love him but only because he lied to her, knowing quark he probably pretended to be an angel around her and she was too gullible to know what was happening

Ramen Nudels

Fair review above a c but not close to best of the show so far.

Derek Locke

You can feel it, can't you? The show is starting to figure out what it is.

Jeff

Mary Crosby, who played Natima, is the daughter of Bing Crosby and the aunt of Denise Crosby (even though she is two years younger). She is also a part of television history because she played Kristen Shepard on "Dallas" who, back in 1981, was revealed to be the character who (spoiler alert!) shot J.R. Ewing.

Collin Freeman

I have to go with Josh on this one. Quark and Garrick carried this episode. B at best.

D Jammers

Casablanca IN SPACE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Emptysea93

This week on DS9, Alex debates which species of alien women would degrade him most. Spoiler alert: Its all of them.

Collin Freeman

"I, the Jury" is a real book written by Mickey Spillane, the first in a series of private eye novels featuring Mike Hammer. It set a new standard in novels of that type because some of the writing was considered salacious for the time.

Joe Concepts

Not only did I forget about this one until this rewatch, I never noticed that it was so much like a Ferengi/Cardassion version of Casablanca. And Claude Rains' police captain in that movie acts very much like Garak. I don't remember if they ever said he was inspired by that character.

Alan Thompson

Its funny how the masks make you focus on recognizing prior guest star voices instead of faces. Gul Toran was played by Edward Wiley who was in a Klingon mask last time in Minds Eye, had that great swearing scene with Picard "and you speak the lies of a taah kek!"

Ee'char

and instead of transit papers, it was a cloaking device 😂

Seth Walker

This is a solid A+ for me. Armen Shimmerman and Andrew Robison really knocked it out of the park. Rene Auburjonois was also his usual excellent self. The guest performances were a little weak which is quite unusual for this series. My theory is the makeup process teamed with the tight shooting schedule probably took a heavy toll. 5 actors in full Cardasian makeup in addition to Quark and Odo probably put a real strain on the shooting schedule to the point where they weren't given the amount of takes that a single actor may be given. A complete theory on my part but it's the best I've got.

Joe Concepts

I enjoyed this rewatch more than I expected. Quark and Garak are great. I may go as far as to say Quark may be my favorite character on the show. And I buy his actions fine. Sure, we see different aspects of his character, but Quark is generally a decent guy... for a Ferengi.

Darren

One of those episode I haven’t watched that much and maybe judge too harshly so it’s nice to revisit it.

Marko

That change in behavior for her was a bit sudden. She might have really felt that way but it wasn't acted as such. But okay. Also a goof I noticed, the cloaking device fell out of Quark's hand when he was shot and it was just left there on the floor off screen. It's a small nitpick, but Odo would never have missed it when he entered the room. Overall it's an okay episode.

Darren

An episode which parts are greater than the whole I think. Garak and Quark make this episode better than it could have been I’d agree the other guests were a bit meh

paultardspambot .

the sudden change was supposed to be a surprising/humorous twist

River Acheron

I honestly don't know what happened with Andrew Robinson lol. So he played Kristy's father in Hellraiser (1987) and of course Garek in DS9 (1993), but he was TERRIBLE in Hellraiser. (and it's one of my favorite horror movies and franchises in general). As Garek he is fantastic. That dude found his acting chops during that six year period! As far as this episode goes? Eh. It's there. I don't dislike it, but on its own, it doesn't do much for me. The love story aspect brought it down, but that's a personal preference as I do not like romance plots in pretty much anything. C+

paultardspambot .

memory alpha says that was indeed an inspiration

Steven Linden

It was intended as an homage to Casablanca. I believe that while they were working on it, it was jokingly titled "Everybody Comes to Quark's".

Marko

Yep, well "supposed" is the key word there

paultardspambot .

love Odo's look in the background when Sisko explains the Bajoran governent has agreed to turn them over. So subtle but sets up his actions which fit with his chaaracter so well

paultardspambot .

I feel like it was subtle but with her holding the glass you could tell she was choosing to hold back then when she thinks she killed hthe dam breaks

harrypothead42024

This episode is fine, In my opinion the next episode starts a run of really good to great episodes.

paultardspambot .

its also a private investigator story with themes of justice amongst a corrupt background making it ideal for Odo

paultardspambot .

I'm guessing a taylor like Garak knows how to clean up his messes

paultardspambot .

yeah, for some reason cardassian women are more attractive then klingons or romulans

tyranusfan

I'd like to see Scotty and O'Brien work together. That was a missed opportunity in Relics.

tyranusfan

The more Alex makes these cryptic references to his love life, the more I think he should launch a sitcom based on it...

tyranusfan

I, the Jury is the 1947 debut novel of American crime fiction writer Mickey Spillane, the first work to feature private investigator Mike Hammer. It's canon, Odo reads crime novels. LOL

James H

I never used to watch Dallas, but it was impossible in 1981 to get away from the “Who Shot J.R.?” mania. Someone even released a novelty song about it. (I miss the days when novelty records could get airplay.)

James H

“Of all the Samarian Sunset joints in all the space stations in all the galaxy, she walks into mine!”

Philbot

This episode is basically Casablanca.

Tim Nikiforovs

I think B+ is a fair grade for this one. I do see the issues with the guest performers, the 2 students in particular had pretty phoned in performances. In Crosby's case however(maybe all of them), I think it was more an issue with the material she had to work with. I appreciate the actual story, but a lot of the dialogue is very fanfic romance in quality. It just doesn't ome off as real or true to the characters. As for Natima's sudden turn, obviously she felt regret for shooting Quark, but I wonder if part of it wasn't just an act all along. Maybe she wasn't quite as done with Quark as she initially said, and maybe she isn't quite as deeply in love as she seems at the end. I think she forgave him, and did have some feelings for him, but I also think she was overselling it to get his help. Maybe I'm giving the writing too much credit. And Garak becomes slightly less ambiguous. Obviously he wasn't always just a tailor, but what he did or why he was exiled is still unclear. But we now know the man is a stone cold killer. Not that I blame him, that guy was an ass.

Philbot

Alex is hot he’s probably like Kirk or Riker.

Philbot

Bro I feel all that! Even being apart 7 years. I haven’t seen my ex in 8 years! & I probably will never see her again. 😔

Philbot

The students do suck I was just noticing that they are wooden.

Regan

I didn't realise until I recently did a rewatch of the Dirty Harry movies, that DS9's two most frequent Cardiassians so far (Garak and Ducat) were both played by Dirty Harry villains.

Sequiro

The students are supposed to be leaders, yet they carry zero aura about them and seemed confused and weak? These two are important radical leaders? Poorly casted for sure. Natima was passable acting for me but I'm easily swayed by a pretty face. They did try to hint at her hidden love, they had multiple shots prior in the episode where they lingered on Natima where she was "holding back emotions" faced. Maybe she was too subtle to catch on a first watch? But everything else in the episode is fantastic. Garak and Quarks scenes were great watching them play off each other.

Numinous2019

It's important to remember Garek's "I love Cardassia".

TC Green

This is an okay episode that is greatly aided by Garak.

Numinous2019

Yes. Several scenes lifted (and only slightly re-worked) from 'Casablanca, not just the overall story. Garek and Quark walking away in the final shot (Bogart and Rains).

Actuarial Lurker

Cardassian "4-play"..."How many lights?"...." I...see.... 4....lights...."

Actuarial Lurker

This was a direct homage to Casablanca- they wanted to call the episode "Here's Lookin' at You" and they were threatened with legal action so changed the title

Sam Langanke

"Maybe I am an outcasted spy." You never know if Garak lies or says the truth. That's why he is such a great character.

jon bolton

I love this one, it's a B from me. I liked Mary Crosby but not the two students. Always a pleasure seeing Garak. Great things also from Quark and Odo. Alex actually says he loves Quark, i bet in the early days of TNG he never expected to love any Ferengis.

Forbidden Donut

I assume the Cardassian military might believe the Gul botched it and got shot by the trio he was after. I believe it was the same 'gun' type used by Garak that she used earlier to stun Quark. Garak also seems to think he's an unimpressive man, so perhaps the military shares that opinion and would find it believable that he fucked it up?

jon bolton

I kind of see where you are coming from Josh not buying into the love story totally, but sometimes you don't realise how much something means to you until you come close to losing it. When she shot Quark and for a split second thought he was dead it could easily have made her realise her true feelings which had been hidden by anger. God i'm going deep for once on a Cardassian/Ferengi love story too😂

Forbidden Donut

As to Garak's motivation, he said earlier in the episode he values loyalty to the state over loyalty to family, and he did say that killing the trio would make them martyrs, so I interpret that to mean he thinks keeping them alive is better for the state than letting the Gul shoot them.

jon bolton

I'm sure that Garak would happily take the credit for the unfortunate accident of the Gul when he talks to his Cardassian contacts.

Sam Langanke

This mirrors the use of his log as Noir style voice over in Necessary Evil. Odo IS a Mike Hammer kind of private detective. Which is ironic because Picard also plays one as Dixon Hill but as captain is not at all the cynic lonely wolve Hammer and Odo truely are.

Collin Freeman

I know Andrew Robinson played the iconic villain in Dirty Harry. Who did Ducat play and in which film?

Collin Freeman

I noticed that, too. That was the 1 clue by the director that viewers could pick up on the fact she might not be totally truthful about Quark.

Forbidden Donut

Also, I believe this is the episode where Armin Shimerman said he was told by the director to play it serious, but apparently he later heard from the writers and/or producers that they had envisioned him playing it more as a joke. If I have that right, I'm glad it worked out the way that it did to give Quark more depth/layers. I think making it silly would have hurt the episode and boxed him in more as a character.

Wizardling

Love is often a rollercoaster of emotions, including denial and sudden mood swings from one extreme to another. So I bought into that just fine.

jon bolton

I liked seeing that different side to Quark that we don't often see, not that i don't love how he usually is.

jon bolton

It was shown in 'Cardassians' that there's no love lost between Garak and Du Kat, and Du Kat is very much a fan of the military, so possibly Garak might think a change in policy would be a good thing for him and Cardassia, or maybe he just took the opportunity to kill someone he had a past grudge against. Either way yeah it was a good callback to what he was explaining to Julian.

jon bolton

Dirty Harry is one of my favourite films, so i knew about Andrew Robinson the first time i saw him in DS9, and at a convention even congratulated him on playing twisted characters so well, mentioning his role in that. I didn't realise Du Kat had been in one of the films too, i need to rewatch those it seems. Another role where Andrew Robinson was a weirdo was as a barber in Child's Play 3, but Chucky dealt with him lol.

jon bolton

I pretty much agree with all of that.

jon bolton

I certainly mostly agree about Romulan women, that hairstyle is off putting but there was the Captain in The Enterprise Incident, and Saavik was supposed to be half Romulan, i admit i find quite a few Cardassian women attractive, and the occasional Klingon though including B'tor from the Duras sisters, oh god i hope i said the right one...the one with the softer voice.😂

jon bolton

Interesting to know, certainly news to me that he was that Klingon.

jon bolton

Yeah, i can relate to that

reactive1

Garak should have been a regular character. He’s great.

Scarpad’s Domain

Andrew Robinson Rules, He is so great playing both SIdes of Menace and Sincerity, and Yes its amazing how good Armin is and How far their opinion of Ferengi's have come from their early TNG days. Mary Crosby was Fine too as was the Gul captain, a well written episode. Since the Students were not the Main Focus their flat performance doesn't bother me

Scarpad’s Domain

He is in it enough that he elevates any episode he's in

Scarpad’s Domain

I think it how she always felt but could'nt show it, but i agree it came on rather fast but she did just accidently shoot him

Josh Mariota

the conversation between Bashir and Garak in the beginning sort of explains the line, "and I love Cardassia"

Regan

Marc Alaimo played a Mafia thug who gets beaten up by Callahan in The Dead Pool.

JoeMama47

I think this episode proves that Quark is a complete character and not just a caricature. He is shallow and self-centered, but you can understand his motives and predict his responses.

John A

I enjoyed this one, but agree the guest were not great. This one seems to have a lot of Casablanca (1942) type scenes. Not going to spoil the movie Casablanca if you have not seen it. Great Movie. the best. I, The Jury, is a real Mickey Spillane novel and has been made into movies I, the Jury (1953) and I, the Jury (1982)

Dark Kronis

i always saw it as she needed Quarks help, but knew she couldn't stay, so she was trying to keep him away emotionally, but then shooting him broke the dam, she had really cared for him and couldn't deny it any more, honestly it one of the most interesting romances trek done, first time i have wanted to know the backstory of how they met and got together

Edweirdo

Not just Casablanca scenes, but the entire plot is just Casablanca in SPAAAAAAACE!!!!

Miranda

Yes , the guest stars in this one aren't great. They drag down the episode. I don't buy the "students" as terrorists or revolutionaries. For the missing Gul, the Cardassians will likely just blame it on the escaped "terrorists". After all, they think Garak was trying to help them. However, the episode is a cute tribute to Casablanca. Quark is great in it. I like seeing this different angle on Quark. I actually don't think this is that far out of line with what we see from Quark in the series. As Alex says, people can behave very differently when they are in love. I like the Quark/Odo scene. I also love Garak in it. For the meaning of the ending, I think Alex is on the right track. Garak says in this episode that he didn't agree w/the government's order to kill them. So, apparently he thinks it is better for Cardassia if their movement lives on. In the opening scene he tells Bashir that personal loyalty isn't important, and it is loyalty to the state that is important. Apparently he doesn't equate the current government with the "state".

BN13

I actually completely agree with Josh regarding Natima and her feelings toward Quark. I had the same reaction when I watched this episode a month ago. When she 180d right after she shot him, her reaction completely caught me off guard. I believed her too when she said she wasn't in love, and I thought they were going to stick with that. And speaking from experience, I think if she did stick with that, it would have been more realistic. Sometimes one person completely moves on and the other one has a hard time letting go. But what we got was still ok. I also give this one a B.

BN13

I think part of it too was it was all over for that Gul once he questioned Garak's autonomy. He might have actually shot the students up until that point, but after that Gul stupidly revealed his plans, there was no reason for Garak to carry out the plan anymore, or keep the Gul alive. And yes, he believes that letting them go, and getting rid of people like that Gul is ultimately what's best for Cardassia.

HeatheЯ

This is the way I saw it too. I felt she was so strong in her NOs to Quark because Cardassians take their politics/military very seriously and she's not to give herself permission to expose any emotions, but after she shoots him they just all spill out.

Shortskirtsandexplosions

Now that I've finally seen the episode for the first time... I appreciate showing a more sinister side of Garak, especially this early on. The moments between Garak and Quark, Quark and Odo were great. I appreciate the dialogue-intensive moments, especially with the hidden meaning behind so many words. I agree with Josh on the guest characters, though. They were quite wooden. And while the episode was well-directed, I felt that it was intensely OVER-written. Don't get me wrong, the dialogue-intensive moments worked REALLY WELL... on occasion. But for the most part--especially with Quark and Natima--it felt waaaaaaay to repetitive and time-wasting. For the same reasons Josh did, I found it hard to emotionally "buy into" the love between those two. I also echo the sentiment of "how are we going to recover from this" in terms of the escaped Cardassians and the vaporized Gul. If it hasn't been discovered already, ya'll will see that sometimes consequences are either fully obsessed over in DS9... or absurdly ignored. Like... what happens with the Bajoran prisoners in the exchange, now? And does Odo suffer any fall out from Sisko or Kira? How many times will we see Odo "break" the law instead of going by the book... and still be Odo? Definitely a mixed episode, but I think the high points surpass the low points. About a 6.5 out of 10 for me.

Nolan

Well, now I'm REALLY curious what your takes on Casablanca would be.

Nolan

I said this in my take, but it was written as a Casablanca parody, with overt references, but in the dailies they saw the actors were not playing the role comedically, but serious, and realized it kinda worked and took out all those references to make it less parody.

Matt-o-Matic

Anytime Andrew Robinson's Garak is in an episode it is an instant A for me. He is my favorite character in all of Trek.

StealthMomo

Josh, I’m pretty sure that animals are self-aware. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t interact with humans in the manner that they do. Not to mention their interactions within their various groups packs prides flocks etc etc etc. Yes, varying degrees of self-awareness, but self-aware nonetheless.

HeatheЯ

I thought Alex's take on this was great as far as Garak letting them live on rather than having them become martyrs and now I want to consider that. My view was always that Garak thought Gul Toran was not what he valued Cardassia should be and that Toran gaining status by completing his mission was intolerable to Garak. So, he'd rather vaporize him than allow that to happen (because he loved Cardassia).

Not Applicable

Of all the gin joints on all the space stations in all the galaxy, she had to walk into Quarks.....

GreenCauldron08

You can see Quark hide the cloaking device behind a table just before they let Odo in

GreenCauldron08

I assume Garak and Quark could just say it was those "terrorists" who killed the Gul

GreenCauldron08

I'm really excited for the rest of your season 2 reactions! Thanks for the fun watch, as always!

Some Guy

I keep expecting a Sisko's Log during the opening credits

Marko

@GreenCauldron08 Hey you're right, I stand corrected! Thank you!

KingPin124

Haha, awesome reaction 😂🤜🤛 Great episode too.

Paul

I agree with Josh that the guest performances were subpar, and it made buying into the romance hard. But the overall storyline and especially Garak's inclusion push this into high B territory. It could have been even better, but still very enjoyable.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

The state comes first Cardassians are such a wonderful window into a different school of thought

Jonathan Llyr

I think that the guest actors might have been slightly weak but I wouldn’t say they were “bad.” There have been worse guest performances on TNG that you’ve let slide. Quark, Odo and Garak are always brilliant so it easily makes up for any deficiencies in performances from others.

Malamute

Love Garak. I think ya missed the connection of Bashir and Garaks talk at the beginning.

paultardspambot .

I thought it turnd out to be a dream? never saw the show but am aware of "who shot jr?"

Jeff

No, the Who Shot J.R. storyline was real (within the show, I mean). In a later season, Patrick Duffy's character Bobby was killed off, but a year later he wanted back on the show, so they just said his wife Pam had dreamed the whole season and started it over again. It was so ridiculous I loved it.

BN13

The scene between Garak and Quark in Garak's shop is one of many reasons why people generally consider DS9 to be the most well written show even if it isn't their favorite show.

ryler05

The assassination mission was covert and went against the already said agreement of prisoner exchange, so the Cardassians can't say anything really.

Captkirc

There is a famous scene between Quark and Garak in a future episode (that even the name of the episode is a spoiler) that the Director told the actors to play comedically but the two actors felt so strongly they went to the show runner and got their way to great benefit of the scene and series. Armin said it was only time he ever went over a director’s head on the show.

Zenlike Creature

Ah, plain, simple Garak. One of the best characters in DS9, for me anyway. A great episode!

International Man of Leisure

I love that when Ferengis plead, they bring their wrists together just under the palms & hands pushed back. Basically how it would look with someone pleading in handcuffs.

Deliximus

Garage is one of the best characters in ALL of Trek.

Skye Maidstone

Agreed I always loved Garak. The bad guy from that Clint Eastwood Dirty Harry movie. Awesome actor

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version QUARK SCORES!!!!! And shoots. The sex score board Quark 4 +1 new Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 GUEST: Natima +1 new DETAILS: This is a stretch but we are assuming some sneaking away quickie.