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UNCUT - Blood Oath (DS9 S2E19) | Star Trek Journey 315 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-10-15 14:00:13
Edited:
2026-11-01 04:53:45
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Thicketdweller

I wish I was home to watch this right now, Oh well, it’ll be a couple hours. I’ll be back. This is one of the reactions I have been waiting for

Fedora The Explorar

Love the Klingon outline. My third most hyped episode for you guys to watch of the second season.

Collin Freeman

All hail the Klingon GOAT, John Colicos!

EnigmaticPenguin

Been so excited for this one that I bought it early. Hopefully you love it and don’t crush my tender soul.

Joe Concepts

Can't really fault you guys for not picking up on those BEING the TOS characters right away. The age and different looks of course don't help. Not to mention, press info, etc, at the time probably prepared us. And many of us remembered those characters thanks to decades of reruns. You've only seen them once or twice. And not recently.

Thicketdweller

Houston, we have comprehension The recognition on John calicos starts the avalanche

Thicketdweller

I’m guessing the reason you don’t recognize Kohloff is because you didn’t really like the trouble with triples

Collin Freeman

This is a C episode that is only elevated to a B for me due to the fan service of the 3 Klingons returning from TOS.

Thicketdweller

John Colicos did not want to wear the new Klingon prosthetic make up and resisted and fought it until they finally put their foot down and told him he was going to wear it if he was going to do the show

Collin Freeman

I am with you guys: the build up of having the 3 returning Klingons from TOS did not meet the expectation of what it turned out to be. Let's face it, the actors were all old. Having them in a fighting episode was probably not the best move. The producers and director were not willing to try and explain the discontinuity between their characters' physical appearance. They opted to go with the extra bells and whistles instead.

Thicketdweller

Go do that Klingon thing you need to do even if you kill someone. You have plot armor

D Jammers

There's just no pleasing you guys!!! LOL

Keith S

I think I like it better when you like an episode more than I did.

Thicketdweller

I’ve never been clear on whether or not the DAX from Star Trek six the undiscovered country, the crewman who had the gravity boots in their locker Was or was not occurs on Dax the unusual feet on the crewman decks makes me wonder, but also Kruman Dax is not a title. You would normally hear for someone who negotiates Star fleet/Federation treaties.

Elizabeth N

Don't blame you for not recognising or remembering the three Klingons right away. I didn't either when I first watched as I'm also not a huge fan of TOS Klingons. The three of them returning and their relationship with Dax is really cool, but I think the episode is mostly loved due to that nostalgia factor rather than real quality. I like the episode, but I don't love it.

Ryan

Shameless fan service, but I'm not immune to that. The actors were a little too old to be doing all the physical scenes, but the multiple scenes that reflected on the nature of honor and death were really nice stuff. I think a B is about right.

Joe Concepts

What if the Albino was just a really pale Irish guy?

Philbot

I was waiting for them to recognize John Colicos or the name Kor.. 🤦‍♂️

Philbot

I hadn’t seen all of TOS in the 90’s but I knew of them and was bought into the legacy!

Philbot

Koloth is the same actor who played Trelane.. Bit of a Curzon retcon, but given what we know of his character you can see him being a badass! and pall ing around with Klingons.. PS Kor is an ally! 🏳️‍⚧️ she corrects him “Jadzia” and without missing a beat he’s like Jadzia my old friend!

THE LORE!!!

"occurs on Dax" I know you meant to say Curzon... But I love when people do accidental 'bone apple tea" style typos.

Thicketdweller

I do run into these problems with Siri periodically as I cannot visually go back and look at the typed words sometimes as it’s reading, it sounds phonetically correct and I let it go in this case curse on kurzon ( I’m not even sure that’s the correct spelling) was a issue more than an intended typo

Joe Concepts

The fight scenes can get repetitive here, so maybe that last fight isn't quiet as exciting as it could be. But give it up to these guys who are probably about 70 years old for doing their best in the fights. It looks like it's them a lot of the time.

Thicketdweller

I have thoughts on albino’s and head ridges, but I’ll keep them to myself

Marko

Koloth appeared in a TOS episode The Trouble with Tribbles. Also humans live longer too in 23rd and 24th century, it's common to reach 120-140. You yourself saw McCoy at 137 years old in the first episode of TNG. Makes sense, most common diseases that kill us today will have been eradicated by the 23rd century. Coming into triple digits would be equivalent of reaching 60 for us today. As for the episode, I am disappointed you didn't liked it as I hoped you would, but that's okay :). I was also looking forward to this one, marked it on a calendar :D But it is completely fair, different things work for you. And you are also seeing it for the first time, which is a perspective many of us cannot completely relate to.

Harry Broos

I like your Klingon names lol

Dark Kronis

a interesting fact, there was only originally going to be one main recurring Klingon in TOS, but each time they were busy with other commitments, so a new actor was brought in, and thanks to that we got this amazing episode

Darren

Always enjoyed this episode - some great scenes in here and who can’t but help love that they brought back 3 original Klingons slapped them in new makeup and make no reference to it!

Doctor Pulaski

Klingons age like Dwarves Vulcans age like Elves Humans age like Humans McCoy ages like Gandalf

Darren

Re Jadzia - definitely the most improved character by this point of the show. It’s like the producers suddenly realised what Terry Farrel could do.

David Wayne Fox

This episode is highly praised among fans, but I only found it just okay for the same reasons spelled out here. I also believe the makeup issue was problematic, and I really didn't care all that much about the albino. However, I love all the stuff with Dax and her decisions.

Doctor Pulaski

No shame in being a Banger!! B is a good score, and is accurate for this episode. First time I watched this, I had no idea who those Klingons were, I just thought they were meant to be old ass Klingons, and I enjoyed it. If Jadzia had the killing blow, it would have given the Kira scene and the final return scene much more gravity - this and a little PG-13 fake blood would have elevated it to an A. Less cheesy costumes for the henchmen and a more imposing actor for the Albino would make it an S.

Derek Locke

This is where spoilers are helpful sometimes. I remember it being a big deal and that it had been announced before the episode that those guys were going to be on the show. Because of that, I rewatched all of their TOS episodes the week leading up to this episode airing. (By the way, that meant figuring out which VHS tape I had those TOS episodes recorded on!)

xadg

I've got to agree, the ending lets this episode down. Generic goons and bad combat. The Albino is quite underdeveloped as well.

Duncan McDonald

Bit plodding in places, but some great scenes. Kira / Dax was great. Some nice camera work too. Get your observations around the episode's weak points but overall I really enjoyed this one.

Vina

Giving it a B sounds fair. It's a fun side-quest to watch, even though lore-wise its important to Dax. Maybe a little warm of a take but I thought the combat wasn't that bad, esp for that era. It makes sense that Klingons and other aliens don't age like humans. Worf's son Alexander was just a year old when he came aboard the Enterprise but looks like he's about 5. If you think about the ancestral environment for Klingons, an offspring maturing as rapidly as possible makes sense, lowering the risk of being eaten or otherwise killed; humans take around a year just to walk, not to mention talking, etc taking even longer!

Target Audience

Can’t argue that a refresh of the episodes would have helped

Doctor Pulaski

Yes, on a small CRT standard def television, the action is pretty great for a show airing at 4:00pm on a Saturday afternoon. Winrich Kolbe made those old men into fierce warriors!

Kirkinson

This is one of those episodes that shines more brightly in memory than it does when you actually watch it. I think there are several really great scenes in it, and those are the parts I remember when I think about it. But the pacing just feels off, and the battle can't match the epic tone they were trying to build toward. Right on about Dax though! Terry Farrell and the writers finally feel like they're fully in sync when it comes to her character, and it's really satisfying to see that unfold in a rewatch.

Fedora The Explorar

Putting Playing God above Blood Oath is absolutely wild to me but that's why you're my favourite Trek content creators, you have very big opinions and it is always a delight and really interesting to participate in them instead of someone just going "yeah wow that was really good"

Tim Nikiforovs

McGandalf "Well what are you all standing around for? Fly you damned fools."

Darren

I think B on reflection is about right for this one. Tho the Kira and Dax stuff almost pushes it to A.

Emptysea93

I understand why yall didn’t like the Klingon representation, but man if this isn’t the episode that begins to turn Dax from just “Token technobabble repeater” to one of the best trek characters ever.

Tim Nikiforovs

I'd still give this episode an A, maybe on the lower end. I agree the bad choreography and lack of blood really breaks the immersion in the ending fight scenes. The Albino is also pretty forgettable. Still I do think bringing back the big 3 klingons from TOS is a big plus, and I for one don't care about putting them in the TNG makeup. I actually feel Koloth comes off better here than in Tribbles. He almost seemed like more of a troll than anything in that episode, while here he's arguably the most disciplined of the 3. Kang was my favourite TOS klingon, and it's cool he got the killing blow. And of course it's great to see Colicos back as Kor. I love the scene at the bar where's he's acknowledging he isn't the warrior he once was. In that respect, the actors being old works in the episode's favor. Kang's insistence on going on the mission despite it clearly being a trap acknowledges that he like the others knows he's in his final years, and there's not likely to be many more opportunities to die in battle or avenge his son's death. And of course, seeing the writers finally figure out how to use Jadzia in the show is a huge point in the episode's favor. In S1 and early S2 you never guess she could grab a bat'leth and fight. Some great scenes with Kira as well. However I don't think Kira was proud of her at the end. I think that look was more "I hope you can live with it". So while it's not IMO the S tier a lot of people say it is, I still think it's one of the stronger entries this season. Top 10 anyway.

Derek Orr

It was epic at the time this happened. But seeing it now really highlights how forgettable Kang and Koloth were …Kor from errand of mercy was really the only signature Klingon (until Star Trek 3 and then TNG) I do LOVE however how this is a perfect example of how to do call backs and Easter egg things…unlike today’s media which you guys are more used to , this was not bi Hitting us over the head with hey wink wink remember how we all took on Kirk and the enterprise back in the day…it was not overtly fan service level 100

Derek Orr

Umm ya not at all the same Dax

Derek Orr

I don’t want a discount

Derek Orr

All this talk about Pops just sounds like they are talking about getting a Coke 🤷‍♂️

Sam Langanke

"Come up with some reason ..... And fix it more? .... That sounds a bit dumb...." Really? Interesting.

Sam Langanke

This is the first time I paid for early access Should have saved the money.

Ian Westcott

I would still give this episode an A. I enjoyed the siege at the end, but I do agree that the action is very... TV-PG, no blood, etc. However, TNG Klingon episodes with some small exceptions had the same problem. Despite those flaws, I still wouldn't actually change a thing about this one. It's a real stand-out episode for me. I truly loved all three of the Klingon warriors. They built that big platform that Data sat on in Masks, then wondered "uhhh, whatever else can we use this for?" It became the Albino's platform where he gets stabbed.

Ian Westcott

At that point, I think it was sympathy from Kira -- she's one of the few who knows what Dax is going through now.

Ian Westcott

I don't think it would have been the same Dax, because as far as we know, the Trill symbionts can only really bond with human Trill (Riker was a very short term exception), not people of other species, and if Dax HAD somehow crossed that barrier, they would have made a big deal to it. So I would say the ST6 Dax is totally unrelated, just a guy named Dax.

Ian Westcott

Did you not watch Genesis? That's what they were saying about us. :-D

Ian Westcott

I think Colicos might have had a bit of a conflict of interest; when Star Trek didn't have the budget to do the makeup effects that were called for, Colicos co-designed the OG Klingon look and suggested they look like "Genghis Khan types."

Shortskirtsandexplosions

I've generally always liked this episode, but not enough to double down on it like some defensive fanboy. Do I think the final fight could use more blood? Not necessarily, but watching it these days I can definitely see how it's very much just a "low energy" Power Rangers fight. When I first watched this episode, I made absolutely ZERO connections between the guest stars present and their original appearances as Legacy Klingons. In short, I always took them at face value, and I felt for them THROUGH Jadzia's emotional interactions with them. I personally think the episode was designed for that purpose--perhaps as a fallback. In short, it doesn't really *matter* that the three Klingons are Legacy characters. Perhaps, though, that works AGAINST this episode, because that factor is more distracting than provoking in any way. If I made a list of top 10 episodes of DS9 thus far, I might still include this in them, but I'm not too terribly attached to it. I really like Kor's character and it's very nice to see more exploration of Dax's character.

Shortskirtsandexplosions

Something that I keep in mind--anticipating the future of Target Audience's Trek run--is that there were some things that were indeed "spoiled" for 90s Trekkies BEFORE episodes like this even air'd. Even if the Internet wasn't as big as it is now, Paramount put out lots of advertising when it felt like pushing key television installments. I vividly recall billboards around where I lived as a child promoting stuff that hadn't air'd yet. No doubt, Alex and Josh will roll in and be (righteously) p'd off at certain reveals before they "canonically" happen on screen, even if very subtle. But that's because the program(s) at the time were tailor'd to the people watching then and there, and most likely taking into account reveals they were willfully shown in advertising/promotions. I suppose that's what makes a modern day "blind" reaction binge all that more special (and frustrating) for the likes of Alex and Josh.

StealthMomo

Well, I was completely wrong about what your reaction to this episode would be. I was certain you were going to love it. I was kind of taken aback by your cold reaction. Not that you don't have some points. And your reasoning is understandable. Still...

Philbot

I forget who lived the longest? William Campbell? But John Colicos was the voice of Apocalypse in the 90’s X-men animated. And Micheal Ansara Kang was the voice of mister Freeze from Batman the Animated Series. It was nice to bring these guys back 30 years on.. They were the first 3 Klingons! Main characters anyways.. and Kor being the literal first Klingon as the last survivor.

Philbot

I love Kor, but DS9 makes him kinda a fool. In TOS Kor was twisted!

Philbot

He’s barely in it, but he gives a good performance.

Philbot

I feel that complaining about foreheads is a bit pedantic. Fans can be pedantic, but at the end of the day it’s a fictional tv show.. also it’s a bit like Oh no these characters I don’t remember from an era I don’t like Klingons look different!?” Really? 🙄

Actuarial Lurker

I viewed this as a low A: a high A for Jadzia and fan-service and a B minus for schlock fight scenes

Darren

It never bothered me but I hadn’t seen much of TOS when if first saw this episode

paultardspambot .

you don't need to think to think that. Its just something unexplained. (the head ridgde thing) Looking back at TOS the Klingons were more totalitarian but had the honor thing a bit. Also, Kirk really dislikes klingons in TOS which makes his attitude in star trek six more understandable. Its not as much a break as you guys think when you actually go back wand watch the episodes with klingons. He does seem to legitimstely sortof hate klingons even bac then

TC Green

I just realized rewatching this that when Kor forces open the holosuite doors in the begining they used the original series sound effect for the door opening.

TC Green

So in pro wrestling a “pop” is slang for an exciting crowd reaction. So for example the good guys entrance music hits and the crowd cheers really loudly, they call that a “pop.” So when these guys use it they mean it is something that made them react loudly, usually in a positive way.

TC Green

Agree completely. The fight scenes are bad but Dax is really starting to come into her own as a character between this and Playing God.

Algol

One of the reasons I really like this episode is how reminiscent it is of the Three Musketeers

Sequiro

I would consider this one a solid A. Honestly this episode was the main one from this season I was excited for you to see. Not only being a Klingon episode but also being a great Dax episode which you guys were waiting for. So waiting almost 2 seasons for it to get here and you guys not super love it, saddened my heart. But you still liked it. B is still a nice score and I can see your points. I personally feel that a reason it doesn't hit that S level is they didn't give it time to really cook. This should be a 2 parter. They build up this "Quest" but the quest only ends up a few minutes at the end. I think it deserved to breath, with the first episode being solely Dax's struggle about honoring the Blood Oath and getting the approval of everyone. The 2nd episode being the actual quest. They could have fleshed it out. Given more Albino scenes/interaction. Give him much better and suitable warriors at the compound besides a bunch of putties and better battle sequences with some damn fake blood on the blades lol. The actor playing the Albino seemed to do a pretty good job, but they gave him hardly any time.

Forbidden Donut

I see we've reached another milestone where an episode like Genesis knocks their socks off, and then Blood Oath is a B lol Can't always be on the same page, I suppose, but wow lol

Sir, This is A Quark's.

I forgot the completely silent scene at the end. I have to say, I really liked how confident the writers were to include this. This is S2 of the "not TNG" trek at the time. This series (ESPECIALLY from the dramatic irony standpoint I get) really excelled at "doing it's own thing." Excited for this journey with you guys.

Adin

This episode is fine but i think it gets glazed way too much by the fandom. I just dont really have that big of a connection to Kang, Kor and Kolos, just because they were in TOS. Despite the look, which i could excuse it doesnt help that they act nothing like they did back then. It’s neat that they came back, dont get me wrong, but i dont think this episode is the great homage or love letter to TOS that some people make it out to be. Despite the Klingons just being there, for me this episode really has nothing to do with TOS.

Narnman

This is quite a good episode I feel they spend far too much time arguing about whether or not Dax should go with them. Just when it seems like they might let her come there is still some dissent and she then has to convince another of them to accept it. That's 2/3rds of the episode right there them just arguing with eachother. The scenes become a bit repetitive which slows down the episode

Narnman

another satisfied customer

Mark Chrisco

I've sometimes been disappointed in your reactions, but, this is the first time it depressed me. Sometimes you concentrate a bit too much on the technical elements (costumes, makeup) and miss the heart of the story the episode is trying to tell.

Narnman

Funniest is the Albino uses his head guy as a human shield on the stairs

Numinous2019

The show will do far better episodes on the personal stakes and cost of combat. This S2 episode feels more like TNG to me. That show could not go to the places DS9 could, as it would have broken the essential spirit TNG was made in. This is not a dig at TNG, just a consequence of the format and the intent behind TNG.

Jonathan Llyr

Since I’d spent decades watching Original Series episodes exclusively over and over and over again, it was totally easy to recognize all of the Klingons as they first appear in the episode when it first aired so it’s understandable that you didn’t clue in until later only having seen the original show once through. The make-up didn’t obscure who they were at all for me, and all of their voices are unmistakable. I think this episode is a joy from start to finish just because you get to spend time with those characters again. John Colicos used to frequent a few pubs in The Annex area of Toronto many years ago before he passed, and I’d often get to see him and talk to him while sharing a drink at the bar about his career and his time in Star Trek and on Battlestar Galactica. He was a wonderful guy and I’m really glad that I got to know him a little.

jon bolton

This is an A from me. Remember it's not just Klingons who can have a long life, remember Bones in Farpoint.

David Jevón

When you get senior citizens who played as Captain Kirk's enemies in TOS to come back as the highest level of Klingon warrior from an entire race of warriors - and you show them hobbling onscreen, no CGI - it's a nod to them for being the theater actors they are. They said let's do a Klingon play. I thought it was awesome for just doing it.

DG

Picard: So, how old are you Mr. Worf? Worf: Old enough. All Klingon age discussions draw me back to that interchange for some reason.

Forbidden Donut

Regarding the updated Klingon makeup, to me that's the same as how they've updated the way they create more detailed looking models for the space ships, or how they've updated the visual effects when someone shoots a phaser compared to how they looked in TOS. Bringing everything more in line with the current look and feel of TNG/DS9 makes the most sense IMO.

Josef Nitervol

It's a B it kind of misses the mark but I don't why.

Captain Proton

Alex's "woke Klingon era" joke made this episode so much better

Tasha Yar's Positronic Vibrator

I think Klingons reach physical maturity about twice as fast as humans do, and then after that they age slower.

Strife

This is funny AF. The absolute lack of reaction is amazing. 10/10

Ca$hWednesday

Honestly, I think everything you said about this episode is fair. I also like the Jadzia parts of this episode more so than the legacy Klingons. It took me longer that I'd like to admit back in the day to realize that these were in fact old TOS Klingons. I enjoyed it because we finally get to see that "real Jadzia" a bit more.

reactive1

It was good seeing the three TOS Klingons, but this is a great Dax episode. B

reactive1

This is another episode where we get a glimpse into the lives of the previous Dax hosts. That really adds a lot to the character.

Badger

The Meloria Effect. Sometimes you love episodes that we find meh Sometimes you are meh on episodes that we love Keeps it fresh because I can tell you how every other reactor out there is going to react.

Sainjl

Having still not watched TOS, I like this episode more now than when I first watched it. I appreciate the three distinct performances from the three actors, and the mini arc they have in the way each of them accepted Jadzia in the end. Kor, who feels the most past his prime, being the one to survive is nice.

Badger

Poptacular!

Leanna

While it can be a bit disappointing when you guys don't love an episode as much as the fanbase does, I do appreciate that you're honest in your reactions and don't pretend to love absolutely everything like some reactors do. It makes it so much better when you DO love something because you know it's genuine.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Yeah agree with that, I think they could have even put the introductions and quest storyline in an earlier episode, then come back to it several episodes later for a big action sequence.

River Acheron

I really never connected with this episode. I had not seen TOS when I first watched DS9. (for me I binged, TNG, DS9, VOY, and THEN finally TOS about a year ago, reluctantly, and only for completions sake. I ended up liking it far better than I thought I would, but it's not my favorite Trek. I know. Blasphemy. I am still getting through Enterprise as we speak. My point is though I never bonded with this episode without the TOS background and by now, it's too late. lol. Aside from that, I don't love the action sequences and I tend to like my Klingon episodes to be about political turmoil, corruption, societal ills, and things like that. It's not a BAD episode by any means, but I can't rate it any higher than a C. Edit: I have been thinking. This episode really is NOT about Klingons at all. They are the dressing. This is literally a sequel or followup to Playing God in that this episode is about Jadzia coming to terms with Curzon and her relationship with him and feelings that, as a newly joined Trill, she doesn't understand yet. It's a Trill episode disguised as a Klingon one. I am willing to say C+ but I do think Playing God and Dax (season 1) did this way better. So okay, I love what this episode did but I still didn't love the episode if that makes sense.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Well TA, I hope you are happy now that you've crushed the joy of your Patrons... In all seriousness though, it's a decent episode but really needs some better editing. I admit I don't really remember the Klingons in TOS but I do recognise the incredible voices of Michael Ansara and John Colicos. Some of the earlier dialogue scenes were great but others fell flat. The last act was a bit weird, they should have cut the scene where Koloth(?) goes off to 'ask someone' if the albino is home, and the bit where Dax says "I'm lost..." it completely undermines the serious tone set up earlier. Plus, hire some more stunt guys, I swear there were only two of those helmet / visor dudes.

River Acheron

shhhh. Don't go there! All in due time.

Badger

Dun da da dun, da da dunn..

Call ‘Em Greg

This is what I shared with the Bridge Crew when we got this drop last week: “Just wrapped up watching your reaction. This is what I have to say about your guys’ feelings on this one: I totally get it. I found myself nearly completely agreeing with nearly everything you said prior to reading the Takes. This episode lacks energy, and where I differ from you, I completely blame the director Winrich Kolbe. This episode really needed someone who would embrace the “kick some ass” aspect of the final act, and for that I think we really needed Jonathan Frakes or Cliff Bole. I do know that they basically ran out of time while filming the battle in the end. Kang’s awkward death is a result of them not having time to set cameras up for a closeup. Also…a little blood on those blades would have raised the stakes. But, yeah, we’re left with ‘by the numbers’ directing which this episode did not need. It needed more. But I still give it an S. Yep, there are far better episodes, but watching those three old farts gives me a big smile, and at the end of the day, that’s what its all about.”

Paul O'Neal

Agreed 100%. I was initially surprised by their reaction, but the guys' explanations all made sense and I don't necessarily disagree. But as someone who grew up watching TOS (and many times) this one is just gold to me. S, but it's purely a subjective S.

TinMan_7B9

I give this a B(+) as well, but I think I like it more than you guys (The way you talk about this episode, it seems you would rather give it a C) I always thought the revenge mission to avenge kids we've never heard (or cared) about is pretty meh. The final "battle" is also not spectacular or long enough to impress as a supposedly epic final stand. The brightly lit outdoor scenes look out-of-place and Guard "Helmet" is hilariously cheap and goofy. But I do like every character scene on the station with Dax and the three old Klingons. John Colicos was excellent as an old drunk.

Aaron Wells

Looking forward to another hundred episodes of watching you guys squirm through the opening credits lol. Was wondering if you'd be able to spot the TOS actors through the new makeup. I thought the most poignant moment was the last scene. Dax wordlessly traumatized, Sisko wordlessly disappointed and angry, Kira wordlessly sympathetic and understanding.

Aaron Wells

There was a probably baseless rumor a while back that Quentin Tarantino had been shopping an R-Rated Star Trek script around, trying to tell a story about a pair of Klingons butchering their way across multiple starships trying to hunt down some Starfleet guy they wanted to delete. Obviously too awesome to ever get made, but would be a fun contrast against 90's network TV in terms of the effect of big curvy swords on squishy humans....

Aaron Wells

And yes, the makeup change...really hits you in the face here. That's the toxicity of retconning. Its a problem. And yeah, this episode is mostly a fumble of something that could have been great if it had any money behind it. As for lifespans, I think canonically Klingons do live longer than humans...but in the 24th century human life expectancy is up to something like 130 years.

Ian Meyers

Oof. Yeah. Kinda forgot how flat this one can fall. I was hyped for re-watching this episode, because I remember it being awesome...then it just kinda...goes... Also whenever I first watched this episode I had absolutely no idea they were Klingons from TOS either. I was honestly very surprised you guys pieced it together in the reaction.

Numinous2019

That's probably the material an actor likes to sink his teeth into, but I would have thought Koloth (Campbell) would have been the one who became dysfunctional with age. Kor in 'Errand Of Mercy' seemed too shrewd, too intellectual and cold blooded to end up like that. Ansara's Kang...absolutely not. So it's Koloth by default.

Ken R

They should have come up with an in universe explanation or just said they were a different race of klingon.

River Acheron

To be fair, everyone looks for different things. To go the other way: There's some awful movies I love, such as Hostel which I like for the utter shock value. And I'll give you the greatest example. Exorcist 2. The worst, ill-conceived dull plot by a director (the aptly named John BOORman), but stylistically, it is the of the most surreal and beautiful films ever made with a level of cinematography that reaches legendary, and it's one of my favorite horror movies because of that. Execution does matter. It matters a LOT for some people. And yeah, I concede that horror is very different from sci-fi, in that horror doesn't need a good story (i can argue it doesn't always need a story period), because by its nature it's aim is meant to invoke a primeval emotion of fear and/or dread. In fact, too much backstory can actually dull the horror sometimes, which is happening a lot with modern horror...it has to go into some tragic backstory that turns the horror into a dramatic thriller. Blegh! Now I get science fiction is more about the story and message rather than unlocking an emotional response. Still, I feel, as do others, that you can have a good premise (hell, I care about premise a lot although im not beholden to it), poor execution or even just execution that one doesn't agree with, can lower the grade of an episode or movie. As I said before, everyone looks for different things, and often a person looks for different things depending on the genre or even one's own mood that day.

TinMan_7B9

Or more subtle ridges similar to General Chang in ST6, combined with the old TOS hairstyles.

Nolan

I feel like in the 90s TV censors started cracking down on the violence and gore outside of specific networks and shows. There's definitely a point where the Bat'leth starts coming across as a blunt'leth in how it's used and kinda stays that way for awhile.

Marko

That is a good name. They do tend to have a bonding with episodes most find mid (to somewhat high). But first of all, that is totally fair and second of all, it's also a fun part of the reaction.

Marko

It's perspective, and they should develop it on their own. We cannot, and more importantly, should not shape it for them in advance, or we end up shortchanging them, and ourselves with it.

Scarpad’s Domain

Rewatching ot I see that the front half of the episode is better than the back half, and growing up watching those 70 episodes over and over and the n 20 years later revisiting with old friends adds to the lack of a better story in the second half. It's an episode I'd expected when you don't recognize "My Dear Captain Koloth" or for that matter Trelane

Nolan

I always found that final fight a bit anticlimactic. This episode is fine. I appreciate the callback to TOS, and the willingness to embrace the frachise history without suffocating in it, and the Dax stuff is good. It gets close to crossing the line of exceptional, but misses the mark. But hey, at least havi g watched TOS you're able to appreciate these characters and their history, even if it didn't land perfectly. I did honestly expect you guys to not realize until you opened the takes and saw they were old characters.

Greg Quinn

Energy won't work. Replicate machine guns. Lol

Mark Chrisco

Your response is most appreciated.

JoeMama47

I think you guys nailed it: the idea is much better than the execution.

HeatheЯ

This review is fair and B is a a good score for this one. It's not top tier for me. All the conversation scenes are at least an A (killer after killer lines with Dax, Kira, Odo, Sisko, etc.), sooooo good!) and then there are a number of scenes with the legacy klingons that are C level. Although it's nice to give a nod TOS characters, Josh and Alex put together who they were faster than I did when I first watched this.

HeatheЯ

That's a good take on the episode, I never considered that <3

Monarch Black

I like the episode for the eccentric performance of Kor, but otherwise I just find it OK. I wondered if I wasn't remembering it correct when you put out the cinematic trailer. Usually if it gets a trailer it is really good or really bad and I didn't remember it being either.

Banes

That’s what you get when you make a deal with the devil, Kang

Better Watch Trek

I hope you'll edit all the DS9 opening credits reactions into one loooong video once you've finished the series - so funny!

Sainjl

You know I didn’t think Sisko was angry. They want you to think he’s angry and is going to chew her out. But then his expression changed. That’s how I’ve assisted interpreted it anyway.

ShazD

I like the cheesy bloodless battles T_T These episodes are so cosy.

ShazD

Lol I'll never get over Genesis.

ShazD

Hahahahaha. I paid for Lower Decks (like I couldn't wait one day? Seriously? Although it is my all time fave TNG episode) - wasn't disappointed :D

Evan Guthrie

I don't mind that the Klingons were changed. Sure, it technically means that TOS is "inaccurate" with regards to visuals, but when have visual effects ever been photoreal? It's all just a visual medium that's meant to express ideas.

captveg

I like the idea that this played best for TOS fans that had rewatched those episodes over and over in reruns for 20 years. There's a certain vibe to being a fan in certain "eras" that can get passed by in later generations. I remember the Star Wars fan era before the prequels very fondly, for example. The specific vibes surrounding the OT catchphrases or the weak-but-it's-all-we-got 90s SW books, etc. That era died a long, long time ago, and younger fans just won't ever know its particular charm or its drawbacks.

Mark Wood

Blood on the weapons is not common in Trek up to this point, blood on weapons in active use never shown. Sins of the Father, Redemption II both feature no blood during knife combat. Where you are more likely though not guaranteed, is blood on a prominent corpse. Like Duras after Worf kills him. In fact blood on weapons is only shown to date after a cut, after the action is over and that is still not common. A pan out for example in Duet where you now see the knife with a small amount of blood on it, or Duras with the Batleth sticking in his chest. The only time blood is shown on a blade without a cut, is when Worf is swearing to Gowron, where the blade is blocked by his arm as he is grabbing the blade edge, and the blade is pulled away and blood is present. But never in a combat scene in action. And yes the fight scene isn't that engaging. But it is fairly true for the time for how TV was shot in fight scenes, and we also have to consider its a fight with actors in prosthetics (meaning there day is going to be 4 to four hours longer, thus less time on stage), actors that are senior citizens, and its the largest battle scene in TNG or DS9 to date, Those factors help make it more memorable for its time. As for the complaint by some that the characters are somewhat different from TOS (with Koloth being the largest), I actually love that. This is over a 100 years later than when we saw any of these characters (and we saw actually very little of them to form a legitimate baseline on who they should be at there core). . Now what I am more shocked by is you guys not recognizing Kor (or in your case Baltar) as you saw the actor far more in one season then what you saw in one episode. Now some fans like myself who has seen Battlestar multiple times over the decades, still have seen Kor more, as I have seen that episode easily a hundred plus times over the sixty years. I don't remember being spoiled by this episode in advance ( I was more focused on the promo for the end of TNG, Generations and the early rumblings about Voyager).. And I immediately recognized the actor both from his eyes and checks, not to say anything of his very distinctive voce.

Mark Wood

What shocks me about your review of the episode is how it compares to your views about the previous Dax episode. Unlike most here I actually rather liked Playing God, for me it's a b- episode. Supporting almost entirely by the Dax character work, and negatively impacted by the B - Subplot. So a Dax episode that is deeper dramatically, and tied to just one plot. Hell yeah I liked this one much more A-,

Shatner’s Cigarette

When the official TA cinematic trailer was better and more intense than this lukewarm cup of Klingon raktajino episode I've probably seen 10+ times in the last thirty years.......

River Acheron

I get that. As someone in their 20's who watched all 90s Trek a few years ago, and THEN TOS a year ago, this episode didn't do much for me. Relics did, as well as certain things we cannot talk about yet, and Unification (i knew who Scotty and Spock were lol), but this completely went over my head. TOS is not my favorite series. Visually it didn't age well (for ME!) and I also think it relied too much on them landing on a new planet each week, etc. It seemed VERY formulaic and also there was VERY little actual character development or conflict. And it seemed rather Christian by what I consider the worst line in Trek in Who Mourns for Adonais. "the one God we have is adequate" (im paraphrasing). I find it HIGHLY unlikely that Kirk is supposed to be Christian. Oh, then there was that "son of God" crap from Bread and Circuses. Maybe I am just too removed from the 60's? I mean, my DAD is too young for TOS. But yeah, I feel like that was network censors adding in the Christian stuff? I'm pretty sure Gene was atheist and intended our characters to be. It seems very odd to have random Christian or at least monotheistic religious inserts now and then, and sort of a turn-off. The Prophets in DS9 doesn't bother me because they ACTUALLY exist but thats a whole other convo. Anyway, yeah so I can watch 60's Twilight Zone and I love it. But it stands the test of time for me more than TOS. I dunno. And I love horror from 1922 all the way though the Universal Era and the Hammer era till now. So I DO love old stuff! I prefer it! But TOS...i tried but I dunno. Or maybe I screwed myself with TOS by binging 90s Trek first. It's possible! That said, I didn't hate this episode. I just didn't love it.

Aaron Wells

Without getting into anything... Have you guys seen all of the Star Trek series?

Ken R

General Chang works too.!

Brer

This episode continues the theme that the only interesting thing about Dax is Curzon, who is jad'zia exactly? So far a slave to Curzon's memories and little else Couldn't hurt to hear about a different previous host for once?

Sam Langanke

As far as I know it was real. Tarantino confirmed he wanted to do it and Paramount was very tempted but feared it would ruin the brand.

Sam Langanke

Three Musketeers is one of my most beloved stories of all time. Read the book more than once. Saw all film and TV versions. And Ididn't see that in the episode at all! Thank you!

Sam Langanke

Thanks! I always wondered about that. Wrestling is thankfully not a thing in Europe, at least not in my part. So I didn't get it.

MJBull

The way to recognize John Colicos is the voice, always. The three most memorable TOS Klingon commanders as The Three Musketeers, with Jadzia as D'Artagnan. You should see "The Man in the Iron Mask" movie for where they slot. So the now we have it in canon that the Klingons have always looked this way. As an objective opinion, , this story is a bit weak if it was just three random klingon characters, rather than from TOS..

Naglfarius

Yeah like so often i was wrong, because i thought you would really like this Episode. ^^ For me a solid A. The first 30 Minutes are S Tier for me, but the Fight is a B at best, so the buildup is greater than the actual climax.

MJBull

And since "The Trouble With Tribbles" was a comedic episode, Koloth was a sarcastic smartass in it would seem to track more with the character trope Kor fills here.

MJBull

Admiral McCoy did not look like he would be able to handle melee combat at his age.

MJBull

I do recall, ironically, that Colicos was the first of the three to pass.

KingPin124

B or B+ for me. Josh & Alex, you seemed to get hung up on the TOS reference part of for a while. When I watched this, I hadn’t seen TOS yet. I didn’t know those were TOS characters until many years later. Would the episode be a bit better to you if you forget the TOS ties and they were just 3 random old Klingons with clout?

Philbot

I knew of them but hadn’t seen any of them just the Trouble with Tribbles.

Aramis Calcutt

JOSH EATING SPILLED SNACKS OFF THE FLOOR!!! Caught you red-handed!!

Aramis Calcutt

Most of Alex and Josh’s comments are fair. BUT. The one thing I disagree with 100 percent is Josh’s rigid adherence to continuity. To me, makeup and special effects should never be respected as part of continuity. Forget that shit. TOS wasn’t a documentary that faithfully depicted Kor, Kang, and Koloth as the “really” existed. They’re not real. It doesn’t matter whether they are faithful to appearances. I feel the same way with objections to recasting characters with new actors. These aren’t real people. This is a performance. This is all artifice. Recasting and new makeup and effects are 100 percent fair game. I’m totally comfortable with pretending that this is what they always look like because it’s all pretending anyway.

Cranky Grandma

I loved this episode because I loved seeing these three again TOS Klingons (especially Kor, the first Klingon we saw). It’s been 100 years since we last saw them. Lots of fan theories as to why they looks different- mutation over time, for example. I’m a stickler for canon, but some changes to appearance that can be explained are okay with me. Objectively speaking I agree with a B, but on a personal level it’s an A just because I love these Klingons. I am glad the show is finally finding a way to develop Dax as a character. She just keeps getting better.

Aaron Wells

Oh wow okay. I mean... It would be terrible if Paramount did anything to ruin the brand. I just can't imagine something like that happening.

Chris Mickelson

On my first watch with The Boys, I found myself having the same feeling about this episode as Alex. All the ingredients for a great episode, but a bit too watered down for whatever reason. Not bad though, all things considered, just seems...thin?

Loot Narsbaar

Genesis is Imaginary Friend compared to this episode

Loot Narsbaar

What I like so much about this episode is that it doesn't spell everything out in the final scene and instead ends on reaction shots from other characters. Trek rarely does this. I will say that this episode would have been better if Dax had killed the Albino, and even though she likely killed a bunch of guards, I don't think the suits would have allowed it. Worf gets away with stuff like that because he is a Klingon, this is their legal system, and still has rough edges. (Or had them until season 7). Dax is too human as "one of the good guys" to be allowed such a dark turn.

Loot Narsbaar

I think Josh and Alex sometimes forget Trek is a family show intended to be PG for ages 9 and up or whatever. You can't have a bloodbath on syndicated TV at 5 PM on a Sunday afternoon. You just have to roll with it and concede that one.

Target Audience

Then maybe don’t center your episode around a big Klingon battle to the death that you know is going to be lame due to those constraints. TNG seemed to understand that just fine.

Loot Narsbaar

Although I still argue let it slide because that's what syndicated 90s tv was.

Mara

"I'm Jadzia now!" "Jadzia, my old friend" ACCEPTANCE <3

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

God I love season two When TNG looks back to TOS we get 'The Naked Now' When DS9 does it we get 'Blood Oath' I don't know what this episode deserves on a first watch, but I tell you it's one I always look forward to even on a selective abridged tenth watch through

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Yes!! Sci-Fi is best when it raises questions and asks YOU to think about it, rather than simply preach the opinions of the writers. As you note, by ending with nothing said, those unaddressed questions left hanging leaves those unspoken conversations purely for the watcher to consider on their own. It's perfect.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Oh come on! That misty entrance of those four silhouetted Klingons/Jadzia in the Albino's threshold -- "Look upon your executioners, killer of children!" That was epic

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

For me, it's not that I loved the Klingon performances in TOS and therefore love to see the characters reprised. QUITE THE OPPOSITE. Seeing these three Klingons in DS9, each with their own unique take on Klingon personality - the jovial one, the dedicated perfectionist, and the ruthless calculating strategist - allows me to go back and take this expanded view on them and their motivations and better enjoy TOS. "Kang thinks too much and Koloth doesn't feel enough" is such a great line coming from Kor. There is waaay more in this episode that I think got lost on a first watch because what the episode delivers on isn't what you expect - so you're waiting in vain for the episode to meet a bar you set that is in a direction it has no intent to go in. TOS nostalgia isn't what makes episode better, this episode makes 'Day of the Dove' and 'Trouble with Tribbles' better because now the adversaries are better fleshed out and less generic - and you can now imagine how those face offs with Kirk might have played out if it was a different Klingon archetype of the three swapped around.

River Acheron

A lot of fantasy novels especially those that are written by different authors such as Dragonlance, treat discontinuity as "legends" In fact, in the Zelda videogame franchise, a timeline is actually impossible by design. Some fans finally noticed that from the first game, all the way to Tears of the Kingdom, it's actually the same story being told over and over again. Being that "legend" is literally part of the title, some fans speculate that the games we play may have never happened. Link, Zelda, Impa, Gannon etc may in fact be Hyrule's mythological figures and we are playing the cycle of myth and legend that may or may not have really happened. Hyrule may be some futuristic cyberpunk world at this point, for all we know. We head-canon the discontinuity. Star Trek can be seen in a similar way in the sense that being that it's all fictional anyway, you can head-canon ANY discontinuity. The TNG episode Parallels made it so we can just say "TOS was a reality slightly different from TNG." for example.

Aramis Calcutt

But we don’t need to “head-canon” anything, or posit “alternative realities.” Or catwgorize some of them as real and some of them as “legends.” Because none of it is in any reality. None of it is real. It’s all fiction and we should just treat it as fiction, not worrying about “inconsistencies” between stories told 60 years apart in real time.

River Acheron

Oh I know. It's all fiction anyway so none of it matters, but fans suspend disbelief and for immersion we must head-canon sometimes. I am a philosophy major and I actually have a book on this subject. The concept is called The Magic Circle. Whenever we cry or get scared with a movie for example, we know intellectually that what we see is not real, yet parts of our brains suspend that. We join the "rules" of said make-believe world. Children do this when they play Make Believe and psychologically, we do the exact same thing when we watch TV, a movie, play a videogame or read a book. When we step into the circle, we cross a psychological threshold that has real physiological affects. We accept the rules of that world. So when there is something that break continuity, disbelief becomes unsuspended. That is why it matters. We can tell ourselves it doesn't matter because it's "all fiction anyway", but the Magic Circle is a real psychological and philosophical concept that matters. Otherwise billions of people wouldn't be immersed in fiction or care about suspension of disbelief. The fact that so many people care about continuity and justification of errors, proves this concept is valid.

Loot Narsbaar

This one is so well acted and paced I watched it twice in two days. I've never done that.

Loot Narsbaar

If it wasn't a blunt weapon all those fabled Klingon warriors would be accidentally stabbing themselves in the chest. Falling on one's sword is a dishonorable death.

Loot Narsbaar

No they should not. It's a makeup change made because they had a bigger budget for the movies and no longer had to use cardboard sets and brownface. Writing an episode to explain it would most likely result in something profoundly stupid. Do we need a story arc explaining why Romulans now have ridges on their heads as well? What about a three part mini-series explaining why red shirts are now gold shirts?

Miranda

Isn't this basically the plot of his film "Django Unchained"?

Miranda

To be fair, I'm not sure Bones could have handled melee combat in TOS

Miranda

No one cared about spoilers in the 90s. This is a weird current obsession. We all scoured for interviews and articles in physical magazines to find hints of what was going to be in the episodes. Giving drops of info was the marketing strategy at the time, used to increase interest in films/tv. I definitely don't want to spoil Josh and Alex, as I think DS9 has a very fun story to watch going in blind. But I can also say that I loved watching DS9 in first run, even with all that marketing info available.

Ragnarok

You know how you guys always get annoyed with characters over-explaining things you’ve already figured out? That’s exactly what having started explaining the Patron takes for 30 to 45 seconds *every. Single. Video.* is now. It’s not a complicated concept. It’s all right there in the name. Even if it weren’t it would take until the reading of the first comment for even the slowest people to figure out what it is. Please stop. It’s annoying to listen to every time, going “Yes, *we know*.” It’s fairly recent, and it’s not a good addition.

StealthMomo

There is no way to explain why Kor, Kang, and Koloth changed in appearance without SPOILERS. Be patient and maybe someday the discrepancy between TOS Klingons and TNG era Klingons will be explained. Or maybe not. What do I know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

J...

"I should like it. I think I like it, but I don't know if I do." Yeah. That's just about perfect.

Loot Narsbaar

For some people it is their first video. For others the chance to be part of Patreon Takes is a selling point which brings in revenue. In addition others need to be reminded how to conduct themselves in the takes. Just click the right arrow twice if it's so unbearable.

E Parhas

I think they're doing it for the eventual YouTube edit as advertisement of the Patreon but yeah it's getting old

Comrade Wireless Caller

The three great actors reprising their roles from TOS I thought just totally nailed it in this episode. But even more than that this episode was just loads of fun! Love the little reference to The Trouble With Tribbles in this one. And it had a three musketeer type of feeling in it. Or if you include Dax a four musketeer type of feeling!

Mr Indiscret

I think the Next Gen Klingon episodes have more bearing due to your emotional ties and link with their outcome relating to Worf, while even with 3 original Trek Klingon guest stars that impact at whatever the result has gotta feel less of an investment as a viewer

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version Kor uses his sword. The sex score board Quark 4 Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 GUEST: Koloth 1 Kang 1 Kor +1 (maybe 2) DETAILS: Koloth and Kang both have scores from TOS but Baltar….I mean Kor scores here. But did he choose one or Klingdong a double.