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UNCUT - The Wire (DS9 S2E22) | Star Trek Journey 321 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-10-29 14:00:13
Edited:
2025-10-30 13:16:58
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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Fedora The Explorar

"Who hasnt been in the spotlight recently? Bashir?" Haha very well predicted

Darren

3 times the Garak in S2 and in 4 total appearances he’s had more development than Geordi did in about 4 seasons!

PIG

For one split second I thought they were reacting to The Wire series. My eyebrows went up. Foolish pig.

Jonathon Tsagris

It’s never made sense that Jake is considered part of the main cast.

Jonathon Tsagris

The Obsidian order seems to be modelled after the real world Stasi from East Germany - IIRC that quote about no cardassian family being able to sit down to dinner without the Obsidian Order taking notes about what they ate is actually an adaptation of a quote about the Stasi

Gryff

So what I'm learning from this episode and the last two parter is to never trust any story that a Cardassian tells you completely.

Shatner’s Cigarette

This is very informative! I’ve often thought of the Obsidian Order as the Cold War era equivalent of the Soviet Union’s KGB intelligence agency; Starfleet Intelligence is CIA or British Secret Service; the Romulan Tal-Shiar as another similar clandestine Cold War area foreign intelligence organization.

Keith S

Since I have seen a lot of these episodes more than once. I tend to see more of the little things rewatchig it with you guys. Like the long shot of Garak 's quarters i was impressed and wondered was that a totally constructed set? Or was some of it optical effects?

Randy Watson

Your anticipation for DS9 shifting into something amazing will def pay off. Love to see you guys recognizing all the seeds being planted and can't wait to watch you pop off with the series.

Steven Johnson

Garak. That's all I have to say. 57:35 One thing I like about this episode, and it's more of a subtle thing is... Chain of Command. They put an implant in Picard to torture him. So Bashir assumes torture device, and our experience with Cardassians up to now would make all of us go "of course it's a torture device." It's a small thing, but they were aware of what audiences had come to know over the last few years of Star Trek, and they leveraged it.

Murthag

Clear S for me, I loved everything about this episode. Can't think of a single thing that I could criticize. But A is a fair rating, if it didn't have "that thing" for you guys.

Seth Walker

DS9 has the best ensemble of recurring characters. A few, including Garak, you have met. But there are at least 6 more that you haven't met yet that go on to have dozens of appearances that just add wonderfully to the tapestry that is DS9. Andrew Robinson is such a fucking treasure as a performer and he never fails to deliver a captivating performance. Siddig continues to grow as Bashir and continues his journey to becoming a fantastic main character.

Ross Townsend

Garak and Bashir play off each other and absolutely spark in the ways the writers seemed to hope Bashir and Dax would early on. They are always a blast to watch together on screen .

awktopus

On the subject of the TNG creatives moving to DS9 when TNG ends - that's actually one of the most consequential moments in Star Trek history, in my opinion. The way the they split themselves up between DS9 and Voyager ends up having big consequences for the creative directions of both shows, mostly helping DS9, and hurting Voyager.

Shanelle

Cool theory about Tain’s words at the end! He states he wants Garak to suffer but that could be an excuse for keeping him as a well-positioned sleeper agent. I never thought of that. I took his words at face value but there’s always a new way to interpret Cardassian motives!

Comrade of Chaos

We learned Garak's full name in this episode, but also I never hear people talk about how we also learn JULIAN's full name! Julian Subatoi Bashir

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Wow, somehow I’ve never seen this episode, an S for me. Bashir and Garak work so well together, the actors give their best when playing off each other.

Carl Davies

Probably a little off topic but with the shot of Morn at the start of the episode. Has anyone ever pointed out to the guys the nod to Norm from cheers? Dont think I've seen them refer to it on screen but I dont always read all the comments and patron takes

Shanelle

Like everything else, it’s been pointed out dozens, if not hundreds, of times 😅👍

Vina

Absolute S from me! I think the wire in him by the end wasn't so much that it made him feel blissed out but he needed it by that point just to get to normal

Darren

Biggest plot hole of the episode? Garak turning down a physical from Bashir…

Vina

Well, he wasn't in his right mind after all

Ryan

"It feels like we're knocking on the door. What's behind the door?" "I feel like this show is going to go through a shift where it ramps up..." MAN do I want to say some things. But I'll refrain. You'll get there, and pretty soon! Also of note: BOHICA is a military acronym from WW2. If that's where they got that Cardassian's name, then it's kind of hilariously appropriate. And finally, re: the Cardassians being intriguing, here's Chip Chalmers talking about why they originally introduced them in "The Wounded" (quote from Memory Alpha): "We introduced a new enemy that's finally able to speak on the level of Picard. They're not grunting, they're not giggling, they're not mutes or all-knowing entities. Here are the Cardassians who also graduated first in their class and they're able to carry on highly intelligent conversations with Picard, but they're sinister as hell."

Doctor Pulaski

Is this the first Tal Shiar mention since Troi was turned into a Romulan? Anyone know?

Doctor Pulaski

Did he? We still know very little about Garak, besides the fact that he is definitely some kind of terrifying exiled spy. Geordi, we know lots about (creepy stalker, unlucky in love, nerdy genius, great engineer, good officer, loyal friend to robots.) Do we like what we learn about Geordi? YMMV

NoMoreWiire

Some folks will recommend that anyone wanting to give DS9 a try should skip the first two seasons but I very much disagree - Season 1 and 2 are very much setting the stage or laying the essential foundations for what's to come. I think you guys are starting to feel that now. Strap in guys, it's a wild ride. Oh and the Cardassians are by far the most fleshed out race in Trek. Often Trek is guilty of making their aliens one-note archetypes - The Klingons are warriors, the Romulans are sneaky etc but the Cardassians have so many different shades and Garak is one of the most intriguing characters in all of sci-fi and Robinson deserves so much praise for what he did with the role.

Alejandro Calzetta

FINALLY. I love this episode and I'm glad you liked it. When it aired a lot of people were disappointed that we didn't find out the truth about Garak but its better this way. The mystery and the development of the character is worth it.

Jon1701

A is probably fair. Probably a low A /high B for me. Good performance by Andy Robinson but the plot resets a bit too easily for me. I like Garak but he’s no Dukat.

James

I interpret the different stories that Garek spouted as all having some true details, just not fully true. They say the best lies are the ones that are based on true facts.

Philbot

Wow rewatching this episode they are so Queer coded! The scene with Bashir and Dax in her Quarters it’s like they’re talking about his BF. 🤷‍♂️

Philbot

There’s a minimalism to Trek they beam down to one city on one continent on one planet and it’s like “we’ve seen all there is to know about these people.”

Philbot

I think so.

Philbot

It’s so Queer coded! it’s like a love story. His conversation with Dax is like about him and his new BF.

Philbot

DS9 feels like the only true ensemble! Other shows fell more into the Kirk, Spock, McCoy Triumvirate. Data, Picard, Worf?

tyranusfan

Whenever you see Alex, say a word that ends in Y. :)

Danny Loop

I was getting similar vibes, especially having heard Andrew Robinson speak on his motivation in his first scene with Bashir.

Ryan Roach

Andrew Robinson said he played the character as gay and wanting to get with Bashir, but I don’t think the writers were in on that.

Danny Loop

Today I learned, twice

Danny Loop

Sometimes you wanna go where everybody knows your name

Sam Langanke

If we believe Tain we learned a lot new informations about Garak: His first name is Elim. He was in the Obsedian Order. The Obsedian Order is a powerful and cruel spy organization. He was the protege of Enabran (not Esteban, Alex! lol) Tain who was the head of the Obsedian Order. He did something that pissed Tain off that he exiled him. This 'something' must have been very personal because Tain didn't simply kill him. What we alread know: Garak loves Cardassia and its culture and would do anything for his people but also suffers from descisions Cardassians leaders make. He does not believe Central Command is very competent and especially hates Gul Dukat. Which is a mutual feeling by Dukat.

Carsten Tassilo Gräbe

1:01 I'd say you've only recently started the show. Season 1 (plus the beginning of season 2) was an introduction, even for those unfamiliar with Star Trek. Now the stage is set. The crew has settled in. The Bajorans are out of their transitional phase. The new world and spiritual leadership are firmly in power. With the Maquis, you know the situation regarding the next major power (Cardassian). What lies beyond the wormhole is still somewhat unclear. But exploring the unknown is part of Star Trek. And unlike the Enterprise, DS9 can't simply go where no one has gone before. And their runabouts even adhere to the Warp 5 limit. ;-)

Some Guy

"We'll go to my quarters" *firmly shoves cork into bottle*

Jonathan Llyr

Any time Garak shows up I lean in and pay more attention. Andrew Robinson is a freakin’ genius. And time to let go of the “dull and boring” opening credits schtik. It’s getting old man!!! 🤣😂🤪

Mark Plemmons

Cirroc must have had a great agent.

TC Green

I think what helps keep Garak so intriguing is that they never fully explain anything about him. You get pieces, maybe even a fake piece, of the puzzle from time to time but never the whole thing.

Avaria

Love this episode! While just how much was ultimately revealed about Garak may be up for debate, we're told very nearly everything we need to know about Bashier.

Mark Chrisco

Do you guys still consider the series set-up of DS9 to be limiting? Just asking.

Martin Wilson

Btw Saurian brandy has been around since TOS.

Sam Langanke

It's not minimalism. It's budget restrictions.

Deep Red

I always speculated that Garak may have let on a bit more of the truth than he intended in his breakdown scene. Him being withdrawn from his drugs, spiraling, and thinking he might die. I wouldn't be surprised if some of what he said there was actually true. But I love him trying to push Bashir away even though he desperately wants someone to confide in. He may have been lying, but that, "I need to know someone forgives me", is so real

Forbidden Donut

That last note is especially interesting, that they were essentially designed to be 'dark Picards', and I can totally see it. Love that, actually.

Forbidden Donut

Also, I don't know if it's explicitly what the show intended or not, but I think it could be: Apparently the red lights they have on in Garak's quarters may be heaters, to help make a Cardassian feel more comfortable since they prefer things pretty toasty.

jon bolton

A great episode featuring two of my favourite Star Trek actors. For me this is a high A.

Numinous2019

The only things we know are that Garek always talks about duty to the Cardassian state. In the cold open to Profit and Loss. In the cold open of this episode. So....not saying this is necessarily right....Garek made a choice that Tain considers a betrayal of himself and/or the Obsidian Order. Garek chose the greater interests of Cardassia. Whether that choice is what we humans would consider a moral choice....who knows.

reactive1

Everyone seems to be down on Voyager and we haven’t even got to watching it yet with Josh & Alex.

Numinous2019

I really like the casting of Voyager. The problem though is the reason Ron Moore gave for leaving that show. Some great episodes. Can be fun even when not that strongly written. However....[ can't say anymore ]

awktopus

I love Voyager, its my comfort Trek, the series I most often play when I just want to enjoy some Trek in the background - but that's kind of the problem. It's comfortable and inoffensive, it doesn't take risks or even try to live up to its potential (and it really has the most potential of any Trek show, imo). I truly don't know if Josh and Alex will love it (because the crew is great and the characters really are the biggest strength of the show), or hate it (because of the never-ending boring technobabble sci-fi plots)

Zenlike Creature

Garak is arguably my favourite character in all of Star Trek. He's very complex and the more you learn about him, the more questions it seems to raise. DS9 does a great job of developing recurring characters as well as the main cast. I'm emotionally invested in them more than any other Trek cast and the main reason it's my favourite Trek series. Lovely that Andrew Robinson sent you a video message. I'm very envious and would love to meet him.

Vagon Khan

Minor Spoiler... It WILL all make sense at the end, and the one thing DS9 was great about is continuity.

BN13

I think the word you were thinking of was "geneology." Adam West played the Cardassian that Quark tried to order the device from, so another tie to Batman. You could say that the whole point of Garak telling those stories was just to manipulate Bashir into finding Enabran Tain, who Garak knew was the only one who could save him. The first two stories were to set the stage to Bashir about who Tain was, and the third story was to name drop where he was retired so he could be found. Cardassians always play 4d chess. Speaking of which, since you're starting to find the Cardassians intriguing, I think DS9 benefits a LOT from a second watch after you've finished the entire series. A large part of that is because the Cardassian moments in the first two seasons, and the show as a whole, mean a lot more once you've seen the Cardassians fully fleshed out. A lot of nuance, regarding their politics for instance, that gets lost on a first watch-through becomes obvious on a second watch. But for me, what I find most interesting about them is their psychology. I can watch this show 100 times and still learn new things about them.

BN13

Which is also a point you can get to with any drug, as Tasha Yar told us all the way back in season 1.

BN13

I had another theory about what his words really meant, but I can't talk about that until much later.

BN13

I wouldn't exactly call them liars, but as Enabran Tain put it, they have "a gift for obfuscation." When it comes to words, truth means nothing to them. They care far more about USING their words, usually for some sort of gain, or if anything, to keep things hidden. There's no point in them revealing anything more than they have to. Nothing ever goes uncalculated.

BN13

If you guys know anything about 1984 at all, Cardassia reminds me a lot of that setting. It's an authoritarian state where "Big Brother" (Obsidian Order) is always watching. And to survive there, one has to be capable of "double think."

Toni Pienonen

So true. Things build upon each other

Dark Kronis

best thing about this episode, is up till this point Garak, seem invincible, smart and always two step ahead, showing he was suffering in silence,on the verge of a break down, make him seem more realistic

BN13

I actually interpreted the third story as the most false because that one, Garak had a clear reason for telling. The point of that story was to let Bashir know where Enabran Tain was. So when Bashir asks Garak why he was telling him that story, of course he's not going to tell him the truth. Instead, he manipulates him further by saying "I need to know that someone forgives me." I figured that was just Garak giving Bashir an answer that he knew his human starfleet ideals expected to hear, and it would further encourage him to seek Tain out in order to save him. But this is just my own view of course. I think the second story is actually the most true since that one was told when he was in the most pain and probably had the least control.

Josef Nitervol

I knew I recognized that voice of Adam West!!!

Narnman

funny i was just thinking that President Putin was an agent based in Germany

Narnman

Quite off topic this and the previous episode aired in early May 1994 the time when my favorite race car driver Ayrton Senna was sadly killed during a race. Easy to place myself and what I was doing when these episodes aired. Over 30 years where has the time gone. rip

Numinous2019

Oh...my...God! I never realised that was Adam West. But once I read your comment....of course it's him. The voice, the dialogue delivery, the body language, the engaging personality. I absolutely suck at recognising actors wearing make up.

bullettbot

I don't know this series like I do TNG so I might be way off and reading too much into this, I don't know where his story goes. I feel that when Garak said everything is true, even the lies was interesting. When Garak said he destroyed that ship of 100 or so and Elim died that actually happened and he was saying the better part of him self...his soul if you will was lost. Then he talks about how he let some teenagers go who should been taken in Elim is shocked, the good part of him is shocked back into life and this confuses Garak. Then we says that Elim betrayed him before he could do anything...so before he take any action to protect himself he realised that he wouldn't be able to live with himself being this way anymore and allowed himself to be a an outcast and that's why he hates where he is but at the same time believes that is where he should be, he deserves to suffer for not caring and also caring too late . Probably very wrong...but I love it made me think that way.

Numinous2019

Really interesting comment. You may very well be completely correct.

Shanelle

I love that it made you think that way too. This is like a high school essay assignment 😆

Shanelle

There’s definitely some psychoanalysis involved with Garak splitting himself into two people. Internal conflicts.

bullettbot

I honestly don't know but that's what I took away from this, shame I didn't comment it before our 2 best guys watched it, but like I said I don't know this series that well wanted to watch in time with them.

Sunny

I wondered for the first time if the wire was why dukat was laughing his way through the attempts to get info out of him.

bullettbot

Im new to all this but i added it the chat to see others think

BN13

Good idea! I can totally see that. But I think this technology is Obsidian Order only since it had a classified Obsidian Order access code. It seems like they'd have a level of technology above the Central Command. I think Dukat was able to resist the mind meld just due to the intensive mental training Cardassians put all of their children through. As a result, he knows how to block any type of mental intrusion. At least to an extent.

Nolan

Oh, lol. I was looking at him and kept thinking, "That looks like Adam West's mouth and chin and jaw... but naaaahh, couldn't be."

BN13

I love this! I think you're right. I can totally see this. Deep down I think Garak is a good person, but he's also devoted to Cardassia. So "Garak" and "Elim" are often at odds with each other. "Elim" is Garak's conscience. But as a loyal Cardassian, Garak believes that he deserves exhile for allowing "Elim" to betray him. For allowing his conscience to win over his Cardassian duty to the state. For not being "strong enough" to keep "Elim" under control. But he also knows "Elim" is right. I think this also explains his relationship to Bashir. On the one hand, "Garak" can't stand Bashir's idealism and complete lack of understanding of Cardassian ways and values. But "Elim" admires Bashir for those same traits, and for being a man of conscience. Garak could also see interacting with Bashir as another way of interacting with his own conscience. That puts another layer to the line "I hate this place! And I hate you!"

JRandolph

Andrew Robinson's Garak is a candidate for the best-played character in all of Trek.

bullettbot

I'm so glad you all understand where I'm coming from with my thinking process, like i said i dont know where this goes but I actually feel like we got the answer to what he did and who now is for right now.

Dark Kronis

at the start "the never ending sacrifice" is clearly forshadowing about Tain and Garak relationship, as mentor and successor,and the expected path Garak life that was derailed by what ever he truly did to get exiled

Greg Quinn

I wanted to comment "all true" "even the lies" "especially the lies" so many times.

Greg Quinn

Personally I think the last quote was about the best ending imaginable.

International Man of Leisure

And Section 31 is like...well, one of the clandestine alphabet agencies the public still knows nothing about.

Aaron Wells

Garek. Never fails to entertain.

Aaron Wells

I am so very jealous of people who get to run through all this with fresh eyes

Just another Red Shirt

I was a military medic and now a cop. I love the scene with Odo and Julian. I respect them both. They both did their duty and they were both right.

bullettbot

A comment that says nothing about what we have discussed but maybe has at the same time... very Garak of you

Malamute

I love Garak! :-)

Scarpad’s Domain

You'll get all sorts of truth's about Garak and thats what makes the character so great. This episode an def an A

Todd

Esteban Tane fucking hilarious! If you want to see more Andrew Robinson I recommend Dirty Harry or Hellraiser, he really is the cherry on top at the end of Hellraiser.

Scarpad’s Domain

Just a "My Dinner with Garak" episode would be fascinating

HeatheЯ

"I am my scars!"

Sainjl

I agree. The Cardassians are so big into torture, they have to have a way to protect high ranking officials and classified info.

Sainjl

“Especially the lies” On the last Garack ep, Josh didn’t buy Garack’s “I love Cardassia line.” It was actually a perfect display of who Garack is. It wasn’t exactly his motivation for helping Quark but it was still the truth.

Paul

It's so challenging to act with extreme enthusiasm or distress and make it feel believable. Somehow, Andrew Robinson pulls it off. Such a talent!

HeatheЯ

Henceforth, from this day forward, he shall be known as Esteban Tain.

HeatheЯ

I love your take on it, I've always seen it that way as well <3

BN13

Yeah I think I made a mistake. I read that it was Adam West in a YouTube comment a long time ago and never double checked it because the performance seemed so obvious after that. But when I went to look it up just now, yeah, it's credited as Jimmie F. Skaggs. Sorry about that.

BN13

This still could be right. I just realized that I'm taking Dukat's word for it here when he says that it was due to "mental discipline." And one should never take Dukat's word at face value, especially when he's attributing something as being due solely to his own awesomeness. He always over-inflates himself. Maybe the Obsidian Order gives those devices to all high ranking officials, even those in the Central Command? And Dukat both didn't want to reveal that information for obvious reasons, but also relished the idea of attributing his resistance to his own ego instead? Dukat always talks like he is in full control of everything until something exposes that this is not the full truth. Maybe he wasn't actually in control there either?

Numinous2019

I don't know if you have seen season 3 of DS9, but there is clarification about the various branches of Cardassian government, military and intelligence services and how they view each other.

Numinous2019

The 1st story is definitely false. Garek's body language (immediately before starting that first version of events) shows he is sizing up Bashir and weighing what he needs to say at that moment. Garek wants to drive away Bashir by appearing to be a cold blooded monster. Garek's strategy is to withdraw and self-medicate. He absolutely does not want to let Bashir 'in'.

JoeMama47

Saurian Brandy is the IPA of DS9.

Deep Red

You absolutely could be correct about that. The fact definitely line up. I think I'm just too gullible lol, and I want to believe that Garak sincerely meant that

Aaron Wells

He very much acts with his eyes. Important, when covered in latex.

Doug

I don't remember the order of episodes so every week its like a surprise to see what episodes come up, and man they are really bringing out all the bangers this season

bullettbot

Elim (himself) destroyed me before I knew what was going on, I was sentenced to exile...(sad laughing) and the irony is I dissevered it, and not for the reasons they claimed but because of what I tried to Elim (himself) my best friend...

Tim Nikiforovs

Work kicked my ass this week so I'm pretty late commenting, but here goes. There are so many ways to interpret everything we see in this episode. It's pretty clear from the presence of a classified anti torture device that Garak is no simple tailor. At least, he wasn't always. But we still don't have a clear idea of why he was exiled. It's likely that none of his stories were particularly close to the truth as we would define it. As a couple comments said, it's possible his second story about letting the kids go was true or close to given he was suffering the worst withdrawal at that point, but he was still casting Elim as a separate person. He's obviously communicating SOMETHING about himself to Bashir, but his Obsidian Order training and Cardassian nature won't let him just recount the events as they happened, but he is still telling him something he needs him to know, hence "especially the lies". If Garak is telling you the full truth, it's either because he wants you to act on it without confusion, or it's just not that important. The things Garak wants, needs to talk about the most are also the things he can never reveal openly. The lies he crafts are a way to get it off his chest while keeping the secret. Garak setting himself and "Elim" up as friends and "the sons of Tain" could possibly be seen as referring to the 2 sides of Garak. Perhaps part of Garak is the friendly tailor he presents as, but to survive on Cardassia and in the order, he needed to be someone cold and ruthless. Garak is who he wants to be, Elim is who he had to be. The first story about shooting down the ship is probably a complete fabrication. Misery loves company, and Garak wants Bashir to hate him as much as he hates himself, so he tells him a story he would find horrifying. Saying he killed Elim is probably communicating that at some point his conscience got in the way of his duty and ended his career, "killing" Elim the spy. Lashing out and saying he hates Bashir was to push him away, but also probably because Bashir reminds him of a more idealistic part of himself that got him into his current situation. Were there Bajoran kids that Garak let go because there was no point to it? I suppose it's possible. Obviously there was no separate "Elim" there, and it may not have been the situation he described exactly, but there could have been an event where he showed, not necessarily compassion, but indifference to Bajoran prisoners and let them go because the Cardassians were withdrawing anyway. If he was exiled for that, it likely has less to do with whether or not they were terrorists or had important information, and more to do with Garak not living up to his training and being sufficiently ruthless. Tain may have seen that "weakness" as a betrayal of everything he taught Garak, hence saying that Elim looked at him like he was insane. His training was screaming at him to do his job but he just said "fuck it". The story about trying to frame Elim only for him to do it first probably refers to an internal struggle to either cover up what he did, or own up to it and accept the consequences. But of course, that's my interpretation, which could be way off. At any rate, excellent episode. Certainly among the best of the season.

Cranky Grandma

What a treat to hear from Andy Robinson! I think you should rewatch the Terry Farrell one now that you know more of Dax. Your bridge crew is amazing!

Numinous2019

Thank you. Very insightful set of observations. While we are not given any adequate references by Garek to untangle his backstory, you've dug as deep as possible. It's a sort of rorschach episode, so there is no ultimate answer.

Numinous2019

There's an easy reference episode guide on Wikipedia, unless you prefer to be surprised by the order.

Numinous2019

Robinson is claustrophic (in real life), so wearing that much make up was not a pleasant experience for him.

Numinous2019

Well, then that actor did a great impression of Adam West playing a Cardassian. So you are still 'technically' correct!

BN13

Well, I do think that all of the stories, no matter how true they actually are, or what his reasons were for telling them, ultimately ARE Garak's way of telling the truth. Hence the "especially the lies" line. There's a huge difference in the way that Garak "lies" and the way that Dukat lies for instance. Garak actually respects (or perhaps tests) your intelligence by doing this. He likes to drop hints for you to piece together yourself. Simply telling you the answer to him is almost like cheating. He wants to encourage you to think for yourself. Garak even said something like this in "Cardassians." "Come on Doctor. Do really need me to hold your hand for you? All of the pieces are right there laid out in front of you." Dukat, however, is completely self-serving. When he lies, it's usually to project his own self-image, convincing you that he's much more, awesome, benevolent, powerful, and in control than he actually is. The kicker is, Dukat's lies are so convincing because he's convincing himself just as much as he's convincing you. He actually believes his own lies, while Garak knows both his and Dukat's are fabrication. This is part of what makes the rivalry/interaction between these two so interesting. As we saw in "Cardassians" Garak loves cutting through Dukat's lies and exposing Dukat for who he actually is. And to Dukat, that's the greatest threat of all.

Tim Nikiforovs

"It's a sort of rorschach episode" Perfect description

Loot Narsbaar

My guess is the idea for the show probably changed after casting. Also a minor can only be on set for so long.

Jonathon Tsagris

I mean Will Wheaton was a minor as well for most of his time on TNG. Jake seems really underutilised compared to Wesley (although Wesley was obviously really poorly served by the writing).

Adin

Esteban Tain the relative of Gul Ducet.

Miranda

Really glad you two liked this one! I think some people are disappointed on first view because they feel they don't learn anything. I'm glad you two realize we did actually learn something, even the lies are telling us something. I think this episode actually gets better on rewatch, and it has slowly crept up my list of my favorite S2 episodes. I love Andrew Robinson in this episode. Garak is such a fascinating character in it. I also love that the writers finally gave Bashir a very strong DOCTOR episode, where we can see him holding his ground no matter what Garak or Odo is saying. I love that he actually goes to confront Enabran Tain at the end. Also, I will maybe forever now call Tain "Esteban" thanks to you.

Summer

Jake is criminally under used good thing for Cirroc he had a contract

Doug

Oh I know I can look them up I just like the surprise of not knowing what will be next

E Parhas

He said the line, he said the line! "My dear doctor, they're all true......especially the lies"

jack

My god...the foreshadowing in this episode is INSANE!

D Gyre

I love the discussion at the end here. I'm so glad you guys are enjoying this show the way I hoped you would.

Back Flip Bet

Romulus is 1984. Cardassians are starship troopers

Back Flip Bet

The writers have a trek bible they can use for references. And I believe it's in alphabetical order. That's my theory and why everything is andorian. Beer, food pets music ect. Glad they turned to the S section!

Back Flip Bet

Is that why he loves making evening dresses too?

Back Flip Bet

Well the planets have evolved to have one world governments, were the species on the planet have become homogeneous, no more races or countries. It's basically welcome to our planet we are the ____ people! No need to visit China, then Washington dc then France.

Back Flip Bet

Have they figured out the bajoran uniform convention yet? Medical is orange and purple, engineering green and gray, security light brown, operations light red, command two tone grey.

CuriousMind

Am I missing something? The entire episode is blurred out and muted, so aside from the ending commentary this is us awkwardly waiting for out of context commentary

TrekWars

You need to watch your own copy alongside this video due to copyright issues.

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 4 Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1