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UNCUT - The Collaborator (DS9 S2E24) | Star Trek Journey 325 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-11-07 15:00:18
Edited:
2025-11-08 14:40:47
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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Cory Paton

All-timer Alex rant during the opening hahaha

Joe Concepts

I dislike that guy so much, I don't even remember his episodes. And sorry guys, I even skipped the reaction and went right to the discussion...

Target Audience

That’s better than watching the reaction and leaving before the discussion 👍🏻

Narnman

6:58 he's already has his erection,, oh you said election

Darren

Nice ideas here and memorable for the end with DS9 choosing the villain to win (plus a far more interesting character) Replace Bariel with a shop mannequin and would anyone notice. 🤷‍♂️

Jonathon Tsagris

Just think, if DS9 didn't have such a leisurely intro sequence, you wouldn't have had time for that rant

Gryff

I'm on the first time watch through with you guys, but I'm gonna start commenting "REMEMBER THIS NAME!" on randos to mix in some chaos.

Jonathon Tsagris

DS9 is blessed with some of the best recurring characters in all of television. Any show would consider themselves blessed to have a character like Winn, or Dukat or Garack, and DS9 has all of them and more

THE LORE!!!

If Bareil is half as stiff in the bedroom as he is with his line delivery, I can see why Kira likes him.

Murthag

Then you shouldn't skip this episode.

Zenlike Creature

I understand your feelings, Alex. I hate spoilers top; however, I can't believe you may have spoiled Star Wars for someone on here. Shame on you! ;) I enjoy this episode, it helps flesh out recurring characters and the world around them, something DS9 can do due to its reasonably fixed location. of Bajor. Getting close to the end of this season and really looking forward to seeing your reactions to the final two episodes.

Murthag

The Kai is only a spiritual leader of Bajor. Sure she will have some influence because religion is important for Bajorans, but there is still the government who makes the decisions. That's probably why as bad as the emperor-stuff.

misti-step

that scene in the beginning with bareil and kira, kira did NOT feel like herself, she seemed like an entirely different character

A Plain and Simple Tailor

Bareil acts like he always just took one too many gummies and they are just starting to kick in

Einar Sigurðsson

wow you are so right, I never noticed but the directing in this scene is wild for her character

Terminaldogma01

I propose using the DS9 intro to roast chatters from now on

Einar Sigurðsson

am I the only one who thinks the DS9 intro is the best one out of all the series' ? I am so confused its not liked!

Duncan McDonald

Controversial, but honestly I love these religio-political episodes. The Wynn/Bariel/Kira dynamic is always epic. I do get the comments about it being flat - there probably could have been a bit more "whizz-bang" at times, but I feel the payoff at the end learning about Opaka made it worth the wait.

Vina

Bareil is a pretty dull character. At least this gives his character a little more complexity.

Darin Starr

The title sequence conversations are the best part of these reactions, hahahaha

Zack

Love to hate Wynn. Always a good time

Better Watch Trek

I really hope we will get a compilation of all the DS9 title sequence reactions!

Worf and Riker Ride Again

How would you guys like a Vedek Bareil's Big Day Out episode? One where Bareil is narrating his own day (like Data before him) and his adventure navigating the tricky world of Bajoran politics under Kai Winn's rule. Every other scene could be Winn getting on the video call and giving Bareil a shitty job, and then berating him for not doing it properly. At the end of the day he'll treat himself to a nice orb vision, sometimes he'll make out with Kira, other times Winn.

Trekkie74205

Still amazes me after all these years. Who are we gonna get to play "Winn" on our little space show? Oh, just Academy Award and BAFTA winner for Best Actress Louise Fletcher. What is her expertise? What did she win these awards for? Playing a bitch.

Jon1701

It doesn’t help that there is zero onscreen chemistry between Nana Visitor and Philip Anglim. Impossible to tell but it seems like the actors hate each other. I can’t quite put my finger on what it is but those bedroom scenes are about as sexy as a bag of wet cement.

tyranusfan

Opaka is one of my favorite minor characters, and I loved seeing her again here.

Shortskirtsandexplosions

At the risk of being a Bareil apologist, I *think* that the "bland" reaction to Winn becoming Kai is a *purposeful* move on behalf of the writers and actors. Kira and Bareil are not behaving like it's the Apocalypse for Bajor because the episode is meant to display their far greater, more dramatic, and more intimate concern for the existential nature of their personal *relationship*. Kira has always been someone who fights for her people, but her relationship with Bareil is an extremely personal thing that she's made herself vulnerable to, even going so far as to accept and love Bareil while also admitting that the two of them have religious disagreements. What's at risk here is something seemingly so fragile and precious to the two of them being destroyed by what was--for a good half of the episode--perceived as an act of deception on Bareil's part, which subsequently risks destroying Kira and bringing her back to the precarious life of a fight-or-flight member of the Resistance. At the end, the two of them hold hands and walk off together because--at the end of the day--what they both valued the most (their relationship) has been preserved, and now that's clearly more important to them than bare bones religion or politics. Granted, a lot of this would be a great deal more digestible if Bareil's character was... oh, I dunno... LIKEABLE to US as well... but alas, this is what we have. And I'm still mostly okay with it. Thanks, you both, for enduring Bareil. And I lurved your reactions to the twists~

Some Guy

Its ten percent luck, twenty percent skill

David Wayne Fox

It's a win with Winn! I freaking love Louise Fletcher.

Steven Linden

I like this episode overall, but I think it's seriously marred by the huge void of charisma at its center that is Bareil.

Carsten Tassilo Gräbe

This isn't an Emperor Palpatine moment. Perhaps a Chancellor Palpatine moment. Of the two major candidates, the one who pursued her goals aggressively and with motivation won. And the visions could certainly be interpreted as indicating that the prophets were in favor of this. ( Could anyone blame the prophets if they didn't want Bareil as their representative/vote?) It would have been interesting to see what the villain's visions were. He's so "interesting" that I couldn't even say if he has any skeletons in his closet. Even if he truly loves Kira, that doesn't mean he wouldn't manipulate or do something else. But he's so uninteresting that I only remembered two or three scenes with him. I'd almost completely forgotten about him. If there had been similarly interesting candidates on both sides, it would certainly have enhanced the episode. In my headcanon, he was the top candidate because the others didn't want a leader in the position.

Philbot

Bareil sucks! Who cast this guy? The log from Twin Peaks is more charismatic.

River Acheron

im just happy I can finally say Kai Winn. lol but as for the episode itself? Eh it's alright. I think I would rate it as a C+ I agree it DID come across as slightly flat. I'm not exactly sure what it needed but to me it feels something is missing.

paultardspambot .

Guys- when you say you cant believe she stayed- she said the prophets wanted her to do this. I don't think you got how clever this was. She knew what she had done. It wasn't just for the sake of those people in the Gama Quadrant. She KNEW now that the occupation was over she had to step down as Kai because of what she did. This is a briliant retcon that makes her decision in hindsight make more sense.

paultardspambot .

You hit it on the head why you don't give it up. Thats why the trolley problem doesnt work often because its an abtraction without the real world complexities. IF that worked and people collaborated, then every time the cardassians would just say, ok, if someone doesn't rat out the rebels will kill 1,000 people. That's why if you're a rebel you have to kill collaborators.

paultardspambot .

In terms of the reaction we did get from Odo to Kira telling him she loved Bareil, what did you think about what we actually got there?

harrypothead42024

Telling you Berial is not manipulating Kira isn't a spoiler, you should have picked it up through context

harrypothead42024

The Frankenstein Monster never shows up. Is THAT also a spoiler?

harrypothead42024

Boring episode. I look at it as a toll for the rest of the season

Jeff Cornell

Considering that Star Trek has featured appearances by people like Abraham Lincoln and Professor Moriarty, yes, that's a spoiler.

Banes

Bareil is too fast for Kira. The man's a dynamo. She won't be able to keep up with him; this relationship might be doomed.

Banes

Those might be my favorite kind of comments, right up there with "Oh! 27 episodes from now, you're in for a treat!"

Tim Nikiforovs

You never miss with the comments dude

JordanK1991

I liked this episode quite a bit. B+ from me.

Tim Nikiforovs

I do like the DS9 theme, but it is quite lacking in energy. The slow panning visuals of the station don't help either. VOY objectively has the best all around intro. SNW has a great intro and theme as well, and ENT has excellent visuals if nothing else. The theme has even grown on me over the years. TNG intro is legendary, but I've never been a fan of the unimaginative "ship zips past to the left, ship zips past to the right" they borrowed from the TOS intro.

Naglfarius

D for: Don't care for the Vedek Episodes at all.

THE Fans

Have no clue where any negative feelings about Beriel are coming from... Quite frankly, he reminds somewhat of myself. Any quirks he has remind me of those associated with Autism... which I'm undiagnosed, but definitely have. Especially his monotone voice and piercing stare are traits. Being hard to read has been a social hindrance of mine, which i see he is being misread alot.

Tim Nikiforovs

Again, I'm not a Bareil hater like most DS9 fans are(I think Ken and I are the only ones who aren't, maybe 1 or 2 more), but let's be real, Winn was always going to be Kai. I mean, if Bareil became Kai, our main cast and the federation would have a moderate ally as the spiritual leader of Bajor and there would be virtually no opposition or drama to write into Bajor plots. You need someone radical like Winn in that position to keep things interesting. As for the muted reaction to Winn winning(hehe, every fuckin time), I'd say 2 things. First, just a year before, Kira counted herself among Winn's supporters, and while clearly her tactics have made Kira abandon that support, let's be clear, Winn is still a patriot. Yes, she's a snake, a political opportunist, and more than willing to break the law if she can get away with it, but she didn't side with Kira against The Circle just to save herself(that too), but also because she genuinely despises collaborators. So did Jaro, he just got played. Winn is absolutely loyal to Bajor, she just has radical views on what direction it should go. The other reason I think Kira and Bareil's reaction is muted, is that they both grew up during the occupation. When most of your life was spent with your planet being occupied and millions of fellow Bajorans being r*ped and murdered, then at the end of the day, a political outcome you didn't want just isn't going to end of the world. More like "well this is shitty, but we're still a million times better off than we were 3 years ago". Like any time an election doesn't go your way, you carry on with your life and make the best of it. I do think the episode offers some decent twists. As others have said, finding out Opaka was the collaborator adds some context to her acceptance of staying behind in Battle Lines(I don't say willingness, because she didn't have a choice anyway). I agree it's impossible to say whether what she did was the "right" thing or whether more people died or were saved because of it, but I think it's fair to say she was trying to do the right thing, or at least trying to save as many lives as possible. I'm sure it's just one of millions of horrible choices Bajorans had to make over that half century. I think exile is a pretty fair punishment for collaborators. It's easy after the fact to say they're traitors and should get the death penalty, but mostly they're just cowards. Like Odo said in one of his many "you humanoids" observations, even the best people can do terrible things in extreme circumstances. It's like all the people claiming they'd be Schindlers if they lived in Germany during WW2. Like how do you know? If you grew up at that time, under those circumstances, you wouldn't be the person you are now. Overall, I give this episode a B tier. Solid political drama.

Phantom Lake Games

I feel similarly, and so does my wife. She LOVES Bariel and thinks I have a similar temperament so there's probably something to that. Haha

jon bolton

I've said it before that i don't like Bariel, i'm glad i'm not alone. This is probably my favourite episode with him in, but that's got a lot to do with everyone else. Kira, Odo, Quark and the Chief were great. Also i love Winn, the way that she can spit words of venom while keeping a sweet smile on her face. I rate it low B.

Mark Plemmons

Woo - thanks for giving me a DS9 reaction on my birthday, even if it was the pair of socks that is Vedek Bareil.

Josef Nitervol

I loved this episode, and I give it a A! For me i love the Bajorians and their religion is fascinating. When watching this in my 20s back than I didn't like the Bijorians or their religion episodes.

Summer

You might regret taking a break but maybe it will help you want season 3. Directors should have had Berile show energy at least in his visionsI agree Berile says what we like butbI think he is a male Winn. Patience there are matters you are unaware of

Numinous2019

Agree that Voyager has the best opening credits. DS9's are meant to emphasise this is an outpost on the frontier of Federation space......

BN13

I thought that that Bariel comment you were referring to meant that Bariel wasn't being manipulative the specific episode/scene that you had already watched and they were commenting on. I don't think it was meant as a general statement about Bariel as a whole. Then again maybe we are talking about different comments?

Forbidden Donut

When I spoke of Bareil not being a bad guy in that episode (Shadowplay), I was thinking only of that episode and past episodes, because of the accusation of him possibly using the orb to mess with Kira. No prior episodes, or that episode, established orbs being used like that, and IMO nothing in that episode or past ones suggests that he is bad, manipulative, or predatory, and I don't think the episode was even trying to tease that. My comment was in no way, shape, or form a 'hint' or a 'tease' of anything. He could stay good, or he could turn heel, and you don't know which it is based on what I wrote. If I’m mistaking whose comment Alex was referring to, fair enough, but part of it sounded a lot like what I had said at the time, and if so, that's pretty unfair.

Comrade of Chaos

Vedek Bareil checks Orb Hub every morning when he wakes up

David Kirk

Every Bajoran thinks the will of the prophets drives everything so Vedek Wynn getting elected wouldn't make a big splash. Even Kira thinks the prophets drive everything.

Forbidden Donut

I agree about Bareil being dull and the execution of the episode not being great, however I'm not sure what you wanted Kira to do when Winn became Kai? Scream about it, or cry, or attack her, or what? She's the pope, and that's a tough look for their religion, but what is Kira supposed to do about it? I think we see she's not happy about it.

Forbidden Donut

I generally dislike the trolley thing because it's so contrived. I don't believe in human sacrifice, so to me it's in principle extremely wrong to deliberately kill an innocent life, even if or when I'm supposed to 'do the math' or whatever. I'd rather do whatever I can to try to beat the no-win scenario, and I'd rather fail, even die, trying to do that than succumb to what I view as a very evil decision to murder innocence.

Fedora The Explorar

They explained it pretty cut and dry with that old guy being a collaborator and a traitor. That's a crime. I don't really see why you were so confused as to what his crime is.

Forbidden Donut

It's very clever, if that's what the writers had in mind. Is it that, or is just good fan theory?

Scarpad’s Domain

I'd give it a solid B , Moved the story forward and gave us a sorta mystery

Scarpad’s Domain

I'm not a true fN OF THE ACTOR he is a bit low energy , that being said , the boys still let their hatred of a chacter color episodes before actually watching them, sometimes the reaction recovers, sometimes not

Shayds

In this episode I learned that Alex can manifest snakes. A WITCH!!

Sainjl

I love the DS9 intro, but I’m a melancholy gal who loves sad songs. I can get that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but them harping on the same joke each time makes me not look forward to their DS9 reactions. I suppose as much as the DS9 intro hampers their enjoyment. 🤷‍♀️

Cranky Grandma

The final season of Loki was the trolley problem done right. And I agree completely with your post. So would Kirk

Cranky Grandma

I can’t stand Bariel. I found him creepy from the start. This episode was a flashback to what DS9 was. We get feet and fewer of those. There were some good bits and Kai Wynn always adds to an episode. But Bariel sucks the life out of an episode. Bah.

Nolan

Me, in the takes for this episode: "Look how hard we worked to not spoil Winn becoming the Kai. Didn't we do great?" Alex: "Not this time."

Doug

KAI WINN lets goooo

Doug

I usually hate Bajor episodes but this one is pretty good

Forbidden Donut

I wasn't taking into account knowledge from future episodes at all. I was just judging the episode in and of itself, and referencing back to previous lore. I did not say or imply or hint that he was good now and forever, nor did I say or imply or hint that he was good for now but will eventually be bad later. I was only speaking to what they already saw.

HeatheЯ

Does Alex weigh the same as a duck?

Sunny

Long live the Kai and her Holy, Passive Aggressive Pagh!

Greg Quinn

You guys are great but being surprised that a society would want to punish collaborators is "amazing".

Greg Quinn

Yeah I know ..in fairness I don't think these guys are too well versed in history. But... honestly...you shouldn't need to be. I mean just common sense...imagine if Russia took over the USA for 5 years, most people fight against it but some work with the Russians. Then we kick the Russians out... Should be common sense that the people who helped the Russians would be punished. Honestly the "being exiled" that happens in this show is a damn mild punishment.

Rangsk

Knowing that Bareil wasn't actually the collaborator, the fact that he keeps going back to the orb makes so much more sense. The orb was essentially telling him to take the fall even though he was innocent. He followed the will of the Prophets.

Target Audience

As always, it’s an amalgamation of several comments saying similar things, not an individual comment. It’s also not that serious.

Jonathan Llyr

Guys - Winn becoming Kai through the back door is exactly how evil gets a foothold. If the reveal had been overly dramatic it would have been completely cheeseball. I really appreciate the subtlety here. Great writing.

Avaria

Sorry, but I'm feeling a bit snarky. Yes, I did notice the blood on the dagger. I also noticed it was a small yet significant wound to a single person, rather than a room with more than a dozen hacked at people; that it took place during an episode with no new sets, no outdoor scenes, and much smaller makeup requirements; and that the episode had an entirely different director. How about we call it even?

Avaria

Not really a supporter of Bariel, but not a hater either. He was originally designed to be a sharp contrast to Winn above anything else -- so, naturally and unfortunately, that means he's calm, reserved and earthy. Or put another way, a pretty heavy drag on the tone and momentum of most stories. Another reason he was never going to be Kai. The relationship with Kira feels tacked on and underdeveloped because it is. But his history and relationships within the Assembly are interesting.

reactive1

This one is in the bottom 3 of S2 episodes for me. D

Collin Freeman

I wouldn't say zero, but it definitely lacks enough umph to play the scenes between them to the extent they need to be played.

Collin Freeman

For me, when dealing with the Bajorian religious episodes, you're starting at a C out of the gate, and you've got a bit of a hill to climb to get me to care more beyond that.

Miranda

I'm also not a Bareil hater. I also know what the writers were going for, which is a very 90s thing: The cool, laid back, young religious leader. All he was missing was the guitar to sing cheesy religious versions of pop songs. (Though, I can see why some people would find that creepy.) When I was 12 my parents moved us from a giant city to small town in a neighboring state. This was what the Wednesday night youth group pastors all tried to be. Tried. That said, I wasn't into his romance with Kira. I know they thought it might be good to give Kira this kind of calm presence to counteract her violent past. But he just wasn't interesting enough to make that work. And yeah, I don't find their muted reaction all that surprising. As you say, given what's happened on Bajor over the last half-century or so, being able to elect any kind of leader, even one you don't like, must provide some sense of normalcy. And for all we know, maybe they both think Sisko, as the Emissary, can keep her in check. Winn was the best choice to be Kai from a writing perspective, because at least one major faction on Bajor has to be in opposition to the Federation. It provides more drama for the story.

Miranda

I watched DS9 live when it aired and I never once saw Bareil as manipulating Kira. It was clear that this was not how the Orbs worked.

Miranda

Furthermore, I think the guys were actually getting misled by all the comments calling him "creepy". That wasn't the intent of the writing at any point. It was commenters reacting to an actor's performance that was giving them the wrong idea in the first place.

alyssagynepuppy

Since Alex talked about the confusion where DS9 is located in All Good Things i thought i better answer that here. Yes they moved the station in the first season from orbiting the planet to the wormhole which is still in the same system. You see in numerous episodes that people from Bajor are arriving on transport ships on the station, so basically they're not beaming, if you want to travel between Bajor and DS9, you have to take the Bus.

Aaron Wells

Basically, anytime you seem someone arrive through those big round doors that roll out of the way, they arrived via ship, not a transporter. The big rolling doors are airlocks at docking ports.

Aaron Wells

I'm neutral on Bariel. The actor...at least in this role...cardboard. Cheap shitty cardboard with amazon tape still awkwardly hanging in tatters from it.. I get it. Easy to hate. But he's not straight up offensive to behold, like a TNG Ferengi. I don't cringe whenever he's on screen. Somehow, contrary to medical science, he seems to get less stiff with Kira pressed up against him.

Aaron Wells

This is the difference between idealism and pragmatism.

Aaron Wells

I think the actor was told..."Be mystical and priestly." And the actor kinda didn't know what to do with that.

Aaron Wells

I know historical parallels are looked upon poorly around here, but bear with me: I've always thought the situation on Bajor at this point was modelled on France after the end the Nazi occupation. France also had a "government" of collaborators with the Nazis. Bajor has a "Provisional Government"...so did France. The French Provisional Government, in the aftermath of WW2, before they got themselves sorted out, went HARD on punishing those collaborators. There were thousands of public executions. Mobs that ran wild, humiliating known collaborators...French women who were known to have slept with Nazis were publicly beaten, their clothes ripped off, their heads shaved. Directly after the fall of the pro-Nazi regime, something like 10-15,000 people were summarily executed for treason. Additional thousands were also sentenced to death more officially, in hastily thrown together courts...but as time went on and people cooled off, most of those executions were commuted to prison. 50,000 French citizens were stripped of their civil rights and standing..."National Degradation" it was called. Legal proceedings went on for decades. Basically...be it in France, or on Bajor...being a collaborator was BAD. Treason...BAD. I often think DS9 doesn't do enough to drive home the horrors of the occupation. An entire WORLD subjugated and enslaved and stripped...and no just by people from across the border who speak a different language and have shittier wine....but by *aliens from another world!*

Back Flip Bet

I'm forgetting the name of the French leader but he instituted a bit of amnisty because sooooo many French served in the Vichy government. It was unsustainable to punish everyone.

Back Flip Bet

It could take 5 seconds but warping in a system is incredibly dangerous

Back Flip Bet

One time during TNG I waited forever for them to react to my favorite line. But they were laughing at a scene before and missed it. They have such fun broad laughs that they rear their heads back and close their eyes and let out a belly laugh. Perfectly timed to miss the next bit of dialogue 😭😭😭

Back Flip Bet

Opakas son and his cell must have been on demon time for the Cardassians to consider bombing the entire state from orbit. They must have took out a Legate, blew up multiple shipments, sabotaged power grids.... whew rip to the goats.

paultardspambot .

I said it was a good retcon. I don't think it's what they had in mind when they wrote Battle Lines, but it makes it make more sense in context, which is what good retconning does, explain things that seemed odd at the time.

Shatner’s Cigarette

"He has pictures of Bareil gooning to the Orb!" 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Shatner’s Cigarette

"Pondering the orb" is the new slang for "gooning to Bajoran porn."

The_Truth

You're not saying good bye to your friends from TNG yet, you still got the movies to watch

Remi Samson

Are you going to be releasing the last two episodes of DS9 season 2 before your break? Very much looking forward to them. :-)

Malamute

Was wondering the same.

Todd

DS9 was not a series I revisited, going back to more memorable TNG or Voyager episodes. Never did any rewatches. But I'm trying to hop on a rewatch these DS9 episodes almost 30 years later. Someone said below that they didn't like the Bajoran episodes as much as other episodes when younger, and I would agree. This was a much more intriguing episode for me, maybe because I'm more in tune with politics now that I was back then. I was of voting edge but never voted. I appreciate that in this episode more now. Also, since I know how the story ends, I'm now seeing seeds that were planted.

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 4 Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 GUEST: Numbnuts 1 Wynn 1