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UNCUT - Meridian (DS9 S3E8) | Star Trek Journey 336 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-01-23 15:00:17
Edited:
2026-01-24 15:26:03
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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Jon1701

Wasn’t going to watch this one but from the thumbnail it looks like you loved it. Oh dear. 😂🤷🏼‍♂️

Matchstick Jose

Oh. *Looks around at everyone* We, uh, were just messing with you. We all… love this episode. *Whistles*

Collin Freeman

This week: Star Trek DS9's take on Brigadoon.

Jonathon Tsagris

This is widely regarded as one of the worst episodes of DS9. Having just watched it again for only the second time, I think that criticism is a bit harsh but It's still not one I particularly want to watch again any time soon.

Summer

Called it! Knew one or both would like this. The directing was good

Zenlike Creature

I've always enjoyed this episode, I had no idea it wasn't well regarding in the community. I'm as surprised as you guys. The moment between Sisko and Dax has always touched me. Both actors sell the scene. I like the premise and the B plot always makes me chuckle at the end. Jonathan Frakes back in the directors chair. Clearly finished all his work for Generations and had time to spare ;) Jeffery Combs back as another character (I believe he played Borath in 'The Search', if memory serves * Correction, he didn't. My mistake. Caught something on Star Trek Fan-ipedia site - having looked further into it he auditioned for Borath but didn't get the part). Glad you enjoyed it too. Always good to buck the trend.

Goddess of Empathy

I'll admit this one isn't high on my rewatch list, but it does have some really good scenes. I love Jadzia and Sisko's relationship and this episode really highlighted how much they care for each other. Also the Keira and Quark B plot is just hilarious.

Goddess of Empathy

I think it speaks to the high caliber of this show that this one is classed as one of the worst

Jonathon Tsagris

That's fair. I'd rather watch move along home to be honest. (But I'm also a move along home apologist)

Ryan

Welp, once again you guys got me to rethink a long-held opinion. I remembered this being a garbage episode, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. It's *very* TOS in both substance and execution, which probably threw me when I first watched it, but it's a lot of fun viewed through that lens. I still have a problem with the idea that Dax would give up her career to be with this guy she's just met, but I also haven't lived for eight lifetimes, so what do I know. The B story hasn't aged well, but points for being prescient about the bad things people would do with AI and people's likenesses. Also we get Jeffrey Combs, who's so good at playing that kind of slimy villain.

Fedora The Explorar

I'd honestly say that Frakes does a legitimately bad job directing this episode. He does a poor job directing the actors and their emotions and for me Jadzia, Kira and Quark all feel very awkward and directed by someone who doesn't actually know their characters. And he also forgets to give any chemistry to the lad.

Zenlike Creature

My mistake. I was reading up on his first appearance the other day and for some reason it was stuck in my head that he did. I've just re-checked and yes, you're right. He didn't.

Zenlike Creature

Oh no, are they that bad? I've not got to those on the video yet...

awktopus

watching this again with you guys, and having recently fallen in love with my now-girlfriend in the span of a week, i do enjoy and buy into the episode more than previously. thus it has risen to a lofty 4/10.

River Acheron

Awful. Nothing particular about the episode itself. It's just not my type of story. The B-Plot on the other hand.....I could watch that all day. :P

Zenlike Creature

Ah, having looked further into it he auditioned and didn't get the part but Frakes remembered him and cast him in this role, apparently.

Randy Watson

I actually missed this episode when it aired and because of its reputation, never tried to watch until your reaction. I didn't find it bad at all lol. Was entertained by both plots!

Summer

I left that take when there were 50 takes, my percentages were more for my fellow patron takers to consider you guys would like it. (Just so you guys know if I leave takes, I am a she)

Ramen Nudels

It is what it is sorry my boys I always love yall though it's an honored to be called out . I finally did something worth noting in my life lol.

Sir, This is A Quark's.

Yeah, they keep doing this to me too. I'm 40 now... I'm not ready to engage in personal growth anymore. *rewatches Melora* Damnit!

Matchstick Jose

I think the hate is a combo of a bland (IMO) love story people are bored by, a hook (Jadzia is going to leave the show!) no one buys, and then just that very creepy, uncomfortable B story that really pushes it over the edge for people. If it had a fun Nog and Jake B story instead, I think people would just call it a C, forget about it, and move on. It was a fun reaction to watch, though, and great discussion. You actually did a good job protecting the Patrons from your violent temper this time out, though. You were more resigned than angry. Like disappointed parents.

Sir, This is A Quark's.

LMAO ... "that's why Kira asked if he ever liked Eating." -Josh 😅🤣🤣🤣 Right there with you, Alex. 👏👏👏

Ryan

I also had to reconsider Melora and that was just as weird for me. What do you mean I might have been wrong???

Jonathon Tsagris

I actually don't have an issue with the B story, specifically because the show pretty clearly wants us to think of Tirol as a nasty creep, who gets his comeuppance. It's not inherently problematic to do a plot line about bad people doing bad things. A very good example of the flip side where it is problematic is Sub Rosa - in that episode we have a character who is irredeemably awful - a being that has basically raped and gaslit and engaged in coercive control generations of women for centuries, and the show doesn't explicitly call that out - you've got Troi and Beverly at the end being almost regretful that he's dead and the tone of the show as a whole kinda treating it as fun and quirky and kinda sexy.

KR Thompson

I enjoyed this one quite a bit for the Jadzia character moments on my most recent rewatch, despite any of its flaws. I’m glad to see you enjoyed it as well!

Ryan

That’s a really important distinction. I actually think the implications of the B plot are more relevant now than they were in the ‘90s. We live in an age where this actually happens to people. It’s one of those things where it’s probably good that we have to watch it and cringe at it, as a reminder that this kind of thing is cringeworthy.

Elizabeth N

Glad you enjoyed it! I was a bit surprised about the hate this episode got in the Takes. I've always been kind of mid on it. I never liked the love interest character and that kind of ruined it for me. Despite him though there's plenty in here to like. Sisko and Jadzia's scene is brilliant.

tyranusfan

LOL! This time YOU guys were the ones going "um, actually, you have to understand..." I love it!

Derek Locke

It's not as bad as I remembered it, honestly. Really, it mostly lacked a good counter-point actor to Farrell, their chemistry just wasn't quite there to make it believable that Dax would fall for him that hard. Good story though and some great scenes for Farrell and Brooks in particular. It probably would have been better served to drop the B plot altogether to give that relationship more time to develop. They could have easily come up with a reason to have Kira and Odo on the ship with them. Quark could have had a one scene nod at the start just to get him in the episode like they do frequently.

tyranusfan

Pretty sure the location for this planet was the same as the park on Betazed in Menage a Troi and maybe the planet the Silicon Entity ate in Silicon Avatar.

THE LORE!!!

Combs was in the running to play Riker, which is partly what prompted Frakes to cast him as Tiron. Don't love Great Value Bereil and Dax as a couple but it is what it is: 45 minutes in 90s era TV. Still not convinced it's good (and I vastly prefer the B plot), but I'm glad you guys liked it and the streak remains in place.

Some Guy

Holy crap lower than move along home? How is that possible

Shayne

The air conditioning has entered the chat

Shayne

Kidding aside, I 100% agree with your take - this is one I enjoy on rewatches, a solid A. Yes the relationship with Dax is compressed into one episode, but it is handled well enough and serves the plot. While not top-tier for DS9, I personally would not rank this as the lowest point for SE3 either.

Marko

We suspected you would love this one. Staying true to yourselves and completely on character. Love it! For me this is an average C snooze fest, more so Jadzia love story which I absolutely didn't care for. Not that I found it non-believable, I absolutely would buy it especially from Jadzia living as long as she did. I was just bored with it. But I really do appreciate your point of view. And some camera angles were interesting.

Marko

2368 is 3 years before. This episode and all the episodes in this season are 2371. Each new season is a next year in canon.

David Felgate

Watching this is just like watching television - the commercials are much louder than the scheduled program.

temsik28

Never realized people didn't like this episode. Feels exactly like something I'd love to do if I had lived 8 lifetimes and was a science lover. Just go explore what it is like to live as pure consiousness for sixty years and come back to the universe with a unique understanding. Feels really valuable. Also, Probably why I really liked Wesley's last episode.

River Acheron

Horror Connection: That's Jeffery Combs as Tiron. Need I say more? The man is a horror legend. But I know him best as Herbert West in Reanimator. One the best (not accurate but BEST) HP Lovecraft adaptations. But yeah, it would be pointless to mention all of the horror movies Jeffery Combs was in. He is fantastic and actually saves this episode. For me, it would be a D. But he brings this up to a C+ for just existing in it.

Keith S

I thought the A plot was just meh loved the B plot. What amazes me is how much I enjoyed the A plot watching it with you guys. BTW Brigadoon is a story about a village that apprars once every 100 years for 1 day. This episode parallels that.

Duncan McDonald

Generally enjoyable for me. B plot is hilarious and helps to lift it. The speedy romance was about as realistic as you're going to get in 43 minutes, though I could have done without the cringe chat up lines.

River Acheron

I'm just not into love stories whatsoever.

Kimberli Sinning

I missed the Patron Takes, but I like this episode. I may be the only one, which is fine. FRAKES is the GUY! There's always something good in every one of his episodes. Meridian has phenomenal acting from our principal actors, scenic location shots, a beautiful score...and a nice story for Jadxia. It is Brigadoon in space, and it's tragic. That's what makes it fun for me.

JRandolph

As a stand-alone episode, and viewing it thru the lens of its time - both in terms of the era in which it was filmed and its time/place in the greater ST universe - this is a pretty good episode. But from a "I've watched every DS9 episode at least 3-4 times" perspective it's below average. So once again we're seeing how opinions and ratings are relative. This is an example of how, from the third season on, "bad" DS9 is still pretty damned good. (And maybe from the beginning, except for "Move Along Home". Even the people who made that one say it was just legit awful.)

Bantha Fodder

This is a C for me. Maybe a B. As usual I think Avery brooks ruins most scenes he is in. Terry Farrel was pretty good in this one. I differ with you about the guest actor. I thought his acting was fine, but his writing was atrocious. I can’t get past the endless cheesy lines. But frakes rocks as a director as usual.

James H

I remember being about halfway “bought in” on Dax leaving the first time I saw it. It was the emotional investment in the writing and acting that made it seem realistically possible. Credit for that. They did a much better job than, say, Sixties or Seventies Doctor Who whenever they wrote a character off by having her stay behind to be with some rando she just met.

Sam Langanke

Nevertheless "Brigadoon" was a 1947 Broadway musical which was adaptated for a Hollywood movie with Gene Kelly in 1954. Originally the inspiration was a novella called "Germelshausen" by the German author Friedrich Gerstäcker published in 1860. So the idea wasn't very new and not ScFi at all.

Kaleigh

I believe it is all filmed at the Huntington Gardens in Pasadena, California. Along with Justice from TNG, and the opening 3-parter for DS9 season 2 with Kira and Bereil at the Bajoran monestary gardens.

Doctor Pulaski

Starting to think you guys like this show

Jonathan

There isn’t anything particularly bad in this episode, but it is my least favorite of the season. It’s a rare episode of filler that reminds me of the lull of season 2

Doctor Pulaski

OK! We are on an 8 episode streak. Is this a new record for TA/Trek? Anyone know? (A streak must be B-banger or above. No C tier or below.) Probably came closest in TNG Season 6 and TOS Season 1... Anyone?? I'm excited because I think this streak will continue for at least a few episodes if not all of Season 3... (for DS9 only I mean. Generations & Voyager are wild cards).

Philbot

Writing love stories is hard!? They only did a little better than Attack of the Clones. 😂 This guy came off creepy at first.. like squatting by her station and “Here let me show you how to eat papaya! You are just a woman after all.” 😂

Philbot

He was not only in TDKR but also played Thomas Wayne in the Joker.

Philbot

He did his granddaughter dirty..

Philbot

In HS my cousin was in a fabulous production of Brigadoon it was almost as good as the film. Whealthy HS..

Philbot

Jeffery tried out for the part of Riker. He would have been a creepy Riker.

Philbot

Armin has a pretty mouth. 😂 💰bag the head.

Keith S

Interesting my brother was in a production of that at the local college here.

fcast17

I never noticed this until now, but during Dax's conversation with Sisko in her quarters about staying behind, her line about "leaving Deep Space Nine" in a time when they were already calling it DS9 for short could have been meant as trick to make the audience think that the show was trying to be meta about the actress leaving the show.

Scribe31oz

I didn't enjoy you first time around but watching it with you guys was fun. No we didn't think that Dax was going to leave but anguish she displays is quite palpable.

Mark Wood

For myself this episode lives and dies on the chemistry. And here, I didn't feel it. At all. The episode is shot well, Terry does good work, some nice character moments between the crew. But I don't buy the relationship. Without that, her choice doesn't work for me. I don't think it's a terrible episode, but it's in the C range. And outside of the chemistry issue, it's a complete reversal of how Jadzia has talked about the responsibility of being joined. That Dax has been stated in multiple episodes to be more important than whomever the host is. IE it's not the 60 years that's the big issue. It's the isolating the Dax away from any Trill for 1/5th of its current existence. Being the only Trill on planet, with not a single doctor who knows or understand her medical needs, greatly impacts the chance of the Host and symbiont being killed, and with no chance for Dax to be joined. That all ties back to the chemistry its necessary for you to believe that her connection is so profound that she would make such a choice. Because of that failure, the episode as a whole, even with elements that do work is still just a C. Now other parts of the episode are well done. Some nice character bits with characters where you actually feel the connection (ie believable drama). Direction is top notch. And there are plenty of Trek fans who are absolutely obsessive about many of the crafts used in creating the show. Be it Direction, DP's, Set designers and dressers, costuming, makeup, sound, musical scores, action choreography, sfx. All departments designed to help sell the story. But most aren't the story. I am a big fan of the idea you should be able to strip all that away, and know if you put the actors on a blank stage with just the words on the script, inform you if you have a good story. For me, this doesn't do it.

Trekkie74205

As much as it pains me to say it, I agree with Alex and Josh. Great episode. Dax and Bashir are the most improved characters since Season 1.

Steven Linden

Yeah, I still think this episode is terrible. I don't buy the romance at all. It's not just that it's quick; it's that the love interest is a void of charisma. We never see or learn anything about him that I can see making him interesting or attractive to Jadzia. We've seen them do this convincingly in 45 minutes in episodes like "The City on the Edge of Forever" or "The Outcast" or "Lessons"; that's not an excuse. And I'm not sure what there is to like BESIDES the romance here; it's the whole crux that the story hangs on. I do like the direction and the goodbye scene between her and Sisko, but otherwise I just can't find anything to enjoy in this one. I mean, I'm glad you guys liked it, but it's still a complete dud for me.

Marcus BlueSky

Late to the party. But genuinely surprised the ep. is so generally hated. I absolutely agree with you guys. It's a good episode. The acting is great and drawing me in. The goodbye scene with Dax and Sisko is such a great moment. A tier for me.

Jack Molitor

Man oh man…did not see this disconnect coming

Aroha

I think a big part was just knowing that we had a streak of good episodes and the fact that we're going back to tng straight after this. I was worried it would show how much worse this specific episode was lol.

Sleeper

Well I still don't get the romance, it just felt like the charisma was mostly just the fact from the first day he's making pretty intense flirting and the romance is the center of this plot. That said the acting and directing is a lot better than I remember and the B plot is entertaining. I wouldn't say its on my higher list, but it isn't on my trash list anymore.

Jack Fletcher

I have to say, I agree with you guys here, this is a very good episode. If the subplot had tied in somehow it would’ve been even better

David Wayne Fox

I haven't listened to the patron takes yet but has anyone else noticed the similarity in the premise of this and the old musical Brigadoon, in which a village in the Scottish Highlands appears every 100 years for a day and our protagonist falls in love with a woman in the village?

Tim Nikiforovs

"I'm also a move along home apologist" I'm.......I'm not alone?

David Wayne Fox

Oops, I just posted the same thing before I saw this.

Mark Wood

I love attack of the clones romance. Two actors with no real chemistry at all, acting with the sweeping Williams love theme, just reinforcing that these actors have ZERO chemistry, making the scene not better, but highlighting how bad it actually is.

Shortskirtsandexplosions

It's always a blessing when you guys like an episode that I (or others) think less of. I am most certainly guilty for "writing off" an entire episode because of ONE MAJOR THING that I find detestable about it. I could go on and on about my continuous dislike for "fake-out endings," but there's no point in defending a dead horse. Something that I REALLY LIKE about you guys is being able to take a *new* look at stuff and appreciate all of the small factors that make up the whole of an episode--like the acting between Terry Farrel and Avery Brooks, or the direction by Jonathan Frakes, or the psychology of a Trill wanting to have a "new" kind of a life. I'm consistently glad that you d00ds help me re-appreciate Trek, especially in a time in my life (and the world) where I find it hard to appreciate most things. So, thank you, and keep it up~

Tim Nikiforovs

"Great Value Bereil"🤣🤣 Perfect description

Tim Nikiforovs

I remember he played a character in a couple episodes of Gotham who got captured by one of the villains that was doing Frankenstein-esque experiments swapping around body parts from different people. There's this scene where he wakes up and it's a man's head attached to this female body stitched together from a bunch of different donors. Kind of a dark reflection of the ending of this episode's B plot.

Joshua Gudiso

You have Mike Stoklasa in your corner.

River Acheron

Jeffery Combs even saved the absolutely ABYSMAL 1999 House on Haunted Hill. As far as I'm concerned, there are two actors that can save ANY horror movie they're in: Jeffery Combs John Saxon. (okay and maybe Nicholas Cage.)

River Acheron

Avery's acting is amazing I think!

Tim Nikiforovs

Admittedly, there have been quite a few occasions where your observations and analysis have made me rethink eps I otherwise thought were mediocre or boring. "Not this time" First, I want to preface this by saying that to me, the script/writing of an episode is like a recipe, the acting/sets/effects/etc are the ingredients, and the director and certain other people in the production are the chefs. A bad chef can in fact ruin an episode that otherwise has a great recipe and ingredients going for it. I think it's harder for a good director to save an episode with a bad recipe, even if the ingredients are decent. As for saying we just want pulsar/nebula dilemmas, sit the eff down, because we're getting into it. I like a romance as much as the next guy, but I just don't buy it here. Also don't see a ton of great acting/writing. Are there some examples, sure. Bashir and Dax's goodbye was good, Sisko's goodbye really started to show Avery's talents, the ending scene was quite good, and Dax's "all the way" was properly flirty. But the tree climbing scene, patting the grass to sit down, Dax's exaggerated reaction to slimy pond berries, or the dude infantilizing a 300 year old woman but hand feeding her this fruit(8 lifetimes and you think she can't figure it out). "I want you with me naow". The kinda cringe choking as the planet disappears I give some slack because that's tough to sell. There is virtually zero chemistry between these 2, and the few scenes of genuinely good acting were spaced out by long stretches of mediocre at best acting and writing. Their romance comes across as a fanfic written by a 14 year old with no romantic experiences. You COULD convince me this guy was compelling enough to go on a 60 year extradimensional adventure with, but the episode didn't sell it. Yeah Frakes did a decent job directing, and there's bits of convincing acting, But that doesn't salvage the episode for me. And it's not because I want to hear more about "nebulas or pulsars", it's because there are way, WAY better romances in Trek that are better acted, better written, and that I was sold on EVEN THOUGH they had less of the runtime devoted to them. Let's start with Melora. I was admittedly pretty lukewarm on that episode, and your reaction elevated it for me. While it has it's problems(zero G runabout fight just ain't it), selling me on the romance isn't one of them. Seeing Bashir break Melora out of her defensive shell and actually start to have fun, the klingon restaurant scene, Dax and Melora talking in the runabout, and the disappointment they both feel when she decides to leave, it's all very believable. Half a Life. That episode arguably had more time devoted to "nebulas and pulsars", not to mention the moral issues of a society that discards it's elderly, and yet Majel and David SELL these 2 people finding love later in life, and they SELL the pain of his people ending it by forcing him to kill himself. The Forsaken isn't even a romance episode. Lwaxana is infatuated with Odo and he doesn't share her feelings, and that's only the secondary of 3 plotlines, and it somehow manages to STILL be a better and more convincing romance. Forcing one very introverted and one very extroverted character together, and having them meet somewhere in the middle and Lwaxana drops the mask and opens up about how lonely she is, while at the same time Odo learns that he doesn't have to hide who and what he is. Not everyone is going to judge him. She convinced him to break down a few of those walls and trust her. Way more convincing with way less time devoted to it IMHO. Runtime isn't the issue. Second Chances. There is SO much more chemistry here, and Tom and Deanna's scenes are SO much better written. Real talk, the whole "I was waiting for the right woman to fall out of the sky" is a C tier set of lines. It's the virgin "it only had to happen once" vs the Chad "Maybe one night we were looking up at the same star, and you were thinking about me, and in a way, I was thinking about you". Way better romance. Lessons. Lessons barely has a B plot, and that B plot exists only to serve the A plot. The whole firestorm is only there to put Picard in the position of potentially ordering a woman he loves to her death, and for a while he thought that's exactly what happened. Lessons is ALL romance, and Wendy and Patrick have incredible chemistry, and all the pain and joy of their brief time together is sold to the audience flawlessly. Lessons is 100x the romance Meridian will ever be. I could go on, I didn't even get into TOS examples, but suffice it to say, my views on this one haven't changed. Now do I hate the episode? Is it the "Worst! Episode! Ever!"? No, not even close, it's just very forgettable and bland. Yeah the B plot is kind of fun, and Kira's choice of how to deal with the situation is hilarious. And yeah, I agree that Kira saying she's never won anything hits in the feels a little bit. It's a small thing but Nana sells it. Also in principle I can see Dax choosing to go off on this 6 decade non corporeal journey, and that would be a brand new adventure for the symbiote, and she'd return not having aged and be able to continue her flesh and blood life. I just don't buy Blandy McBlandface being the one to convince her to do it. So in summary, while I'm glad you guys got some enjoyment out of it, this one gets a D from me. (D)on't hate it, but I really (D)on't care either.

Steve Syme

I love it when Target Audience and the Patreons disagree.

Sean Bergeman

I noticed it the first time I watched it when it aired. I often refer to this as 'the Brigadoon episode '

Chris Moe

LOL! ...of course they like this one!

Callum Roberts

I’ve never thought the episode was anything special but it’s not bad. I’d give it a B. You’ll find that unfortunately it’s a common trek fandom thing to massively exaggerate whenever something doesn’t fit some narrow definition of what trek is. Looking forward to the reaction to the next episode though. I feel like it will have one of the best reaction moments so far.

Some Guy

I had no idea this was so hated, I thought it was filler but not offensively bad

Some Guy

I didn't consider it great, but the hate still really surprised me

Back Flip Bet

Don't let anyone tell you DS9 is stuck in one place. These niners explore planets a lot.

Some Guy

Avery dances on the edge between amazing and cringe, and over time gets better and better at not going over the esge

Matchstick Jose

Bantha Fodder thinks "Average Brooks" is too generous.

Aaron Wells

Its not offensively bad...just out of place. Its like a pointless season 1 TNG episode... doesn't mean anything to anything else. Also, Dax is out of character...acting far more the foolish young woman than wise old being.

reactive1

The park where they climb the tree is the same one Dax saw inside the wormhole in “Emissary”.

Aaron Wells

Avery Brooks is, I suspect, an intentional overactor. He's a musician at heart, and it's like he's just blasting those high notes.

Laura Thornley

Not a fan of this episode. Its not necessarily 'bad'. Just kind of boring. For me, at least. I hope others enjoy it. Its probably the only episode of season three I don't rewatch when I do a marathon - which shows how strong this season is.

Ryan K

"Do you always do that when you're concentrating?" "Do what?" "Bite your lower lip." "No." *DS9 end theme plays*

reactive1

Jeffrey Combs is in a movie called “The Frighteners” that I like.

Forbidden Donut

You guys this episode: "It's good, get over it!" Us, speaking about the show in general, back when you were struggling your way through season 1: "It's good, get over it!"

Forbidden Donut

If her decision doesn't make sense, and the episode doesn't happen without her decision, then the episode doesn't work.

reactive1

Brett Cullen plays a recurring character in another series I love called “Person of Interest”.

Deep Red

If i had a nickel for every DS9 episode that TA liked that the audience didnt, and the episode name started with "M-E", I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot... but its weird that it happened twice.

Malamute

I really like this episode. Not sure why the rating is so low. I mean... "How far down does it go?" " All the way..." and Quark making interactive porn... Priceless... Hahahaha... I call it an A.

TC Green

“It must be legendary dick.” I’ll be honest I had not considered that possibility.

jon bolton

Personally i like this episode. I thought it had some great moments in it with Dax, and i love the entertaining Quark story. I rate it B, the only reason it's only in my bottom 5 is because I consider Season 3 to be so strong. The guy who was attracted to Kira was played by famous horror film actor, Jeffrey Combs.

reactive1

Jeffrey Combs didn’t appear in a Trek episode prior to this one. He’s just been in a bunch of other films and shows.

jon bolton

I remember in Season 1 Alex in particular seemed disappointed we'd be stuck on a station dealing with boring Bajoran and Cardassian politics (which i know he now usually loves as much as i do), but no proper ship to explore new planets. Now we have the Defiant, and Meridan was definitely a new planet for Starfleet to visit. Happy now?😂😂😂

Forbidden Donut

Credit to Avery Brooks. I felt we already knew he had this in him since 'Emissary'. He shows a lot of emotions in that, and it makes me emotional watching him show Sisko's pain. So, yeah, great stuff here too, just wasn't a surprise.

Numinous2019

That's such a good summation that I'm only replying to fully endorse your comment.

Forbidden Donut

I'm not entirely sure what grade I'd give this one. Multiple fine things in it, some scenes I like, cool planet idea. Nothing terrible. But along with not being sold that this guy swept Jadzia off her feet to the point of making that huge life decision, I just easily forget about this one until I'm later reminded. So.... B-? C+?

Pixels At Dawn

I guess the real question is how many crew members the Enterprise has lost since their elite Transporter Chief left the ship

Numinous2019

Once again I am not saying you both are wrong, or that your personal tastes are wrong. My point is we all have biases and preferences about entertainment. Like 'Melora' both viewers and critics consider 'Meridian' a weak point in their season. This is inspired by an old musical plot and it is asking me to engage in a 0 to 60 in 3 seconds romance that (like Josh always says about the spaceship at risk of blowing up) I know is contrived solely for this 44 minutes.

Target Audience

I guess. It feels as though it “doesn’t work” about the same level as countless other things in this franchise that people generally look past all the time, but this one gets singled out conveniently. Again, not liking the episode is understandable. You gave it a C-B score above. Our confusion was all of the extreme patron takes and lowest IMDb score of the series thus far, which even if you don’t buy into the story, doesn’t make any sense.

Forbidden Donut

The real Deep Space Nine. .... I'll show myself out.

David Kirk

I didn't buy the quickness of the romance at first but re-watching it with both of you made me like it better and remember it was over a 12 day period. I agree that the writing, acting and directing were very good. By the way I liked Melora also.

Forbidden Donut

It may be hit and miss for what any of us does or doesn't believe works, especially if we broaden the topic to include plot devices, coincidences, or pseudoscience stuff spun into scifi concepts, but if we're just talking specifically about the characters, then I'd be curious to be reminded of other past character choices that didn't seem to be in character but that you were okay with because it had to fuel a plot development? For Jadzia, part of what opened my eyes more on this was hearing Terry Farrell discuss this episode on a podcast not too long ago. She seems to see it more like we / the detractors do. As she pointed out, Jadzia is generally written to be a highly intelligent Starfleet science officer, and also a very mature person because of all of the lifetimes of wisdom and knowledge that she carries with her via the Dax symbiote, and what this episode gives us doesn't seem to add up enough to make us believe that this relationship was 'Jack and Rose in Titanic' or whatever, strong/passionate/deep enough, that it would convince Jadzia to make the choice that she makes. It also doesn't help that I found the actors' chemistry just okay, and likewise his performance and character was just okay. If those two elements had somehow been knocked out of the park, maybe then I could believe it, but even then it's always very tough to pull this off in a 44 minute episode. I never bought Riker falling for the single-gender species character, either, even though I bought that he cared for her, to name one other example. Lessons might be the gold standard for making me buy it, and even then it's still under tight time constraints. I agree that the extreme negative takes don't make sense to me, either. It's far from 'offensively bad' or whatever.

Target Audience

I was talking overall, not only character choices, but off the top of my head, mirror Chief deciding to stay with Sisko in the mirror universe instead of going with Kira and Bashir is clearly because they can’t have two chiefs on the show, so I don’t buy the choice but it’s like ok whatever. I understand that isn’t integral to the plot of that episode, it’s just a random example of what I’m thinking of that happens literally all the time because it’s a tv show so I accept it.

EnigmaticPenguin

I don't care much for this episode, nor has this particular rewatch swayed me. I will however say there's very few episodes that I dislike as strongly as people expressed in the Patron takes. Force of Nature over on TNG is pretty much as close as I come to hating an episode.

Naglfarius

50% of the Episode is C Tier at best for me. But than there are these Banger Scenes from Dax! The Goodbye to Sisko, the Endscene, and overall the Atmosphere of Belief, we might actually loose Dax in the Show. I had 2 Times a Ninja chopping Onions near me, so i could never give this Episode an C. And with the iconic Quarks Face on Kiras Body Scene, i end on B+ for me.

DthDisguise

The Patron takes on this one are insane! This episode is one of the most inoffensive, middle of the road, safe Star Trek Episodes, with some amazing acting on the part of our main cast. Will I remember anything about it by the next time I watch it? Not if this rewatch was any indication, but I also don't remember anything about probably 90% of ToS.

AAckeret

I had mostly forgotten about this episode. Didn’t love it, didn’t hate it. Remembered the Kira Quark plot, but couldn’t have told you the other plot or the episode name.

Aaron Wells

Jesus. Now that I think about it... There are just so many Star Trek things that could actually be marketing terms for some seriously thunderous adult toys.

Erik L Jerks

I think it's fair to say that your "typical" Star Trek fan has an inherent bias against romantic episodes, especially ones with the female leads. It's a solid B for me, with some A+ emotional scenes by Avery and Terry in the second half.

jon bolton

To be fair i'm sure she's seen plenty, in her lifetimes. I won't say how many Dax hosts were female, but i know.😋

jon bolton

Thank god. I was starting to think Josh, Alex, Summer and i were the only ones.

jon bolton

In a weird way i agree, sort of. I do like the episode, but in a such a strong Season i sometimes skip it.

jon bolton

I knew when they were saying in Season 1 they wanted more from those 2, i thought 'give it time'. Both are in my top 10 of all Trek characters.

jon bolton

Hopefully they love Generations. It's my second favourite of the films, having said that The Undiscovered Country is my favourite, and we know what they thought of that, especially Alex😂

Doug

You know, it can be a bit of a downer when they don't like an episode everyone else likes, but it's always so funny when they love an episode everyone hates

jon bolton

I think Avery Brooks is an amazing actor. As much as i love Patrick Stewart, William Shatner ...and others, Sisko is my favourite lead commanding officer.

jon bolton

Seriously am i the only person in the world who loves Move Along Home?😂 If i am i can live with that.

jon bolton

I love Re-Animator too, it's my favourite horror from 1985, that's my second favourite role i've seen him in.

kevin coleman

I will never be mad when someone loves an episode. Even if it's a shitty one :-)

Jason Aud

Jefferey Combs name might have come up but probably not from Trek before. He did other movies up your alley that you might have seen him in though. He did audition for the part of Riker for TNG, funny this episode directed by Frakes lol. This is one of two episodes I was thinking from the season I put in the "fine" column. Not necessarily because I thought they were horrible just not one's I put in the top favorites, just fine.

Summer

I love the Jake and Odo and Jake and dad and Odo parts of Move Along Home, to me that is wht the episode is supposed to be about

Miranda

Going to watch this now. Really hoping you two actually like this episode, because it is quite fun when you like an episode that I think is terrible.

BN13

My problem with Star Trek episodes that are very clearly "romance of the week" episodes, is that you know from the very beginning that this romance is going to start, develop, and die, all within one episode. Knowing that usually makes me instantly check out because it tells my brain "hey don't bother getting invested in this relationship because it's going to be meaningless in 30 mins." It makes it hard for me to get invested even in episodes like Lessons, where after watching your guys' reaction to it, I agree is executed exceptionally well and is a very good episode. It also doesn't help that I usually can't stand the male love interests of the week in particular. To me, they almost all feel like 1-dimensional "sexy dude" romance novel characters, instead of real people, or they feel very creepy. The guy in this episode isn't too bad though. I definitely still get those vibes, but at least they made him a scientist who is much older than he appears, just like Dax. It makes sense that Jadzia would be attracted to him, and the time pressure they both have makes it make sense why they feel they have to move so fast. I also agree that people who think this is out of character for Jadzia have probably never experienced something like this. This can happen to you no matter what your age. Plus Jadzia herself is still young in her 20s. This is completely in character. I'd probably do the same thing in her situation. In fact, I kind of actually did considering that I married my husband not long after we met. That honeymoon phase of a new relationship can feel very strong and convince you to do all sorts of crazy things for love. I still think this episode is one of the weakest of the season though. But that just means the rest of the season is that good. Your streak might not end for a very long time.

Jeff Cornell

I think whether you can more easily buy into a "Trek-speed romance" or "the station's going to blow up" comes down to a basic difference in mindset when watching a show. The question is how much are you focused on your viewpoint as an audience member who is separate and detached from the show, vs. how much are you focused on what you feel from putting yourself in the characters' shoes. If I'm focused on my own external viewpoint, it's easier to accept the necessary compromises of a standalone 45-minute episode and buy into the Trek-speed romance. But if the station's supposedly going to blow up, and I know it won't, there's no suspense. But if I'm focused on putting myself in the characters' shoes, the characters don't know the station has plot armor, so I can feel their suspense through their eyes. But the Trek-speed romance is harder to relate to and takes me out of that mindset.

Nolan

This episode probably hits different if you don't know Jadzia is sticking around. But you just KNOW at the time of airing there'd have been spoilers discussing Jadzia's continued role in the show, and tabloids about it, at which point all the push and pull of her leaving seems prefuctionary, the fact that by this point there'd been YEARS of romances of the week that ultimately amounted to nothing and it was highly likely this would be more of the same. So for most, there are no stakes and no investment in this romance.

Ross Townsend

I owe you guys an apology on this one. I am trying more often to re-watch before leaving a take, and did not here, so last watched when I was a teenager, most likely. Most of my memory is of Timor the predator and Sandy Haired "I want to feed you fruit" dude. I did not recall it was 12 days, or the gravitas and quality of the acting. So, like the Bonding and Melora, thanks for adding new value to Trek for myself (and others. I'll wager)! Fine. God damnit. I'll go rewatch The Loss now.

Sunny

My cold shriveled heart just can’t get into this episode but I am so amused that you both liked it so much. With all the talk about how there weren’t any fails so far in the season, I was so sure this was the breaking point of the streak but DS9 S3 held strong. This is why I like the honesty and blind watch approach in TA reactions.

Sunny

Seriously, it reminded me of a guy at work who offered to show me how to copy/paste in Microsoft. Oh while you are at it can you teach me how to walk?

Miranda

Yes! I love that you two liked this! It made the watchalong so much more fun. However, watching it again didn't change my opinion that it is terrible. There is zero chemistry between Farrell and Cullen. His acting is incredibly wooden. Unfortunately, the script requirement that this move so quickly makes him seem incredibly creepy and overbearing. The first thing he says to her is a reference to wanting to see her naked! This wouldn't have been so bad if they'd had chemistry, but they don't. Alex joked that he must have legendary dick, and yeah. Alex identified the exact problem. It is nonsensical that she'd throw away her life on this dull guy she just met. Compounding this problem is that the B-plot can be summed up by "Yep, men are creeps". That B- story is not saying anything else. Just "men are creeps". And consequently this kind of seeps into the A-story, unintentionally, and makes Cullen's character feel even creepier. The one good scene in this episode is the one between Dax and Sisko. There is some great acting by the two actors there. The script and score are hard selling that she really wants this, but there is nothing in the episode that backs that up. This is either the worst episode of Season 3, or the second worst. Bottom 15-20 episodes of the entire series. Edited to add: And I'm not against romance in Trek. Loved the romantic angle of "City on the Edge of Forever". I think "Lessons" is very strong. I love "Half a Life". The romance part of "Melora" is fine, that isn't my problem with that episode. But romance requires actual chemistry between the actors, and that doesn't exist in this episode.

Ross Townsend

(running back into room once finishing watching) "AND ANOTHER THING! How dare. The Storyteller is an A experience just watching Colm struggle his ass off to sell the lines and scenes he knows are utterly ridiculous, and all of Siddig's giggling glee is not Julian, but the actor watching his co-star ride the struggle bus. Ty for listening to my Ted Talk.

Scarpad’s Domain

Yeah I never like these character love episodes as they always seem forced. This was no different

Miranda

Not true. Trek fans don't hate "City on the Edge of Forever". They may not love "Lessons" the way these two do, but that isn't a maligned episode. Trek fans are fine with one episode romances as long as the script makes sense and the actors have chemistry.

Scarpad’s Domain

Even though I’m not a fan, that’s just fucked up

Forbidden Donut

I would agree Smiley's choice felt convenient. But as you say, that one doesn't really drive the whole plot, plus it's not one of our main characters (so to speak), so for those reasons I guess it just didn't hit me the same way.

Scarpad’s Domain

I agree this episode hinges on whether you buy the relationship or you don’t and there’s not enough here to make it work. I agree with the person that said they should have dropped the b plot and added on the relationship, for me one of the weakest of the season C

Nolan

Oh yeah "Hadzia"... that's the joy of MS fingers and Patreon chat replies not having an edit button. 😅

Nolan

"City on the Edge of Forever" gets its strength not from the romance, but Kirk's choices as he struggles between his duty, his feelings, and his morality. Here Dax doesn't really struggle with her choices, and instead struggles with the consequences when The Plot takes her choices away.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

I don't know, I never bought into the Traveler/Wesley romance.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

>You could not agree with the Patron Takes. >Where did that bring you? Back to Dr. Stubbs.

Kerplang

H for 'Hallmark movie' tier

Fedora The Explorar

Well exactly. Isnt it worse to make something boring then to make something offensive that will stick in your mind? That's why this episode is one of their worst.

JordanK1991

You guys didn't change my mind about this episode, but I must say, I think I enjoy it a LOT more than those who wrote the Patron takes! I always liked the acting in this episode, as well as the great scenes between Jadzia and Benjamin. The B-plot is absolute gold. Makes me crack up every time. Overall, I give this one a C- (6/10). Not great, but not terrible either.

Chris Mickelson

I thought this one was great! Of course my first time watch too so I guess this episode doesn't age well over time? Character story with sci-fi underpinning along with a comedy b-plot. I guess its one of those that people love or hate but not much in between?

Dr. Paul Stubbs

One thing that probably does make the episode better on a first watch is not knowing whether Jadzia is leaving the show. It happened with Tasha in TNG, it could happen here.

Paul

I agree, if I can suspend my disbelief of the romance side of the coin, and buy into it fully, then it's a pretty damn good episode. So many excellent character scenes, especially with Sisko.

cricketlenny

Not gonna lie, didn’t expect such a warm reception, but glad you enjoyed it. I think the rushed relationship thing is particularly unappealing for most viewers because of her turning down Bashir despite all their time and moments together. Jadzia is under no obligation to date Bashir. However, viewers invested in both characters will see her turn down the smart charming kind man who’s saved her life multiple times, only to turn around and essentially abandon her friends to half a lifetime long commitment for the guy she spent a few days with. I respect your points on love being unexpected and deeply compelling, but it makes her come off as flippant instead of considerate.

Jonathan Llyr

I never had any strong feelings about this episode one way or the other and I hadn’t seen it in years until this reaction, and this is one of those times that watching it with you guys actually made me appreciate it on a few levels that I’d never paid too much attention to before. I have always enjoyed the Quark storyline (I’d watch Quark read the phone book for an hour) but I’d never really paid that much attention to the Dax story as it always felt like your generic “romance of the week” type of storyline. I still kinda’ feel that way about it but you’re correct about the performances and direction. All top notch. I used to skip this one when I rewatched this season but now I won’t anymore.

Kimmo Siniluoto

For me it is low B or C. It is okay. I think I liked this more first time. I think it was definitely B tier or even better.

KingPin124

Am I the only one who feels bad about crapping on the episode in the takes? Don’t let us take away your joy in any way! I called the episode a D and joked on it a bit, but in reality it’s about a C. I’m sure I’ve watched the entire series 10 times over or more. It’s very hard for us patrons to rate it any better. It’s not that it’s terrible, but for most folks it’s just an average forgettable episode. I’m SO happy that you guys are loving so many of these episodes! Don’t let any of our takes bring anything down for you. I feel like Alex was so deflated after these takes that I felt bad. Keep on loving the episodes!

HeatheЯ

That's so great they liked this episode! This was such a fun reaction to watch. I didn't realize so many people hated this episode until I was doing the Patreon Takes for it. I like this one, it's not in my top 20 or anything , but yeah it's good. <3

Anthony Hernandez

I really didn’t care for this episode for many years. The guest actor and the special effects at the end are what played in my mind when I thought about this episode. However as always, seeing TA have so much fun with it made it more enjoyable for me, and I never used to look at the direction of these episodes until TA, so that plus noticing the the acting made it better than I remember. I think also seeing another generic planet of people that have no depth and that I don’t care about kept me from enjoying it. I always liked the B plot however.

AdmiralMurphy

I still don't like the episode, it's a C or D for me still. I just really hate the script, but the acting and directing has swayed me from E like I might have given before

Trillhouse

I've always liked this episode just fine, but I'm actually going to do the weird thing where I defend the haters. Josh mentioned that he weighs "all elements" (eg. acting, writing, directing etc.) equally, and that a small slip up in one area isn't an unforgiveable sin. In general, I'd agree with *one* exception: character assassination. I honestly don't think either Josh or Alex would be fine if an episode popped where O'Brien just ended up being a sadistic murderer for no reason, even if it were expertly directed and acted. I think for some people, they see Dax running off with this guy as a complete betrayal of her character. She's supposed to be this wise old veteran who understands how fleeting love can be, and for her to "devolve" into a doe-eyed schoolgirl is akin to character assassination. I don't necessarily agree, but I can definitely see that POV.

Ca$hWednesday

I didn't know so many people hated this episode either. It isn't one of my favourites but I still think it's okay.If the Quark B plot wasn't in there, and there was more of the Jadzia stuff, this episode would be higher. I couldn't care less about that whole other half of the episode.

Target Audience

This might genuinely be the best analysis of how we watch the show vs how many others watch it and perfectly explains most if not all major disconnects between the opinions of us and the general fan consensus. Nice, Jeff.

sword bard

You did it! You made me like this episode at least 2 levels more than I previously did. (I never *hated* it but it was a fairly skippable one for me before. I see a lot more in it now.)

Loot Narsbaar

OMG this episode is such a dog! However, this is one of my favorite reactions. Often the best ones are when the crowd hates it and y'all like it. Finding out someone genuinely likes an episode I don't warms my heart because now it doesn't feel like a wasted opportunity. Also the irony of, "The Enterprise isn't going to blow up." Bro, it literally will the next time you're there.

Todd

Regarding Odo, when she was talking about Bareil in The Collaborator while in his office, Odo shoots Kira a look at one point that . I take that as the first indication of Odo's feelings for Kira.

shanetown

Senior Chief Petty Officer Miles Edward O'Brien. When you absolutely, positively have to beam somebody out of a weird spacial anomaly, accept no substitute.

Groovybaboon

What a cool reaction! Not gonna lie, I was not a fan of this episode, but rewatching this with you guys I thoroughly enjoyed it! I still think the romantic lead was kind of wooden, and slightly creepy the way he stared at her, but damn Terry Ferrel killed it and sold the whole relationship for me! Thanks TA. Genuinely you helped me enjoy something that I didn't before. If you ended your reaction right here I will always have this. I'm seriously grateful guys. B+ would raise it to an A if I liked the guy more.

Doug

I gotta say that for me personally, it's not a bad episode, it's just one of those mid tier episodes that I don't care about one way or the other

TinMan_7B9

I don't think 'Trek-speed romance' is the sole reason this relationship sucks. Timicin/Lwaxana in "Half a Life", Miramani/Kirk in "Paradise Syndrome" or even Data's girlfriend in "In Theory" all made me feel there was something genuine going on. This creepy guy though.... from the first moment we see him, all he does is stare at her intently and she basically decides to marry him on the spot. Even worse are the cliche "romantic" scenes in the oversaturated park. They give me the shivers. It's all fake. I don't buy it.

John M.

Had my doubts before, but now I'm very confident you're going to love the entirety of DS9 (if not as much as TNG). You've already seen 9 of the 20 lowest ranked IMDB episodes -- and you liked three of them. :)

Jay Field

*LOL* Honestly, it was pretty obvious that you guys were gonna love this one! You love Dax, you love big character moments, you like amusing side plots, and you usually buy into the instant love stories (at least, you buy in enough that the trope doesn't serve as an overriding turn-off like it does for so many people). Aside from the occasional bursts of technobabble, those three things are ALL this episode is. Personally, I do NOT like the pacing of this love story (even if it spans 12 days in "real" time), but I know that's entirely subjective, and I don't feel it even comes close to making this the worst episode ever, like some people seem to think. Plus, it's honestly kinda justified, what with Dax being a scientist and wanting to experience an incorporeal existence out of a sense of research and exploration (implied, if not directly said in the episode), in addition to falling in love. Not my thing, but I don't hate it. I DO kinda hate the appallingly fake landscaping, though! XD By contrast, I like the B-plot way more than you seem to, but again, Quark vs Kira antics are always a good time for me! I will just note (for those that thought he was extra gross for buying into the whole "deepfake Kira porn" scheme), Quark is a quintessential male Ferengi. "Females" are property and mating objects, and they are supposed to exist in the home in a permanent state of nakedness and submission. It doesn't matter if Quark is personally attracted to numerous women of other species and is capable of accepting and operating within their cultural norms, he would still prefer they functioned according to HIS worldview. He's hesitant about the Kira scheme because it's dangerous for him, NOT for any moral reasons. He is a Ferengi through and through, and has no qualms about the possible sexual exploitation of Major Kira. In his eyes, that's what the ladies are there for.

Drake

sound on this on is bad

Drake

this must be one of the lowest rated episodes xD

Mel Primus

7.5 for me. I understand why others hate this, but I’m happy with it. I’m glad to be in the minority who like it.

Mr Indiscret

Not fussed over the A plot, but I really enjoyed the B plot, I loved it !

Darren

I’m with the DS9 writers on this one is just not a story that grabs my attention and I don’t agree with the handling of Jadzia. The Quark and Kira plot is fun if you over look the icky nature of it.

BN13

And i will totally admit. When it comes to be judging the quality of an episode, I absolutely do not notice at ALL who wrote it, who directed it, or how good the acting is. Those are all things I do not care about unless they are done so atrociously bad that you can't help but notice, and even then, it might still be my favorite episode if all time if the story is good. I just do not consider that stuff important when it comes to the episode as a whole. I never bother to even read the credits because they're pointless to me unless I'm trying to look someone up. I mean yes, all of those things are essential to be done well for the show to work, and I very much appreciate the hard work that these people do. But if they do their job right, they're not meant to be noticed. I guess if we go back to the restaurant analogy, it would be like if someone presented this magnificent cake to me in a restaurant. When enjoying that cake, I am not going to care who the baker was, who the kitchen crew was, whether or not they were a Michelin Star chef or a celebrity, or what pan or equipment they used. Unless I'm trying to make the same dish at home, I do not care. I'm focused solely on the finished product. And I might not even care about the presentation as long as it tastes good. Can learning that stuff afterwards be interesting? Of course! That's why I watch this channel. Because otherwise I would have never have been aware of these things. But ultimately, all I'm going to care about is "what is the episode about?" "Is the writing good? "Is it interesting?" Did i get invested in it and enjoy it?" Or did somebody just serve me a magnificent plate of beet salad that no matter what I'm not going to like because i don't like beets? Or did they serve me a delicious cake that looks terrible but still tastes divine to me because I love cake? So yeah, this episode suffers from my bias right at the beginning because it's beet salad, and I don't like beets. I typically do not care about 45 min Star Trek love interest of the week episodes because I find a 45 min romance pointless. In order to work for me, that chef has to make the beets not taste like beets, and prepare something exceptional to where I no longer think of it as a 45 min Star Trek love story. They have to make it about something. Or get me really invested in whatever is going on. But there's nothing else going on here. It's just beets. Now you guys obviously love beets. And there's nothing wrong with that. To each their own. And no, more beets isn't going to change my mind either. But this just isn't my jam. However, I also don't think it's the worst episode ever like some people do. To me, it's just kind of bland and pointless, but still way better than the worst of seasons one and two. This one is probably still a B for me all things considered.

BN13

Got to love it when Alex gets triggered! And yes I actually do like The Storyteller more than this episode, but that's just me. I actually really enjoy the Jake/Nog/Bajoran girl plot.

mistabaka

For me it’s a C. B plot is fun, A plot is… boring. The goodbyes and the very end do redeem the A plot somewhat but still… boring.

mistabaka

Agreed, there’s no chemistry at all.

Greg Quinn

Lots of DS9 episodes I missed or don't remember. So some of these are first time watches for me. I either missed this or didn't remember it. I liked it somewhat less than you two but seemingly much more than most the of the folks here. 🤷‍♂️

Avaria

I enjoyed it more this time through than I have previously. If I had to explain why the plot happened, I guess I'd suspect it was more of a Dax-led decision than a Jadzia-led one. I think Jadzia was vibing hard with Doral, "Seems like you know me pretty well for someone I only just met," but I think it was Dax's preference for novelty and immersive experience -- something that's been consistent across lifetimes -- that was fascinated by the notion of spending 6 decades as pure, ageless consciousness, even at the expense of fully disconnecting from the present. How much of a loss is one lifetime's worth of associations really from the symbiant's perspective? At the same time, I suspect it was Jadzia Dax's nature as a composite being -- not just Jadzia and Dax, but the echos of everyone else in there -- that kept her rooted in this existence.

paultardspambot .

well, probably members of the resistance were grandfathered in with some classes but now that Bajor is independent, to ne part of its official military of course you would need to go to an academy

paultardspambot .

"what do you do?" He seems to be their main scientist. He's the Dax of their planet, needed for technobabble exposition and such. Probably why they get along so well.

paultardspambot .

huh. Definitely interesting in terms of what you guys are into. For me this isn't bad per ce. Its just very forgettable. Like I remembered the B plot, but the A plot I didn't remember at all. It kind of fell into the category of "Trek Female romaces". It seems like a lot of the times, Trek writers seem to write female based romances where our female character is into a non-tnhreatening guy with very little personality or charisma. I felt this very much was a "play by numbers" kind of roamnce. As in, I want bought in at all that Dax was going to leave, or that (generally with this kind of epsiode) it has any stakes because you know the guest lover of the week will never be heard from again or have any impact. Lessons was a bit different beacuse it was Picard and about how the burden of command made it impossible for him to have relationships. It has "sci fi" obstacle, as i said, boring non-threatening male romance interest- just very unmemorable. The quark stuff was more fun and it raises interesting questions. Especially nowadays with AI Like people are really against "depfakes" of real people, especialy for "porn" purposes but as AI progresses, this thing becomes almost sort of inevitable. The way they handle this is of course with loopholes where you need special images of people. but probably realistically, it would be trivial to create realistic images of anyone, and while we epxlored the psychology of this in the Barclay epsiode, we didn't really get into the technical implications. Of course a lot of trek stuff is like this, and even the TOS writers bble admits that that far into the future, people would probably unrecognizable tpo modern humans, but the show has to be relatable to a modern audeince. I feel like it would be interesting in terms of a moder modern take just how privacy in terms of holographt is reinforced, what relevamt regulations are, etc. But I'm more interested I guess in taking the world seriously, and of course thatn doesnt really work when you need fantastic technology in some regards but a lack of other tech (in my head canon, the TOS computers are direct neural interfaces and the universal trans;ators make aliens seem more human like and edits visually their mouth movments) But getting back to the point, to me this felt like such a paint by numnbers episode, but I am consistently surprised by what you guys like and what you guys dont like in trek. To me, "The Jem'hadar" is very exicting, and this is.. kind of milquetoast. But it's obviously very different lenses of what we get out of this franchise. This definitely felt like the A plot would have fit very well in TNG, it could have been a TNG episode and maybe thats why y'all liked it. The quote about "thinking they were on a normal star trek show" is very telling. I like DS9 because it ISN"T a "normal" trek show, although that might also be a result of having seen attempts to copy TNG and getting tired of that.

paultardspambot .

I dont think its a matter of one thing. Its just... not that interesting. Like, in terms of entertainment value, its just not a premise or execution that stuck out as memorable to me. Like for most of the ds9 reviews, i'm exicited to watch it. This one, it was more the fact that I didnt remember it that made it mildly interesting because I love the characters, but its not something that, now remembering it, I have much interest revisting. It just didnt make me care.

paultardspambot .

it seems funny to me someone would be bothered by "Quark is acting unethically!" I mean.... it's Quark.

paultardspambot .

spoiler: given what they've said, they clearly dont know whats going on here, so stating it outright at the point would probably be spoiler territory

paultardspambot .

it might have helped if Bashir wasnt so creepy from the jump with her, and also if he wasnt some one she would have to work with all the time.

paultardspambot .

dropped the Quark plot? it seems for most people that was the [art they enjoyed

paultardspambot .

Also, have to give it up for Jeffrey Combs as the creepy dude. He's probably best known for his appearances in Justice League and the voice actor of Brianiac in Injustice 2, but what an actor!

paultardspambot .

in terms of the b-plot, I dont think its about "the message" but enjoying the shenanigans. But yes, it does seem like trek writers generally didnt do a great ob of wriitng female romaneces, as the interest of the week always seems "non-threatening" and wooden, which could come off as creepy to some.

paultardspambot .

I feel like you're suggesting that may be on account of sexism in the audeince, but I would argue its more a product of these episodes not being written well and the male love interests being very cardboard and one note.

paultardspambot .

"Brigadoon" is a musical about a magical Irish town that vanishes. Behr said he was a fool for trying to turn that into an episode. -

cricketlenny

I wouldn’t go so far as to say he was creepy, maybe just came on too strong for her liking. Quark is creepy, by comparison. There are certainly issues with their chemistry so I won’t pretend he was a perfect match, but he also had great moments with her after that less than stellar intro.

Ashley Sigmon

I do have some Star Trek episodes where one thing ruins the episode - weirdly they are all in Voyager though.

Brandon Blume

I'm not in the camp of people who deride romance episodes because they happen at "Trek speed". My suspension of disbelief is unaffected by things happening "fast", unless there's just zero chemistry and zero acting skills and zero directing skills ALTOGETHER from EVERYONE involved. I believe in instant attraction. I think people having a problem with it simply have never experienced it. But you have to sell it. I can understand the guy's acting bringing it down and not selling it for you, but I don't think it's that bad. This episode is not A or S material for me or anything and it didn't affect me a ton so I'm not defending it on its own merits per se. But when it comes to "Trek Speed" romances, I really do not care. That's not something I ever complain about. I complain more (to myself) about people constantly complaining about it lol.

Back Flip Bet

Voyager is first show to have 3 bas holodeck episodes in a 5 episode run.

Evan Guthrie

Well... I'm happy that you liked it. I can't complain about you enjoying something I didn't. But I did enjoy watching you fall for it!

Tim b

You know, in this era I'm always happy if you like an episode more than the patrons, and I'm (irrationally) disappointed by the inverse. That'll become very different once you get to nu-trek though. I'd be disappointed if you think that stuff is anywhere near the level of quality as what came before.

Evan Guthrie

To be clear there are moments in this episode I do love, basically all the ones you pointed out.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

The tale is tragic because of the 60 year gulf, but it doesn't work without the relationship, and the relationship doesn't work with out it completing a hole you never knew existed in your main character, and you can't complete a character that isn't fleshed out. Who even is Jadzia? What does this guy even bring? You might be able to suspend disbelief, but those scenes at the end aren't earned without it. Sorry guys, hard disagree with you all.

Skye Maidstone

I never hated this one as much as many. It's an interesting enough story in theory just fairly boringly handled. I remember Terry getting a fair bit of hate early on since she was a model turned actress people said she was just eye candy. Her acting always seemed very good imo. Not one of my favourite at all and i'd probably skip it on a rewatch just for being a little dull. Not bad though.

Cranky Grandma

I fully believed Kirk and Edith Keeler’s love story. Not this one.

Josh Mariota

And people say the "Move Along Home" a.k.a. "Allemaraine" episode was cringe. Far. From. It. I loved MAH. This was perhaps our very first cringe episode into DS9 thus far. It's a total skippable episode during bingewatches.

irohtheteamaster

I bought into Terry Farrell's performance but the guy's wasn't strong enough for me to believe this whirl wind romance

Gregory Christ

I probably would have bought her decision to stay on the planet if there was no romance subplot. I would have bought it if her reason to stay because she wanted to experience what it was like, having an experience no other Trill had ever had. But to give up her entire life for someone she barely knows it totally unbelievable.

Lozman73

Mics were picking up the air conditioner

Prof Moff

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version Dax gets Dix The sex score board Quark 5 Jadzia 3 +1 new Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 Jake 1 GUEST: Whatever dude +1 DETAILS: Dax doin’ some smashing. And they go all the way down.