Home
Creators
Search Recent Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Community
Telegram ThePornDude
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

UNCUT - Caretaker (VOY S1E1-2) | Star Trek Journey 341 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-02-06 13:00:21
Edited:
2026-02-07 15:34:38
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

Videos

  • 609003156.mp4

Downloads

Content

This week has been one of our biggest growths in the history of our Patreon! As a thank you to everyone, we are releasing our first Voyager reaction two days early! This does not impact the rest of the month, and the next Star Trek reaction will still be next Saturday as originally scheduled.

NOTE - We have been made aware that the version on some international streaming services (Paramount+ in Canada & UK) does NOT use the 90-minute version that we watched on the DVD. Nothing we can do about that unfortunately, but we have confirmed it is only an issue for this first episode.

YOUTUBE LINK

Files

Comments

Summer

WHAT?? Yay! Be right there have to make fries

William Roberts

Excited for all the positivity incoming.

Sir, This is A Quark's.

Wow! Do you guys know when I am having a bad day! Thanks for this. And for giving me 90 more minutes of Superbowl Analysis. 🖖

Actuarial Lurker

Almost first...DS9 fan who tolerates VOY since its his wife's favorite Trek and he admires Janeway, B'Elanna and other strong female characters but despises what UPN suits did to the writing in search of mass appeal. Neelix = Jar Jar, dating a 2 year old who lives to age 9 is cringe Water is H20= Hey Kazon- you are warp capable, breathe Oxygen and can scoop up Hydrogen floating in space to make water, you cyberpunk wannabe Klingons Still have watched most episodes 9-11 times each, not in order except for my first run watch when it aired, still better than all the recent crappy sequels

River Acheron

Lets go! And I am actually NOT at work for once!

Jakob1978

Can’t wait to watch your journey through Voyager…it’s not a show I’m particularly fond of, but it’s fun watching others watch to see if they enjoy it or can offer new perspectives that might change my mind (though sadly one of my biggest problems with the show is that I just don’t like some of the regular characters, which is pretty unique to this series. Almost all the other Treks I enjoy all the main cast) Unfortunately, I’m in the UK and I’ve only got 10 minutes in and it’s been such a struggle to line up the version on paramount to your reaction that for this pilot, I’ll have to wait for the edited cut.

Cory Paton

Hell yeah, I know what Im doing after work today! Thanks guys

Randy Watson

Even Target Audience won't compete with the super bowl? Looks like I have aa full Friday night of The Pitt, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, and Voyager!

Strekonline.com

The growth is proof Voyager fans do exist. Either that or very vocal complainers lol. Time will see.

Brendon Waldron

I'm one of those people that doesn't have access to the 90 minute version so this is gonna be interesting/painful

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Firstly, many thanks for posting this early! Unfortunately, I’m finding it impossible to follow along with paramount plus, for some stupid reason they’ve reordered half of the scenes. I noticed that they also cut a ton of stuff out as compared to the Netflix version. Thanks Paramount, great job 👏

Brendon Waldron

Oh its that bad? I can handle cuts by pausing and waiting to catch up but if they've changed the order of scenes, that's just impossible...

Ryan

You guys are intrepid explorers (voyagers) for tackling this massive franchise in good faith, and you're entering the era where you really get the payoff. With back-to-back DS9 and Voyager, plus all the established lore from TNG and TOS, the back half of the '90s made the Star Trek universe so much more wild and wonderful than it ever had been before. Enjoy the ride.

Altariel

Tbh, I did upgrade my membership, but not because I want to see VOY so badly, but because I have to wait even longer for DS9 episodes now and wanted to counter that as best as I could. 😭 I'll probably watch some of the VOY episodes too, when they have rewatch value, but will be mostly skipping to the discussion to hear your thoughts.

Darren

Very curious to see what you make of Voyager and the pilot. Will watch later. I’ve often thought Janeway effortlessly dominates the screen in a way Sisko doesn’t in his fist season. You should check out the Geneviève Bujold scenes that were recorded before she quit.

Yannik M.

Paramount+ is shit. They did cut a lot of scenes and rearranged them. This makes it impossible to follow this reaction

Summer

I bought the season on amazon so not having issues with sync. I do like how Tom instantly went full starfleet

Zenlike Creature

Yeah, just noticing this myself. This should be fun trying to keep up with the guys reaction...

Jonathon Tsagris

Some major sync issues here. The paramount plus version of this episode appears to have entire scenes arranged in different order. I'm hoping it's just weirdness associated with the premiere.

Yannik M.

You even have to jump between the episodes.

Jonathon Tsagris

Tom Paris was originally intended to be Nick Lucarno; but the writers decided that character was too irredeemably awful, so they changed it to a new character with a similar background. Also, you might have noticed how Voyager's warp Nacelles look different to what you've seen in other star trek shows and the pylons can tilt up and down - if you read some of the supplementary technical writings that were released together with the show; you'll learn that these changes allow this ship, and presumably all new ships, to get around problems caused by warp travel as discovered in Force of Nature.

Zenlike Creature

Man, as cited in earlier posts, Paramount have done a great job of making this virtuality impossible to watch along with. I have no idea where Josh and Alex are half the time. I may have to bail out at this rate. So disappointed.

harrypothead42024

Fucking awesome. I am so happy that you 2 are having success with the channel.

Brendon Waldron

As someone outside of the US, by using a VPN and resubscribing to Paramount Plus via a third party like the Roku channel, I was able to finally access the 90 minute uncut version of the pilot if that's useful information for anybody. What a pain in the ass that process was...

harrypothead42024

Just download it all as a torrent. That's what I use for syncing up it works a lot easier

Summer

You have so much to see. I will probably watch again in on Sunday

Summer

I am not even going to help you pronounce names, you will hear them enough. Josh, first I would love an episode that just focuses on characters, but when you were saying it you reminded me of a reverse Sherlock Holmes, he would say ‘you should just write a list of facts’ you ‘just tell me of characters’ Watson in every case ‘you still need a story structure to do so.’

Derek Locke

I believe they felt that Nick Locarno's arc was a little bit on the irredeemable side. Locarno refused to fully accept responsibility, even when given the chance. He admitted partial guilt but still frames himself as a victim of circumstances, not as the cause. As contrasted to Paris who's conscience eventually led him to confess.

Ryan Roach

No, it was because they would have to pay the writer of that episode in perpetuity for creating the character.

Joshua Gudiso

Yes, even though it wouldn’t have been that much per episode.

Summer

For what its worth the actor considers Tom and Nick as two different people

Jonathon Tsagris

Geordi was the original TNG helmsman. Then it was Wesley for a while, and then when they wrote Wesley off it just became a sort of revolving door of ensigns. Sometimes they'd recur for a bit, sometimes it was a rando.

Daniel Garrett

Let's fuckin' GO! Teary eyes and chills from Janeway's pep talk speech. Followed you guys on YT since "The Mantrap" and looked forward to your VOY reactions all this time. Had to get on board Patreon for these. Really love how Janeway's character seems to be written to find a middle ground between Kirk's "Cowboy Diplomacy" and Picard's hard ass by-the-book approach (early seasons anyway). Always love your genuine, no BS reactions. Here's to the journey! 🍾

Target Audience

That means a lot, thank you for watching and now supporting

Collin Freeman

You're right, Josh, Gene would've probably hated this series.

Jonathon Tsagris

Tom was kicked out of Starfleet before he joined the Marquis. If you'll recall his conversation with Harry in this episode; he screwed up while piloting a shuttle, which caused some people died, and he initially tried to falsify reports to make himself look better, before eventually confessing. After being kicked out of starfleet he was angry at the world and decided to join the Marquis.

William Roberts

Or try to VPN to use the US version of paramount+. That was the version i used and it was perfect, with nothing cut or rearranged and was actually more in sync than DS9, because I didn't need to pause buffer the scene transitions to keep in correct sync.

Danny Loop

Missed opportunity to add a couple seconds of trumpet into your disclaimer in the intro lol :P

Target Audience

Unless he read a book between TNG and this that prophesied interpersonal drama, then he’d love it

John Rose

I first watched the Voyager premiere when I was 15, but I only lasted four or five episodes before I drifted away. Years later, around Season 6, I caught some reruns and got hooked! By the time the finale aired, I was fully caught up. It’s now my second favorite series, just behind TNG. It’s not perfect, but no show is. At 15, DS9 felt a bit too serialized and 'soap opera' for my taste, though I’ve since come to appreciate it and have seen all the heavy-hitting episodes.

Actuarial Lurker

Josh and Alex- its implied that Mark is Janeway's boyfriend since he says he went over to her house to pick up the dog's bed and watch her pet while she is out of the area for a few weeks. So they aren't living together. ALSO this implies that this is likely to be the first mission as captain of this ship. If they had been in deep space Mark would already have the dog and she would have "had the chance to get to know her crew" that died as she laments to Tuvok. We see Harry, Tom and the Betazoid woman Tom was hitting on in the shuttle craft all seem to be checking in for the first time. The woman complaining about Tom hitting on her at High Warp was exposition talking about 14 decks and 141 crew members as they were approaching to dock at DS9, and mentions the new bioneural circuitry that speeds up the computer control of the ship and new warp engines that go Warp 9.975 (and comply with the Warp 5 speed limit) It would seem that while Sisko was picking up the Defiant offseason before S3E1 of DS9 that Starfleet designed a new type of smaller exploration ship like Voyager with this new tech

Matchstick Jose

Rewatching this with the guys, one thing you can definitely say is that the show is the show right from the pilot. This era of Star Trek is a pretty well-oiled machine at this point, and Voyager knows what it is and hits the ground running right out of the gate.

Emptysea93

So glad you guys liked it! I had an atypical journey. My first exposure to Trek were the re runs of Voyager back on Spike TV. I started with voyager, and worked my way backwards to TOS, the opposite direction as you guys. I admit VOY may not have quite as many bangers as DS9 and TNG, but VOY will always have a place in my heart as the most fun and nostalgic (for me at least).

Back Flip Bet

Great thing about 90s trek is even if there is only 8 good episodes a season that's still a 56 hour marathon. That's longer than most Amazon, Netflix, apple tv sci fi series get before being canceled. 56 hours over 13 episodes a season. That's a 4 season long Netflix hit!

Lost Monk

They didn't make Tom Paris the same character from First Duty (Nick Locarno).... ..because the original writers of First Duty would be entitled to ongoing royalties.... and perhaps consultation and approval rights. When trying to cast Tom Paris, the creators of Voyager kept saying they wanted an actor with the same vibe that the actor (Robert Duncan McNeill) had in First Duty. They couldn't find any... and then finally someone said, "Why don't you just hire Robert Duncan McNeill?" So they did.

Sam Langanke

Don't call Ensign Gates a rando. Alex will be furious. Ensign Ro also had this position for a time.

Sam Langanke

'Have Voyager fans been beaten into submission?' Well, ehhhm, kind of. I watched both when they aired with my then best friend and his wife. We guys clearly prefered DS9, she loved VOY. We were two to one and of course 'real' fans who knew better than a female 'casual viewer'. Oh boy. I am ashamed of myself today, but you know I was young - younger than your current age - and it was the 90s.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Ok so it's not disastrous, basically the scenes with Kim and Torres waking up in the Ocampa hospital were moved, for some inexplicable reason. The first 40 minutes or so was more or less the same (but with 30 seconds here and there cut out) but then I found the easiest way to watch it was to open 2 tabs of Paramount for the two episodes and switch between. Once those two hospital scenes were out of the way, I think the rest of the episode had the scenes in order

Vexx

You guys mentioned that you find it odd that people love voyager but say it isn't the best. I feel the same way. Voyager is great and has a lot of good stuff but ds9 is the better show. Though janeway captain is best captain :D

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Great reaction guys, very much enjoyed this one! At 3:12, is this your longest reaction so far?

MadScientist

What a present! I'm flabbergasted! (It's one of my favorite English words as a non-native speaker :D )

Better Watch Trek

its like loving your children... you are loving every one of them, but secretly you know who your favorite is ;) hehe so TOS is you firstborn and you love him TNG is the perfect daughter, with A grades and univerity diploma etc DS9 ist the cool Rock Kid: you don't expect much, he is strange, but at the end a worldwide rockstar VOY is your Luna Lovegood daughter, strange but with great hearth ENT is, no comment here to avoid spoiler :P and I wont talk about the kids of your second marriage yet...

Patrick Smith

I was surprised to see dick miller in the last Ds9, and Picardo in this, I am guessing Picardo got Miller into the Graham Bell episode. Those two always guest star in Joe Dante films.

Timur Nersesov

It's rarely more than a couple of seconds off, and almost always they run ahead. I have to occasionally pause their video, count to three and be back in synch. Usually at least twice an episode. But even then, never more than 2 or 3 seconds off.

Vexx

Hahaha I love all of this and its true. Also, when I was young I super had a crush on Luna. Maybe thats why I like VOY? :D

Matchstick Jose

Graham Bell! LOL. Dick Miller was probably an Ira call. Ira was familiar with pretty much every actor in Hollywood at that point. Part of the reason DS9’s casting is so on point generally.

Keith S

Interesting thing about Robert Picardo. He originally he wanted to read for the part of Nelix. He ended up reading for the doctor. It was the secene where everyone gets beamed away without turning him off. He read the part about someone forgot terminate his program. He then adlibbed "I'm a doctor not a night lite!" and got the part.

Lost Monk

To all you who give spoilers.... especially those people who think they're being cute, clever, coy, or vague in the process.... ... Just stop. (Yes, I dared to say it. But my saying THIS is less offensive than those who keep dropping spoilers.)

Matchstick Jose

Neelix was apparently the role that actors thought popped in the script. The Doctor was seen as a lot less interesting. Definitely agree Piller and company looked at the success of Quark and wanted something similar for Voyager.

BusterB

Just blown away guys and despite watching my UK version, it was worth a few pauses here and there to watch this reaction. The UK sync issue only happens on pilot episodes. It seems that the UK and US pilot was edited to appeal to our different t cultures..

THE LORE!!!

That was a marathon watch. Good job putting in the work on that one. I think people say Voyager is their favorite but will say something like TNG or DS9 is 'better" as their way of acknowledging the many flaws of this show as a whole. Some people can overlook them and just say it's the best, my best friend is one of those people. And some people see the many issues and acknowledge they still absolutely love it regardless of it. I love Voyager...mostly. The highs are truly high. The lows are really low and... Honestly, you probably will like them based on your track record lol. But there's also a whole lot of mid. But I am happy you're starting your journey, it's the shiny new toy and I hope you guys enjoy it.

Doctor Pulaski

Thank god they like the cast/show, or it was going to be a long 7 seasons... 🖖

River Acheron

While Voyager is my least favorite out of the Big 3 (I will most likely never watch it again after this watchalong), I will say this is the best pilot by far. Also, the first season is SOLID! 8.5 out of 10 for the pilot. (I stopped giving letter grades)

Doctor Pulaski

I believe Sulu was considered a full time helmsmen, right? Also Geordi in season 1. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Kind of cool that Voyager is about the same size as TOS Enterprise, makes the series feel a little more TOS...

Ondrej K

You have seen Tuvok's actor many times: he played in TNG episode Starship Mine, then a Klingon in DS9, and finally you also saw him on the bridge of the Enterprise B in Star Trek Generations.

Carl Davies

I dont know if it's true but I read that the Paris character was supposed to be Nick Locarno but because the first duty was a spec script, the writer owns the character and they would have had to pay residual for every episode he appeared in. As such they just changed his name.

Prof Moff

I can only assume there must be many thousands of people watching the full length reaction right now. That is the only reason why I can think of that after only 5 minutes I have had to restart paramount+ three times. You guys are causing a server meltdown. They should pay you money for all the extra subs paramount + gets because of YOU!!!! oh the circle is gone let's try again lol

Summer

I forget sometimes how much I love Voyager

Holly Davis

I've been saying for years that Voyager is my favorite series but DS9 is the best. They are very different things to me, DS9 is the best written without question. But Voyager is the one that I have rewatched the most.

TalynOne

A space faring warp capable race that can't find water, so dumb. And introducing TEMU Klingons, aka The Kazon. And Jar Jar Neelix Epstein is along for the ride. The best thing about Voyager is it made Berman/Braga too busy to interfere with DS9.

Summer

Yeah, DS9 has a great broader story with characters but Voyager is like a warm blanket

Prof Moff

well that was a shitty start for me. can't seem to get paramount + to show me the show without erroring out about every couple of minutes. I am sure the new star trek crap would never have this problem. Have to try again later. Any fans using puckamount+ have any suggestions.?

Jack Molitor

Let’s give it up to Richard Poe as Gul Evek, as far as I know, the first actor to play the SAME character on three different Trek shows.

TalynOne

They've said many times they don't care what the actors think. For what it's worth Robert Beltran vocally hated Voyager, he thought the writing was overall poor. He made it very clear this was a paycheck job for him.

TalynOne

I joined for season 3+ of DS9, where things really pick up.

Strekonline.com

Best is different than favorite. One is a technical assessment, the other is a feeling. They don't always match.

Matthew Rudolph

Robert Picardo was also in Inner Space (1987) as a fun role.

Matchstick Jose

Does Armin Shimerman mean nothing to you people?!? (Though I guess technically Richard Poe wins because his scene came first? Armin's scene was the first scene shot in the pilot, though, so there!)

Matthew Rudolph

I'm watching on Amazon prime and had no issues I recall.

Some Guy

DVD rips on my home server for the win

startrekiborg

This has probably been said, but Tom Paris is a copy/different character because they didn't want to pay the writer.

startrekiborg

Watching this show was a pain in the ass. Direct TV didn't have UPN, so we had to use rabbit ears (antenna) to find it. It came on at like 1am, so we needed to set the VCR to record it. But, it was always worth it. I also remember downloading the Next week's trailer online. Downloading a two minute trailer, with dial-up, generally took 10-15 minutes. Dam, times have changed. Lol Glad you enjoyed it!!

Some Guy

Far away from Starfleet = no more Badmirals!

Libertu Pastor Bey

This is the fulfilment of a plan by Paramount: launch a network of their own and have a Star Trek show as the flagship. It took 18 years and two syndicated series. But the plan finally became a reality.

startrekiborg

Oh, God!! You said something that made me laugh hard....and I can't tell you. Lol

Libertu Pastor Bey

Oh, by the way, you now know the irony of Tim Russ being given the Vulcan Nerve Pinch by Picard in Starship Mine.

Matthew Rudolph

Omg I never realized the Steve Urkel comparison but its so true! Enjoyed your character discussions. Are you aware Tim Russ is the comb guy from Space Balls?

Some Guy

Mr tuvok, what are the results of the scan? "We ain't found shit!"

startrekiborg

Yes, Neelix is having a relationship with a two year old. That was not lost on audiences in the 90s.

THE LORE!!!

Right. But there was a whole section of the review where Alex and Josh were harping on them being the same. That's why I brought it up. Thinking they're absolutely the same is a little too close to postmoderism truth (no real objective truth, just your truth and mine) for me.

Sam Langanke

No its's not. The original Enterprise has 21 decks and over 400 crewmembers. So Voyager is with 15 decks and 150 crew much smaller.

Sam Langanke

It's 70.000 light-years back to the Alpha Quadrant, not 70 millions. But still a way to go.

Some Guy

The concept they came up with for the character of Kes is an interesting one. Given her age and if Voyager lasts for as many seasons as the next generation, she should basically reach the end of her life at the end of the show, having spent basically her entire life with our crew.

Doctor Pulaski

I was going off the size chart TA was looking at. Surely it’s not that much smaller?

Trekkie74205

Everything is always about money. The DS9 Maquis episodes were indeed to set up Voyager. Berman, Piller, and Taylor created the concept of the Maquis for Voyager. Their names were added to the "story by" credits on Maquis 1 & 2, so the DS9 writers could never claim royalties for Voyager. Ira Behr has voiced his displeasure about them thinking he could sue them someday etc. Tom Paris was created so they could avoid paying the First Duty writers a per episode fee for using Nick Locarno. Glad you guys enjoyed the pilot. Lots of great episodes ahead.

Matthew Rudolph

Benjamin Button of a sort. Each season she's visible older, like 10 years a season.

Elizabeth N

So glad you enjoyed it this much! Very excited for what's to come. I hope you continue liking the show. I just love Janeway and this crew! I think it's true what you said about Voyager fans almost feeling embarrassed or defensive at times for loving it so much in the face of so many others who are so outspokenly ambivalent or critical of the show. It has its flaws, I can admit that, but all of that doesn't matter to me so much as how it made me feel when watching it growing up and the impact characters like Janeway had on me. So yes, it's my favourite.

Elizabeth N

I agree! DS9 is 'the best' but it doesn't compare to how Voyager makes me feel. If I rewatch DS9 I need to do it in order to get the full impact, but Voyager is my go-to comfort watch. I can jump in anywhere and feel at home.

Brendon Waldron

The first Voyager episode I ever saw was the season 3 finale, well, part of it because I was a child and it was on very late at night. A little while later I was given some random season 4 and season 5 VHS tapes and I was hooked. Picked up a few more random VHS tapes over the next couple of years including the pilot and the finale, and eventually was able to watch a lot more episodes on television when one particular channel started airing it, but it wasn't until years later I was able to sit down and watch it from start to finish on Netflix. I gotta say I love the show while recognizing its flaws, but I do wonder what my opinion on the show would have been if I'd watched it in air date order from the beginning like y'all and others here have done...

Some Guy

I thought it was interesting thinking about it in her perspective too. It would be like one of us joining a ship full of immortal space elves on a centuries long journey, not expecting to reach their destination, just wanting to join for the adventure.

Shortskirtsandexplosions

I'm really glad you liked the first episode. While I appreciate you guys reacting genuinely and not "faking it" (that's what she said), I still enjoy it when you... enjoy things. Will that happen all the time? Past reactions have me mixed. There were some episodes of TNG where you commented and made suggestions that made it sound like you'd enjoy Voyager's "vibe" all around. But y'all have also been (mostly) enjoying the substance of DS9 S3. I will say this (without spoilers). As much as I have a personal "dislike" for Voyager, it is most definitely DIFFERENT from DS9. So that wish you hinted at--for having a "different" kind of show as you flip back and forth between DS9 and VOY--well, expect wish to be granted. Whether or not it's a Monkey's Paw, I suppose only time will tell. I don't like to "hate-watch" things. I genuinely look forward to this journey. I like to imagine I'm going back to 1995 and re-doing the series with an open mind and a positive spirit. Just... learn to "read the room" with this show. I think most of Voyager is... well... DUMB. But "dumb" doesn't necessarily mean un-entertaining. Voyager is a very entertaining show. That same spirit is maybe... the only thing that has allowed me to tolerate stuff like Star Trek Discovery (or STD for short~)

Marko

I watched on Paramount+, it was perfectly synced the entire time with the guys. It also is a full 90 minute, not two separate episodes. I'm in US, I don't know if you are in another country, maybe there is some different setup Paramount has?

Trekkie74205

I know what it was. I yelled at the top of my lungs. lol

Todd “Canuck” Schmuck

I would have suggested Canadian Netflix, but they literally just lost their Star Trek rights a couple weeks ago. I’ve got the first season in my owned library for Apple. Don’t know about right now, but they occasionally have big sales(I bought the complete DS9 collection for about $70 about 4 years ago so I didn’t have to break out the DVD’s with their deteriorating plastic cases that wear with each open/close every watch). They also have the 2 hour pilot as a single episode on Apple(sadly not the case for an upcoming two hour episode I’ll remain vague about to be spoiler safe. I’ll have to break out the DVD’s for it when we arrive).

Todd “Canuck” Schmuck

I’ve heard that as well. They got pretty far into development before realizing the writer of “The First Duty” wasn’t a staff writer. So they changed just enough about the character to still work without being liable for residual payments. Don’t know if it’s just an urban legend or 100% accurate. But Considering Roddenberry “wrote” lyrics for the TOS theme specifically to keep half the royalties for each use of the song(despite those lyrics never being used in the show), it wouldn’t shock me in the slightest. 🤷‍♂️

The Travelers Travels

Welcome all newcomers to the Target Audience! Prepare for a great journey with these guys! Their perspectives actually have changed my view of many episodes! ( in a Good way) My only problem with Voyager, is that my ringtone is the Voyager's doorbell, so every time someone rings it, I go to answer my phone! lol enjoy the ride guys!

Jonathon Tsagris

I didn’t. I said sometimes they’d recur for a bit; and other times it was some rando. Gates and Ari fall into the former category.

Back Flip Bet

Uh a 120 year old Vulcan had a relationship with a 25 year old human.

Back Flip Bet

They will never learn treklore. They called all galaxy class ships enterprises until ds9

Forbidden Donut

It's been a few years since I've re-watched Voyager. Nice to be back, glad you're finally here. I got a little choked up on that final scene on the bridge.

Back Flip Bet

Never watching Voyager again is crazy. Blink of an eye

Back Flip Bet

Niner here, voy still has 60+ amazing episodes

Back Flip Bet

People who love voyager over TNG and ds9 are people who's first star Trek is Voyager

Back Flip Bet

I lost a few seconds in part 2, but agree with you overall

Back Flip Bet

Also there was a rights issue and residuals issue.

startrekiborg

Yes, but that relationship was logical. ;

Vexx

I dont know if its an option for you but I have paramount plus through prime and I haven't had any issues?

Matchstick Jose

Like DS9, Voyager actually filmed 20 hours for Season 1 (the pilot plus 18 episodes). And then, for reasons I do not recall, they ended up holding four episodes to air as part of Season 2 instead, which is why there are only 16 hours in Season 1. So, the early part of Season 2 actually contains four episodes mixed in that are technically Season 1 episodes. It’s weird.

Forbidden Donut

Also, added to the glossary of names pronounced wrongly: "Jakota" aka Chakotay

Some Guy

That might be my new official name for him, Voyager's Dorf.

Regan

And if you download the torrents, there are versions available which people have unscaled using AI.

tyranusfan

When Voyager first came out, Starlog magazine made the direct comparison between Voyager and Battlestar Galactica, even printed side by side photos where, from a certain angle, Voyager kinda resembles Galactica.

Tyler Carver

DS9 = The GOAT TNG = Most rewatchable VOY = Comfort food

startrekiborg

He was also the Swamp Witch in Legend

Brendon Waldron

Interesting, I've never made the BSG connections, I always likened it to Star Trek's take on Lost In Space.

Matthew Rudolph

Potentially useless lore dump. Think of the galaxy as pie cut equally into 4 pieces, the top left is the Gamma quadrant, the top right is the Delta quadrant, the bottom left is the Alpha quadrant and the bottom right is the Beta quadrant. Earth borders both the Alpha and Beta half way down the between the two pieces.

TalynOne

omg, I should have scrolled further back, you echoed my exact same opinions. I called him Jar Jar Neelix Epstein and mentioned the dumb H20 being scarcity for a warp capable species (Temu Klingons). IMO the best thing about Voyager is it distracted Berman/Braga enough to not bother the DS9 writers from doing their thing.

Vina

"Why are we giving up going home for the Ocampa? They only live 9 years. Even dogs live longer than that!" - imagining a callous crew member

Prof Moff

Voyager Sex scoreboard? Ummm not sure. We at the sex scoreboard are not sure is Voyager full of sex crazed crew and guest stars or not. Do we have a Kirk or a Riker and Trio? Seems like a “maybe”. That Paris guy seems like a slut or wannabe but maybe not. Janeway looks like a scorer if she wants to, I mean come on… she already has had more game then Picard without even trying. We are not sure. DS9 does not give the vibe of freeeee-fuckin’-fun-times. But 70,000 light years away…just sayin that is a long without being a voyeur-(ager). We are just not that familiar with the series but let’s have a board or a bed board even. FIRST BOARD - no scores We can’t really say we have any evidence quite yet of boppin during the ep. All crew - 0 As always if you disagree please reply with your argument for or against. For anyone new to the sex scoreboard, I am sorry you have no play (kiddin'). The rules are straight forward. A notch on the bed post counts only once per pairing; must be inferred as happening during the ep (hence why Kez and Neelix are implying some previous banging but not counting this ep as the first.) The inferred is subjective. We do give a lot of "it coulda probably woulda" counts. We absolutely DO NOT PREVIEW future shaggin'. No one cares that you know what happens in the future for this board NO SPOILERS. Even if you know we count one or don't based on future episodes keep it to yourself. Part of the fun is correcting wrong calls a few eps later on so don't spoil it. If based on the ep you think we should have (or not) gave a wompa-wompa-wingo then reply and make your case. Many time on past shows we have revised the call BUT it must be a solid reason based on that ep or info from that ep that changes a past call. Finally, this is supposed to be light hearted, stupid fun for morons like the sex scoreboard.

Yannik M.

Ok. I am in Germany...

Walt Vita

Great reaction.. so many ties to DS9 and TNG.. Tim Russ also played the klingon in ds9 invasive procedures

Walt Vita

Tam elbrun..a full betazoid..from Tin man ..tng.. was a starfleet consultant.. observer if you will

Walt Vita

Listening to the discussion now.. and that red thing behind your head looks like a pretty red bow in your hair lol.. fix that haha..2:01:07

Walt Vita

Finished the full reaction. . Were there any trepidations about a woman captain for either of you two?? .. controversial at the time but Kate Mulgrew kicked ass lol

Summer

That is about it, Voyager was my first Trek love but I go back to TNG often, and DS9 is just great

Summer

Because my stepdad loves Voyager I made it his ringtone so I have to be certain what I am hearing

Summer

I left a take about Kes, the writers wanted a species like humanoid mayflies, living a very short time, sounds awesome when you write it down but often transferring great ideas to the screen is problematic

Goddess of Empathy

I think Janeway's decision is made a little bit easier because of the Kazon. Tuvok said it would have taken a few hours to set the array up and that was before the Kazon ship crashed into it, more Kazon ships were coming so they would have had to fight off the Kazon for hours before they would be able to maybe use the array.

Summer

So I watched some TOS and TNG as a child, (1980’s early 90’s) for us it was more ‘oh Trek is on, lets watch it’, not severe fans but I did remember large portions of 40-60 TNG episodes and the Voyage home. In my early twenties my stepdad watched Enterprise so I watched it with him. Then I found Voyager a couple years later and fell in love, I got the DVDs and watched it several times before reconnecting with TNG also through DVDs, then a few years later DS9, so I had no one telling me how this universe worked, by the time I got back to TNG and then DS9 I might have accepted enough of the Trek universe that most things people wonder watching TOS and TNG the first time never occurred to me. There is a lot about the Trek universe I just agreed to accept when choosing to watch, but crucially, no one told me details, I watched through multiple times before people on line started telling me anything about behind the scenes, or any names of anything in the future, or what to think of episodes or people or seasons before viewing, or how warp drive works, or anything else. If some of you didn’t have that, I am sorry. Lets give that to Josh and Alex as much as we can. (There are things I knew about DS9 before I got there which is bittersweet).

Philbot

I feel like this is still the strongest pilot! I love all the TOS “pilots” but one never aired the other aired out of order and Where no Man has gone before was almost completely retconned. Spock , Kirk and Scotty were the only remaining characters. Sulu changed jobs. Modern Trek is very cinematic with Paramount + ‘s budget but have story problems.

Philbot

Yea but since they have to be adults by like 1? Their minds would need to mature faster so you don’t look 20 like goo goo gah gah 😫

Philbot

I noticed in rewatch I like how empathetic she is, great performance! You can see the wheels turning behind her eyes..

Philbot

Neelix played a Ferengi in Ménage a Troi. He was like a twisted Ferengi version of Bones.

Summer

Agreed, better on paper

Sanchi

I can't wait to see you guys enjoy more episodes with Tovok, Jakota and of course our lovable Kempa

Philbot

Before Netflix did a new Lost in Space. I thought Star Trek should buy it and work it into trek continuity.

Philbot

I jokingly call him Taco tray

Marko

I also think DS9 is the objectively best written series, but I like TNG and ENT more. And I have to acknowledge the brilliance of DS9 regardless of my personal preferences. Sometimes it coincides with objectively the best content, sometimes it doesn't. But it doesn't make it any less valid if it doesn't. But also, I think it's important to say that one's personal preference is never an objective measure of quality.

Wizardling

Loved that video of Alex pitching Voyager a year ago :-D

Summer

Should have sent your parents the gift Harry. Chakotay has a crew but it is small enough to fill in those who died on Voyager in this beginning. Any time there is an odd unexplained camera shot I suspect a deleted scene we no longer can look up

Sam Langanke

I find it interesting you didn't even mention that we now have a black Vulcan. You have no idea how much of a fuzz that was and how many 'enlightened' fans tried to disguise their racism with 'but the TOS canon'.

Daragh Graham

I was watching along with the 2 part version on Paramount+ here in Ireland. It was totally out of sync with the version the guys watched. Full scenes were in different places in mine. Hope lfully it will all resolve itself when they move to 1 hour episodes.

Nathan Olson

I've been waiting for two years. Enjoy the pinnacle of Star Trek

TC Green

As far as pilots go I think this is best one you have seen. It does a good job introducing all the characters and setting up premise of the show.

Travis Boyle

They might be watching the DVD version

Ca$hWednesday

Solid pilot. I still wish we could have spent at least a few episodes with the crews before merging them. Seems like a missed opportunity

Lotan

which version is been watched as it is impossible to sync up with the one on paramount+

PunchFace

Any evidence to back this up?

Chris M

I always find the happy sedate theme funny given that they lost a load of the crew and are stuck 70k ly from home.

Strekonline.com

Chevy Tahoe - That's a broad assumption that's incorrect with me and likely many others. I sampled TNG and DS9 before Voyager but Voyager is my favorite. Actually, it was the film First Contact that first sparked my interest in the franchise (similarly it’s not my favorite Trek film). Voyager wasn't even available in my market until the summer after First Contact’s release because we didn't have UPN or an affiliate with syndication rights yet. DS9 and reruns of TNG were all I had available until then, plus the preceding films, because I don't recall TOS being available locally at the time either. I loved all of it… but Voyager quickly became my favorite and remains so, despite being the third series I was exposed to. Yes, DS9 is technically better and TNG is deserving of high praise, but I find Voyager the most enjoyable overall. Yes it has some duds, but so do every series. Why is it so unbelievable that someone can love Voyager for reasons other than it being their first? Alex and Josh commented in the video about the trepidation of Voyager fans - here's an example why.

Loot Narsbaar

I think they were holding back so UPN would have more episodes in 1996 when they had more affiliates. I don’t think my neck of the woods got a UPN affiliate until s4, before then it was on in syndication just like TNG/ DS9

Loot Narsbaar

It’s beyond dumb, but in 95 exoplanets we’re just stating to be discovered. I’m not sure this was known?

Loot Narsbaar

To put it in perspective Voyager's top speed is much much faster than the D, which is way way waaaaaaay faster than the Defiant

Tasha Yar's Positronic Vibrator

Well, I looked. I really did. There's currently no way for me to get the 90 minute version in this country. So that sucks.

TC Green

I use the TNG doorbell for texts. Same issue.

Some Guy

The 30 year old internet archives are full of it, I could link

Nathan Olson

I like beating myself with pain sticks too.

Numinous2019

I'm really tired of the all powerful alien trope in ST by this point. I don't regard pilots as anything more than getting an ST show in motion. So job done in 'Caretaker'.

Matchstick Jose

True Voyager fans do not need to “sync a copy.” They can simply watch Josh and Alex staring at them as they hit play on the 90-minute pilot they have stored in their head.

Forbidden Donut

I'd forgotten about that but now I rememer how wild that was when he first said it lol

Greg Latta

ya... always sucks when we get to a two-part episode. the DVDs (they are using) always have the combined version with no break, different editing and pacing, some completely alternate or omitted scenes all together. and short of buying the whole 'digital' season set, you'll never find it on any streaming, and will never line up.

Evan Guthrie

Wow, that was a lot better than I remember. Definitely a very dense plot, but had a lot of great moments. I give it an A.

Naglfarius

I like Neelix. He brings chaos and fun in the "boring" Federation. Just like Quark in this respect. The Water Tower, the Bubble Bath? So much fun! I also don't understand the hatred towards him, because he dates Kess. You watching a Sci FI Show, where 2 different Species other than Human are engaged, but the only thing you see is the Age difference from our Point of View? Also can someone please deactivate the Doctor? He is still waitng for the Shutdown Protocol! *shaking my Head*

brqby

That sucks, it's not synced as per your post. Wish I could get a partial refund lol.

Evan Guthrie

It's not Trek lore. It's Milky Way lore lol

Chris Herbert

The Man Trap is not the pilot. Where No Man Has Gone Before is.

Jonathan Llyr

Since the series ended I’ve watched isolated episodes of VOYAGER but I’ve never done a complete series re-watch so this should be very interesting. I remember enjoying the pilot but not being blown away by it so I’m actually pleased the guys enjoyed it more than I did. Made for a pleasant re-watch experience. Enjoy the ride gentlemen, it’s going to be fascinating.

Target Audience

It's only for this first episode. I am jumping ahead to work on this edit now.

Some Guy

I like that we get the whole spectrum of power for aliens from things that are still using ships and hardware that's just more advanced than ours all the way through essentially transcendent gods.

Laura Thornley

Someone has probably already said it, but the reason they rebranded Locarno to Paris is because of some writing credit dispute (most likely the writer had some kind of clause in the contract that they'd get paid each time their character was used again). There are some differences though - Paris actually graduated and was in Starfleet for a while before being kicked out and he actually came forward to admit his mistake (unlike Locarno who had to be narc'ed on by Wesley). Which I prefer, because it makes Tom Paris a redeemable character. Locarno was selfish and manipulative. Tom at least has a conscience and tries to do the right thing - even if he's bitter about how it turned out for him.

Captkirc

Ironically the syncing with DS9 starting with season 3 has been constantly running behind on US Paramount plus but Voyager was perfect

C Mc

the file I torrented was perfectly synched

Cranky Grandma

One of my daughters is just a couple of years older than you. She grew up with DS9 and especially Voyager. She loved Kate Mulgrew as Kathryn Janeway. As an adult she has said “*this* is how you write a strong female character”. It’s very natural, very real. This is a strong pilot. I’m glad you enjoyed it. I love Janeway, but overall I think the doctor is my favorite. But gosh I do love this batch of characters.

AdmiralMurphy

This will be the first time I've watched voyager and ds9 in airdate order so that's exciting for me. I hadn't researched voyager until last year after so long and came out liking the series more than I remembered. It will be fun to compare the shows ds9 and voyager directly as the air alongside and not just watching them straight through.

Skye Maidstone

It's a solid enough pilot. A few pacing issues and it could do with introducing the crew a little better. It better than TNG's but not quite as good as DS9's imo. I personally think A+J aren't going to like large slabs of VOY but who knows. Curious to find out.

Banes

i'm pretty sure Sulu was the pilot

Numinous2019

Mulgrew was an experienced actress by this time. She always had screen presence and projected an energetic intelligence. Her body language suited a captain as well. Definitely spot on casting.

Captkirc

To put it in TNG terms Tapestry is my favorite episode but I think Yeaterday’s Enterprise is the best

David Kirk

My sync with Paramount+ was just fine. Just kept Paramount several secs ahead. Have been doing that with the other two series also.

David Kirk

70,000 not 70,000,000 light years. The galaxy is about double that distance in diameter. 70 Million is many galaxies further away.

Bammer

The original idea for Tom Paris was to have him be Nick Locarno, but the producers believed that Locarno's actions made him irredeemable so the character and background was changed to what Tom Paris is.

Evan Guthrie

I love hearing all your predictions lol

TC Green

One thing you guys should be aware of. The consultant they hired for Native American culture for Chakotay’s character for the show was a conman who was not Native American and not in any way an expert about their cultures. His name was Jakie Marks but he went by Jamake Highwater. He reviewed every episode for “accuracy” on Native American topics.

Philbot

As an adult rewatching Kes reminded me of my ex.

BN13

How did you know how I watch these?

BN13

I never watched TOS. What is the TOS canon here?

Philbot

I tried that once. Not nearly as fun! 🤩 The guys have a lot of quiet reverence. 🥱

Philbot

Every single pilot features a god like entity.. even the cage which never aired.. (kinda) ? The Talasians can do a lot with their minds.

Philbot

Mine synced fine.. I’m always off my a few seconds?

Brandon Blume

I'm very pleased you enjoyed the pilot as much as you did! I really like the setting and synopsis for the show. A much smaller starship compared to the Enterprise having to survive on its own 75 years away from home. It's a great scenario. And I never really thought about it before, but I think I agree that out of TNG, DS9, and Voyager this is the better of the pilots. So looking forward to the journey going forward!

Philbot

Yea but would they just run around in their Maqui outfits? Being matchy matchy seems to make more sense. & They can spend 75 years in the brig.

Philbot

I’ve always thought that! I don’t hate this episode. Possibly the best character building?

V G (Zay)

that's still such a massive bummer. An attempt was made! Intentions were good! And yet....

Lost Monk

Actually, I gotta say... I understand the difference between "the best" and "my favorite." "The best" refers to writing, directing, acting, etc, etc.... that hits everything remarkably... and not just as though checking off boxes. But GENUINELY the best. "My favorite" calls upon elements that are more personal. Something that may not be objectively "perfectly written" but nonetheless resonates for me on a different level. I dislike "S-tier" because it moves beyond the scrutiny of intrinsic quality. The tiers of A, B, C, D, F.... belong to a coherent and congruous spectrum that is interested in quality. S-tier has little, if anything, to do with craft.... because S-tier is mostly designed to touch upon how something makes us feel PERSONALLY, for whatever reason. Those are 2 different agendas and spectrums. They're not compatible. S-tier is not a quality-evaluation tool; it sidesteps and de-prioritizes scrutiny of objective quality (or even subjective impression of quality) in favor of how something makes us feel personally. S-tier should not toss out, dismiss, or be exalted above genuine quality. Nah... as a writer.... I don't agree with the S-tier dismantling the Quality spectrum of tiers A, B, C, D, F. And no—subjective judgment of quality is not the same thing as a fully personalized “how it makes me feel” tier. .... There! I finally said it.

D Jammers

Josh quoting Picard "I'm sure there's more interesting stuff out there...engage" Made me laugh hard. There has to be better stuff than this episode! hahaha

Morgan Garrett

I have read the post which explains why it nearly impossible to watch this alongside you guys but would still ask the following: Is it please possible to show 2-3 seconds of clips at more regular intervals (or at least audio?) so it's easier to keep on top of it? No sure how hard it would be to re-post this but with a little more sync-ability. It would be appreciated by many of us i'm sure :)

Bert

Now that we've finally gotten here, I can tell you something about an episode of TNG that you already watched. Tim Russ played a character in the episode "Starship Mine" where Picard basically has to do the Die Hard thing and take back his ship from terrorists. Tim Russ played one of the terrorists, and notably, Captain Picard takes his character down with a Vulcan neck pinch. Not making that up. I don't think they were already planning to make him a Vulcan in Voyager when they did that. I like the idea that Tuvok exists in a universe that had two different humans who looked exactly like him sans pointy ears. The other is his character in Star Trek Generations on the Enterprise B.

Kleayeth

Decided to watch along with you... can't help but notice how quiet you guys were during it lol. What has been interresting, is that everything is as I remembered it, but the version you are watching has some of the scenes in a different order: remeeting the Caretaker, and Harry and B'Elana waking up were swapped. Also Janeway and Tuvok in her ready room, and meeting Neelix were swapped with Harry & B'Elana finding out about their "illness".

JoeMama47

I always say that Raiders of the Lost Ark is the better movie but The Last Crusade is my favorite Indy film.

Philbot

DS9 aired on a different channel from TNG & VOY, channel 9 in Chicago! Which always seemed odd to me it was just very different at the time I don’t think 9 had much drama programming I mostly watched movies there as a kid.

Numinous2019

ST falls back on this trope to oil the gears of its storytelling, especially in pilot stories. It really seems that the writers can't fill out the runtime of a pilot without resorting to what is effectively magic and which clashes with whatever initial crew characterisation and ship/station setting (more grounded) they are establishing. It feels very much like a formula by this point in time.

Philbot

I feel like season 1 was pretty strong! I never hated it people say it’s very stagnant.? I don’t necessarily hate that if I like the characters.

Matt G Cowart

I watched on Paramount + and it was perfect for me, the entire time. Unlike DS9 which does run "slower" than the DVD, and I need to pause a couple of seconds after each "commercial." Edited to say, I suppose you aren't in the United States where Paramount does broadcast the full episode.

Philbot

I remember being like 14 watching VOY. I hoped they’d integrate the two uniforms like Generations did at like 15 I wrote my own show where I pictured both uniforms..

Philbot

I heard it started with RDM. They liked his performance and said we want someone like RDM. So they eventually got him.

Malamute

My general view. Good Opener. One of the better episodes of the whole series. Now, in general, Voyager is not my favorite of the old Star trek series. I prefer ToS, DS9 and TNG over Voyager. But there are alot of good episodes in Voyager and i am sure you will enjoy alot of it.

Philbot

British shows recast which might’ve been interesting but I love Lein now! On rewatch.. She reminds me of my ex. 👧

Philbot

1 in season 1?

David Kirk

My experience so far watching along using Paramount+ for TNG, DS9 and this pilot: Start out in sync with TA then move to about 5 seconds ahead on Paramount. It is then in almost perfect sync the rest of the show.

Lost Monk

Yes, when you pitched voyager many months ago, as what you thought DS9 might be. I remember smiling, and praying that no one would spoil Voyager for you at that point.

Malamute

Yea, it was really rough on Usenet and such back then. The grognards were somewhat vicious against the 'wokeness' of it even though the term wasnt used in that way then. Female captain was bad. Black Vulcan bad. Chakotay is pandering to the Native American focus of that era. etc. blah blah blah. So to pander to those 'grognards' they bring in a future character to appeal to those sorts. Of course no spoilers here. But we all know which character i speak of. lol. But unfortunately, there were plenty of the "anti woke" types back then.

Philbot

I joke that poor Tuvok was undercover and Picard nearly got him killed. I’m assuming Picard didn’t just leave that guy to die? Shot him out in a life pod? 🤷‍♂️ also undercover in Generations 😂

David Kirk

My prediction for Episode 3: You guys are going to love it.

Philbot

Geez my local station was like 7pm

Philbot

Meg Mucklebones

jon bolton

I'm glad you both enjoyed. You have now met my favourite Doctor, and favourite Klingon. Regarding Alex predicting the plot of Voyager in the DS9 discussion, that made me laugh at the time. I give The Caretaker B.

Philbot

Vaughn Armstrong is prolific!

Philbot

Worst coast Klingons

Philbot

Yea but they’re aliens Neelix probably met a hot girl and was like hey! Then later was like “Your people only live how long? So you are 9?….. 😟

Matthew Rudolph

Valid point, I don’t think voyager could fight off the Kazon reinforcements. Let alone if they attempted to board the array in hand to hand combat.

MrTickleTrunk

I forgot how good this pilot actually was. Actually looking forward to rewatching this show now with you guys.

Kino Bambeano

For anybody who wants to stream this episode to sync up, Amazon Prime Video has the exact version they're watching, you just have to purchase it for two bucks.

KevinH

For me, Voyager is the comfort food Trek show. Not that it doesn't have its dark or emotional moments, but more so than TOS, TNG, or DS9, it's the one where you can just sit back, kick up your feet, and enjoy a fun hour of Star Trek.

SierraNicole

Sci-Fi has a record of strong female characters but Janeway is top of the top for me. They did everything right with her and Kate Mulgrew was the right choice. She was just a phenomenal example of what female leadership looks like - collaborative, service-oriented, compassionate, careful, pragmatic, firm and decisive when called for, protective, diplomatic, utilitarian...they allowed her to be a strong, smart, moral, reliable, and, when need be, ruthless Captain without denying her vulnerability, kindness, warmth, and femininity. And just as importantly, her leadership was strong on its own and not just in comparison to diminished male characters around her. The men of Voyager are also strong, smart, wise, competent, reliable, etc. But there's no hesitation or question among them of Janeway's capabilities or authority. No attempt to usurp or condescend her either. For me, it's a very 24th Century type of leadership and command crew dynamic. I can't even explain how inspiring it was to watch Janeway and Voyager as a girl growing up. I'm glad you guys like her so far. :)

Comrade Wireless Caller

There is still an interesting, almost subconscious, kind of link to me from going to a show with a captain with the fictional name of Picard to one with an actor with the actual last name of Picardo. Somehow it just ties the shows various incarnation appropriately together! Perhaps even more so since they are both bald! Although Spock perhaps would say that is perhaps illogical to think of it that way! But as for Janeway I don't mind saying I fell in love with her from the Get Go. She has amazing resemblance, persona, and even vocal similarity, as many have noted to Katherine Hepburn who I was always a big fan of. Which is why, if I'm correct, that they picked her once to even play Hepburn in a bio about her!

Saucy

For us viewers it really isn't a pilot it's episode 3. But a "pilot" used to be the single pitch episode of a tv series to the network. The Cage was TOS' pilot, and was rejected. So Gene pitched a second episode, "Where no Man Has Gone Before". So it is considered the second pilot.

jon bolton

He also played a Klingon in Season 2 of DS9.

Phantom Lake Games

DS9 is my favorite show but VOY feels like family because I really got into the video game Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force and I feel like I actually worked with the crew and we went through hell together. Hahah

Saucy

I put the VOY pilot above TNG and DS9 as well. I did not like Emissary and Farpoint all that much.

Alf810x

Glad you guys enjoyed it! Looking forward to this series!

David Mac Dougall

The streaming version I am watching in UK on Paramount is wildly different to the version Alex and Josh are watching. Whole scenes shifted around and now when my part 2 started I have no idea where we are!

David Mac Dougall

Same here - I have watched "my" version many times and never even considered how it would be if entire scenes are in different places, it was an interesting experience!

ShazD

Oh dear

David Mac Dougall

And the irony is... those same people who are the toxic gatekeeper fans these days saying exactly the same things about Starfleet Academy are harking back to "I remember when Star Trek used to be good, like in Voyager" LOL! How quickly they forget...

Ken R

I watched this a couple of years ago, maybe during when we were up to TNG season 2 or 3. It wasn't bad. not great, not the worst, I would say it is better than Farpoint but somewhere in the same neighborhood as the DS9 one. The inclusion of that kiddie-friendly, mother approved, "funny" alien as a cast member is unfortunate though. I am guessing they feel after Quark that now they have a formula and must include a broadly played alien for comedy relief.

TalynOne

Ocampa live up to 9 years of age, Kes is much younger.

SierraNicole

I hope you'll approach Neelix with an open mind. I like him a lot. He adds a lot of enthusiasm and humanity to the show. You know 24th Century Federation sentiments are evolved. They don't experience the same kind of petty, human drives and experiences we 21st Century humans do. But Neelix comes from a different world, a harsher existence, a scrappier mentality and that's reflected in his character and his choices. So his impulses and emotional reactions are a little less evolved and (not to tell on myself) relatable. I think he's the only character that can have those more base instincts because the rest of the crew are Federation (or we're supposed to expect more from). Look, I'm a lawyer and a Libra so it's in my nature to see and argue things from all perspectives so maybe I'm bending over backward for Neelix in a way that's unrealistic for most viewers. But I really find his optimism and enthusiasm and drive to help and delight really endearing. And I find his flaws quite forgivable. And Ethan Phillips does such a great job of fully realizing the character. One of the worst things you can be in sci-fi is a human in an alien costume. Neelix is an alien. He's entirely believable and adds a lot of dimension to the show. So I hope you won't let all these haters taint your opinion of him before you get to know him on your own. :)

Bert

A TV Guide article from the time of the pilot did indicate that Neelix was intended to be the "breakout character" like the Urkel or Fonzie. Fans at the time pushed back. He was hated much the way Wesley Crusher was.

V G (Zay)

I love what he said about it at a con, he was like "I was telling my friends and family I got a great job, stable employment, but it's the worst character on the show. I'm supposed to be robotic and mechanical and just so BORING. Then during the first episode I got a laugh with 'MEDICAL tricorder' and realized oh! Wait! I can just make him pissy!" XD

Jiri Luza

omg...impossible to sync

David Kirk

I overall liked Voyager a lot but Neelix, the Kazon, the overuse of technobabble and the ship damage never a bother gradually wore down my love.

V G (Zay)

I really love all the characters. There's a bit of finding their feet, but overall these first few episodes do a really good job. For me the Kes-Neelix relationship is one of those where I'm like, "Y'all would be better as friends but I get it, you're trauma bonded or whatever" lol. I think having a perspective of 'delta quadrant natives' is a really valuable thing for the show! B'Elanna and Harry is a fun dynamic, calling each other 'Starfleet' and 'Maquis', and I am SO HAPPY to have a great human-vulcan friendship with Janeway and Tuvok.

David Kirk

I've had to have TNG and DS9 at least 5 seconds ahead on US Paramount + to be in sync and it eventually ended up the same way with this pilot though the pilot started out in total sync without any changes.

David Kirk

The "older" fans are referring to future showings of Neelix. He's fine in this pilot.

MJBull

Ethan Philips, who plays Neelix, once starred in the main cast of the 80s sitcom "Benson"" with Rene Auberjenois.

V G (Zay)

Great comment! A lot of Neelix's more bright or silly mannerisms are a survival mechanism because that's how he's got by. I think it's a good element for the show :)

MJBull

She is the equivalent of 20+ years old for her species. However, the Ocampa's biology is not well thought out.

seven tessipates

you brought up Scott MacDonald as being a trifecta of TNG/DS9/VOY guest spots and while watching i blurted out GUL EVEK as Richard Poe also satisfies that, but then i realized- as mentioned across various previous comments below-- Tim Russ has had a TNG, DS9, film, and now VOY appearance putting him in the lead!!

Molly Campbell

Speaking of Kate Mulgrew, fun fact, in 2002, her husband, Tim Hagan ran for governor of Ohio. I was so disappointed he lost because how fun would that have been to have Captain Janeway as the first lady of Ohio?

M.A. Moreno

This all could have been resolved if Janeway had threatened to use corbomite against the Kazon.

Philbot

Jabin was the orange dick hole from Superman 3!👨🏼‍🦰

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Voyager has such a perfect premise On setup alone, the title of ST GOAT is theirs to lose! The characters are already settled, interesting, and the premise is WIDE open while still making use of endless canon to draw from. In completely virgin territory they could do anything, tell any story!

apoc9

I have to say watching the episode after long time I enjoyed it a lot.

reactive1

I’m thrilled that we’ve finally made it to Voyager. I missed a lot of episodes when they first aired due to the nearest UPN station was barely in reception range where I lived and that was if the weather was good. After I got the DVD set, I did watch some that I missed, but there’s still a few dozen episodes that I haven’t seen.

reactive1

“Invasive Procedures”

BN13

If you read the general chat, someone figured out how to sync the scenes.

reactive1

Correct, they are basically as far away from the Federation as they can be and still be in the same galaxy.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Listen, you can 1 for 1 slot in Nick Lacarno as Tom Paris and it never doesn't work. That's not really a spoiler, just a permission; you won't get burned deciding to treat them as the same, so feel free if you like. Many of us do the same.

reactive1

Voyager is like TOS in that the airdate order of the shows varies quite a bit from the production order.

Phantom Lake Games

That was my first “modern” game with a strong narrative and proper 3d graphics. It sucked me in and I was all like “omg I’m really in a Star Trek episode! It looks so real!”

MrTickleTrunk

Thank you Alex for manifesting Voyager <3 MOTHER FUCKER!

Some Guy

That era had so many amazing star trek games. Armada, Elite Force, Bridge Commander, Away Team...

reactive1

100% correct. Voyager is out on the outer edge of the Delta Quadrant, literally as far from the Federation as can get in the galaxy.

reactive1

Yes, and what makes it even weirder is we don’t even see those in production order. The same thing happened at the end of Season 2 and beginning of Season 3.

Jon1701

Jesus fucking Christ. The most annoying experience of my life. Bought the DVD, spent 20 mins trying to get it to output to 4:3, then realised my PAL copy won’t sync up with the boys version. Then I watched it on paramount plus which looked like it was filmed on cigarette papers dipped in piss on my Sky Q, then I watched it on the native Prime Video app on my TV and the picture weirdly fades in and out and now the scenes are out of order. I give up. Paramount you bastards!

lowkee120

In regards to "manifesting" Voyager when predicting what DS9 would be like, it is eerie how much you both actually predict things that end up happening. And we can only sit here and smile say, we can't talk about it, but just wait LOL. On that note, I was worried what you both thought about this show, and I'm glad you enjoyed it, and agree with your rankings for series premieres. This is my second favorite next to DS9 which is my favorite show. Thanks for releasing this one early, guys, though it sucks to have to wait a week until the next episode, i'll be here when you do.

reactive1

That would be the best line ever…

lowkee120

That's weird, I watch the Paramount+ version and it seemed to work fine. I have huge problems with the DS9 episodes though.

Molly Campbell

They divorced in 2014, so she's not here anymore. I assume he's in Cleveland since he started out as a Cuyahoga County commissioner, but I'm not sure.

lowkee120

Not sure what would have made Lacarno less irredeemable, a character whose actions cost one person their life as opposed to Tom a character whose actions cost 3 people their lives. But I think the bigger factor was that they would have to have given credit and royalties to TNG writers.

Jiri Luza

If you are in US it should be ok. Uk version is cut differently tho

Paul

Best pilot, absolutely. Janeway has complete command aura from the first second you see her. Can't wait for the journey home with you guys!

Lovok

Very good pilot; great reaction! My pilot rankings thus far are: Emissary, Caretaker, Man Trap, Farpoint. This is one of the better pilot eps of the Trek shows. I'm the opposite of the guys regarding Man Trap: good ep, sure, but it's not a proper Pilot. They don't like Pilots; I do! Glad you guys enjoyed this one though.

DthDisguise

"Have they all been beaten into submission to make them say it isn't the best, but it's their favorite?" Yes, yes they have. So many Star Trek "fans" used to hate Voyager for DARING to have a woman as captain. It was all you'd hear about the series for DECADES.

Breakingthenotion

Fun fact: They had to reshoot a few scenes of the pilot because the network didn’t like the way Janeway had her hair.

Goddess of Empathy

Depends on how much they had and how many Kazon ships were coming

Patric Flück

AFAIK they just didn’t want to pay residuals to the writers of the Locarno character, so they just renamed him and changed his backstory a little.

Jeff Cornell

Plenty of people might say Tom Paris should have just been Nick Locarno, since it's the same actor and they have such similar stories, but I'll go one step further. If we had Locarno instead of Paris, then we should also have Wesley Crusher instead of Harry Kim. The timing works for Wesley to have just graduated from the academy, and his history with Locarno would add more depth to the mini-story of Kim deciding to be Paris's friend despite his reputation. Plus, it puts some familiar faces on the "we all have loved ones back home" aspect of things.

rear adm. crackbiscuit

Can't say much about the story here, but Elite Force multiplayer is fun. Hand-held photon torpedo in deathmatch!

Sam Langanke

@bn13: All Vulcans look like Spock. They have to have green blood but not dark skin.

Kekkersboy and Kekkerstime

one hillarious thing is this is the last Star trek series with cast members from Roots. Every Startrek series from TNG to Voyager had a portion of it's cast come from the Roots Miniseries

Shawn Indigo

I love star trek for many reason and one for sure is deep space mysterious exploration. I remember learning the premise of Voyager and I was not disappointed!

Jon Miller

Such a contrast to last time. TA is not a fun watch when it's two hours of people grumpily shitting on something you like, but here it was three hours of thoughtful, constructive and fresh reaction and a really good time. Glad they enjoyed it.

Avaria

Well, here we are. I live on DS9, but I think I actually prefer Voyager to TNG, if I had to pick one of the space-faring series. There will be highs, there will be lows; there will be times to gobble down the popcorn, times to stare slack-jawed with the popcorn part way up, and times to throw it emotionally at the screen. While I think that's true of all the series, Voyager has a certain element to it that probably hasn't been as prominent in any series since TOS -- I wonder if you'll pick up on it. The Voyager is definitely my favorite of all the hero ships. I think the Intrepid class is beautiful. Very sleek, good layout, well appointed. It's a nice ship. Some fun facts: Tom Paris was conceived as a Nick Locarno/Robert Duncan McNeil type. And, while Robert Duncan McNeil did audition for the part early on, he was initially rejected because he had grown a beard in the interim, and they weren't sure he'd be willing to shave it off. When they struggled to find a good fit, they eventually called him back and he was more than happy to shave for the part. While Tim Russ was an acting student in Texas he served as understudy to the artist in residence during a performance at his college's theater. The artist in residence? Mr. Leonard Nimoy. Robert Picardo initially auditioned to be Neelix. He's said that, at first read, the Doctor was the absolute last character he'd wanted to play, since he couldn't see how to inject any personality into a computer program. In January of 1995, Garrett Wang (pronounced Wong) was the only Asian main on U.S. network television in a leading dramatic role ("leading" in this sense being defined as a named character credited as part of the man cast, since VOY is an ensemble). Russell Wong was the only other one, but his series, "Vanishing Son" (kind of a hybrid of Kung-Fu and The Fugitive), which also premiered in January 1995, was only airing in first-run syndication. In 1997, Garrett Wang is named one of the "50 Most Beautiful People" by People magazine (#18, apparently, so not too shabby).

Ryan K

Something I noticed for the first time, at around 1 hour, 4 minutes in, at the end of the scene when Kes tells off Toscat and says "Come with me, we'll find your people." as the crew turns to leave the scene, two extras in Ocampan clothes turn and leave with them as if they're part of the crew lol.

Tim Nikiforovs

@Sam Langanke Voyager is about 3x as large as the TOS Constitution class. Yes it has 6 fewer decks, but if you get rid of the neck as Voyager does, you have about the same. The Intrepid class is about 50m longer, and more to the point, has a much bulkier build. There's a website that modeled out the internal volume of various Star Trek and Star Wars ships based on known dimensions. The TOS Connie came in at a volume of 211,000 cubic metres. The Intrepid came in at about 626,000 cubic metres. 140 crew does seem pretty low considering Voyager is about the size of a modern super carrier with crews of several thousand. But then again, 1000 people on a Galaxy class means it's virtually deserted.

Mark Wood

The reason the change was (unlike DS9 or TNG) VOY was trying to support a network, with very limited initial programming. So to help the networks overall adoption. It was felt start the next season early. Giving a few weeks of episodes (for the full network) to air against a weaker network schedule of reruns. Perhaps you would grab some eyeballs and keep them (this is something FOX also did back in when they were fairly new, as well as UPN direct competition the WB). In practice, didn't really help that much. But that was the idea. And even the cut short season (holding over for the next season) gave us more than what is typical. It's actually typical back at this period if you were a mid season show to usually only get 13 episodes. If you were lucky a tops of 15. And that's for shows with short post production windows, which Trek wasn't. As to why not just air the full 20 hours and still start early? Two big reasons. It would require bringing cast and crew back earlier than typical, but outside post production personnel would have been killed.

Gary Evans

Same, its all over the show on paramount. Irritating

Mark Wood

You have to consider when TNG came out (as well as DS9) there were a lot more unaffiliated local stations. But by the time Voyager came out, not only was their a larger number of scripted syndication shows, but you now had two nettles (The WB and of course UPN) that now consumed typical primetime hours. Voyager was still sold into syndication for areas that didn't have a legitimate UPN affiliate, But that meant in many cases its on in really odd places.

Tim Nikiforovs

There's one in cryo storage down in cargo bay 3 for contingencies like this. You can't escape them

ImageMaker

Watched your reaction without watching the show at the same time, it was a strange experience. Atleast I knew most of the time what was going on from knowing the episode well enough. Very pleasant suprise to see TA react to my comment. I saw TOS,TNG,DS9,VOY, & ENT all before being apart of the online trek community. Voyager fans have honestly been beaten down by how much the online trek community craps on it. Glad if even for 1 episode you guys enjoyed it.

Tim Nikiforovs

Realistically, with 2 suns, most vulcans should be black

Razski .

This. This is what I've been waiting for. I personally rank this show above TNG. It has some of my all time favourites of characters, stories, just everything. Chefs kiss

Chris Herbert

in the UK we got Where No Man Has Gone Before as our first episode.

Philbot

Kes friends were going to help?

Mark Chrisco

They tried their best to have Ro Laren on that Maquis ship.

Philbot

Bit of a plot hole.. Harry and B’Elanna’s disease is never mentioned again I guess the doctor just easily cured it?

Mark Chrisco

Kolbe nearly married her as well.

Lovok

Regarding "best" vs "favorite," that's a distinction I've always enjoyed. Something might not be the best quality (e.g. has many obvious faults and inconsistencies), but it just hits you in a special way. Similar to how the guys use S grades. For me, DS9 is the best Trek show, but TNG is still my favorite by just a little bit. TNG is where I'd actually want to "be" in this universe, with that crew on that ship. DS9 is NOT where I'd want to be in that universe, but it's an incredible, unbeatable watch on the outside.

Philbot

I used to love Vanishing Son! I couldn’t remember the name of the show.. if I’m remembering right it premiered as a mini series tv movie? Then became a regular show after Jon wag’s brother died?

Mark Chrisco

He is a favorite actor of producer Rick Berman.

TalynOne

For sure Behr and Berman had very different views of what DS9 should be. Berman wanted the entire Dominion arc to be two episodes if that gives you some idea in the differences between the two. Braga was the same, I could share stories from Ron Moore, but they would be semi spoilers at this point.

Philbot

Idk what was going on with Will’s career then but he left TNG at what you could call the “height” of his career. I think if he hadn’t left they’d have found a way around him going to the academy.

Philbot

I like her hair better now then back in the day, but it’s a big bun

Some Guy

Has no one mentioned that the turning warp engines are to get around the warp five limit?

Mark Chrisco

Interesting. Voyager was designed to resemble a cobra.

Mark Chrisco

When Robert Duncan MCNeill read for the role he looked up after a few lines and said this is Nick Locarno!

Matt Everkoul

When you guys learned the original conn officer was Betazoid, you may have understandably missed a few details about the ship itself, from her exposition dump as she was talking, so here we go: 1. Voyager is a small science vessel, Intrepid-Class. 2. Its crew complement is around 120 or so, no families. In comparison, the Enterprise D had 10x as many people, around 1,000+. Chakotay’s Maquis ship had a crew of around 30-35, so this combined/mixed crew is mainly Starfleet and 3. the Voyager ship is “alive” - it uses bio-neural gel packs for circuitry.

Loot Narsbaar

Sorry but Wes ain’t in People’s 100 most beautiful people

Target Audience

I believe that is when we were talking about the Nick Lacarno/Tom Paris thing so we missed it, but luckily the BRIDGE CREW filled us in

Derek Hagen

The footage of Genevieve Bujold's scenes as Janeway is online and the difference between her and Kate Mulgrew is wild. It's definitely worth watching and reacting to, just a matter of if you want more time to get to know Mulgrew's Janeway first before doing it.

Loot Narsbaar

The probably had to give room for Generations to premiere as well

Loot Narsbaar

The idea of Braga writing DS9 is so hilariously wrong I don’t know where to start

Brian Clark

I recommend them watching the episode she was in on murder she wrote john D lance was also in one i believe

Matt Everkoul

Don’t forget Morn as well! Morn, Gul Evel, and Quark have all played the same character across 3 different Trek series. (TNG, DS9, & VOY)

Jason Aud

The first officer Cavit was killed when the ship got tossed, the one that gave Paris the cold shoulder on the bridge. DS9 is probably my the best Trek series weighed with TNG but I think Voyager had the better Pilot and early seasons compared to the other two. I like Voyager though and the one I probably most turn on for casual viewing. Picardo/The Doctor might be my favorite character and got to meet him once but didn't know if there was enough in the Pilot for that to show yet haha, glad you enjoyed what there was and the episode itself! Two Treks again! As far as that tough choice, the needs of the many...outweigh the needs of the few haha and the Kazon are a warp capable people so not so much an issue.

Jason Aud

I've seen those scenes and I am so glad we got Mulgrew, I think she really nailed Janeway right from the start.

Jason Aud

Haha I wanted to comment previously that they do "kinda" address or get around the limit with this new design but didn't want to bring up anything Voyager until they were in it. Your comment just reminded me haha "variable geometry warp nacelles", I was curious if they would comment on that lol.

Avaria

That's the one

Eric Wilson

Favorite just does mean best. You will understand later with DS9 and Voyager, it becomes hard to say Voyager is the best but it has really really good and really really bad episodes. Lol

Knights Who Say Sledge

I am so stoked to get to ride along while y'all take this journey with the Voyager crew.

Jack Mingle

Apparently that isn't actually what happened, but more that Nick wasn't a redeemable character in how he acted in trying to convince everyone to lie to protect him rather than own up. Despite appearing similar at first glance (lol) Nick and Tom are shown in this episode to be quite different, Tom really is a softy and cares for his fellow man over himself.

Jack Mingle

I think they just decide that Kes is right here and want to help. She basically just stood up against the person of power and commanded people to follow her.

Philbot

It’s difficult to rank characters when you love them all! Like I wouldn’t bad mouth Dr. C but I feel like she wasn’t given much overall..

Jack Mingle

I like how this episode establishes that Tom isn't Nick, especially for people who recognize the actor. Nick is selfish, for real, he tells people to lie to protect himself. Tom on the other hand merely plays into that role, but that is just an act, he has a lot of guilt, he isn't a spoiled kid of some powerful man. He cares for Harry and even risks his own life for Chakotay who dislikes him because of his image. Truly Tom is more admirable in spite of his failure and mistakes than Nick.

Knights Who Say Sledge

Wil has since shared he had been forced to act by his parents and he just wanted out when he felt he could get out.

Lyric

I’m glad you guys like the pilot. Honestly it’s the best pilot out of the 3 24th century shows

Mark Chrisco

Neither is Chakotay's broken leg.

Lyric

What I love about Voyager is that you to start fresh with new aliens, ships and ways to get home. Delta quadrant unexplored but theirs only one alien race and we all know who they are.

Lyric

I know what your talking about and I like her short hair it ain’t no spoiler because she’s on the box

Lyric

I love Janeway especially in season 4

Nolan

Yeah, I think people should own and appreciatd liking trash. The Fast and the Furious movies are garbage, but boy do I enjoy watching that trash.

Loot Narsbaar

TA is going to have Voyager DVDs flying off the shelves

Loot Narsbaar

a cat can give birth at 6 months

Lyric

Okay neelix is not a jar jar binks I like neelix and he will make a fine addition to the crew it’s Kes I think is useless.

Loot Narsbaar

It warms my heart the kids are still saying "Eiffel Tower"

Sunny

Set course for home! Was nice to see Josh and Alex enjoy it. Also, thank you “Josh” for pointing out your names on the screen in a prior video. I usually try to write around your names because I get mixed up and am apparently more unobservant than I realized.

Mark Wood

The Maquis (concept) was created in development of Voyager (these shows often takes up to 1 to 2 years in development, before production) so they have time. The episodes Journey End, and the Maquis I & II were created to put those concepts in the universe, and they worked in the Cal Hudson / Sisko story for the meat of the DS9 episode, and they eventually tied Journey's End Maquis story in to a Wesley storyline. They even given a line drop to Chakotay (not by name but by his rank of a Starfleet person who joins up). The rest of the Maquis episodes are just the writers of their show, seeing what else they can get out of this "concept" within their series that they can create stories from.

parz1fa11

I absolutely love this series. While I've been following the YT since around the midpoint of TNG and as much as I like DS9. This was the series I was looking forward you to get to. Voyager has it highs , it has its lows, it even has its memes but most importantly it's a journey. I joined the patreon just to see you guys start the voyage across the Delta.

Loot Narsbaar

There was no TV during the summer because school was out and families could afford to go on vacation. Back in the olden days if you missed an episode and your recording got fucked because your affiliate was too snowy or you mistakenly set the VCR for 5:00 AM it was just fuckin gone and you'd never see it again for years.

Mark Wood

There are differences between Nick and Tom. Nick does something forbidden, to achieve fame and glory. It gets one of his crew killed, and he lies and convinces others to lie (placing blame on the victim to less). Once Wesley , comes fourth with the truth, he does a good thing and takes responsibility for it. Tom in the course of a mission has an accident that kills someone. He initially falsifies records. But he himself chooses to come clean. Nick sets up the situation that kills a cadet, he than organizes a conspiracy to hide it, and to place blame on the victims hat died. The only real similarity is that they both individually lie about what happens. Everything else, Tom is the better person. But yes, the producers liked what RDM did with the character of Nick in the First Duty (they often remember guest actors that impress them, that they feel they can work with to create a larger character). Its why the producers were pushing so hard for the actress that played Leah Brahms to be the Captain on this show (the studio kept killing that casting). Since they weren't going to pay rights for 174 episodes to an outside writer, they crafted a character that is similar on appearances, but fundamentally different. While that sounds petty you need to remember that while the cost of an episode is between 1.8 to 2.3 million at the time. Most of that is fixed costs. Not the unique costs to make one episode. That is closer to 150 to 250 thousand. Meaning paying a rights fee, would have an impact on every single episode. Basically adding up to to equal the unique cost to make a full episode each and every season.

Derek Locke

It bodes well for you that you like Janeway so much from this first episode. She's great!

Loot Narsbaar

Originally the plan was there was supposed to be more conflict between the Maquis and Starfleet in the pilot. They Maquis weren't supposed to be in uniform by the end. Somewhere along the line the writers were ordered to change it. The DS9 writers were very annoyed because they spent all that time breaking the Maquis for basically nothing. I like Josh's head cannon as to why everyone is in uniform by the time the pilot wraps.

Mark Wood

Just so you know they studio/ Network not to mention even the writers struggled all the time, with the character of Janeway. When Janeway is down on the planet she was originally filmed having her hair in a different style (like how people can have their hair down and up in the same day). Studio or Network hated it. Thought it would be distracting to the audience. So they had to go back to that location Weeks later, and do reshoots. Spending a. couple million in the process. Outside of Kirk's death in generation, it was to this point the most expensive reshoot they did for Trek. Not because the scene was flat or didn't work. But because they didn't want her hair to distract the audience.........Now try and get the studio to pay for an extra day to shoot an episode, to make it great. Hah, good luck.....

Doctor Pulaski

This makes more sense. The constitution’s interior felt cramped compared to voyager. Also I’d imagine superior automation and replicators eliminate the need for much of that crew count

Lyric

Can’t stand execs her wouldn’t of been distracting and it’s how she has her hair now it’s not a spoiler because it’s on the dvd box set

Derek Locke

Neelix gets unfair heat rom a lot of fans for some reason. Jar Jar Binks of Star Trek? Absolutely not.

Derek Locke

Looking back, it would have been ballsy to keep the original crew into the first season. Imagine getting attached to them only for them to be killed off and replaced over time... Could have been good!

Derek Locke

I think I understand the whole, "not the best, but my favorite" thing. I can look at DS9 and consider it "the best" as far as character depth, story and quality. I can still look at Voyager and say, it was more fun to watch. Kinda like saying the first Rocky movie is the best one critically, but I have more fun watching Rocky 4.

Avaria

It was also when you got to catch up on first run stuff you may have missed. Back in the 20th century, we a little thing called summer reruns, but then along came Lost with its fancy-schmancy deeply serialized storytelling and did away with that. >_<

Boggle

Voyager was the first Trek show that I didn't follow that closely for the majority of its original run. I remember watching the first season, and a little of the second. But then didn't really watch it again until the last few seasons. Well, I'm sure I caught a few episodes of the others, but you get my meaning. I loved the concept, the ship, and the crew. It was my least favorite Trek show for years. That said, I did go back and watch it all the way through a couple of times after that, and it eventually became more of something ranked in the middle of all of the classic shows. Ahead of TOS and Enterprise, at least. Can't really say why without spoilers, so there we are. Caretaker is decent. I liked the forced mix of two different crews and the premise. The Doctor is a great character, and the choice to destroy the Array to save a culture and possibly doom all of them of never seeing home again is a very Starfleet thing to do. And I appreciate that. Janeway is a great Captain. Deservedly on the same level as all of the others. I look forward to watching the series again with all of the folks here.

Boggle

Yeah, you basically had two chances a year to see a TV episode. Unlike you, my family didn't go on a lot of summer vacations that lasted more than a few days, so I managed to catch up on at least some missed episodes during summer reruns. We had a VCR, but only for the main living room TV, so usually my mother was using it most of the prime-time hours. Most of my 90s TV watching was done on a 13-inch tv in my bedroom.

penoyer79

Voyager may not be like DS9 and TNG in terms of being everyones favorite but it does have a very dedicated and enthusiatic subset of die hard fans.

International Man of Leisure

And didja notice that after getting beamed off the planet and getting released from sick bay, B'elanna is back in her Maquis garb and Harry is back in his Starfleet uniform. I guess they found time to replicate new clothes and change whilst getting cured of some alien disease and whilst Chakotay got his leg fixed.

penoyer79

for me this is easily the best pilot of the Star Trek franchise. i know they loved MAN TRAP but they have a different perspective cause it was the first ST episode they ever saw. for me Arena was the first Star Trek ep i ever saw. MAN TRAP is just another episode to me. not great, not bad. as josh says "it's fine"

penoyer79

i havent watched this show since it aired.... i was in my freshmen year of HS when the pilot dropped. and i missed the last couple seasons just because life and i was kinda crazy in my late teens early 20s and wasnt home much watching tv. but ive been wanting to go back and watch this. so im actually pretty excited to take this ride more so than with TNG and DS9 as i know those shows so well... i pretty much just pick the best episodes to rewatch. this i dont remember much of anything.

International Man of Leisure

There are many reasons to hate on Voyager, but Janeway being a woman is NOT one of them. There will be things that pop up that make Voyager "not the best". I'm curious if the guys will come to that conclusion.

Philbot

Harry’s uniform would be easy to replace.. I was thinking maybe Chakotay ran and grabbed her a change of clothes? But then again his legs broken.. that buff guy? Who knows where their clothes went originally? Maybe got left on floor? You’d think Tom would have noticed Harry’s clothes

Some Guy

Don't even try

River Acheron

I binged it once a few years ago. Binged it again about a year ago, will be watching along with the guys, and then that's it for me.

International Man of Leisure

Their...intentions were good, but as a great man has said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

L J

I have been looking forward to this reaction all week and I was SO excited when I saw you released it early! And this didn't disappoint - such a fun reaction to watch as you are introduced to the Voyager characters and their journey. Having watched Voyager when it originally aired, it is like an old friend to me and it's a lot of fun to see someone else discovering it for the first time. It's like getting to rediscover it myself. And I totally laughed out loud when you said you thought the 12 (estimate) people on the bridge at the end were the whole crew...! The whole reaction was encouraging because you were quick to dismiss so many of the issues that many people complain about in this episode (things that I always thought were pretty trivial complaints). If that's your approach for the next seven seasons then I think it's safe to say you're going to really enjoy Voyager! And yes, I think Voyager fans have become somewhat beaten down from having to defend the show so much over the years. For some reason people who dislike Voyager are very vocal about it. The critics are pretty relentless on what they see as being weaknesses of the show. What I like about your approach here is that you like Star Trek and you are just excited for another Star Trek series. I think fans who saw these shows (specifically DS9 and Voyager) when they originally aired saw the two as competing and quickly took sides, feeling like it was necessary to pick a favorite. I like that you guys are showing that it's possible to like both series equally because you like Star Trek. It's going to be hard waiting a full week for the next reaction to come out...!

Todd

Right. Ro refers to a Starfleet instructor who resigned and joined the Maquis in Preemptive Strike. That is meant to be Chakotay.

Nolan

Normalize being able to enjoy trash. I like watching the Fast & Furious movies. They are garbage. My favorite cartoon is STILL ReBoot from the 90s, even though it was the first fully CGI cartoon, meaning the visuals are dated. Luckily the writing holds up. Liking something does not equal it necessarily being good. I think it's good people are embracing that. EDIT: I am NOT saying Voyager is trash. I reserve that for more recent entries. It IS however, my least liked of the first 5 series. All I'm saying is that one's enjoyment of something does not equate to an assessment of quality.

River Acheron

Let's not forget the small role as the clerk in the remake of Cabinet of Doctor Caligari.

River Acheron

And the less said about Gremlins 2 the better. He was good as always, but that movie....E Tier!

River Acheron

Her species lives for 9 years. So it doesn't count whatsoever. She and Neelix are in biologically similar stages of development.

Jack Mingle

it is so bad that even another reactor had been hit with the Voyager Hate wave so hard that their inner circle even hates it, they say the reactor "might watch voyager if there is interest in 2 years" But then actively drive anyone who shows interest in Voyager away through toxic behavior. IYKYK

Todd

Alex was concerned about hooking the trek audience. They had to hook a non-Star Trek audience to help launch UPN. They really had the budget for the first few seasons, but then there were a few budget cuts. You guys have good memories, but I wonder if you will need to go back and react to your reactions. As far as the color of pilots, there has been some variation with Star Trek shows over the years, but headcanon is that those in the Command tract may have to take advanced pilot training since we know Riker was a great pilot and Picard was helmsman on the Stargazer initially. I guess that make sense though that those in Command would need experience being on the bridge and that would be the easiest way to get it.

River Acheron

I said it over and over again. "so bad it's good" is a thing. There's literally a viral YouTube channel about that (GoodBadFlicks) As a horror obsessed freak, I adore cringy bad horror (I love the good too!). The only time it doesn't work is when something is TRYING to be bad on purpose like Sharknado and it's ilk. Or if a movie is boring with nothing to even rag on. (The Innkeepers. I know people like it but UGHHH). Even many (not all but many) diehard Rocky Horror fans that go to shadowcasts every Saturday night for decades admit the movie sucks...that's the POINT. Yet it's batshit insane, a beautiful trainwrck, and 100% NOT boring! "So bad it's good" is absolutely valid and it's why I adore Sub-Rosa, Move Along Home, and titles I can't mention yet. And a fair chunk of Voyager. I may think most of it is bad, but my god it's not boring! I would consider a lot of Voyager, "so bad it's good." When I say it sucks, I mean objectively. But it holds camp value for me, subjectively.

startrekiborg

Yes, we get it. I'm fairly sure that's the reason the script got past the the network's lawyers. Lol

L J

I disagree with your interpretation of how established the Voyager crew was at the start of the episode. All of the other crew (doctor, first officer, helmsman) seem to me to be very established in their positions, not like they are just getting on the ship for the first time. Even the mention of Tuvok being Janeway's chief of security seems to imply that he had been serving under Captain Janeway for some time at this point. Her comment about not knowing the crew well enough could easy be referring to the distance that seems to inevitably exist between a captain and those under their command. I thought she was more lamenting that despite serving with them for some time she still didn't know them as well as she felt like she should. And Janeway certainly didn't act like a captain taking the ship out for the first time. I interpreted the story as being that Janeway and her crew were between missions, maybe having some upgrades done and replacing some personnel (ie Harry as ops officer). Seems that would be pretty standard procedure for a starship. Just my take on it...

L J

Makes sense, but I think all the series have flaws. They all had growing pains. They all had missed opportunities or things that were disappointing because they could have been better. I don't think the flaws in Voyager are any worse than the flaws in the other series. So the question is why are those who say TNG is the best or DS9 is the best overlooking those flaws in that series, but according to you, Voyager fans are acknowledging those flaws?

You there

Don’t worry I’ll stick around on YouTube I just very rarely have the time to set up the watch along for the uncut reaction and then watch the full uncut reaction so I prefer the edited versions.

Tim Nikiforovs

That was never the reason. Most just felt it was an unserious TNG wannabe. Not saying that's a fair assessment, but the majority really didn't care that Janeway was a woman.

Tim Nikiforovs

You forgot choking on their popcorn as they laugh uncontrollably at the absurdity of what they're watching

Tim Nikiforovs

Cavit, Stadi and the original doctor all gave Paris the cold shoulder, and they all wound up dead. Coincidence, or did Paris just wake up first😨

Tim Nikiforovs

Also a helmsman is going to have to know a lot about the ships power/propulsion/deflector systems to do their job, which lends itself well to one day captaining a ship.

Matt Everkoul

Janeway mentions she came up through the ranks in the sciences division, which makes sense, since the Voyager is primarily a science vessel. That also means she likely wore “blue” during the TNG era, in terms of the division she was in, prior to becoming Captain, which is cool to think about. It’s similar to Beverly’s path, before she became a Captain of a medical ship in “All Good Things.”

Strekonline.com

Petty and trivial sums it up well. This thought that someone can only love Voyager because it's either the first Trek series they were exposed to or because "it's so bad it's good" is so insulting. It's okay not to like Voyager but don't discount the possibility others can love it for what it is. They say that like the other Trek series don't have any lows and are faultless, which we all know isn't true. It’s almost as if love for DS9 and Voyager has to be an either or instead of both. What's so interesting is how much those same people will praise TNG when Voyager is mostly the same creative team from TNG from the grips to the writers and producers. Heck, even the sets are mostly redressed TNG sets. One of Voyager’s challenges was that it premiered right when DS9 was going from good to great.

Target Audience

I’m all for guilty pleasures, but I don’t think anyone saying Voyager is their favorite but not the best trek show are meaning that it’s trash

Patric Flück

You are probably right Jack, but that's also the story I would tell people if I didn't want to pay years of residuals to a writer and get away using their character anyway :)

Strekonline.com

The primetime network schedule originated when there was no such thing as VCRs/DVRs and just carried on. People had to watch programming when it aired or miss it. So yes the summers when people were home less didn't make sense to premiere expensive scripted programming. And also, I believe it was Josh who mentioned summer blockbusters were in competition.

Strekonline.com

From what I heard the primary reason they did was to beat the other networks on the fall lineup by having episodes already completed in the can. As a result S2 premiered in August - weeks ahead of most network fall premiers. That's also true for S2/S3 where four episodes shot in S2 aired in S3.

Strekonline.com

That pain really inhibited Voyager's audience potential. Because we never did get UPN in our small market, Voyager wasn't even available at all in my market until the summer leading up to S4 when the ABC affiliate (who was already airing TNG reruns) acquired the rights to the show. It bounced around times a lot, started off Sundays at 10pm, then Saturdays at 10pm, then Saturdays at 6pm. By the end it switched to FOX, Fridays at 9pm. But DS9's local scheduling was even worse. It first aired Saturday mornings after FOX Kids, then on NBC after SNL. Horrific timeslots.

Gary Willig

While I think there are some serious flaws with this pilot, the setup, a ship stranded decades from the edge of the Federation with a crew divided between Starfleet and Maquis, is the strongest initial hook since the original series introduced the 'wagon train to the stars' idea. For most people, their opinion on Voyager stems from how well or how poorly they think the show lived up to this initial premise. Emissary is still by far the best 'pilot' as far as I'm concerned, but I prefer Caretaker to Encounter at Farpoint.

BN13

Phil Ken Sebben's take sums up how a LOT of people feel about Voyager. They don't care about the Okampa or the Kazon, and therefore don't care about the entire second half of this episode. They also think the science, the set up, and Janeway's decision are all incredibly stupid, and they hate Neelix with a passion. I personally do not agree wih any of this. In particular, I completely agree with Janeway's decision, and even if I didn't, I agree that it was the Starfleet decision to make. And I REALLY don't get all of the Neelix hate. People probably hate him worse than Jar Jar Binks, and I don't get it. Yes he's written to be the slightly annoying/Quark character, and the annoying side comes out the most when they play him off of Tuvok like we saw in this episode. But you can tell that's by design just so they can have that opposite dynamic going on. And honestly, I don't think Neelix gets any more annoying than what we've already seen here. He's just a regular character.

Tim Nikiforovs

Alright, finally had time to read through comments and post my own. I was genuinely hoping you'd enjoy Voyager, and I'm glad to see that you did. Guess I was hoping for a more upbeat response to the intro after DS9's got trashed for having such slow pacing, but if I had to choose, I'd rather you be excited about the premise and characters as that's what will actually carry the show. As for Voyager fans being "beaten into submission", yeah there's definitely some of that. As a kid, I never really watched TNG as it aired since my parents didn't get cable until the mid/late 90s, and even then I only had access to reruns, not the new eps. I maybe saw an ep or 2 at my aunt's place but that may also have been reruns. My brother was 11 or so when Voyager started, and he had a friend who recorded much of the first 2 seasons, and toward the end of the 90s my dad had an out of town job and was only home every other weekend, but he would record the new DS9 and Voyager eps so we weren't too far behind at that point. My whole family liked Voyager more or less, but my dad and older brother took plenty of opportunities to point out how superior DS9 was and point out Voyager's flaws. 7/8 year old me watching Voyager loved it, and it edged out TNG as my favourite for a while. Newer, more exciting, younger crew, better space battles, etc... At that age I didn't "get" DS9. It was just fine to me. By the time Voyager ended, my brother and father's criticisms had "peer pressured" me into disliking the show. After my dad died in 2005, I barely watched Trek for the next 12 years. I watched the JJ movies in that time and they were fine for what they were. I also finished BSG around 2011 after falling off in S3 of the original run and liked it enough that DS9 was the first series I went back to for a full rewatch the following year. As an adult, I finally saw why my dad and brother appreciated it. Then from 2017-2020 I rewatched everything from TOS-ENT, and developed a new appreciation for most trek shows, but especially VOY and Enterprise. This series will definitely surprise you at times. It's very experimental in it's stories, sometimes that backfires, but when it works, it WORKS. Being in the Delta Quadrant, there's very little established lore they have to stick to. They can come up with whatever the hell they want and it doesn't affect DS9 or anything else. It's a great sandbox for the writers to play in. Every trek crew has a feeling of family, but it's arguably the strongest on Voyager. Nobody can transfer to another ship, and there are no reinforcements at the next starbase. All they have is each other, and a ton of great character beats come out of that. Speaking of characters, while obviously every character in every series has some growth, I think Voyager gives you the best sense of who the characters are in it's first season. The whole cast mostly comes out swinging. Each captain has a certain quality to them that made them memorable in my eyes. Kirk was arguably something of a sheriff, keeping law and order on the frontier of an untamed federation. Picard was the philosopher and the diplomat, winning battles of intellect and morality in defense of the federation's core principles. Sisko is the ranger, guarding a distant outpost, holding back the storm gathering on the horizon. Janeway doesn't have that bigger picture to worry about. Her only concern as captain is getting her crew home. Janeway is the mother goose, and if you've ever run into geese(especially of the Canadian variety), you know they can be aggressive little bastards, but they're incredibly protective of their kids. I'm not saying Kirk of Picard or Sisko don't feel the loss when one of their crew is killed, but aside from Spock or Tasha or a few other non main character deaths they gave more weight to(The Bonding), it's mostly treated as "unfortunately it comes with the job". Janeway more than any captain is FIERCELY committed to her crew, and that's evident right from the first episode. Whatever criticism people have about Janeway or how she's written, I love her character for that trait alone. Chakotay doesn't get a lot to do in Caretaker, but he does come across as a thoughtful and principled man, and he was backing Janeway up on her decision before she even made him XO, so he's a great pick for first officer. Also he's heavily implied to be the instructor at the academy that Ro referred to in Preemptive Strike. Torres likewise doesn't get too much in the pilot. All we see is she's apparently the engineer on the maquis ship, and she's got one hell of a temper. She says it's her klingon half, but real talk we've met one other half klingon who also had a hell of a temper and a bunch of full klingon women like Grilka and Azetbur who were honestly comparatively mild mannered. With a family name of Torres, she's not just half klingon, she's half latina too. Pretty volatile mixture. She is one of the show's better characters in my book. Neelix as a character is like taking a shower while people are washing dishes with hot water and occasionally flushing the toilet. He can at times be little more than set dressing, at other times be incredibly irritating, and other times be genuinely endearing. Kes as for Caretaker has very little to define her beyond a youthful, rebellious streak. She's kind of just tacked onto Neelix in Caretaker. Kim I really like as a concept. Also cool to see some Korean representation in a Trek cast(Wang is of Taiwanese descent). He's shown to be highly competent from the start, obviously a grade A student and model young officer, but clearly still very green and perhaps a little naive. That he and Tom are basically polar opposites in this regard is what makes Paris taking on a sort of big brother role work so well. It's like Tom sees who he could have been and wants to help Kim get "street smart" while avoiding the mistakes he made. When comparing Paris and Lacarno, people are quick to point to Lacarno being more self centered and unscrupulous, but as Boothby pointed out, there was a reason those cadets were willing to go along with the deception. Paris and Lacarno do have their differences, but that quality of mentorship carried over. The EMH or the Doctor is an interesting concept. He don't see a ton of him here, we just see he works well under pressure and has a somewhat irritable disposition. If there was any question early on as to whether Data was alive or not, then there's even more question in regards to the Doctor. On the one hand, we saw Exocomps and even a colony of nanites acknowledged as alive, not to mention the "ugly bags of mostly water" crystals or essentially cartoons(2d aliens) from The Loss. We have Moriarty as a precedent for a sentient hologram, but presumably while the Doctor is programmed much more thoroughly than an ordinary holodeck character, I doubt starfleet wanted another Moriarty situation. So do we have a main character who is essentially just a bunch of subroutines and nothing more, or can he evolve. Only time will tell. Regardless, Robert Picardo is one of the shows best casting choices. Finally, there's Tuvok, who is honestly probably my favourite Vulcan in the franchise. Spock is great, don't get me wrong, but most Vulcans can come across as somewhat dickish. Tim Russ manages to capture the intelligence and discipline Vulcans are so well known for, while at the same time bringing a subtle warmth to the character. He'll correct people on a million little things like any Vulcan, be to me he never came across as condescending. The ready room scene not only establishes Janeway and Tuvok having a history of close friendship, but we also see Janeway being emotionally weighed down by both those who died and those who are stranded, and simply put being very "Human". Tuvok shows zero judgement of her "human failings". To me it shows that Tuvok understands that Humans and Vulcans and every other species simply play to different strengths, and there's a time and a place for each of their contributions. As for the episode itself, I said in my take that it didn't quite hit the emotional notes of Emissary, and it probably doesn't have anything quite as intense as Sisko confronting his trauma over Jennifer's death, but Caretaker still hits some real emotional highs. Janeway's speech at the end, the ready room scene, Tom wanting to help get Kim back, telling the Caretaker that the Ocampa need to learn to survive on their own, and the scene where Janeway says "we didn't ask to be involved, but we are. We are" all hit for me. Beyond that it's clearly the most exciting of the 3 90 minute premiers thus far, and the production values are excellent for the most part. Rewatching, I think it edges out Emissary for me, which was way ahead of Farpoint. Man Trap to me is just an episode, and always kind of mid, so that's dead last. Corbomite Maneuver or Where No Man would beat out Farpoint even though they're smaller in scope and not as flashy. The Kazon really are Temu Klingons. They work fine as placeholder enemies here. Jabin wasn't the most unreasonable person ever, but he wasn't exactly trying to meet Janeway halfway either. I do love that halfway through the battle she casually calls him up to give him the chance to get away from the array or be blown up along with it. That "I can, and I will" before cutting him off was just perfect. I get criticisms like "why is water a scarce resource" or "why didn't they rig the array to explode after sending them home". If I'm being generous I would say whatever hydrogen they can gather from space(and assuming no gas giant in system) they need for fuel, and any ice asteroids/comets in the system might have been mined out a while ago, and Neelix did talk about warring kazon sects so it might not be as simple as doing a water run to the neighboring system(he did say some sects have water, and seemingly don't share). But if the problem is that rain can't form on that planet, then the water is already in the air, and condensers could collect it(think Tatooine moisture farmers). As others have addressed, with Kazon reinforcements on the way and the array damaged, and with several hours needed to activate the program under ideal circumstances, it's unlikely they could have held the array long enough to send them home anyway, so I think people are overly critical of this point. Great reaction guys. Voyager is off to a running start.

Actuarial Lurker

LJ- I was careful to say "ALSO this implies that this is likely to be the first mission as captain of this ship"....that this was Janeway's first command and SHE didn't know anyone not that the Defiant didn't exist before, just that it had been built as a result of the Warp 5 speed limit.... She did know Tuvok from the USS Al-Batani which was mentioned on the show Wondering if I missed any other dialog since there are definitely Voyager novels that give her back story, that I haven't read, that I know have more details...

Tim Nikiforovs

Exactly. I think some people want to hate Voyager so they come up with any reason they can to do so. As has been pointed out, the Array may not even have been ABLE to send them home after that ship crashed into it, and if it was, it would have taken Tuvok hours to set the program and they didn't have the time(NOT ENOUGH TIME!!!!). Even putting that aside, choosing to use it to return home would mean sacrificing an entire species not to save her crew from death, which would still be incredibly selfish, but to save them from being stranded. That would be antithetical to everything starfleet should stand for. You'd expect that from romulans or cardassians, not people who are supposed to be our protagonists. And also, the show needs to happen.

BN13

Also, not only would they be sacrificing an entire species just to benefit themselves, but they'd be sacrificing potentially that entire sector of the Delta quadrant as well. If the Kazon got control of that array, it would have been catostrophic. They wouldn't have stopped with just the Okampa. They would have become an unstoppable power. If you're going to adhere to the spirit of the Prime Directive, destroying the array causes the least amount of unintended disruption in that sector.

BN13

I NEVER heard anyone complain that Janeway was a woman. What I heard constantly was how Janeway was stupid and/or psycho for not using the array to get the crew home, all to save some Okampa species that nobody cared about. Or how Neelix was the worst character ever. Or how the Kazon were the worst villains ever. Or that Tuvok was bland and boring. Or how Voyager was too mainstream, watered down, had bad science, was stupid, was too goofy, or was just bad Trek.

V G (Zay)

Yeah the thing is after the mid 2000s it was not as easy for people to just openly say they hate a woman captain, but when they hate on Janeway and use words like 'unstable' for decisions or moments of vulnerability comparable to what male captains did without remark, it seems pretty clearly misogynistic

Jason Aud

There must have been a deleted scene where the Chief Engineer did as well haha.

Lovok

Just wanted to say that of all the many "female lead" characters I've seen in my life, Kate Mulgrew's portrayal of Janeway is by far the best and most credible. *Especially* when you filter out female leads with superpowers or that are non-human, as that's a whole different category. As a normal human female, she's the only one I've probably ever found to be believable as a leader, especially with male subordinates. I can't emphasize enough just how incredible Kate Mulgrew's performance is throughout this series. And I absolutely adore her more classical old-school female Hollywood accent (a la Grace Kelly). That being said, you'll learn in an incredible documentary down the road the toll this role took on Mulgrew's personal life. Destroyed her marriage and relationship with her children. In that regard, a bit of a Faustian bargain to be this icon of female leadership at the expense of her family and personal life. Quite fascinating to dwell on.

BN13

Yes the Maquis, and the whole Native American tie in to the Marquis in Journey's End were created as setup for Voyager. I think originally, they wanted a lot more emphasis placed on the premise that this wasn't a 100% starfleet crew. They wanted half of the crew to be outlaws and anti-starfleet in order to provide a central source of conflict. I think a lot more of that conflict was originally part of this pilot. But somewhere along the line, the writers were ordered to change it. It ended up working out that TNG and DS9's setup of the Maquis was way better than the payoff we got here.

BN13

I do not agree that "best" and "favorite" are the same, and I think that seriously thinking (joking is fine) that something is best just because it's your favorite is very inaccurate and out of touch. You can have stuff that is your favorite that you either know isn't actually that good, or you even personally like other things better as a whole. For instance, I can have the best steak that I've ever eaten in my life, and say that steak was the best thing I've ever eaten in my life. But my "favorite" food might be something that I don't enjoy nearly as much as that steak, but I like having it more often because it's cheap and comfortable, like chicken nuggets. The best way for me to describe this to somebody is that steak is the best, but chicken nuggets are my favorite. And that's not being inauthentic or feeling like I can't express my true opinion. That IS my authentic true opinion. I think when most people say that DS9 is best, but Voyager is their favorite, they're saying something along the lines of they enjoy DS9 because it's done very well and they like those episodes the best. But they enjoy Voyager because it's more comfortable and easy to watch, specifically because it's NOT the best. There's a lot of Voyager that falls into guilty pleasure territory for a lot of people.

jan

i'll keep it short - i do like Neelix, not my fav character but i do like him - Tuvoc is my fav but you gotta love Janeway - thanks guys love your work

Jack Mingle

Well let's just say that curing a disease is fairly simple, I don't think the Ocampa have the same level of technology as the Federation.

DataL0re

short and simple , I enjoy Voyager , I got my favorite episodes, I like it and looking forward to see your reactions

DataL0re

Kate Mulgrew wasn't the first choice as captain of voguer , Genevieve Bbujold was, thank god Kate became captain

Jack Mingle

Clearly both Talyn and Actuarial Lurker did not pay attention at all to anything in the show. Logic is vacant here.

River Acheron

Plus we are subscribing modern American social taboos, ethics and law to two different alien races on the other side of the galaxy, which doesn't make any sense, so I don't see any problem. And when it comes to Neelix, that's the LEAST of his problems.

Actuarial Lurker

I like the food analogy....Millions of people eat McDonalds and only a few thousand might eat at a 3 Michelin star restaurant...it doesn't mean that some fast food is good- it's just "easy".

River Acheron

Voyager is def comfort food if you're into that thing. Something to keep on while multitasking like gaming or something. It doesn't require full attention like DS9 or even TNG.

Shortskirtsandexplosions

Lulz... I actually "watched" a bunch of unseen Voyager episodes in the background while TF2ing back around 2010ish or so.

River Acheron

Tuvok was correct though. Sacrificing the Ocampa technically would have been Prime Directive-Approved.

River Acheron

Isn't there footage out there of Genevive as Janeway? Not only was she the first choice, she literally got hired. I think

startrekiborg

As for Neelix, I agree. As for the rest, I think you're logically right, but we're all just overthinking this. Americans will always find a way to complain about anything.

BN13

Yes, but it becomes a matter of letter of the law vs spirit of the law. Which decision actually leads to the most non-interference? Originally, the prime directive was intended to be used more in situations like this that would still require the Captain's interpretation and discretion. Unfortunately, most of the time it was used very rigidly instead. I'm glad that here, Janeway actually takes ownership for being involved, rather than letting the Prime Directive absolve them of all consequences of their actions.

Actuarial Lurker

Voyager isn't trash...it just doesn't live up to is potential for many die hard fans. Part of it is because they watched the first season of a show that was finding its footing while also being targeted at UPN mass audiences at the same time that DS9 was hitting its peak and NOT being aimed at a mass audience....If DS9 had run for two or three years on its own and the same Voyager episodes had come out in the same order- just later the sentiments would be different...

Actuarial Lurker

The Milky Way galaxy is estimated to be about 100,000 ly in diameter with the Earth and Sun about 26,000 ly from the center. If Voyager is more than 70,000 ly from home it would be over 45,000 ly away from the Galactic Center on the opposite side So we are about half way out on one side and Voyager would be about 90% of the way to the edge on the other side, assuming that the line connecting the two went through the center of the MIlky Way...

Actuarial Lurker

And since that pie or better yet a clock is 100,000 light years in diameter and the Sun is 26,000 ly from the center we can imagine being 52% of the way down a clock hand facing straight down to 6 o'clock , and Voyager 70,000ly away or 44,000/50,000 or 88% of the way up towards the 12, but only if it were right on the Delta/Gamma Border. Since its fully in the Delta Quadrant it has to be even closer to the edge near 1 0'clock to make the diagonal of that triangle work out to be 70,000

Actuarial Lurker

in NYC area where I'm from, UPN acquired WWOR/Channel 9 at the start of 1995, and was always the NY Mets station while WPIX/Channel 11 was the home of DS9 and TNG reruns along with NY Yankees baseball prior to sports migrating to cable channels owned by the teams UPN/9 had lots of reruns of MASH, Cheers, Seinfeld, The Simpsons to go with Mets and News PIX 11 had DS9 at 8-9pm and TNG reruns from 9-10pm on Mondays and safe comedys like Full House, Family Matters and Cheers reruns

Actuarial Lurker

Also doesn't mean that its bad- just that its fast food and you just might want fries that day...

Actuarial Lurker

My wife was a trailblazer in a very male dominated field and loves Voyager and Janeway and other female characters for their portrayal of smart leaders...she loves DS9 for its psychological coherence and the brilliant character driven writing...and I agree with her

Greg Quinn

Episode that I don't remember at all, maybe never saw it. But I enjoyed the episode and the reaction.

HeatheЯ

But hey Michelle Forbes went over to Homicide: Life on the Street in hte 90s and was fantastic :)

Red Claw

To me it's more along those lines of ... This steak is great, but this Spaghetti Bolognese are also great. From a cooking perspective the steak is better made, but I personally don't like steak that much. So I enjoy a decently well made Spaghetti Bolognese always more than a masterfully prepared steak. You can acknowledge, that something is great and well made, but just not for you, because of personal preferences.

BN13

Exactly!

Scarpad’s Domain

The voyager premiere as far as pilots go was pretty good. But I’ve liked all the pilots the shows have had, pilots are tough, they have to do a story that is acceptable while introducing our characters and Caretaker did that well

Scarpad’s Domain

Voyager is my least favorite series but it still had some very good episodes.

Lozman73

Hey Josh..., you've probably looked it up by now, but Voyager is Intrepid Class :) & pretty lil ship with upswing nacelles to go to warp

Kevin Jackson

Disagree with yall STRONGLY on The Emmisary DS9 pilot! STRONGLY! Glad yall enjoyed the VOY pilot though. And PS: I'm cashflowhustles on YouTube if yall see me commenting and participating in future YT comment threads. That DS9 pilot is absolutely amazing IMO BTW.

Lorne Pribbeno

Well damn, you picked out all the characters that were gonna be killed off right away. Sorry, fellas

Target Audience

See your comments all the time! Thanks for the support!

Summer

Guess its good Ensign Gates wasn’t there

Trillhouse

"It's not the best Trek, but it's my favorite" probably isn't as fringe of a take as you think. Not sure I'm there (DS9 still #1), but I 100% get it and can be persuaded. Voyager is like junk food: there may not be a lot of macronutrients, but it sure is fun to gorge on.

Jason Aud

There is and I am so glad she didn't last. She might be a fine actress in her own right but having seen both Mulgrew nailed it right from the start and did the scenes I've seen much better IMO

River Acheron

And I have NO problem with Voyager's first few seasons (aside from some E's and D's). It's what comes later... But I don't hate it or think it's trash. It's so-bad-it's good. Rediculous, unintentionally funny, and nothing to take seriously. For ME! Just my own personal feelings about the later seasons. I cant get into show details as to why I feel the way I do, oh but I will when it's time-appropriate. lol

Nolan

I'm not saying Voyager is trash. I reserve that for more recent entries. It IS however, my least liked of the first 5 series. All I'm saying is that one's enjoyment of something does not equate to an assessment of quality

superskittles

The YouTube edits have always been enough for me, but I just love Voyager so much, I needed to see your every little reaction. So here I am as a full member and I don't regret a second of these 3 hours 😍 Here's to 7 seasons!

Badmiral Burgess

Voyager is one of my personal favorites. The premiere is solid and I also think they do a great job of setting plot and characters. My only criticism is they Introduce the Kayzon the villains and they are capable of space travel but don’t have fresh water? Kinda stupid lol

Hat

I have a 1080p fan upscale of this entire show on a flash drive that lives in my TV. I've watched it many times. As a 90s kid, I became obsessed with TOS because the Syfy channel would do 8 hour marathons everyday all summer, so when I started watching Voyager, it didn't seem like TNG, as it lacked the alpha quadrant politics amongst the various races we all know. What it did seem like to me, was a back to basics modern version of TOS. Every bottle episode has the promise of some new alien species to discover... I really do love it, just in a different way than TNG and DS9.

Joe Concepts

Wow, 482 comments?!? I can see I waited too long to comment. :) BUT I will, anyway. It's hard to say much about this, because most of my review of the series is as a whole, and it would be kind of spoilery. I will say I always looked at this as a show with a lot of unrealized potential. There are one, maybe two things in the premiere that should have some payoff/follow-up, but never do. The Kazon to me this early felt like the early TNG Ferengi again. Set up as new villains, but not quite figured out yet.

Hat

The unrealized potential angle is valid, but it also always bothered me too. UPN was paying for the show, and they wanted a bottle episode show. Michael Piller wanted a DS9 show, and tried to bake it in with the premise. When he attempted to make a show they didn't ask for, they fought him and he left. The 'unrealized' show would never have occurred, no matter what. Paramount wasn't going to pay for Voyager and DS9 themselves, and UPN didn't want a serialized show as their flagship.... which they were paying for. If they made it heavily serialized like some people wanted, then UPN could have sued them for breach of contract.

ShazD

Yeah the pilot is well made but there's a lot of stupid shit that makes me feel like Michael Piller had already lost his touch a bit. Why are the Maquis of all people so keen to jump into Starfleet uniforms!?

ShazD

Bro its the Maquis.

ShazD

Ethan Phillips' absolutely superior acting performances when they give him some really meaty dramatic material could never allow me to hate Neelix.

ShazD

Voyager is definitely far from trash. I could name 20 episodes off the top of my head that easily sit with the best of TNG/DS9 on an episodic/story/writing level.

BN13

I don't think the unrealized potential even had anything to do with serialization. That it some of its unrealized potential yes. But there's tons of stuff that this show sets up that they could have easily done on a purely episodic basis that they just never do. Also, like TNG, they could have developed some characters a lot better.

Matt Newmark

Yeah it's Shades of Grey bad.

Cranky Grandma

It could have done with a scene of chakotay presenting the options to he maquis who begrudgingly agree (most of them). Certainly they would be impressed by Janeway protecting the ocampa from a dangerous foe trying to steal their home and resources. And what other options do they have? A shame we didn’t get even a hint they’d agreed to it. Then again it would have affected pacing.

Cranky Grandma

I suspect autocorrect. It gets me all the time.

BN13

Thanks. I post these on my phone and if I don't have time to re read it 20 times and correct all the random stuff my phone threw in, my posts are unreadable.

Robbee Barclay

Finally on the Patreon and hope to stick around for awhile! My YouTube handle is truecolours412 and I’ve been following since you started DS9. I only do one YouTube or Twitch (or Patreon, now) sub at a time and Voyager felt like the perfect time to hop on board. I am thrilled I can easily cast the Patreon to the Roku, and that the captions on here are pretty good too. Now, excuse me while I explore the backlog 🚀

Skye Maidstone

Wow after rewatching this after all these years it's more dull than I remembered. It has some serious pacing issues. It's still a solid pilot and does a decent job of introducing the characters

Geordie Joe

They didn't cast Robert Duncan McNeill as the Nicholas Locarno character in Voyager because they would've had to pay royalties to the original writers of The First Duty for every episode that Locarno appeared in. Instead, they created the almost identical character of Tom Paris, played by the same actor. It's sad they chose to save money rather than continue to grow a character with an established backstory.

Summer

In the pre discussion you guys considered Generatiobs impacting Voyager, it was reasonable, some pointed out ths stardates were not aligned like that. I would also, being a defector about Trek movies in general, want to point out, until Star Trek six and to a degree even after, movie events barely had any bearing on the show, I feel it should stay that way, when watching the show we can ignore all movies. This to me should be how it works, what happens in the movies stays in the movies.

Billy T. Riker

Finally, we start the epic voyage home... 🖖

Capture The Moment

You guys definitely said some things but overall it seems like you guys are excited and I can't wait to see your progression through the show

MartyMc

Jacoata is the man!

MartyMc

Guys, summer was rerun season.

Z.S. Nope

This was my first time watching star trek live as in same day watch, same day aired. Remember sitting on the edge of my chair at 12 watching this premiere. I get why they dropped the whole maqui thing in ds9 and TNG, because they were actively developing the show and they wanted it to feel like a lived in universe rather than just making it a throw away reason as to why they were coming together with an unknown group. If you saw TNG or Ds9 you knew who they were already and that crawl Did the heavy lifting for the premiere. Plus from interviews and stuff I've seen it was said that the crew coming together by the end wasn't suppose to occur but they people above said we need them to be one crew to move on. Can't wait to see what your guys takes are on the show as it goes on. And it's 75,000 light years. 😜

Summer

I just believe there aren’t enough comments on this video

MertzRocks

Yeah 505 (*ahem* 506 now) jus' ain't 'nuff... 😜

MertzRocks

Anyone comment on the fact that a huge recent project for Robert Duncan McNeill has been producing and directing Resident Alien with Alan Tudyk. Just finished its run last August. Great show, and funny af.

paultardspambot .

I think Paris was supposed to be Nick. he has the same backstory. In my head cannon, he is Nick, he just used a differnt name t distinguish himself from his failed starfleet career

paultardspambot .

so while DS9 refers to the Alpha Quadrant as "our side"... so the milky way is closer to a disc then starts going equally in all directions. As such one can draw a sort of "north/south" grid from it as if you were looking down. The Federation did this, using the ultra massive black hole at the center of a galaxy asa thru point, extending through Earth. Earth was supposed to be on the boundary of the quadrants but when they measured closely its actually in the alpha quadrant. So the Federation core is split between Alpha and Beta. The Romulans are to the "east" of the Federation in the Beta. the Klingons "southeast" with Cardassian far "southwest." There are maos at this point though you still want to be careful with spoilers. So anyway, most of what we see from Trek takes place in that region around the Alpha/Beta Quadranys. But if you think of the whole galaxy, you've got four use quadrants. With Earth on the "south" and slightly "west"- Alpha is southwest quadrant, Beta is southeast. Gamma is northwest, Delta is Northeast. The Gamme Quadrant is where the Dominion is located. The have mentioned it briefly, with Guinan I believe, but the Borg are from the Delta and when Q transported the Enterrpise in Q Who?, He transported them to the Beta much closer to the Delta.

paultardspambot .

Note- The Intrepid class is one of the new line of Anti-Borg ships, so she couldn't have had command for long. I would say this has to be one of the earlier missions. They mentioned bio-neural cell packs, they also have nanites yo repair damagae and apparently industrial replicators, as the ship was built for long term lomg range exploratory missions. But She must have took over this ship at some point durin DS9 season 3, and other then Tuvok it doesn't seem like she knows these people well. So I would this is one of the Vpyager's first missions, and if nor, it's certainly less then a year they've been togather.

paultardspambot .

Chakotay was on the colony from TNG, dropped out of Starfleet to fight for his people then joined the Maquis. A funny fact, they hired an "expert" in the culture Chakotay was supposed to be from as an advisor. It turned out he was a fraud and everything he told them was made up or just stuff he heard or read.

paultardspambot .

Yes, Kes is an ocampa that Neelix has been dating.

paultardspambot .

As of this episode, Kes is only two years old. her species undergoes rapid maturation nad has short life spans

paultardspambot .

It's been officially confirmed that it was young Tuvok in the movie

paultardspambot .

Strongly dislike Tuvok. He plays the role like he's constantly constipated. We don't see any Spock like stuff, in fact Tuvok doesn't even seem particularly unemotional. he just seemed irritated all the time (granted hes far from vulcans stuck on a ship with humans). Otherwise his actions. like all the characters unfortunately, are totally inconsistent and depedent on what the plot requires

paultardspambot .

You are right. There was a lot of interesting potential here. And I think a lot of people, especially those who didnt love DS9 like you do, were anxious fot "TNG 2.0" But as Moore, said, this episode highlight the problem. Youve got all this interesting stuff set up, and by the end of the episode, the maquis are in Starfleet uniforms. Moore said the problem was they never believed in their own premise. They wanted yo be doing TNG 2.0, and that the kind of show they made. But while there sre individually decent sci-fi plots, the characters and the world dont drag us in, they dont feel believable. You mentioned the characters are archetypes right now. A good show would have filed those in and expanded them. In Voyager, its not so much as they stay archetypes, they dont even say that. Outside of Janeway and the Doctor, no body undergoes any real character evolution or are even well defined as characters. IMO, too often this feels like "TNG fan fiction". Like trek written by people who don't get the characters matter, or don't get the world has to be consistent and believeable. Yes, Janeway's decision here will be a huge thing going forward. But even there. while this is obviously going to impact Janeway, one gets the sense (and I get it even here althought it may work) that the writers want to project Janeway as a "strong captain" and in service of that they make her too... arrogant, or too eager to make buig decisions without getting feedback or even examining whatever principle of the week will prevent them from getting home.

paultardspambot .

The Kazon are an especially unpopular villian. You will notice there are different "distrums" or clans or whatever to the Kazon. The inspiration behind them was they were supposed to be like LA gangs in the news. Like, we've seen plenty of united speciies, what if there was a species that was primitive but violent and roams the galaxy as criminal gangs? But yeah, people had a problem with that take and i Think it's a consensus that the Kazon were weak villians, especially as there gang motif makes them feel too much like KLingons lite. I guess they are as far away as you can get from The Dominion or The Borg, or even the Cardassians. These arent arent smart planners r even technologically advanced by trek standards. They are dangerous because they are violent and stupid.

paultardspambot .

I've been pretty consistent in expressing how and why I strongly dislike Voyager. As I said, we we get to it, I'll post a critique by Ronald Moore that I 85 percent agree with. I wont be pointing out the problems for every episode, but when there is an egregious example of what I mean I'll point it out

paultardspambot .

That said, you may end up enjoying the show much more then I though. You loved TNG so much, and Voyager is very much an inferior copy of TNG. But you liked TNG enough, Voyager has enough intentional similarities you will probably like it. It has become clear you are not going to like DS9 the way the fans like it. You might like it as a show overall, but its already clear with not regostering with the spiritual themes and being somewhat turned off by the galactic scale politics, it just isn't what you want out of Trek, and many of those elements which for the fans add to and enhance the character stuff and the stuff you dont like make it into something for the fans where youre just not going to have the same expereince. Its also that the fans are invested in the Federation and being indifferent to it, which is a strange way to watch the show (from the TRek Bible Roddenberry explained people have to empathathize and root eith the characters) We are supposed to root for the Federation because. with its occassional problem, it really is a utopian orginization that is trying to do right. Buying into that and how that affects our characters and what choices they have to make is an essential part of "getting it" as well as the themes about apath and hope and faith. So I have kind of acceoted DS9 isnt really going to be FOR YOU, and you might enjoy it overall but youre going to miss the point of some episodes. whereas the things I that put me off Voyager for you won't be the same kind of deal breakers because you like the concept and are used to (a much milder version at times) on TNG.

paultardspambot .

ok, as I said, in my head cannon Paris IS Locorno, BUT.... We do have some things established here about Paris. He was in starfleet. There was a mission. An accident. 3 people died due to pilot error. Paris tried to cover up that it was due to pilot error as he was an established pilot. He altered records and falsified data. He was caught and expelled from starleet. Sometime after that, he joins the Maquis, and is captured on, not his "first day" of being in the Maquis, but his first missiion. He was in a penal colony in New Zealand, and Janeway went there to get him because he had some familarity with where the Maquis were and how they operated. Their mission was to find a maquis ship that disappeared in the badlands. Obviously Starfleet was concerned it could be some kind of ruse or plan

paultardspambot .

Oh yeah, and Paris says here he would have gotten away with it had he not opened hus mouth and confessed to it. Now logically, being responsible for the deaths of three people, this should put a damper on his "I'm the best pilot ever" thing. But they dont really bother with that, so I just feel like they wanted to have Locorno, but it was some network thing where the new network didnt want a chracter from TNG which was still airing in syndication. But his "official" story is different from what Locorno did. Locorno was the leader of an elite squad of cadets who were going to impress everyone by doing a dangerous, baned maneouver, it went wrong, some one died, and Locornor iniitally convinces everyone tocover it up and tries t lay the blame on their dead teammate, but it when it becomes clear This won't work, Locorno takes the blame for the team. This background story is a little different. Pilot error is tragic but theres no "evil." But Paris didnt want to lose his priviliges so he tried to cover up his error. The thing is, both characters have an admiral father in starfleet. So for me, and in terms of how the characters acts and evolves, I just say they wanted to to be Locorno and the audeince is supposed to think that. but thy had to change it for some technical studio reason. I've read memory alpha and it doesnt say that, but i still bet thats what happened. Because why would you create a character played by the same actor who has a nearly identical background by make them a different character?

paultardspambot .

As far as the guy saying he loves Voyager the most.... makes sense to me. If it was your first star trek, and you have similar fond memories of it like people do about the others, it may be your favorite, but as you get older with a more critical eye you could realize that DS9 was the better show, its just never going to be THAT SHOW that got you into it as a kid. I know you read some takes that weren't this, but generally from what I've seen, the people who love Voyager mostly had it as their introduction to trek, and I could see it would seem very different if you had nothing to compare it to

paultardspambot .

Ro on Voyager would have been a major improvement

paultardspambot .

You can understand how as a kid, Transformers (1986) may have been your favorite movie. As an adult, though, you're going to realize its not actually "the best movie of all time" even if its your individual favorite movie.

Sherpa Jones

The second half was really hard to follow without a synchup between episodes.