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UNCUT - Phage (VOY S1E5) | Star Trek Journey 345 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-02-20 13:00:20
Edited:
2026-02-21 14:49:22
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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Summer

Cynical moment, the writers needed to show the Doctor and Kes more for the audience to take them seriously. Seriously on my part as disturbing as the idea of this episode is its a favorite of season 1. Its good to be watching Voyager again

Fedora The Explorar

Armin Schimermann is in fact a Theatre Director and is known for teaching and adapting a lot of Shakespeare

Fedora The Explorar

I don't really see how this episode is like TOS, I've never really heard anyone say that. Can you elaborate on that?

Zenlike Creature

I vaguely remember the Vidiians and the Phage, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Guess we'll find out. Agreed, solid episode with some nice character moments and an introduction to a new species.

THE LORE!!!

"Flat 7" This line really struck a chord with me.

Vexx

Watching you guys run through these shows has given me a new appreciation for different aspects that I never payed attention to before. I noticed the score during the scene when Neelix was having is freakout moment and I am kind of surprised you didn't mention it. The music got decidedly horror movie and I never ever noticed that before this time watching it.

startrekiborg

The time difference between your copy and Paramount Plus is driving me crazy. As soon as I sync it up, it's gets out of sync.

William Roberts

in ep 3 i think, the Doctor mentions that part of his program includes knowledge of X amount of well established and respected doctors and I wonder if Bones was one of them and that was why he hit us with the "i'm a doctor not a..." deal.

Daniel Garrett

Michael Westmore’s roots go back to his grandfather George, who founded the first Hollywood Makeup Department in 1917. Between 1930 and 1960, if you saw a major studio movie, you were likely seeing a Westmore "product." FUN FACT: While Michael didn't work on the original Star Trek, his Aunt Pat Westmore was the hair stylist for Seasons 2 & 3! FUNNER FACT: They are the only family to have a collective star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

Matchstick Jose

Watching this again with the reaction, it’s an episode that has a lot of good elements that never quite comes together, IMO. Spending so much time searching for the Vidiians, instead of just jumping right into meeting them and learning about what they are, is an odd choice that pretty much requires that five-minute exposition dump at the end, instead of a deeper exploration of them. Really strong episode for the Doctor, though. The Kes-Doc dynamic is one of the more poignant ones on the show so far.

Collin Freeman

Spock's Brain done Voyager style. Instead of a brain, they harvest lungs. Done better here than in TOS. I agree with the ratings you each gave it.

Troubled Tribble

My mom hated this show and it started with this episode. I had to watch it in my room for the rest of the series due to "disgusting ugly aliens"

Sam Langanke

I think because the commercial pause cuts to black are shorter or something. Annoys me too.

Ryan

I like that the writers made the Vidiians sympathetic characters, or tried to. They set up Janeway's moral dilemma nicely. Of course then they hit the reset button because they're trying for seven seasons and Neelix has to be able to walk, but still, a solid early Janeway moment. I'm also amazed by how prescient the Doctor's whole character is now that AI is a daily thing. Does he just do a good imitation of learning and growing, or can he actually learn and grow? What does it mean for us if he can? None of that felt as pressing in 1995.

startrekiborg

Yeah I think you're right. I saw that in this one when I had it perfectly synced, it went to black, and then it came on on their video while I was still in black for an additional 3-4 seconds.

Darren

I like this one - especially Janeways final scene The Vidiians are a cool concept for a villain sympathetic but creepy too

Matchstick Jose

Probably just a remnant of the state of organ transplantation in the ‘90s, but given how advanced the Vidiian tech is, you would think over the centuries they would have been able to maintain a vast stable of animals from which to pull and adapt organs from to use (rather than having to lure in aliens and ambush them). We’ve started to do that. Also, a question I might have asked if I was Janeway: “So, this virus that has devastated your people for millennia, since we’re, you know, standing right next to you, just how transmissible would you say it is?”

Doctor Pulaski

"You're wasting your time!"... Insulting me that is - I'm the greatest Dr. in the Galaxy! Also season 2 of TNG is PEAK!!

Chris Nunnally

I have that same problem. I wait until their video starts to fade back in, then I pause Patreon and wait until Paramount fades back in before I restart and it works pretty well.

Phenomenon (Doo - Dooo - Dah - Doo - Doo)

2000 years of being the best medical practitioners in the universe and you haven't come up with a phage vaccine yet? Sounds like Big Organ has a hand in keeping this disease going Okay... I heard it as soon as I typed it. Get your minds out of the gutter. There's only room for me down here

River Acheron

Interesting note: Phages are real. They are viruses that attack and infect bacteria. They are the most diverse lifeforms on Earth (if you consider viruses lifeforms. Some microbiologists say yes, some say no). There's an untold number on you right now. And more INSIDE YOU. They pose no threat to you, and may actually benefit us with gut health. Now I doubt that this Phage is the same as a bacteriophage, but hearing the name made me remember college Microbiology class. (and look them up...they look creepy as fuck!)

Worf and Riker Ride Again

You’re such a misunderstood doctor! This younger generation don’t know what real medicine looks like!

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Wow that’s two tear-inducing episodes in a row, is that a first? Also, I’m hearing you there Josh dropping that D&D lingo. You think Tuvok is some kind of gunslinger class?

Actuarial Lurker

They interview him on the D-Con/Shuttle Pod podcast (run by Enterprise cast members- so don't watch to avoid spoilers). Armin discussed how you need training in classical rhetoric that people from Ancient Rome through the 1800s would get in school to be politicians and orators to decode Shakespeare. He teaches acting courses where they break down the plays that way and demos it during the pod and its brilliant Armin's wife has survived nearly 20 year with Pancreatic cancer remission and he has teamed up with Jonathan Frakes to raise money for early detection with the PanCan charity

Actuarial Lurker

We see that without the Federation Janeway has to display strong moral character to lead her crew We will see starting with this episode that she is very "classic Catholic" in her reasoning using Thomas Aquinas' principle of double effect to reason that 2 wrongs don't make a right so lets the Videans go and then Kes exhibits classic biblical "Caritas" to donate a lung. Key Conditions for the Principle of Double Effect: The Act Itself Must Be Good or Neutral: The action cannot be inherently immoral. The Intention Must Be Good: The agent must only intend the good effect; the bad effect is foreseen but not intended or desired. Bad Effect Not a Means: The good effect must not be achieved by means of the evil effect. Proportionality: There must be a sufficiently grave reason for permitting the evil effect, meaning the good consequence outweighs the bad. Janeway wants Neelix healed- a Good Act, It is Well Intentioned (she shouldn't want to secretly get revenge on the Videan if she took the lung back, rationalizing that killing the Videan to get the lung would a good end justifies the means- this is tenuous Proportionality- the good consequence of healing Neelix outweighs the unmalicious act of taking the lung back- this FAILS since they can't surgically return the lung anyway so it would just be disguised revenge So she lets them go

Altariel

Just for the record: "I'm a doctor, not a botanist." – Bashir in 2x22 The Wire

Joshua Gudiso

I felt the same way about it taking too long to get to the Vidiians. Janeway ran the gamut of emotions in the transporter room. The episode could’ve delved into all the complexities and moral debates over multiple scenes/acts.

Elizabeth N

I remember this episode as being better than it was. The Neelix stuff is great, as is Janeway's ending scene, but instead of all the time spent tracking them down, perhaps the Vidiians needed a little more time to develop onscreen for us to buy the sympathy we're supposed to feel for them. Maybe if they'd been caught earlier and they spend time in the brig while Janeway debates her decision there could've been scenes where Janeway gets to know them and understands more of why they act the way they do. That mixture of sympathy and horror could've been dwelt on longer. Either way, it's still a pretty good episode in my opinion. The Vidiian's always creeped me out!

Steven Linden

Yeah, I think the actors playing the Vidiians weren't the greatest in this. Decent episode, though, with some good character development for the doctor. Your point about how many Trek fans in the TNG/DS9/Voyager era weren't necessarily big TOS fans, and this is certainly true. I had seen a handful of TOS episodes and generally liked but didn't love it at the time (I'd also seen the movies and liked those a lot on the whole). It was only years later that I went back and actually watched TOS all the way through.

DthDisguise

If you're enjoying Neelix not being super creepy with Kes, with being overly jealous or anything, thank Ethan Phillips. They originally wanted to make him and Kes more of a "traditional" romantic couple, but Phillips felt that the age difference, both between him and Jennifer Lien and between Neelix and Kes, was SO inappropriate and gross, that he actively fought that plot line and torpedoed their on screen chemistry.

Regan

Only in Star Trek do you get a two year-old girl who is more emotionally mature than her middle-aged boyfriend.

Actuarial Lurker

No you also can see that in the current White House and Corporate Board Rooms- allegedly

D Jammers

I just saw an interview with Roxanne Dawson and she said it took 2 1/2 hours to put on her makeup each day for character. Crazy

TalynOne

One of the better Voyager episodes, also we get to see Neelix suffer, which is always enjoyable.

Target Audience

I go into detail at 53:07. The A story is basically the format of something like The Corbomite Maneuver. Weird mystery sci-fi premise with the bridge crew exploring it with the ship then eventually you meet the alien and they have an exposition scene explaining everything.

D Jammers

I suppose if its still a whole head piece it doesn't matter if the mold is elaborate looking or not?

Philbot

I love Voyager’s bridge except for the “love seat” captain should have a center chair and commander a “jump seat” 💺 It’s not as distinctive as TNG but it’s very command centery

Philbot

I wonder they talk about replicated lungs, and that they can’t do it for Neelix What if they gave the Vidians replicator technology could they grow their own organs?

Jonathan Llyr

This is the first really great episode of Voyager and my first favourite - but I wish they’d called it “Neelix’s Lungs” in the spirit of “Spock’s Brain.” Many moons ago when I hosted on Canada’s SPACE Channel we had a yearly show that was called The Spacey Awards and we gave Michael Westmore a Lifetime Achievement Award. I got to spend some time in his studio where I saw all kinds of original molds and makeups from the various Trek series, and then he invited me to his home where I spent a few hours and he showed me all kinds of Trek and other memorabilia from his long and brilliant career. It was like being in Willy Wonka’s chocolate factory. An unforgettable day with an incredibly talented man and a real gentleman.

alyssagynepuppy

Josh just saying "lifeforms" had me think of Data singing about scanning lifeforms in Generations.

Sam Langanke

I am curious. Has he told you about the reason of the tons of 'forehead aliens'. Was it always the budget?

Tim Nikiforovs

While there's room for somewhat better execution, I do think this is a strong early showing for Voyager. Like Elizabeth said, introducing the Vidiians earlier and building up the moral dilemma would have worked better, and better actors would have helped too. Still, the Vidiians are such a grotesque and unique concept and I have to credit the Voyager writers for coming up with a species that's so far outside the box after getting "klingons from Wish" in Caretaker. Obviously as tragic as the phage and it's effects on vidiian society has been, that never gives them the right to kill someone else to sustain themselves. I think Janeway strikes the right balance of not succumbing to petty revenge(and recognizing the impracticality of imprisoning them) while still letting them know she has no issues killing to defend her crew. But it does make you stop and think, if we found ourselves in that situation for so long, would we be any better? Probably not. On the surface it seems like a Neelix centric episode, but of course it's much more an early showcase of the EMH. It also shows how selfless Kes can be, though the scene where she stops the Doctor in the middle of trying to save Neelix's life while the clock is counting down to his inevitable death really pisses me off. WHATEVER the risks are, it doesn't matter, because he's 100% dead if they don't act. Still, giving up a lung is a big sacrifice, so good on her. I too wonder if it would last Neelix's lifetime given the short lifespan of Ocampa. Maybe that was addressed in whatever the Vidiians did to adapt it to Talaxian physiology.

Jonathan Llyr

While budget was always a concern, a big part of the “forehead aliens” was because Gene Roddenberry always wanted to make sure that any alien makeup didn’t obscure the actor’s eyes. Hence the forehead was an obvious place for a prosthetic!

Geordie Joe

Trying to imagine Genevieve Bujold's version of Janeway giving that 'deadly force' speech to the Vidiians.

Mr Indiscret

I totally agree with your opinion that this is the strongest series 1 since Classic Trek, but my enthusiasm waned by series 5 onwards, but that's straight series viewing episodes without mixing DS9, so I will be fascinated to see if your own passion remains as strong.

L J

"The competition has started." Just having watched the introduction, I have to take a minute to respond to this comment... I really hope that you don't go through the next five seasons looking at these two shows as "competing" because that is exactly why there are such strong feelings between the fans of the two shows. It's like fans look at the two shows like they have to choose a favorite. And the thing is, it's possible to love both series. They are two VERY different shows, with different premises, different characters, different styles, and different methods of execution. They both have strengths and weaknesses. I have really loved how you approached the start of Voyager with the mindset of "We're just excited for a new Star Trek series." And I think looking at both of them as two different types of Star Trek, rather than trying to compare and choose a favorite each week, will make for a much more enjoyable experience of appreciating each series for what it has to offer, not trying to compare DS9 to what Voyager is, or comparing Voyager to what DS9 gives each week. And that's true for all of the series. You've compared Voyager to TOS a lot, and there are certainly similarities, but it's not TOS. Again, there are things it does better. And there are things that maybe some people think it does worse. Each Star Trek series needs to be viewed through it's own lens, not seeing it as a reboot of one of the series or competing with another series. Just my two cents there...

clone1138

There is a Venn Diagram of Star Trek fans and Pro-wrestling fans with only slight overlap, but the absolute best people exist there.

tyranusfan

As I recall, at first in my area, DS9 aired on Saturday and Voyager aired on Sunday. Later they both moved to UPN, but I think they were still on different nights. (But I might be wrong about that.)

Hat

You hit on something I never fully considered. As a Voyager fan, I’ve always found the negativity toward the show excessive, but I realize now that my love for it likely stems from my first obsession: TOS. While I enjoyed TNG and DS9, those shows can make the universe feel small because they're so steeped in galactic politics. TOS and Voyager both capture that sense of being truly far from civilization and venturing into the unknown; the universe feels big again. Plus, the self-contained 'bottle episode' format just feels right for what Star Trek is meant to be. Of course, I love that TNG and DS9 expanded the franchise by adding more character depth, conflict, and serialization. While Voyager isn’t perfect, I like to think it borrowed a bit from those shows as well, giving it a modern edge that TOS lacks. Despite what critics say, many of these characters have fantastic arcs by the time the series finishes. I’ve also got plenty to criticize, but I’d have to spoil the show! I do think Season 2 is probably the weakest season of Voyager. It has a legendary seven-episode streak of 1-star episodes that is... rough, to say the least. I hope you can power through that stretch and still stay optimistic about the show!

Naglfarius

The Idea, that the Doctor says the "I am a Doctor, not..." because he has Bones programmed in him is such a cool Idea. It's headcannon for me now, thanks!

Numinous2019

It's time I acknowledged the 'upside' of Voyager (despite my frustrations with most of it). When Josh and Alex have finished watching it and choose their top 26 episodes, those 26 will be of a consistently high standard and wide variety. Intense, imaginative, poignant, well plotted, fun and thought provoking episodes that can rank among the upper tier of TV ST.

Numinous2019

I'm Irish. American TV scheduling is as complicated as baseball rules to us here in Ireland (and the United Kingdom by extension). Here and in Britain ST shows would be broadcast on the same day and time every week (first run obviously). Apart from a two week break at Christmas and Easter, all ST aired on a fixed timeslot/schedule.

V G (Zay)

Man I love Neelix so much. He's a flawed character, but so likable too, and I never felt like his flaws were inconsistent or didn't make sense: in fact most of them make PERFECT sense for someone who is essentially a kind and open person but who has lived a very solitary and hardscrabble life. Lots of great stuff with the Doctor and Kes too, and the Captain...🥵 I could watch her grit out angry but logic words (while pacing like she wants to put her boot through someone) every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Special shout-out to the poisonous look Janeway shot at the less-helpful alien when taking them to Neelix, and to the expression on that one security guy's face when he was getting scanned.

RoToRa

If you are interested in special effects makeup, then you may want to look into the reality competition TV show "Face Off", which ran from 2011 to 2018 on Syfy. It was hosted by Michael Westmore's daughter McKenzie and Michael Westmore himself appeared as a mentor to the candidates in some seasons. I can't recall if there were any Star Trek spoilers in the show, but I doubt there were any major ones.

Naglfarius

Facts! Pulaski was so good. Even in this one Season we got an Arc with her and Data. From seeing him only as a Machine, to the Point, that she agrees, that he is a Person and has respect and a beginning Frienship. Would have been great to see their relationship evolve over Season 3.

Retro Tom

I'm not sure where this Smackdown aired after Voyager thing came from. Voyager aired on Wednesday, Smackdown was on Thursday. Wednesday night was Trek night on UPN from Voyager to Enterprise. In later years they did add a replay night on Saturday, but Wednesday was the premiere night. Also UPN had a 2 hour block from 8 P.M. to 10 P.M. to air stuff on the local affiliates before the local news started. There's not even any logistical way they could've aired a 1 hour TV show & a 2 hour wrestling show in a 2 hour block even if they never even showed a single commercial

V G (Zay)

To counterpoint, there's only 2 1-star eps in Season 2 for me personally: and even those there's a certain joy to be had in the sheer batshit "what did I just watch"-ness of them XD Not every season 2 ep is a winner but they rarely make me MAD like some truly awful Star Trek eps do ;alsdfkghdfkgj

Forbidden Donut

Solid is a pretty good word to describe Voyager in general IMO. Not too many high-highs or low-lows come to mind, but... it's good.

jon bolton

The Bajoran mentioned who appeared again is called Seska played by Martha Hackett. You previously saw her as the Romulan in The Search. It's also her birthday today. She was the first Star Trek actor i had a photo with. I had a really great chat with her at a convention in 2012, and she insisted on a selfie when i told her we have the same birthday. This is another really good one, yet again i give it B.

Forbidden Donut

Also, I'm one of those fans who saw bits and pieces of TOS (mostly the movies) as a kid and fell in love with the TNG, DS9, VOY era of Star Trek, so I didn't have your perspective on TOS while watching Voyager. That's actually a really cool POV you laid out about how Voyager is sort of 'being TOS' or 'paying homage' to TOS. Hadn't really considered it that way before. Also credit to I think some of the other Patrons for mentioning this earlier in comments, but I think the way you described it here really lays it out there.

Forbidden Donut

Regarding Janeway's decision, I respect it, although I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that taking the lungs back from this thief is justified. It's the difference between saying "I would never shoot someone under any circumstances, ever," versus, "I would only shoot someone who is shooting at me, as means of self-defense." The Vidiian assaulted Neelix in a way that would normally result in his death to steal body parts he had no right to, so to me it would be justifiable to reclaim them. Although, as Josh points out, they said they already changed them so Neelix couldn't take them back, but then again they demonstrate superior medical technology, so maybe they were just lying?

Loot Narsbaar

I distinctly recall them airing back to back later in the series run

Loot Narsbaar

You never know, I could point out at least five different trek regulars who weren’t great in episode 1, who grew into their roles

Loot Narsbaar

I think the Voyager bridge is too big. I’m wondering if it was designed for wide screen. In crunch time it seems like it would be harder for everyone to communicate compared to the 3 other bridges… especially with alert sirens and consoles exploding all around. But even more importantly tv purposes I like everyone being closer together .

Loot Narsbaar

Transporters are supposed to filter that shit out

Matchstick Jose

The dialogue isn't the clearest, but I'm pretty sure the one Vidiian is saying that it isn't possible to return Neelix's lungs because the other Vidiian would die if that happened, not that it isn't possible to reverse the process and return them to Neelix. The rest of the conversation and Janeway’s choice only make sense if she can save Neelix by killing the Vidiian.

Retro Tom

Unless your local affiliate had a unique schedule it's logistically impossible to fit 3 hours into a 2 hour time block

Strife

You mentioned Tom Savini. When I was a kid I worked at a movie theater. I was sitting at the box office and one afternoon I was counting my register and a guy walks up eating an ice cream cone. I look up and immediately recognize Tom Savini. I blurted out something to the effect "You're Sex Machine!" He smiled and was very pleasant while buying his tickets. This was an era well before cell phone pics but I have no doubt he would have thrown a selfie my way. He was a nice man and I still remember that encounter fondly over 25 years later.

Strife

The conversation reads both ways IMO. Based on what we know of the Vidians from the episode it isn't a leap to think they could change them back but it would kill the sculptor. It also makes sense that they can't do it even if they would want to because they are irreparably changed. That all said I fully agree with the idea that Janeway would have been completely justified in killing this guy and taking his lungs if there was any chance at all of using them to save Neelix.

Scarpad’s Domain

I just watched Document of the Dead and it’s amazing the Savini basically taught himself the craft the guy is a wizard

Scarpad’s Domain

I always like Voyager but it would be last in the classic series for me . But I think my appreciation of it is more given what a shitshow modern Trek has become

Forbidden Donut

"I wasn't afraid of zombies, vampires, or werewolves, I was afraid of the more supernatural stuff." - Josh "Spooky" Mulder LOL

Hat

It is totally fair to disagree on the quantity of bad episodes in Season 2!

Weapon26

I edited this just in case it was too spoilerish.

Weapon26

Voyager ended up in a weird spot. A lot of the harder TNG fans either wrote off other shows, or went to DS9 and DS9 is about the 'trek world' and did amazing things. Voyager, like every star trek, took that '3 seasons warm-up' before finding it's legs. So people were already hardcore DS9 or just not watching Trek. DS9 got people back and people are finding out how fucking good it was, Voyager never got that.... yet. I have a feeling as people watch that show through, it will find it's own audience like DS9 has. Also, by the time Voyager is between seasons 1-3, there were so many amazing Trek characters that overshadowed the 'still good' Voyager characters. Given how heavy and adult DS9 becomes, I can see how others see Voyager as 'too light' which is a but unfair for Voyager, but totally understandable.

TinMan_7B9

Yes, that is the asteroid from TNG: The Pegasus. Strange how it ended up in the Delta Quadrant. And also yes, that corridor in the cave is the exact same corridor as the one in "Time and Again". In fact, you've already seen it (or parts of it) in TNG: 11001001, The Neutral Zone, The Hunted, Sins of the Father, Legacy, Future Imperfect and Star Trek V.

Some Guy

I was under the impression that the phage only attacked their species

Loot Narsbaar

Probably too spoilerish but that’s how I recall it

Jason Aud

It wasn't the Doctor that made Paris the field medic, it was the captain. "Mr' Paris I understand you paris you studied biochemistry at the academy" "...close enough, you just voluntiered to become field medic." Speaking about the Bridge, I think Voyager had my favorite. Can pan around, let the cinematic go or do a 3d walkthrough/look around here by clicking the 3d view if you want a better sense of it....the archive is great though don't go exploring the other pages too much haha. https://roddenberry.x.io/2371-uss-voyager-ncc-74656/?view=Bridge

Retro Tom

It's been quite a while a while, perhaps they did a one night 3 hour block that night, but it would've been a one off. Again, 3 hours doesn't fit in a 2 hour block which is what UPN did. The math doesn't work. Aside from any unique schedules changes, Wednesday was UPN's Trek day Memories can sometimes be unreliable, but facts never are

Laura Thornley

The great twist with Voyager is even the worst episodes are worth watching for the character moments. And Phage is a good episode, for context. Even on rewatches I'll see a particular episode and think "urgh, not this one..." but then get immediately hooked by the cold open of two of the crew just having a conversation about something completely unrelated to The Plot. Even early on the cast has great chemistry and bounce off each other beautifully.

Loot Narsbaar

The quality of S2 has forced me to pause my rewatch until J&A catch up

Todd

I think this episode is really strong, giving more character developments and setting up the status quo and subplots of Voyager. Kes and the Doctor have had some good interactions and her empathy towards him has caused his bedside manner to improve, as we see when he wakes up Kes. The Vidiians are compelling antagonists. I thought the silhouettes in their appearances almost gave a Nosferatu appearance with the dark colors and lean look. I know some people online have taken issues with the thousands die everyday, but it seems the Vidiians were a fairly advanced race, likely warp capable, prior to the Phage taking hold. They called themselves a sodality, which essentially means a brotherhood.

Hat

Oh I can see why. There are 26 episodes in S2, and I only like 10 of them. Of those 10, at least 4 of them I learned to like after repeat viewings. The other 16 fall somewhere between 'looking at my watch every few minutes' to 'okay'. This is my personal opinion, some people love S2.

Malamute

Neelix creepin on a 2 year old. Meh. Heh. Its a C. :-)

Mark Wood

The makeup department is the most stable departments of Berman's Trek. It might be the only department where the original department head is the head for every Berman production. Because of that (with a few minor examples, and a few vary glaring examples) the look of the races of Trek stay consistent for so long, that any later changes got a sizable number of fans upset (which isn't rational). Between TOS, And the 6 TOS films, look of races changed fairly dramatically, and barely any fans make any such fuss about it. But after the end of Berman Trek , bitching really ramps up.

Christopher Boscarino

Yo be fair, the BBC has called a character "The Doctor" for over 60 years. Sometimes it just works.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

The "I'm a Doctor, not a..." line makes in-universe sense coming from The Doctor, since his training data includes the experiences of specific Star Fleet medical officers. I imagine that Bones was one of these profiles and this is an example of The Doctor exhibiting behavior learned from his original training data.

Mark Wood

Voyager does have a solid first ish season, you have to go back to TOS season 1 to see stronger. I really can't wait to you get much further in the series to discuss more in depth things they do right and where they blow it big time, and in some cases why.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

Oh damn, I paused the video to type this literally 15 seconds before Alex brings up the same point lol. Nice call-out.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

I haven't vibed with the Voyager technobabble so far. For example, the Janeway/Torres scene in the Ready Room in Parallax talking about a reflection on the frozen surface of a lake... just didn't land for me. The metaphor felt forced and I didn't like how it was then extended to arrive at the solution. Anyway, I want to give this episode credit for how The Doctor explains his medical procedure by slapping Paris in the face. And also how he focuses on the stakes ("If it doesn't work, he will die.") instead of the technical details when explaining to Kes.

Mark Simonson

I've seen this take on the Kes/Neelix relationship a lot and I don't get it. Kes may be only two years old, but is an adult of her species. They just mature much more rapidly than other species, _and_ have shorter lifespans. She's not human.

Malamute

Even without the 9 year lifespan it still looks like a 50 year old guy creepin on a 16 year old. ;-)

Ken R

The dialogue is the weakest part of this show, and the technobabble can get ridiculous at times. Its a shame because a story doesnt really need it.

Erik L Jerks

As I've aged, I've grown in appreciation for Voyager. I've probably rewatched individual episodes of this more than DS9 (my favorite show). It was not the show I wanted it to be, but it was very good at doing what it wanted to be.

Erik L Jerks

It's such a different take. Her Janeway was slower and noticeably less confident (not sure if that a deliberate decision as an actor, or her own feelings bleeding through). All in all, it would have been more suitable if the ship's captain was killed and Janeway was compelled to take command as a more junior officer.

Erik L Jerks

Starfleet engineering decided to space the crew out more to reduce the risk of casualties when the explodium in the consoles ignites.

Mark Simonson

I get that. I think it's okay for the characters they created, but admittedly there was a nearly 20-year age gap between the two actors (20 and 39) at the start of the series. That's not unheard of even for humans, and fairly common in movies and tv shows, but not universally socially acceptable.

International Man of Leisure

Did it make you feel diminished? I feel it could've been augmented if it had been delivered by an dorian....

International Man of Leisure

This is the episode where the real Neelix begins to emerge and you'll see more of that development as you go forward. Also, iirc, Bob Picardo adlibbed the "I'm a doctor, not a..." line when auditioning, NOT knowing how iconic it was and it helped get him the role. The Doctor is 1 of 2 of my favorite characters on VOY. (The other won't be introduced for awhile.) He continues to develop & grow as my favorite for as long as he's on the show.

L J

That's an interesting take, and one I don't exactly agree with. As has been said, Voyager season 1 is stronger than DS9 or TNG season 1 and while it still had some necessary growth that occurred in Seasons 1-3, it wasn't anywhere close to the standard "3 season warm up" the other series required. Voyager was already solid and found it's characters much faster than the other series. In the 90s when the two series were first being aired, DS9 was the underdog. There were a lot of Trekkies who didn't warm up to the series at the time. On the other hand, while Voyager still had complaints or challenges, it grew over the course of the seven seasons and was seen more as traditional star trek. Voyager is not a weak or overshadowed series.

Loot Narsbaar

It is entirely possible I have confused one TV Event Of A Lifetime with the regular schedule due to relentless Smackdown promotion during commercials

Loot Narsbaar

We had two scenes from someone who didn’t really want to be there. She must have done something right to get cast in the first place. Had she stuck with it, it may have gotten better you never know.

Marissa

More importantly, how the heck are they still procreating? Bleck!

Actuarial Lurker

She is 2 years old out of a 9 year lifespan. If humans live to 130s in the 2300s (Admiral Bones McCoy was 137 when touring Enterprise in TNG) then Kes is (2/9) x 137 = 30.44 and Neelix is probably 45-50, so he's a "sugar daddy". If you use 1996 average US female life spans of 79.7 then Kes is (2/9) x 79.7= 17.71 and Neelix might be one of the "redacted" names on some recent PDF files. Ocampans might age like our pets- a 2 year old cat or dog that lives 15 years is already an adult since they have rapid early maturity- just like the Jem Hadar baby in The Abandoned from DS9 S3E6

Actuarial Lurker

She would give them a copy of some work by Sartre and the Videans would die of Existential Dread

River Acheron

Without saying what races...That fan bitching caused them to go back to Berman-Trek designs. So complaining did help.

River Acheron

I don't understand this complaint at all. They're aliens. Does the entire Milky Way have an 18 is the limit morality? We have no idea what's acceptable to Talaxians or Ocampans and what their social taboos are. I can't stand Neelix as a character but this argument about him and Kes doesn't even make sense. lol

Jon Miller

Alex in the first episode of TNG: "Oh no, an empath? I hate this Deanna Troi character." Years later in Voyager: "I like this character who's kind of like an empath!".

Bert

I would be updating my advance directive to make it clear that the holographic lungs thing is not cool and just let me die. Being stuck completely helpless on a ship with limited crew that regularly gets into dangerous situations and will never be able to drop me off at a starbase to be sent back to Earth is a wide awake nightmare. But hey, at least Neelix now has a single lung and it was donated by the passenger with the shortest lifespan. Life is a banquet.

Richard Stone

I’m glad you guys remember TOS fondly but I get surprised by the way you describe it sometimes. The reason it’s my favourite series is because I think it has the best character scenes. Hearing you describe this episode as “It’s like if TOS had more character scenes” is so far away from my perspective!

Weapon26

Also, It could be in various places in the country given mountain and central time. It was aired on network waves so it was put together by local affiliates so it could have been scheduled in various ways depending on different places in the country. Or bad memory, but I do remember that commercial as it stuck in my head. @@ Haha!

Weapon26

Oh! No worries, and I somewhat agree with you. The 'Three season warmup' can be more than just the 'show getting better'. Where a part of that is the show finding an audience and people warming up to the show and characters. From what I remember at the time. Voyager was as popular, if not more than DS9 at that time, though looking at it's perspective now. (Now meaning today and the last few years in retrospective.) People like to joke about Voyager, especially the DS9 people. At the time in the 90's it seems Voyager brought in a lot of new people into Trek. It is as I said, I think Voyager is very underrated and good. (I'd say has some of the most bad ass moments in Trek. Voyager has some of the best episodes in the entire franchise and as many as the other series.) Though right now, DS9 is getting a huge resurgence. And (this can just be me) it seems the DS9 people tend to really like to insult Voyager (though nothing serious, more jokes and light-hearted jabs) where I think both are their own thing and fantastic. Despite anything said, everyone that loves DS9 all consider Voyager still 'good trek' which it is. I think Voyager will have it's own resurgence in time. I think a lot of trek fans that were a bit cold on Voyager, if they rewatched, they would be surprised at how amazing it is.

Ken R

TOS had great character scenes and didn't need to put up neon signs announcing character scene incoming. I'd also add that these other shows rely on backstory as a replacement for front story. I don't need history lessons to know a character, I need to see how they react in the moment.

SureRuseUser

For me, the Borg had been a major horror, despite also being an intriguing faction/species in Star Trek, that, as a kid/young teenager, wasn't apparent, but something I understood/realised later on. What kept me on edge were two things. 1st, their Hive Mind which exsponges Free Will from the assimilated, and further, 2nd is the body horror of having perfectly normal people being cut up and fitted with some specialised cybernetics to further lean in the 1st part.

M.A. Moreno

Phage is easily the best episode so far. THIS is what the show's critics mean by, "We want the show to make use of its premise." 1. The ship is actively attempting to get necessary supplies. 2. The crew is finding ways to adapt to their limited resources. 3. Janeway faces challenges that are heightened by the circumstances. 4. The aliens are well-designed, unique, and actually interesting. 5. The story tackles real-world ethical issues in a sci-fi setting. And on top of that, we get a couple of major bonuses: 1. The Doctor and Kes both get fleshed out further. 2. Neelix is made to suffer, as he should. The one downside is that Neelix survives, but you can't win them all.

Greg Quinn

The holographic lung set up is basically the same as a Iron Lung (at least in how he is trapped in a tube).

Target Audience

I think a better way to describe it would be to say if TOS had more ensemble character scenes. Of course Kirk, Spock, and Bones had great scenes in most episodes, mostly in how they react to the plot of the week, but I don’t think I would expect a TOS episode to have a separate side plot between Uhura and Chekov that takes up considerable screen time for example.

Target Audience

I think it’s (mostly) a meme excuse to hate on Neelix. Kes is clearly shown to mentally be an adult, regardless of her fictional alien species age. Through 6 episodes she’s debatably one of the most mature people on the ship lol.

Malamute

Its just something i have felt since i watched these coming out in the 90's. I will withhold my reply due to spoilers. :-) Total legit for people to not agree with me.

TalynOne

Your maturity comes from experience. There's no way you can learn to be a proper adult in two years. Plus it doesn't even make sense for in canon reasons I can't discuss yet because of spoilers.

Target Audience

A human couldn’t learn it in two years. She’s not a human. Their brains are clearly evolved to function in a 9 year timespan.

Loot Narsbaar

After a few googles I am 99% sure I just remember wrong. I don't think they could get an affiliate to program an extra hour because those 10:00 slots were for the local news and probably their biggest moneymaker.

Loot Narsbaar

I'm at a point where I'm not gonna sit through 8 bad episodes to get to two good ones. There's only so many hours in the day.

Loot Narsbaar

It initially took Dorn 3 hours to get made up

River Acheron

While I think Hellraiser does ALL of this way better, I do agree. In fact, the Cenobites resemble the Borg in some ways (but even more horrific, cut up, and mutilated), they take your individuality, and you join Levitation's hive-mind. Also, Borg ships are cubes and Hell's Puzzle Box is a cube. If The Borg creeps you out, the Cenobites will absolutely terrify you.

River Acheron

Exactly. The fact is, we have no clue how fictional alien races mature, we have no idea what their societies consider "consent", we have no idea what their taboos, customs are beyond what little is shown on screen. We don't even have a right to judge other cultures by our own standards on Earth. I took Anthropology classes, and the one thing that my professor stressed more than anything is to never assign American ethics, morals, taboos or customs on other societies. There is no such thing as universal morality or a standard "right and wrong". To get weirded out that, "omg that alien is not 18 and the other one is over 18" doesn't even make sense to me. If people really got bothered by that in the 90's than I fear for our judgy culture. lol. It's science fiction and once again....we're talking about two different alien races we know next to nothing about. I rag on Voyager and Neelix a lot, but this is one instance where I think fans overwhelmingly overreacted. It would be like saying, "Cardassians don't use the dollar system!? They use a Lek? That's so wrong!" That would make zero sense because a dollar is our own invention...to assign an economic norm to a race that has no knowledge of that system defies logic. I think it's the exact same with this situation as well in that people are assigning some made-up-by-society acceptable age number to races who would have extremely different customs and taboos. Nothing magical happens to the human body and mind at 18. It's a cultural agreement. Neelix is a LOT of things, but I don't think he's a creep or anything.

Malamute

Thou doth protesteth too much. :-D Its a little skeevy. It just is. I can't finish this discussion. Spoilers. Its ok to disagree.

penoyer79

easily my favorite of the first few episodes so far. creepy aliens, cool janeway "dont fuck with me" speech, more braga sci-fi weirdness... i thought the alien expo was fine and kinda cool actually .... nothing here i didn't like.

penoyer79

haha i still remember Alex and his "Douchebag Bones" quips early in TOS... talk about a wtf moment. thank god that went away.

penoyer79

as much as we can't stand the technobabble - the actors hated it even more.

penoyer79

Strange New Worlds and Enterprise are both good shows. not Peak TNG or DS9 but solid.

Naglfarius

Same for me. Seeing Voyager in this light, i think we will have a good Time the next 2-3 Years on this Channel.

Hat

That is fair. Since it's primarily bottle episodes, you can just watch the good ones though. When I watch TOS or even TNG, I don't just watch every episode, you know?

L J

Based on your reactions to the first few episodes I expected you guys would be more enthusiastic about this one. The Vidiians have a compelling story and fit into the horror category you seem to love. There is great character development throughout. There is well placed comedy. And it’s an episode with a unique premise and believable stakes. I thought it was all very well done and an entertaining hour of TV. The Captain’s private dining room was just the smaller room that Neelix turned into the kitchen, not the whole kitchen and mess hall area. You keep doing the “Mr. Kim” joke… I think referencing the “Mr. Worf, fire” joke. Problem is that Mr. Kim is not the one who would fire… that would be Tuvok. Just saying... unless I’m totally misunderstanding what you’re saying when you make that comment.

L J

Also, I thought the medical side of things in this episode came across so much better than the medical story in Life Support. The problem and the solution the doctor came up with just seemed much more fascinating and believable to me than the story with Bareil, and I cared and felt much more invested here than in the events of Life Support. I just couldn’t get into the story of Bareil making the extreme choices he did and completely throwing away his own life just so he could give Kai Winn a little more advice on discussions with the Cardassians, especially when those discussions just didn’t seem important. The situation Neelix found himself in in this episode along with The Doctor’s medical achievement was much more compelling to me.

River Acheron

I just go by what I learned in Anthropology class, and the fact that science fiction is not modern 2026 American society.

ShazD

Voyager's first genuinely very good episode in my opinion. And a fantastic villain species. Also the Doctor's expression when the Vidiian says the holograph lungs are "primitive" always makes me laugh.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Refuses to kill them to save her crewman, threatens them with "deadly force" if they try this again. This never made sense to me. It still doesn't make sense to me.

River Acheron

Also its perfectly okay to feel uncomfortable! Being uncomfortable is why I am a horror fan. But theres a difference in feeling uncomfortable and judging the character. If Kes or any alien isn't 18 as a character that honestly means nothing morally in the STORY. If aliens today landed and there was an alien that was 10 years old and drinking an alcoholic beverage, i would see ZERO problem with that and I would honestly shun anyone that did. If someone said, "no the drinking age is 21. You shouldn't be drinking that." The shunning person is wrong. No debate. They are wrong. Do I protest to much? Damn RIGHT i do! My protest is about assigning out values or morals to societies outside our system. That's dangerous. We have killed indigenous societies that way with forced Christianity. So yeah? its a big deal. And someone who instills 2026 American values on an outsider is wrong. Thats not even a debate. They are wrong. Sorry. Some tribes have an age of consent at 12 years old because its the age THEY feel is an adult. They are not wrong because its all society based. Or look at communism. There's nothing WRONG with that system for some cultures. Do you see what I am getting at? And this in just on our own planet. So for someone to say: "The Age of 18 makes someone an adult." as a universal truth? Um...no. How does that even make any sense whatsoever in ANY way when even within our own planet, it varies by country. America did not discover some universal secret formula trust me on that one.

BN13

Nobody complained between TOS and the films because the change was an obvious upgrade. You can change whatever you want, but what you change has to actually be better. And the more established something is, the better your change has to be.

BN13

There IS a universal right and wrong. Universal right is unconditional love, and anything that moves in that direction. Universal wrong is anything that works against unconditional love in order to elevate self above others, especially if it's done at the expense of others. The most extreme form of this path is pure narcissism. All of us lie on a spectrum between the two paths, and everyday we all make choices between the two that aligns us more with one than the other. There are lessons to be learned from both sides. Your anthropology teacher means well, but they are not the ultimate authority. If we want to tie this in to the Kes/Neelix thing, the age difference between them has nothing to do with right or wrong. The right or wrong is in the nature of their relationship. Anything that they do from a place of true love for one another is in the right. If however, for example, Neelix was completely taking advantage of Kes for his own benefit at her expense, then that is wrong. And both are true no matter what your culture is, or what that culture's values are. You see it all the time in childhood trauma circles. Just because a certain culture or family normalizes something (take the Ferengi for example) doesn't mean it's not toxic.

L J

There's a difference between killing a defenseless person you have captured and using deadly force to protect your people from attack.

L J

I love those simple, subtle acting moments that are easily missed if you're not paying attention. And Voyager is full of those, especially in season 1. It's one reason I love this season.

River Acheron

We do not even know exactly how Neelix and Kes met. And okay I don't wanna get into Spoilers, but ill be gentle....theres NOTHING to ever indicate Neelix is a creep or a predator. He is a jealous narcissist yes. Maybe only cares about himself. But it's the "shes not an adult" thing that makes me laugh because an "adult" IS an American idea. Not a universal thing

L J

Not dumb at all! Totally honest mistake when you're still getting to know the characters and their roles on the ship. :)

River Acheron

Also you are missingy point. My point is, if a fan says, "that alien isn't 18. Their behavior is wrong." is not even debate worthy. That fan is wrong period. My entire point is, there's nothing magical that happens at age 18. It's a FAKE construct. If a 25 year old male dated a 17 year old alien in some sci-fi show, Its not wrong or creepy because if someone gets offended by that its based on a MAN made construct. Yet there are fans out there that literally think "18 is adult" Why?

River Acheron

I have seen fans get pissy and upset that minors are drinking in a cyberpunk setting. Different culture, different time-period, different everything. These are circumstances where I say that fan is flat out WRONG. Yes. And DAMN right I get offended when people assign their own IDEAS (keyword, ideas) on what other cultures do! I have been under cover in anthropology projects where I pretend to be part of a subculture. (college projects) I am no acolyte. I am trying to grt approval to pretend to be a prisoner in a jail for a few weeks (its hard but not impossible) This is a passion of mine and I tell you things like Age to be an adult is not even CLOSE to being universally accepted even on our own planet. It depends. There's legit no answer because there IS no answer. There are VERY few universals in life, and I hate to be the one to say this, ROMANTIC love is society based and not a universal. This actually has been proven and can be dated to the Middle Ages. There is no such thing as romantic love, biologically. Lust, yes. But even physical attraction is based on cultural aspects and are not universal. Yes I get Da Vinci thought differently with his Golden Ratio and proportions but that's not accurate science.

ShazD

Omg is that what the Mr Kim joke was?! 😅

Loot Narsbaar

The reason Crusher never does a “I’m a doctor not a…” is because after the first few ripoff episodes bombed (Naked Now, Where No One Has Gone Before) there was a directive to not reference the original series in order to set the two apart in hope people would not see TNG as a shitty clone. By the time it was deemed ok to directly reference TOS, TNG *was* Trek there was no need to lean on references.

Loot Narsbaar

Also making constant references to popular things that came before is cringe. Not to say this was cringe but shouldn't you want your show to make its own unique special moments and not lean on stuff from decades ago?

Sir, This is A Quark's.

Michael Westmore is a LEGEND. His Daughter MacKenzie hosted FACE/OFF the competition show on Sy-Fy and its basically Project Runway:Star Trek and he was the Tim Gunn-esk mentor/advisor to the make up artists. It's FORKING awesome!!! Just saying.

Dark Kronis

Neelix here reminds me of Paul Alexander,a man who lived in an iron lung for over 70 years after contracting polio,he was Paralyzed from the neck down, he became an attorney, author, and eventually learning to breathe independently for short periods, in his situation i would have chosen death

SierraNicole

I like the Vidiians as a species in this show. Idk if I'm going to explain this well, but, as a kid, it helped open my mind to what culture was and how it could shape a society in different ways than my own. Like their ship isn't super sophisticated or heavily armored (for example) but their medical technology and knowledge is far beyond what the Federation collectively is capable of because their culture has evolved with the primary objective of confronting a particular medical challenge. Their culture is oriented around medical innovation and development and is probably less concerned with exploration or diplomacy or military strength. I ended up studying Ethics (moral philosophy) in college in large part because of some of the medical episodes of Voyager. I think it's an area of tremendous strength compared to other Trek series. In no small part because of the job Robert Picardo does as the Doctor and the inherent moral new-ness of a holographic sentience in charge. It really makes for some interesting stories. Also, I love the nomenclature introduced here. "Vidiian" is such a Star Trek-sounding alien species name, I can't believe it didn't already exist before this episode and "The Phage" sounds like an organ and tissue-dissolving disease that ravages and consumes entire civilizations. It also sounds icky...which matches the design of the affliction, too. Oh, and once again going to bat for Neelix--Ethan Philips does an EXCELLENT job in this episode. For a character that's as jovial and scrappy as Neelix, seeing him turn (justifiably) cynical and nihilistic without becoming a whole different character, was really cool. Also, I thought the jealousy was totally normal in his situation. It was prompted by the sudden insecurity he felt at suddenly no longer being able to provide, protect, or even just spend time outside of sickbay. He saw notorious playboy walking around freely, being friendly with Kes and it hit him that he can't even offer that bare minimum to her anymore. Kes rightly identified his outburst as fear. And I think that's a totally excusable reaction from him in that moment.

BN13

So to make sure I understand, first you say that there is no such thing as a universal right or wrong, but then you immediately afterward feel very strongly that somebody judging another culture based on their own culture's values is VERY wrong. So which one is it? If there is no right or wrong then you shouldn't be upset about other people judging others because that's just their culture. And in their culture, even if they are just a culture of one, judging others against their own standards is ok, so who are you to challenge their beliefs? "Judging" is just a heads man psychological construct. I'm just playing devil's advocate though. Once people are taught that a duality between right and wrong doesn't exist, they can justify anything because there is no "wrong". However, just as dangerous is not understanding what that duality is, and definitely right and wrong based on societal constructs, religious doctrines, or other harmful beliefs. Again, like you, I don't view age as having anything to do with right or wrong. Based on my experiences, I've concluded that "right" is anything moving in the direction of unconditional love, and "wrong" is anything moving away from it toward a place of self-service at the expense of others. Imposing your own views on another culture for instance; that's self-service at the expense of others. But a romantic relationship where both people truly consent and love each other and want to help each ither grow; that's a form of unconditional love. So is respecting that ither cultures are different, and that certain rules are just societal constructs. Also I should clarify that unconditional love and romantic love are not the same thing. Romantic love CAN be an expression of unconditional love, but unconditional love encompasses many things. Ilinwould say it is our shared house humanity, but it goes beyond humanity as well. It is our shared source, our shared life, iur shared source with everything in the universe. It extends to everything in existence, not just ourselves.

Evan Guthrie

Y'all really need to be more careful with those patron takes.

Kristina Weber

I agree. They took Neelix's lungs, knowing it would kill him. Who cares that they have a horrible disease as far as their crime goes? They are murdering people for their organs to preserve their own lives. If there's no threat of infecting Neelix by taking them back from an infected host, take the lungs back and tough titty for the thieves.

Kristina Weber

Side note: the whole plot is kind of contrived. Really, the Doctor should be able to restore Neelix's lungs somehow without a transplant. I know they handwaved that away, but given Star Trek science from other episodes and movies, it should be possible.

Peter Powis

really enjoying your reactions! voyager has a warm place on my heart! my favourite star trek series!!

Capture The Moment

All I'm going to say is buckle up guys it gets amazing I think it's already amazing but it gets incredible

MertzRocks

Bob Phillips ROCKS bro. Leave Neelix be.

DinkleD

The captains dining room was just that small section where the cooking stuff was, there use to be a wall separating it from the rest of the mess. Kirk had one, every time you saw him dinning with his officers, like in Star Trek VI (i know you don't like that movie but its an example :P ) when he hosts a dinner for the klingons, that is the captains dining room. I am sure the Galaxy Class has one too but we never had a reason to be shown in TNG, and the Defiant was too small to have that Luxary, on DS9 Sisco just used his own quarters lol