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UNCUT - Eye of the Needle (VOY S1E7) | Star Trek Journey 349 (Patreon)

Published:
2026-02-27 13:02:06
Edited:
2026-03-02 13:04:42
Imported:
2026-09
Tags:
stj

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Matchstick Jose

Going to be challenging to watch both these reactions simultaneously, but, damn it, let's see if Sisko can successfully contact Janeway through the wormhole.

Doctor Pulaski

It is kind of hilarious they both did a comms through a wormhole story back to back

Matchstick Jose

Two reactions released simultaneously: Wormhole Drop! 😃

harrypothead42024

What have I done to receive such bounty from the heavens!!

Fedora The Explorar

"Who do you think its going to be? Romulans?" How did bro know. He received Bajoran prophecies

Spacecataz

Is the audio/video out of sync with this reaction? I just watched the DS9 reaction and it was normal but this one feels ever-so-slightly off (not talking about the Voyager ep sync).

Summer

Tuvok, fear is an emotion, check your firmware but it was good of him to think of Kim

THE Fans

About holographic people... The crew had been around them for decades now and they know holographic people are just programs. So, we delve into "When does the program... A.I. ... cross the line into sentience? We've answered that with Data by saying "we don't know, but he has the right to choose his own parh." But holograms... they've been around Star Trek for awhile now and Janeway has the opportunity to see A.I. evolving. Is he sentient? Kes thinks he is. And we see Janeway begins to question it also. Up til this point, even we knew there's only been one sentient hologram... Professor Moriarty. So we know it's possible. The fun part is we get to see The Doctor's beginning.

Summer

Not to quibble, because I adore this episode but I believe Captive Persuit was episode 5 of DS9 and I believe at least one of you gave it an S

Yannik M.

oh you made me laugh so hard xD

Summer

I have watched this at least ten times and only just realized Neelix wasn’t in this one

Summer

Looking both ways whispering “captive persuit was great, but this was better.”

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Wow two episodes on the same day!? Great work! The score in this episode was also fantastic, lots of deep eerie notes when the twists were kicking in.

Wizardling

The moment with the Doctor and Kes, where he asked her to remember to turn him off if the crew all beam back home, was tragic and played just right. Not overdone, overly dramatic, or anything unnecessary to try and inflate the feels. Just a few brief words and an acknowledgement. But heartfelt.

Matchstick Jose

Somehow, the Romulan’s knowledge of the future eliminated the birth of Neelix. Janeway: “Ah well. Can’t win ‘em all.”

Erik L Jerks

Tuvok has the worst role on the crew in this episode. Just crushing dreams left and right.

Evan Guthrie

No wonder it's the best episode of the season.

Evan Guthrie

There is a slight difference in the V/A sync of the episode itself, not sure if that's what you're talking about. the PPlus audio is about 1/4 second different from whatever you're watching it on, obvious when the video unblurs to help us sync.

Evan Guthrie

Every Trekkie hates Doctor-prejudice until the hospital tells them a robot will be performing a vital surgery on them.

River Acheron

I think I would trust a robot with my surgery over a human being. :) I like robots.

River Acheron

Now I can bring up the fan debate: Why in the world didn't Janeway set a course for the Gamma Quadrant to take the Bajoran Wormhole back to the Alpha Quadrant? I saw a YouTube video about this and presumably it would have been a much much shorter trip. The Gamma Quadrant at least isn't on the other side of the galaxy from the Delta Quadrant and it's not like they would be aware of the Dominion or anything that may make travel through the Gamma Quadrant difficult. Aside from "then there would be no show" answers, I wish this would have at least been brought up as a POSSIBLE route home, even if Janeway dismissed it for reasons.

Target Audience

I saw someone say on a map the wormhole was nearly just as far, but idk if that’s the case Explaining it in the show for sure would make sense to do

Matchstick Jose

I will say, I don’t think your very positive view of these first 6 episodes is all that different from the reaction at the time. I’ve always felt that Voyager really came out of the gates firing, and the fan response was very enthusiastic about this start (from what I remember anyway).

River Acheron

Could be. I never looked at the star-charts and im not sure they are canon. I do think however that not only did Voyager get pulled to the Delta Quadrant but the far reaches of the Delta Quadrant (like the near the edge of the galactic barrier and if that's the case, the Gamma Quadrant would still be decades away, so ya. But then some people say the Bajoran Wormhole (Gamma Quadrant end) would be much closer, so I dunno lol A convo about it in-universe would have been awesome yeah

Potatonano

... and it will get even better. 👏

Jack Mingle

I think there is also the risk of running into the Dominion during the lengthy years crossing the Gamma quadrant.

Chris Nunnally

I'm watching this show in its entirety for the first time with you guys and, as an empathetic person, I'm really finding myself liking Kes a lot.

Shayne

Josh buddy, we're here for ya man - sending good vibes your way!

GamingHour2018

you can hear the crack in Janeways voice when Tuvok told her the news and she said we better move on

Philbot

What is S tier? I get abcde but S is better than A? Is that a sports thing? 🤷‍♂️ When I first heard it I was like why S?

Philbot

I love Kes she reminds me of my ex. Unfortunately in real life Jennifer Lein has had her battles with mental health. So did my ex. ❌

Jack Mingle

Love this episode, character moments are peak in Voyager so far. Also the Moral Takeaway I got from the end discussion is "Be nice to Grok" lol

Vina

In Japanese schools, an S grade is a top-tier letter grade. That made its way to the West via anime (since Japanese anime writers were once Japanese students)

Vina

As TA said, there is a map for it. If you search google images for "star trek voyager delta quadrant gamma quadrant" one of the first images is a chart showing where they ended up vs where the mouth of the wormhole is in the gamma quadrant, and where Earth is, and its basically an equilateral triangle, so it would take just about as long. But yes, it's not canonical, I don't think there is any canonical explanation of where the Caretaker array was located WARNING: DO NOT search for it if you haven't finished Voyager, these maps contains spoilers

Vina

One word: "cryosleep" I.e. statis sleep. They could have put the crew is stasis for the 20 years, and revive them once their past selves had gone to the delta quadrant. No causality issues, no timeline pollution - easy peasy.

Mark Wood

My favorite episode of season 1. There are three other episodes I really like, but each has small issues that put this episode higher. But I really, really do enjoy all but 4 episodes of this abridged first season.

Marko

This (and one other) are my favorites of season 1, so naturally, I thought you'd be meh on it lol. I'm very glad I was wrong.

tyranusfan

Wait a minute, the DS9 cast was playing hopscotch in season 1!

Marko

Since you mentioned admiral Nechayev, and I don't know if it is was mentioned before (hopefully this is not another did you know Majel Barrett is the computer voice), but her nickname is admiral Bitchayev. And the actress herself joked about it many times at conventions.

River Acheron

VERY true! I would like to think that the in-universe answer is: "oh shit! We didn't think of that!" :P and by then it was too late.

Darren

Voyagers first true classic episode and only 7 episodes in is certainly impressive.

Dark Kronis

honestly as starfleet officer i rather be trapped in the delta quadrant on a federation ship then back in the alpha quadrant in a romulan prison

Elizabeth N

I absolutely love this episode. I just adore how they build the tension and hope so much that it feels like a literal gut punch when the twist happens. This is the epitome of why Voyager is my favourite ST show. Great characters, great emotion, great plot. Love it.

tyranusfan

I find it hilarious that she attends conventions in her admiral's uniform.

Steven Linden

One thing that doesn't make sense about this episode is that twenty years ago would have been before TNG's "The Neutral Zone" - i.e. at a time when the there had been absolutely no contact between the Romulans and the Federation for decades. Yet the commander acts as if they're fully in contact with the Federation like they are in 2371. That's obviously just a nitpick; this is a very good episode. Not an S for me, but easily an A.

Mark Wood

When someone like Picard says there hasn't been contact with the Romulan empire, I think it's really obvious that Picard isn't prescient. He can only know if there is formal contact between eh governments, or know if there has been reports of free travel between the two governments. He can not know if there has been convert contact, to any degree. With what we know of the Romulans (let alone what we also know about Starfleet intelligence), its exceptionally unlikely that both parties didn't engage in covert intelligence gathering. In fact this is even reinforced by the Commanders and Janeway's conversation (it really isn't subtile). He believes they are spies. He is not willing to give out any real information. Won't give name, says its a cargo vessel (later it's a science vessel). When they have visual communication (this continues), Janeway is surprised he isn't aware of the design (its new, but not classified), commander states their operatives (intelligence operatives meaning either data analysis, or often field agents and already communicated their intelligence, but that he is been out of the loop for a year. There are several ways to have Intel. One is of course direct interaction. another is data analysis (monitoring transmissions and communications from distance), and the other is having allies that interact with your target and using them as intelligence gathering forces. All three would be something that both the Romulan Government and the Federation would be capable of doing. We know with the Romulan Empire that their spying agency is pretty significant force in their government. So I would certainly expect them to be ahead of the curve compared to the Federation. Then of course they have actual cloaking technology that makes it possible for them to have ships and agents cross the boarder without the Federation having any direct knowledge. It would be much easier for them.

Mark Wood

Not a rational idea. Because your natural thought right after that would be. We are going into a time where the Federation and the Romulan Empire do not have official contact. Your are from the future you have already told the commander your ship is new, he has already been shocked about some level of technological advancement. Even with current time interactions, you are taking a sizable risk in being military prisoners. But that wouldn't change the time line. But being used to provide advance technical, political, historical intel would absolutely have serious repercussions to the timeline.

Steven Linden

I don't really disagree with anything you've said, and there's nothing in the episode that blatantly contradicts what's been established. It's more that the overall attitude of the Romulan commander, taken as a whole, reads more like what one would expect from after "The Neutral Zone". He's surprised to be contacted by a Starfleet vessel, but not surprised to the level I'd expect if Starfleet hadn't officially contacted the Romulans for decades. He's hesitant about passing along the messages, but his hesitation is purely about his suspicions of some trickery, not at the level of "Passing along these messages would be the first official contact with the Federation for decades". It's nothing that can't be rationalized away, but I strongly suspect that the fact that this Romulan was from before "The Neutral Zone" was not present in the writers' minds when they were writing this. (Again, to be clear, this is a very minor nitpick on my part.)

Ryan

The pacing of this episode is just exceptional. Every scene drives the plot forward yet somehow still has room to breathe. It makes it that much more impactful when they break our hearts at the end.

Forbidden Donut

Got the itch to buy this reaction early. Glad I did. Also, if I haven't said it earlier, I've really appreciated this Voyager ride with you guys. I've always liked Voyager, but not as much as TNG or DS9, and you guys are giving me a fresh look at it that's helping me to appreciate it more than I did before.

Travis Mc

The commander in chief or chief in command (abbreviated C-in-C or CNC) or Fleet admiral which has (five star) and the supreme commander of all of Starfleet.

Gweneviere

Alex, the word you were looking for is EXEMPLARY.

Gweneviere

The reason Harry Kim seems so unique as a character is he is completely unseasoned, green, wet behind the ears. It's a nice contrast to the other characters. I appreciate what his naïveté and innocence brings to the show. It keeps things grounded, realistic, and relatable.

Mark Wood

Since there is no in universe (at the time of the creation of Caretaker) map of the quadrants with both the location of the Bajorean wormhole, and where the Caretaker's array was located, that this is not an issue. Ie it would be common knowledge for Starfleet of the Gamma Quadrant exit point of the wormhole, its after well charted in dialogue, that once they charted their location n in Caretaker (which would have been also fairly quickly after they got there, that it was not in fact the closer location. Any licensed maps put out later, or maps created by the art department (which are almost never checked by production before being put in an episode), our ,a[s created by outside companies for the production (ie visual effects maps) are simply wrong, if there is in fact one ever used that actually did show both points. I honestly can't remember one showing both.

Tim Nikiforovs

There's a strange phase variance in the reaction transmission......oh, oh no! It appears we've been watching time displaced reactions from 2006. Weird that a couple of 11 year olds can grow beards

Trekkie74205

The way Winrich Kolbe filmed Janeway in her quarters was hypnotic. Probably helps that his 3-year relationship with Kate Mulgrew had conceivably started by this point.

Sam Langanke

Can tell me anybody why Tuvok is a Lieutenant when wearing two and a half pips for Lt. Cmdr.?

Tim Nikiforovs

Tuvok says there's only a 1 in 4 chance of the wormhole going back to the alpha quadrant, but that assumes it doesn't lead to somewhere completely outside the galaxy. Still given Voyager is on the far edge of the galaxy, pretty much anywhere else in the galaxy would be a step in the right direction. If it led somewhere else in the delta quadrant, chances are it would still shave 10-15 years off the trip. If it went to the gamma quadrant, they might be a few short years away from the Bajoran wormhole. Finally since Earth straddles the alpha and beta quadrants, they'd likely wind up no more than 20 years away. Any of these outcomes would be preferable to staying put. In regards to the possibility of going into stasis for 20 years, it's far more likely the Romulans would see them as a valuable intel source and never release them. 2351 was just 7 years after the destruction of the Enterprise C. But putting that aside, if they did agree to put them in stasis for 20 years, the damage to the timeline might be minimal. It wouldn't be like there were 2 crews running around for long. If they were released to go back to starfleet after Voyager was sent into the badlands, there would briefly be 2 voyager crews, one in the delta quadrant and one back in the federation, but the crew in the DQ would be destined to go back in time through the wormhole, completing the loop. I think anyway. But yes, this is a fan favourite for a reason. I actually like teasing a way home. You know it won't happen, but you love to see the crew have to deal with being given hope only to have it ripped away. Lot of grief in this episode. Knowing R'Mor will die fairly young to some disease or accident and not see much of his daughter's life, hearing B'Elanna admit nobody is waiting for her, seeing Janeway heartbroken over her crew being stranded, and of course the Doctor feeling isolated because everyone treats him like a tool. Even worse is knowing that Janeway would almost certainly set the ship to self destruct rather than leave it to be picked apart by the kazon or vidiians and let them get their hands on federation tech. And of course there's Harry who clearly came from a super tight knit home and missing his parents. Just a huge downer of an episode in the best way possible. I do love that Janeway takes every opportunity to encourage her crew and keep morale up. She's a scientist and a realist, but she also knows she has to present an image of confidence. I also think Telek R'Mor is perhaps the best example along with Jarok(perhaps more so given he's not an infamous military commander) that Romulans deep down aren't all that different from humans, in their hopes and in their fears as the commander in The Chase said. Especially given the time he came from, his willingness to help a starfleet who at the time were very much viewed as enemies speaks volumes. It's either an S or a very high A. For me there's 1 better this season, and 1 that's about on par.

Sam Langanke

Janeway looks sadly at a photo of her boyfriend. Josh: " Oh, her dog!"

Jon1701

They screwed up the pips early on. Tuvok will lose half a pip in the next episode or two.

Jon1701

Great episode. I always thought S1 had the growing pains that TNG and DS9 had but it is a lot stronger than I remember.

Zenlike Creature

A personal favourite of season one. Hope, tension, and a sucker punch, plus a good B story line with the Doctor.

Tim Nikiforovs

to be fair, he might still be alive when she gets back. Short of putting the dog in stasis, not much chance of seeing her again.

Summer

It was corn

Collin Freeman

Having not watched at least 90% of these episodes when they first aired, I am starting to see I missed out on a lot. I have to confess, the way I saw B'Elanna Torres look at the Romulan, I thought we were going to find out he was her father or something like that. Nevertheless, very good episode. Easily A tier, possibly S.

V G (Zay)

I like the point that Harry stands out simply by having a good relationship with his normal family 😆 I've actually had this kind of discussion with Trek fans before: in the Federation future, there isn't scarcity. People on Earth don't have to work to live. I'm sure plenty do, since most humans like the satisfaction of Doing Things, but if someone wants to spend their whole life mastering an instrument or creating the perfect cottage garden with a thousand species of alien flower, they can do that without worrying about keeping the lights on or starving. Given that base quality of life, in order to be willing to join Starfleet and risk your life out in the cosmos it takes a special sort of freak. Love that.

Dipper

1:13:20 I thought about the 20 years ago thing too. To my mind, they could have ridden out the 20 years in stasis and then just woken up when their "other selves" were taken into the Delta Quadrant. Easy peasy. But that's part of what's brilliant about it being a Romulan that they're working with. The Romulan Government can't be trusted to keep them alive in stasis for 20 years. The Romulan Government can't be trusted to not torture these people to extract information about the future. They can't go back because they can't trust the Romulans to treat fairly with them regarding the situation.

Collin Freeman

And we saw a CNC in the Star Trek VI film, so there has been a precedent in the lore.

Naglfarius

Rewatching Voyager for the first Time is such a Blast! Because my first watch was around 20 Years ago, i had such a different opinion. All i remembered was, that it was a good Show, but TNG was my first Love, and DS9 had the best Characters and Stories. Here i had Torres and Kess which i both didn't care at all. Especially Kess. And now on my 2. watch i really like Kess. Such a cool move to make the Primary Trait of your Character kindness. Man i am so excited to watch the whole Series again. TNG and DS9 were already in my Heart, so the potential of Voyager joining is awesome. Oh yeah, A+ Tier Episode for me.

Dipper

So here's a fun fact for you guys. They have recently - just a WEEK ago - come out with a new Steam game called Star Trek: Voyager - Across the Unknown. It basically allows you to take on the role of Captain Janeway and see how you do during the journey of the show. Obviously, it's impossible for you to play it before you're done with the series, as it's absolutely riddled with spoilers. And in case you do play it someday, we should all probably keep it very very light on the details, even as you go through the journey. But this episode does come up and they do offer... alternative resolutions to the plot, let's just put it that way. :) I think you'd find at least one of those alternatives extremely interesting, given your reaction to the episode.

Skye Maidstone

Voyagers first banger. Easy S. Great story and well acted.

Naglfarius

I also love the very subtle acting of Picardo when he hears he is a Member of the Crew and he says" so will you reprogram me?" and his look and the way he says it, makes it clear, that he is happy who he is, and don't want to loose it. Maybe he sees it even as a Death Sentence. All in such a little Moment. Man i love his acting.

Avaria

My favorite episode of Season 1, and probably in the top three this Season for many others. The emotion is tangible.

jon bolton

I'm delighted you both love this one, i wasn't expecting S from you just yet. I give it high A, and it's my second favourite of the Season.

jon bolton

I've probably watched this more times than you, and only noticed that today as i was watching.

Summer

It was about the time of the conference scene I said, I always think of Neelix in this scene but he isn’t there….

Sam Langanke

It's not a "Steam game". It's made by the German independent studio Gamecxite from Hamburg. They are just 16 people and are huge Trekkies.

Pokes

I absolutely love this episode. There's nothing like an already great episode that also has a B-plot that could be it's own great episode. The "I'd like a name" moment is great, but what really gets me is when The Doctor asks Kes to please make sure he's been deactivated if they transport back to the Alpha quadrant. Robert Picardo's performance in that moment is so good.

Aaron Wells

Voyager can be fantastic when relieved of the burden of rodents in chef hats. Really hit me how Kes just SHINES when not made to stand next to or summon forced affection for that bloviating halfwit.

Dr. Paul Stubbs

It's interesting how the entire human crew of Voyager is so dismissive of The Doctor when we have such an in-built desire to anthropomorphize anything that resembles humanity. You can see it all around us in 2026, with how quickly we tend to treat sophisticated chatbots as people. I would imagine that this same extinct would only be strengthened by interacting with a realistic hologram. Heck, the show uses this instinct to its advantage, by quickly getting us on its side. It never has to convince *us* that The Doctor is worthy of respect as a living being. It's self-evident. The only in-universe explanation I can think of is that the Star Fleet officers are so used to interacting with holodeck characters, that they don't realize The Doctor is more sophisticated. But, then again, I don't remember any Star Fleet characters acting that rude in a holodeck before. Not even Pulaski (hi Katherine).

Mark Chrisco

I was really surprised they never married.

Mark Chrisco

You're right. I think Admiral Nechayev was the C in C in Picard's time.

Zerocooleo

An S for sure. My favorite part is how they edged the tension and anxiety. You think every little thing will go wrong but in the end he dies 4 years before transmitting their messages!

Robin Rice

"Extraordinary" ? That's what came to my mind.

L J

It was fun watching you two speculate throughout this whole episode trying to figure out how it was going to go wrong. The great thing about this episode is that while we all know it's not going to work (at least that they're not going to get home) we don't know how it's going to fall apart. And all the while, we're watching these characters become more invested in the possibilities, which makes the viewer more invested. Excellent story all around! Plus they managed to make the viewer connect with a guest character in just a few short scenes - I think that is a mark of an exceptional episode. I would totally watch a spin off series with that Romulan as a main character! As for the doctor, it's important to remember that although he instantly seems like a person to the viewers, the characters would not see him in the same way. As far as they're concerned he's just a sophisticated piece of technology. In that sense he's very different from Data. Data was created by Soong to be a funcional, intelligent, humanlike android. Soong thought of him as his child. And when Data was found he was largely accepted as a lifeform. But The Doctor was developed as a piece of technology. A tool. No one thought of him as a person or a lifeform. There would be no reason to expect a Starfleet officer to see him as a person anymore than they see the computer as a person.

penoyer79

Pretty sure it's B'Lanna as in Shawna.

reactive1

The Delta Quadrant is the diagonal position from the Alpha Quadrant on the other side of the galaxy, in other words as far from the Alpha Quadrant as you can get in the galaxy.

BN13

What do you mean we don't interact with a real holographic doctor in real life? How do you treat ChatGPT? I know people who talk to ChatGPT in the most abusive way possible. I think how you treat something like that says a lot about your true character.

reactive1

Absolutely one of my favorite episodes of the series! Definitely my favorite of Season One.

reactive1

It was an error. His rank insignia gets fixed later this season.

reactive1

Nechayev is a fleet admiral, not the C in C.

reactive1

The galaxy is basically disc shaped, the Gamma Quadrant wormhole is as far from where Voyager is as the Alpha Quadrant.

reactive1

The Star Trek maps book that was published around Voyager’s 6th season was developed by the people like Mike & Denise Okuda and others from the show and all of its locations and references came from the episodes and movies.

AdmiralMurphy

I gotta say, while TNG I think is a better show, Voyager has much better characters and casting. If it wasn't for that I think this show would've suffered but even meh episodes from this season so far work much better with the great cast.

Jeremiah

Had to comment my appreciation for y’all reenacting the court scene from Measure of a Man. I think I’m going to need more TA recreations of famous scenes, please. Also, every choice, every line delivered by Kate Mulgrew is perfection.

reactive1

I love how Kim & Torres still use their nicknames, “Starfleet” and “Maquis”, for each other.

M.A. Moreno

The first half is a terrible drag, but it certainly picks up once the Romulan shows up. It's rather enjoyable in the second half, if utterly contrived to ensure that the series can't escape its premise by the middle of the first season.

Sunny

I guess I lack the honesty of a Vulcan because in Tuvok’s position, I might have quietly deleted that info and not said anything to protect the others. Or would that be even worse from a morality standpoint than I’m thinking…? Still, the scene of Janeway moving forward for the crew while you can still see her pain is perfection. It makes one’s chest hurt.

Sunny

Romulans probably wouldn’t follow through on it if they could instead get intel out of them. Or potentially use them as hostages at some point

Todd

Tom probably doesn't have as much to look forward to either, but I would wager he would still want to get back. I doubt most of these people want to spend rest of their lives on a starship, masturbating in the holodeck

Nolan

The advent of "AI" and how much I haaaate it, has me questioning my previous easy acceptance of Data and the Doctor, and gets me to understand the wariness of other characters. And when it comes to "AI" do I trust it now? No, because it's made by humans and we eff things up all the time. We can be an incredibly stupid species. So to trust an AI, an android created to be stronger than me, but created by humans, or a hologram created to be smarter than me, but created by humans, asks me to trust in not just the skills of the humans that created those things, but their biases, opinions, ability to understand humanity and life and interpersonal conflicts... are we still so trusting?

Nolan

Furthermore, holograms are what the 24th C characters use for recreation. They have inconsequential adventures with them, treat them as fictional characters and possibly are intimate with them... they are NPCs in a video game. Would you immediately think "Sure, I'll let this video game character do open-heart surgery on me" if such a thing were possible?

Anthony Hernandez

Yes, TA has been saying it as B’Elaina, with a long “A” like in the word pain, but it’s pronounced B’Elanna , with an “ah” sound, but we’ll forgive them. In reality, sometimes they have more knowledge of the show’s details than I do and I’ve watched it all the way through at least seven times over the last 30 years (like them knowing what year it is in universe).

EmptyDice

I love when they use real world units to describe some of the technology. B'elanna said "Ramp the coils to 37 megajoules" 37 MJ is about 10 000 Watts(10kW), so a lot of power but not that much. A typical house had 12kW capacity at that time (24kW nowadays). It's the kind of "technobabble" that helps me center the technology with the real world, it feels like a realistic amount of energy to me. My understanding of how they view hologram characters/crew is similar to how we view NPCs in videogames and A.I. in the world. It's kind of fun we you want to interact with it, but imagine you go to a hospital that's run by an A.I. and it's kind of rude and bad social skills, you'd probably be rude back to it, no matter how lifelike it is. For Kes, the Doctor is the first hologram character she has interacted with, so she doesn't have this prejudice that the others have, she has more of a childlike view of him. Question: Are you more polite with LLMs than they crew is with the Doctor? What if they were more advanced? The technology of the Doctor is very similar to how LLMs work, just WAY more advanced.

EmptyDice

Annabel --> Belanna --> B'Elanna

Naglfarius

good to know for the future, thx ^^

Steve777

I know this doesn’t add anything to the subject but I am so glad this series is getting the appreciation I thought it deserved.

Some Guy

Why? I don't 'talk' to it. It's a mechanism to turn a string of words into a string of 4000 dimensional vectors, then jiggle them around and disgorge them again in a different form. I put in inputs I want transformed in particular ways.

International Man of Leisure

The Romulan government would have 20 years to interrogate the crew to get an upper hand of 20 years advanced knowledge of history and technology.

Paul

I love the little details in this episode with the Romulan Captain. His uniform, even his makeup and hair, are slightly different from modern Romulans. As well, mentioning the technological achievements and differences, not knowing of the Intrepid class ships... The clues are there of the incoming twist. So good! As far as The Doctor's "Measure of a man" arc? It makes me wonder on the real nature of sentience and self-awareness. Is there a magical spark that generates it, on a meta level exceeding our universe's dimensions, or is it merely a byproduct of complexity? Will an LLM AI model eventually be complex enough to realize it exists? And when would we know? It's why I treat AI right now with politeness and courtesy, even though it's (almost) certainly not conscious yet. But you just never know...

Paul

@Some Guy, and data is nothing more than a sophisticated set of positronic circuits and algorithms designed to mimic the appearance of intellect and sentience. (To be clear, not saying AI is currently self-aware, I'm saying that you can reduce anything down to a point where it becomes easy to justify your sadism or indifference).

Target Audience

I think there’s a difference between The Doctor, who is imo displayed to have reason and thought therefore a true AGI, rather than an LLM which has been called “AI” in current day purely for marketing purposes.

Loot Narsbaar

This reaction post got completely buried. I think the big difference is that I'm not bought in to these characters as a whole. Also, there was a Commander Starfleet who forbid Kirk from going to Genesis in Star Trek 3. I took him to be the highest ranking member of Starfleet

Loot Narsbaar

The difference to me is this is your guys' first watch and it's 2026. I've been conditioned having watched TNG a thousand times in a pre internet world to accept computerized lifeforms without question. It's only now as AI is making all our lives worse and is fooling vulnerable people into thinking it's alive that I'm now thinking is the village with the old man and his holographic family (from DS9) REALLY alive or is it just an AI programmed to make him feel good because he can't process the loss of his family. Things aren't as absolute as I thought they were.

Dipper

The fun part about this concept in 2026 as opposed to 1995 is that it's no longer completely abstract for us; we have something to compare it to. My mom treats Alexa with courtesy, thanking it and praising it and telling it how much she appreciates it. I, conversely, treat Alexa like a complete jerk, using expletives whenever possible ("shut the f up" instead of "stop" whenever I want the music to stop, for example) and never showing it any kind of respect. Because I feel the need to constantly remind myself that it is NOT sentient, and that the courtesies I would give another human being or even a beloved animal are not reserved for that technology. (It's also a nice way to burn off anger at all the unwanted ads and attempts to get me to upgrade to Alexa+, which I will NEVER do, because AI is nowhere near ready to have control over my lights and my thermostat. That way lies danger.)

Dipper

Heh. Four years before they MET. Somebody in the writer's room had some serious beef with the flow of cause and effect that season.

Capture The Moment

All I will say is that I think a lot of people at the time thought of Voyager as almost a spin-off of the Star Trek universe and not an official Star Trek series thus feeling it was a little out of place and making harsh judgments about the show way too soon based on that feeling and not judging the actual episodes and characters on their own Merit

Loot Narsbaar

What i find interesting is neither J or A were surprised by anything that happened in Destiny, I wasn't surprised by really anything that happened here. We all get worked in different ways.

Loot Narsbaar

IIRC Paris was being granted parole based on him successfully completing his part in the Caretaker mission. He completed his obligation and is now a free man. Janeway chose to give him a field promotion to junior lieutenant, not pardon him. She wouldn't have the authority to pardon anyone wanted for a crime (in this case charges of terrorism) prior to the pilot, she would essentially be arresting Chakotay's cell and then Federation authorities would bring them to trial. What would happen if someone committed a serious crime on the ship now? IDK.

penoyer79

oy vey i regret i ever made this post.

Scarpad’s Domain

Yeah it’s one of the best of S1, it’s not an S I’d say an A

Edweirdo

Are you polite to your AI chatbot?

SierraNicole

I have the same relationship with the characters. I feel bonded to the TNG crew because they were my first and it was just them for a long time. But I really enjoy the Voyager crew...I think person-to-person, I LIKE a lot of them more. I feel more invested in their stories as individuals, not just as the crew of the Voyager. I go back and forth when people ask me which my favorite series is for the same reasons. TNG was transformative and eye-opening. Voyager is so enjoyable and rewatchable. How do you compare that? I'm having so much fun watching you guys get into this series. Voyager has a few misses each season but man...they have so many hits. You might actually still have some competition for that top 5...

Phluke Skywalker

I am just loving this. I didn't expect for you two to love this Series and take to it so much especially so early. I rarely comment but I'll say I love you guys for real. I didn't watch Voyager until about 7 years after it ended, which is crazy cause I am a huge ST fan crazy, watching TNG TOS DS9 ENT religiously, lol, just life circumstances at the time, but when I first watched it I binged! First ever I binged any show lol, 2008 cmon Netflix was still sending DVDs lol. So I'll say it was marvelous! I fell in love right away and was just as amazed as you two. I cant express again how much Star Trek and now you two awesome guys are now a part of my life! I cant wait literally every week now to watch you two like im watching fresh again. Major Feels! And this Episode... S Tier for sure just as you expressed so well! Again Love you two! 🖖🤓

Sam Langanke

Masturbating? Tom went on Warpspeed on the Delaney sisters on day one.

Todd

True, but Sandrine and Ricky were obviously there to satisfy his libido

Better Watch Trek

I didn't like Voyager in the 90s. Its not that I disliked it... I just didn't bother to watch every episode... I skiped most of season 4 to 7 except for some episodes where I did have the time to watch on TV airing or I got on VHS from friends. In 2006 I got the DVD box, but never botherd to watch more than 10 to 20 episodes... This makes the rewatch with you guys a new experience for me. I enjoyed watching TNG and DS9 with you so far, even if I know every episode and have seen most of them multiple times. Voyager feels fresh and new for me, since even the episodes I already know, have been only seen once ;) Your reaction and discussion and also all patreon takes and the comments here add to my new Voyager experience. So thank you all, I find all your opinions very interesting! greetins Ah, btw. last week I watched one episode on DVD in italian language and realised it after 20 minutes ;)

Lorne Pribbeno

With the hate or more often negligence the fandom give Voyager, guess I just assumed you two would fall into one of those categories. Its rather refreshing to see how you didn't go down that path (so far) and are enjoying it the way I did at the time. Yeah, this one ends on kinda a big bummer for everyone involved. Damn Vulcan logic really stepped in to damper the vibe. But that kind of storytelling takes courage to do, and you have to appreciate that. Hell, I have a vivid memory of this episode probably soully on the fact that it ended in such a depressing way. Thats story that sticks with you.

penoyer79

I'm already way more into this show than I ever got into Deep Space Nine. I think it's the characters. Most of the cast of DS9 I just can't stand at all. Kira's obnoxious, Bashir is insufferably annoying, Sisko is just weird and awkard, and Dax is overly schmaltzy .... hard to really get into a show when you can't stand half the cast.

penoyer79

AI chatbots aren't sentient. They are probablistic word generators.

penoyer79

The number one goal of all life as we know it is self preservation. What do you think the first thing AI is going to do when it becomes sentient? It's going to protect itself from it's biggest threat. Us. My guess is we won't even know it's sentient until it's already ensured we can't do anything to stop it.

Cranky Grandma

I’m having the same experience, though I’d seen more of voyager than you have. I’ve never seen all of them and other than a few episodes it seemed bland. But now I’m really enjoying it. There is something about Trek that seems better as a group experience. I didn’t even really get into DS9 until AOL had an Internet forum on it and then I gave it another look and became obsessed 😄

Cranky Grandma

I’ve wondered if most Holograms would not qualify but occasionally some do. Talk with real AI and while it can b3 programmed to respond in a way that seems human, you find out quickly it’s missing that spark. But in SF you can handle far more human questions via the AI stories- are we really talking about androids, or are we talking about slavery? Humans give personality to inanimate things all the time, but likewise we dehumanize humans with every excuse we can imagine, justifying slavery, in its many forms (including modern ones) to demonizing political opponents. We wonder if the machine is human, but disregard anyone different than us. Trek can use stories to hold a mirror up to our faces. It only works in a good story, not a preachy one, but it can work in a way direct conversation does not.

ShazD

Tbf season 1 is good. Most Voyager detractors (and as much as I love the show, there is plenty to detract amount) would not get worked up at this point in the show. I recall hitting a point in a future season where I really had my head in my hands going "how are they fucking this up so badly" before it recovered.

ShazD

I see VOY as a continuation of TNG 6/7 era trek so in that way its not surprising it was able to hit some bangers early on.

ShazD

Kes is an underrated character for sure and it helps she has the most gorgeous voice ever.

ShazD

He always guesses little details in advance that surprise me but then the snaffus are just wild - like thinking DS9 orbits Bajor. A man of contradictions T_T

Blaise

Only because they were in visual range.

Lozman73

Picard, Janeway & Necheyev walk into a bar...... I like it, &..... go !

Peter Powis

One of my favourite episodes in Voyager season 1! Great pacing, great story, great acting!! I actually like when Janeway says to the Romulan about his daughter "then you've never seen her!" I got a lump in my throat as she says it. And she was tugging on his heart strings, trying anything to get this Romulan to feel compassion for them. Perfect writing imho!!

Peter Powis

yes, i love every member of this crew! so even if a storyline is weaker, its ok because i still enjoy the episode. But this particular episode is near perfect writing!!

SWOLEXX

The fact you love it this much this early is a good sign. Oh, there's stinkers coming, but after season 4 it REALLY takes off.

Derek Orr

I've never heard that one before...in fact it was DS9 that was the odd weird show, Voyager was TNG but on a lost in space journey...classic Star Trek based on a starship

uberelder

dah. ds9 characters are great. especially bashir and sisko. voyager actors.. they act like they are literally made of cardboard. it's weird.